For the Brits: When will BREXIT referendum happen ?

Article 50 is the playbook for leaving EU but it doesn't say what conditions have to be met to complete the exit. It gives a two year deadline for EU and the leaving party to negotiate new agreements. What happens if there's no deal after two years? No one knows.

The clock doesn't start until Brussels is officially notified by the government of Great Britain that it is invoking Article 50. When will that happen? No one knows.

Can the new PM choose to ignore the referendum and not trigger Article 50.
No one knows.

hope I've answered your question.

In part. It's the "No one knows" part that I'm still unsure about :) Thanks.

To respond to posts above, the simple fact is that no EU member state has invoked Article 50 before so in fact nobody knows how it works. Prior to the Lisbon Treaty of 2007 there was no formal mechanism for withdrawal, which had happened twice. Algeria was part of France when the Community was created in the 1950s but left the Common Market when it became independent in 1962. Greenland as part of Denmark actually voted against joining the EU in 1973 but was too small to affect the overall vote, after independence in 1979 an argument over fishing rights strained relations and after a referendum in 1985 Greenland left the EU.

In the UK, the legal position is that we became members of the European Economic Community through the European Communities Act of 1972 and until and unless that law is repealed, we remain in the EU. At the moment the only party that wants to overturn the referendum result is the Liberal Democrat Party, the party that had been in Coalition with the Tories between 2010-2015 but lost heavily in last year's General Election. However, there is still a means whereby the UK could remain in the EU. The government has already created a team of civil servants from various government departments to 'prepare the groundwork' for an EU exit, but the leadership contender for the Tory Party, Theresa May has said she will, if she becomes leader and therefore Prime Minister, create a 'Department for Brexit' to do the spade work.

The assumption is therefore that the UK government will seek to negotiate terms for an exit before invoking Article 50 rather than invoke Article 50 and then negotiate the terms, and while some EU member states have implied a 'sooner rather than later' action, none of them can force the UK to invoke Article 50. The fundamental issue will be the status of the UK's access to the Single Market and whether or not it can negotiate a unique deal on the free movement of people to reduce it or even to opt out of it. Other issues also exist, such as the overall terms of trade, tariffs, the status of EU citizens living in the UK and UK citizens in the EU, but the assumption is that as Parliament is supreme, any deal must be put to the House. What this does is leave open the possibility that if Parliament does not think the UK has a good deal, it will not approve of it and not invoke Article 50 and remain in the EU. Hardliners on the Leave side already believe they are being set up for a 'great betrayal' while others seem resigned to the UK leaving on the basis that the EU will not concede anything to the UK because it would encourage others to do so, and because some are so offended by the referendum results they want to see the back of the UK anyway.

The only good thing in this is that Theresa May looks like she will be the Prime Minister, through one cannot underestimate the ability of the Tories in their present condition to choose an idiot like Michael Gove. The point is that because Mrs May has been a senior figure in the government for some years there will be no call for a new General Election, certainly not from Labour as in their present state the result would be fatal. Thus, if she becomes Prime Minister, both parties can spend the next four years dealing with their internal problems, while presenting an appearance of stability to please the markets, sort of. Unfortunately, it does look like our domestic politics will be obsessed with Europe for the next two years.

Theresa May has also signalled that she will not make the repeal of the Human Rights Act a priority, and that she has different views on economic policy from George Osborne, but it is still early days and every day seems to fling some new hot potato onto the plate.

Thanks Stavros, for the very concise and yet seemingly thorough reply. Well done.

Not exactly clear what took Boris down but won't argue with the result.
Theresa May seems like a rational, experienced politician. Even though she's from the Remain camp she's since indicated she won't be part of a "great betrayal"
As you say her emergence as Tory front runner has definitely had a calming effect on global markets.

