Captain Marvel
It's a good film lots of fun some nice set pieces and characters. It's not the best film in the MCU but it is far from the worst.
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Captain Marvel
It's a good film lots of fun some nice set pieces and characters. It's not the best film in the MCU but it is far from the worst.
[QUOTE=Nick Danger;1877036]
Neverland was well-named, it was a paradise for children. But it was not there as a lure for children to victimize, it was there for Michael. He was the child. He was A child. That was the overriding characteristic of his unique disease - he'd lost his childhood, he wanted it back, and he could afford to buy it back.
--No, this is absolute rubbish. Michael Jackson was not a child, he was a middle aged man pretending to be a child so that he could lure the boys in on the ruse they were the same -its called grooming for a reason. This was a mature man who negotiated contracts on recordings and appearances, who devised stage shows, who had access to mature adults in his home, through his lawyers and his family, with whom he shared a childhood. Most of his eccentricities were an act devised to satisfy his selfish needs at the expense of anyone who got in his way. You've been duped.
Try putting yourself in Michael's position, Stavros. It isn't easy to do - it's a hard position to imagine oneself in. Michael was more than just a celebrity, he was a celebrity OTHER celebrities wanted to meet. Kings, queens, and presidents hosted Michael. It would not be an exaggeration to say he was the biggest star, from any genre of art, of the 20th century.
--Elvis and the Beatles were bigger than Jackson, and I seem to recall at one time Presidents and Royalty wanted to be seen with the Spice Girls, and were. Pop stars are flavour of the month because pop music is ephemeral trash. The Jackson Five met Queen Elizabeth II in 1977 after a concert, and Jackson met dim-as-a-plank Princess Diana, but numerous letters to the Queen begging and begging to be given an honorary Knightood were ignored, a case of vanity being dismissed by reality. There is no need to make excuses for the man who was only called 'the King of Pop' because Jackson insisted this ridiculous title be inserted into his publicity material -wasn't Elvis 'the King'?
And he'd been this GOD his entire life - from earliest childhood; literally from kindergarten. You think this guy had any chance of growing up to be just a normal guy? No fucking way. He had no frame of reference on any other way of life than being the undisputed master of the universe. Was that the life he chose for himself? I don't know, he was 5. Did he volunteer for a lifetime of unimaginable fame at the age of 5? Did he "consent" to it? I don't think so. I think his father chose it for him.
--We have been told Jackson was abused as a child, not the sort of things that happens to Gods. He was just a man, that he chose to speak in a falsetto voice, engage in relentless surgery to change his appearance, and seduce young boys to satisfy his carnal lust is the baggage that attends his professional career as an entertainer. No excuses, please.
[QUOTE=Stavros;1877135]Pretty harsh, and, might I say, pedestrian assessment of a man no one has ever really understood. Some psychologists agree he suffered from an erotic identity disorder known as autopedophilia, in which the individual wishes to become the object of his desire - in Michael's case, a young boy. Thing is, there are only a few other cases of this and it is an unstudied illness. - https://www.science20.com/j_michael_...disorder-55152Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Danger
Point? Even world-class psychologists don't understand what the fuck happened to Michael Jackson to turn him into Wacko Jacko, but they do know it was mental illness. You've appointed yourself, Stavros, to diagnose Michael as a canny predator from quite a distance away from the scene. Can't argue with such an adamantly unqualified appeal to authority.
Also, neither Elvis or the Beatles were as big as Michael Jackson, who had the distinct advantage of experiencing his career zenith during the MTV era, thereby becoming the most-recognized celebrity on a planet with twice as many people on it as lived during Elvis' heyday. Michael's music cut across all barriers, musical, racial, and political. And if he wanted a knighthood from Queen Elizabeth and couldn't get it, it probably had a lot to do with the fact that he's an American, or black, or maybe the Queen prefers smooth jazz.
There's simply no question that more people on planet Earth could tell you who Michael Jackson is than who Elvis Presley is, or who could name even one of the Beatles (there were 4 of them, you know). So no, you're just wrong about that, Stavros, Michael Jackson is quite possibly STILL the most famous person on the planet.
This. Caveat being that the allegations are actually true. You never see this level of defence given to "normal" paedophiles. Then "it's lock em up and throw away the key", or "bring back hanging". Super-stardom doesn't bring immunity...Quote:
Originally Posted by Stavros
No, but you know what does bring immunity, Laphroaig? Death.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laphroaig
I'll tell you right now that I believe every bit of the testimony about Michael's sexual abuse. I believe the ones who say he did it, but furthermore, I believe the ones who say he didn't, including Macaualy Culkin. I don't think it was ever his initial plan to abuse these kids, it seems like it really did just start out as friendship. And I think that with some of these boys, the childlike friendship never did develop to the level that Michael couldn't control his impulses. With some of them it did. If you've seen the movie, then you know that with all these boys, if you take away the sexual abuse, there is also a real playmate friendship happening.
Also, Michael never harmed any of them. The guy was a gazillionaire, he could have quite easily had them all whacked and buried in the desert, and never have to face these allegations. So he was no sociopath.
I realize I'm defending him. I don't mind, though, I do think he's a special case that should be given special consideration. Obviously others disagree.
Talk about low expectations. A pedophile getting credit for the children he didn't molest? Getting credit for not killing the children he did? Come on Nick. He did awful things, which you acknowledge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Danger
Death may put someone beyond physical punishment for their actions, but it didn't for example prevent Jimmy Saville's crimes from being exposed. Did he deserve special consideration for all the charity work he did over the years?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Danger
You may believe (some of) the allegations against Jackson, but if there's one thing in all this that I find even more disturbing than Jackson's (alleged) crimes, it's many of his fans utter inability to even conceive that he could possibly do anything wrong. I witnessed this first hand during the in 2004-5 trial. They are as fanatical as any ISIS member.
I'm not keeping score, Bronco. All I'm saying by that is that if you believe the stories from the kids who say there was the child-like friendship but no sexual abuse, then it implies Michael wasn't motivated by the prospect of eventually abusing the boys, but instead by some different compulsion, which in his case, I think, is pretty obviously that he wanted to be a young boy forever.Quote:
Originally Posted by broncofan
Michael wasn't "grooming" these children for abuse, he really did want a friend to play with. I mean if you listen to Stavros, Michael planned his entire life around putting himself into a position to abuse children. It wasn't that predatory, there were other problems with Michael's mental health that pushed him to develop these friendships with young boys. Sometimes the friendships developed into sexual abuse, based on Michael's mental illness, which as I mentioned before, some psychologists believe is a rare disorder called autopedophilia. But sometimes, it remained just a friendship.
To be altogether totally frank, I'm a bit surprised that this is suddenly such a big issue. I have always believed Michael was a pedophile. And a very sick person. I thought everyone knew that. But I guess some people just haven't been paying very close attention to the constantly-developing Michael Jackson story for the last, uh, 50 years?
Michael is greatly beloved, Laph. He was a real charmer. Always smiling and loving, voice like spun silk, moves like a cat, child-like enthusiasm, God-given talent - what's not to like? Oh yeah, he was a pedophile - almost forgot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laphroaig
Personally I can't stand his music, find his squeaky voice incredibly irritating and could never understand his appeal.:shrug I've held that opinion long before any untoward allegations were made against him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Danger
I get that many people liked and enjoyed his music. I don't get the fanaticism, undying loyalty and refusal to accept that he may have done something wrong, that surrounds him.