Last night on the BBC the EU's Trade Commissioner stated that no negotiations on trade could begin until Article 50 has been invoked and the UK has left the Union. This sets up a dilemma for both the EU and the UK -for the EU either to not want to offer the UK a special deal which other members may then demand for themselves; or to do so because the UK is 'too big to leave'; but it makes it harder for the UK to find a way to use a vote in Parliament to prevent Article 50 from being invoked. Buyer's regret may mean the shop will not offer a refund on any basis.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politic...endum-36678222

Meanwhile, in House of Cards, episode 666...
Those of you who think House of Cards is entertainment (I was never a fan) may want to read the account of the Cuckoo Nest Plot which implies that last February George Osborne, wanting to take over from Cameron when he was due to resign some time in 2017, persuaded Michael Gove to persuade a reluctant Boris Johnson to stab Cameron in the back by becoming the voice of the Leave campaign which he, Johnson would lose, taking his career with it to Osborne's benefit. This suggests that a referendum we did not need, has ended up demolishing the career of the main threat to George Osborne, but has also ended Osborne's dream of being Prime Minister (though he does get to swan around the world as Foreign Secretary in a May government) while taking the UK out of the EU, if it indeed that happens because it wasn't supposed to be like this. Whether or not they needed to go so far to 'stop Boris' suggests they didn't care either way and that the party is indeed Cuckoo.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...uckoo-nest-pl/

But here is the intriguing cross-over between British politics and the US Presidential election. The unthinkable may not be President Trump, but Trump not getting the nomination at all. Cleveland may well become famous again, but for whom will that bell in the Old Stone Church toll in July?

Kevin Spacey tells a funny story about how he was in a park in London on a fine day......when, suddenly, he sees a thief grab a Lady's purse and run away. So he gets up to chase the guy (in true movie star tradition) ...goes ten feet...... twists his ankle in a little rut and falls in agony to the ground.
Nobody even knew FDR was a cripple, no reporter ever squealed about JFK's side women.
Now I'm not saying we should put the Queen in charge of England, or feed the US Constitution into a super computer and let it run things, but I am saying that people fuck up everything, and if people knew all the real shit that goes down in the Halls of Justice, we would have to enact Marshall Law.
The USA is not greater than England, we have more money.
If I had money I would make the Jackson Family look normal.

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Originally Posted by buttslinger

Kevin Spacey tells a funny story about how he was in a park in London on a fine day......when, suddenly, he sees a thief grab a Lady's purse and run away. So he gets up to chase the guy (in true movie star tradition) ...goes ten feet...... twists his ankle in a little rut and falls in agony to the ground.

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No woman or sunshine involved- Kevin Spacey took his dog for a walk at Harmsworth Park in South London at 4.30 am and claimed ..well who knows, and really, does it matter?
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2004/.../film.filmnews

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Originally Posted by Stavros

..well who knows, and really, does it matter?

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Exactly.
What matters is that people see the Mexican in front of them at the 7-11 as more important than the Pacific Trade Agreement.
And that Obama taking my gun away is more important than a living minimum wage.
Your posts are perfect Stavros, and I respect that.
But I am pretty sure the lion's share of dudes that roll through here to see tranny cock don't read your posts.
Without name-calling and fighting, the politics and religion section is a yawnfest.
The people who voted for Brexit are the same caliber of people who vote for Trump.
Short on insight, Wide on views.
Government has become totally political, there are no more facts.
I told my brother the joke about the Teacher who was asked which side of the Scopes trial he was on....Divine Creation....or Evolution?
The teacher shrugged and said "I can teach it either way"
My brother is a teacher and got really mad at me and my joke.
For every one teacher there are five "F" students.
Bring back the smoke filled backrooms.
What the people know hurts them.
Bring back Queen Elizabeth I.
Let's make the English Empire great again.
OK, Stav, thanks for the correction, we now return you to your regularly scheduled program.
Hey, who do I have to blow to get a thumbs up around here?

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Originally Posted by buttslinger

Hey, who do I have to blow to get a thumbs up around here?

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You gotta contribute a little bit man. Think about the subject and write the best most relevant thing you can think of. I'm not sure what your post had to do with brexit. If there's immigration into Britain, it's probably not via Mexico. No offense:)

I'm happy to admit that much of my insight into BREXIT and all things British is thanks to posts by Stavros.
Of course, as you state, most HA eyeballs are here for the subject of tranny cock, which is why the site was constructed with a separate politics & religion section.

And who says the two subjects are mutually exclusive?

I'll let you guys in on a little secret: I'm not here to win friends and influence people. I'm here for laughs.
Brexit proved I got my racist bone from my English DNA.
You had to read between the lines, but it might as well have been the vote whether or not to make England white again.
White as Kate Middleton's butt.
The truth comes in flavors.
And nobody here uses their own names.
You should all be ashamed of your selves!!!!!
Beneath all the politeness people are animals.
Trained Animals.
Hail to the Redskins!!!
HA HA HA HA!

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Originally Posted by buttslinger

You had to read between the lines, but it might as well have been the vote whether or not to make England white again.

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Thank you.
I was trying to be polite in my other post. Guess that's just helping the denial. Maybe not really just white either. God save the defender of the faith, language, superior blood lines, culture, and currency against all those other people.

One more observation:
Just seems like one of the biggest problems the Brits have with the EU is that they're not in control of the EU.

https://s31.postimg.org/syzuoj663/tu...qzfro5_540.jpgfree photo hosting

Happy Independence Day!!!

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Originally Posted by hippifried

One more observation:
Just seems like one of the biggest problems the Brits have with the EU is that they're not in control of the EU.

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Hippifried this is close to the mark. The UK was not involved in the creation of the EU and has thus never been able to feel it had any 'ownership' over the project even though in the 40 years since we joined the UK has become one of the 'Big Three' along with France and Germany, and has had a major role in the creation of EU law and its regulatory framework, making the claim that 'our laws are made in Brussels' hollow to the extent that Hungarians for example could complain that EU law is in fact made in London.

The absence of the UK from the emerging EU fit in with possibly the greatest curse of the post-1945 world, namely the UK's belief in its 'Special Relationship' with the USA and the fact that with the exception of Edward Heath, the Prime Minister who took us into Europe, every Prime Minister from Attlee to Blair believed the Atlantic Relationship was the most important of the UK's alliances, through the Cold War and in particular in the case of 9/11 and regime change in Iraq. Tony Blair in 1997 when he became Prime Minister claimed he would put the UK 'at the heart of Europe' yet by 2001 was more concerned to partner the US, incredibly because he thought he would be able to contain the worst excesses of the US in Iraq, where, once Saddam had been overthrown, the British part of the 'Coalition Provisional Authority' was barely a shadow to supremo Bremer and the UK was rarely consulted on major decisions.
The Chilcot Report into Iraq will be published on Wednesday July 6th.

For those interested, there was once a proposal, prior to the creation of the Common Market in 1957, that France and the UK merge. The proposal was made by the French Prime Minister in 1956, Guy Mollet, who not only proposed the merger but, in spite of being a socialist, was prepared to accept Elizabeth as 'la Reine' of the new partnership which some wags have said might have been called Frangleterre....
You can read about it here-
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...k-6229169.html

Just over a week after the result and we hear interest rates may be cut EVEN further to help protect the economy and every'ones friend "George Osborne" rumoured to be cutting some sort of business taxes to encourage overseas investors to the UK!
Thank the Lord we never listened to you lot and hung ourselves!

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Originally Posted by peejaye

Just over a week after the result and we hear interest rates may be cut EVEN further to help protect the economy and every'ones friend "George Osborne" rumoured to be cutting some sort of business taxes to encourage overseas investors to the UK!
Thank the Lord we never listened to you lot and hung ourselves!

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Peejaye it is too early to say where the economy is heading. I thought interest rates would rise but I was wrong, but I still think at some point in the future rates and taxes must rise to raise revenue for the government even though the Chancellor has said he will not meet his target of achieving a budget surplus by 2020 and that comes on top of his statement in March that he will not be able to cut debt as a share of GDP this year. On top of that today trading was suspended in three major commercial property funds handled by Standard Life, Aviva and M&G, and some of the Russell group universities have said that universities in the EU are declining to seek UK involvement in new pan-EU research projects.

The legal situation is no clearer today. Oliver Letwin, who was appointed by David Cameron after the Leave vote to head the 'Brexit Unit' has said both that the Prime Minister can use the Royal Prerogative to invoke Article 50 without a vote in the Commons, but that the Commons would indeed vote-
Letwin claimed that although government lawyers had said the triggering of article 50 was a matter for the royal prerogative and not parliament, MPs would have a role in the process of Brexit since it would require the repeal of the European Communities Act 1972.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...nt-lawyers-say

This still makes it possible for the Commons to reject the government's decision to invoke Article 50 just as the Commons could reject any negotiated deal if it doesn't think it is good enough. There is also an elegant argument by a professor (emeritus) of public international law -Philip Allot- that the Referendum on the EU does not give the UK government the right or authority to exit the EU, and amongst others he makes the cogent point that-
...the original motivation for the holding of a referendum seems not to have been the public interest, but the particular interest of a political party.
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...unlawful-eu-uk

So far this week began with the resignation of Nigel Farage, and may end with Theresa May being named as the next Prime Minister. But as Harold Wilson once said, A week is a long time in politics...

Okay everyone. Enter the hand basket in an orderly fashion. Hell's thataway.

Where's the fucking Bank of England?
Are they waiting for Sterling to break 1.20

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Originally Posted by flabbybody

Where's the fucking Bank of England?
Are they waiting for Sterling to break 1.20

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The Governor of the Bank of England, Mark Carney is being seen here as the cool voice of reason while all around him politicians are fighting like rats in a sack. I think there is a short-to-medium term strategy -probably the only one the Bank can provide in the circumstances- which offers commercial banks the right to lend, while also offering up to £250 bn as 'piggy bank' the key point being that they believe they can live with a lower valued pound if it offsets sudden and sharp declines in other sectors of the economy. The usual point is that it will increase the cost of imports but boost exports. The high-value possibly over-valued commercial property sector is taking the flak because it requires long-term planning but there has been a view held long before the Referendum campaign began that property in the UK is over-valued anyway and is due for a 're-evaluation'.

The problem is that for all the talk by Leave that the UK has the 'fifth largest economy in the world', we also have the lowest productivity in the G7 countries, a debt the Chancellor has now said will take longer to pay off, a construction sector lacking in investor confidence at the same time people are complaining of shortages of housing, and the longer term problem that we don't know which investors are put off by the uncertainty over the UK's membership of the EU, those who will withdraw if Brexit happens, and those who want to be part of the 'new Britain' if and when it does. The crucial point of the Bank's policy is to contain the spread of doubt for as long as possible, but that means politicians taking up the slack to give the UK a better sense of where we are headed.

On that basis, while it may look like a sinking ship, Mark Carney may in fact be steering the ship past the rocks we can see on the coastline, but before us is the open sea...

seems likely there will be a recession. probably not very deep, but still could mean job losses.

and also, if it fucks our economy up, then what's the point of leaving????

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Originally Posted by holzz

seems likely there will be a recession. probably not very deep, but still could mean job losses.

and also, if it fucks our economy up, then what's the point of leaving????

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No pain...no gain. Andrea will there to meet you in the sunlit uplands of the world's best country when that great day comes.

Andrea was a Leave person. That doesn't mean I automatically hate her. Lotsa reasonable people got caught up in the insanity.
I simply want to root for the most qualified lady for new PM.
So who is it Stavros, Theresa or Andrea?

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Originally Posted by flabbybody

Andrea was a Leave person. That doesn't mean I automatically hate her. Lotsa reasonable people got caught up in the insanity.
I simply want to root for the most qualified lady for new PM.
So who is it Stavros, Theresa or Andrea?

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I am not a Tory but I would choose Theresa May because of her seniority in government -she was also an elected Tory councillor in the London Borough of Merton from 1986-1994 before being elected to Parliament in 1997, and was in a couple of Shadow positions before becoming Home Secretary in the Coalition government in 2010, but that has been her only job in government and it is said she doesn't know much about economics or foreign affairs. For me the point is that even though she voted to Remain her seniority means we would not need a general election now and as I said in a post at the beginning of the week that would calm the markets -this may now be a relative term- and offer some clear guidance on the way Article 50 is going to be handled, but note that at the moment as I understand it, Cameron will not leave office until the end of September. But that leaves May two uninterrupted months to wrap up the Home Office (nothing happens in August anyway unless it is a crisis) and get on top of the Brexit brief.

Leadsom has little experience of government and it is alleged she has embellished her CV to make it appear she was in senior positions in the City of London when she was not, and is also a recent convert to Christianity and may or may not have been in direct contact with Almighty God, a subject on which she is somewhat coy.
The problem is that there is as wide a gulf between the Conservative Party in Parliament and the country as there is in the case of Labour, and just as Corbyn is closer to the rank and file members of Labour, Leadsom both looks and sounds like those awful Tory women in the Shires who think the Telegraph crossword puzzle is a tougher challenge than the Times, who organise garden parties, make cakes and knit sweaters and do the flowers for Church on Sunday. She abstained on the same-sex marriage vote and critically, is a Brexiteer who the members 'may' think is less likely to renege on Article 50 than May.

The rational view is that the 150,000 Tory voters will choose experience over enthusiasm, but May's record in the Home Office on immigration has not been spectacular, and I don't know how far Brexit will be a deal breaker. On balance I think May will win, but having been wrong on the EU vote don't knock me if I get it wrong. If Leadsom does win, I dread to think of the consequences for this country, and they are already bad enough.

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Originally Posted by holzz

seems likely there will be a recession. probably not very deep, but still could mean job losses.

and also, if it fucks our economy up, then what's the point of leaving????

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Where were the "voices of concern" when the Redcar Steel works closed, all the pits, shipyards & the majority of our heavy industry resulting in millions of people losing their jobs. Don't make me laugh!
Don't forget; the government will soon have an extra £161m to spend every week so don't lose to much sleep over it, I shan't.

Andrea out. Somewhat clear sailing for new PM May.
Sterling crawls above 1.30, stocks rally.
End of world put on hold. Maybe we'll start calling her Mother Theresa.
Stay tuned

Theresa May will become the 76th Prime Minister on Wednesday 13th July 2016. Earlier today she said:

"Brexit means Brexit and we're going to make a success of it," adding that there would be "no attempt to rejoin [the EU] by the back door".

She wants to put workers on the Boards of companies, curb executive pay, and tackle poverty -indeed someone on the lunchtime news noted her speech could have been made by ex-Labour leader Ed Miliband.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36760953

The markets may show some sign of relief for a while, but I suspect Theresa May has yet to prove to the wider Conservative Party that she is as committed to the UK's exit from the EU as she says she is. On this issue, the devil will be in the details.

But one is relieved to see the back of the horrendous Andrea Leadsom, one hopes she will also lose her job in government and join Michael Gove on the backbenches.

Curbing executive pay, tackling poverty? DO NOT hold your breath!
Where have we heard all this bollox before? Cameron.....and executive pay as gone through the roof, poverty is out of control with 25% of children in this country living in or bordering on poverty! The wealthy will no doubt dispute this figure?
More austerity looming, especially for the North and public money been thrown at consultants acting for private companies, etc & millions more spent on public enquiries about shit no ones concerned about!
Basically.....the same old shit as before! :crap

right now the same old shit as before seems very comforting

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Originally Posted by peejaye

Curbing executive pay, tackling poverty? DO NOT hold your breath!
Where have we heard all this bollox before? Cameron.....and executive pay as gone through the roof, poverty is out of control with 25% of children in this country living in or bordering on poverty! The wealthy will no doubt dispute this figure?
More austerity looming, especially for the North and public money been thrown at consultants acting for private companies, etc & millions more spent on public enquiries about shit no ones concerned about!
Basically.....the same old shit as before! :crap

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Peejaye you are right to be, shall I say, sceptical? Theresa May is not in fact free to write her own agenda because she was elected on the 2015 Tory Manifesto, which is at least a guide to policy, but also has been lumbered with Brexit preparations. I suspect that when she returns from the Palace on Wednesday evening to draft the agenda for her first Cabinet meeting, Brexit will be Item No 1. What she has said in policy terms can thus be considered aspirational, I seem to recall David Cameron making a lot of socially agreeable promises when he became leader of the Party, 'hugging a hoody' (poverty), 'hugging a husky' (climate change), hugging his wife (no comment), but not realising any of these policies because he was forced into a coalition. It is too early to tell. One can only hope that Mrs May establishes a sense of order and direction in government policy, though we need to know if there will be talks before the invocation of Article 50, a Parliamentary vote on it, or if the Royal Prerogative will be used. And I think we need to know this by Friday.

Thanks Stavros. My opinion is things can't be any worse but don't get me started on the last woman PM we had!:banghead
I am worried though!

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Originally Posted by peejaye

Thanks Stavros. My opinion is things can't be any worse but don't get me started on the last woman PM we had!:banghead
I am worried though!

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It is more likely to get worse before it gets better. Academics in Universities working mostly in medicine, science and engineering have already been told they cannot apply for new research funding on joint projects in the EU under the Horizon 2020 programme until the status of the UK has been resolved, one example of how uncertainty affects real people and real jobs.
However, the pound has moved up slightly against the dollar, and Theresa May has the advantage of being the winner in this current moment in the Tory Party, but is on notice from the militant Brexiteers who will want one of their own to have a prominent job in the new Cabinet.

There is another way of looking at this, and that is to compare the Conservatives to the Republican Party in the USA, not least because Andrea Leadsom received funding from the NeoCon American Legislative Exchange Council [ALEC] to attend one of its conferences. ALEC is part-funded by the Koch Brothers and denies climate change, is linked to TEA Party issues on tax, gun ownership and so on, and we know Leadsom is a 'born again Christian' -but has conceded defeat to Mrs May.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...dsom-tea-party

It was Theresa May who pointed out to the Tory Party conference in 2002 that people thought of it as 'the Nasty Party', and it must be said that on social issues such as same-sex partnerships and marriage Theresa May, the daughter of a Church of England vicar, has been as liberal as Cameron, and that where the US Republican Party has become increasingly opposed to social issues that Americans approve of or are relaxed about, the Tories have travelled in the opposite direction, even if those Tory ladies in the Shires are closer to Leadsom than they are to May. The speech I cited from yesterday also implies she is a 'One Nation' Tory rather than a tax-obsessed, market-driven 'God and Country' nutter, so the comparison with the Republicans doesn't go far these days. Theresa May is no Thatcher.

May does have weaknesses, such as a lack of knowledge of Foreign Policy although like every Prime Minister since Anthony Eden she is pro-Israeli, but did not visit Israel for the first time until 2014, whereas Gordon Brown (whose father was also cloth) was taken to Israel on a regular basis by his father when young. Although May was in favour of repealing the Human Rights Act (199-eightand it is n the 2015 Manifesto, I think she has put this aside for time being, whereas the Investigatory Powers Bill https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investigatory_Powers_Bill that will enable the govt to access internet browsing habits and emails is still going through Parliament subject to whatever amendments the opposition can get out of it. A lot depends on how much time is taken up through Brexit, the current assumption being that May will be seeking informal talks with the EU between now and October and that Article 50 might not be invoked until next year at the earliest, I think that is what I heard on BBC-2s Newsnight last night. But as usual these days, all of these are subject to change.

May's stance on Israel is reviewed here, though be warned the link keeps re-refreshing and is a real nuisance.
http://www.timesofisrael.com/theresa...6-connections/

Well; Good riddance to bad rubbish!
In the 1980's we had Thatcher-ism, now I suspect we will get May-hem!
Camerons legacy is the 1,109,309 of his own citizens registered with food banks and taking us out of the EU!
Most complementary remark I heard today about him was a "modern" leader?

So Boris Johnson(Bo Jo) and David Davies are going to lead negotiations on our exit from Europe?
This may surprise some people; but I think they may do a pretty good job. Davies is one of the most intelligent Tories out there and Boris is very popular overseas, people like him and he makes them laugh. They don't know him like we do maybe?
A mixed new cabinet, not yet complete, shame about Hammond as Chancellor, a nasty character "up to his eyebrows" in "dirty money". The most important post behind PM so expect few changes for the "less well off".

An alternative view can be found here; Some of you won't like it!

http://johnpilger.com/articles/why-t...d-no-to-europe

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Originally Posted by peejaye

An alternative view can be found here; Some of you won't like it!
http://johnpilger.com/articles/why-t...d-no-to-europe

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Where does one begin with the rubbish that Pilger writes? Two examples:

The reason millions of refugees have fled the Middle East - first Iraq, now Syria - are the invasions and imperial mayhem of Britain, the United States, France, the European Union and Nato. Before that, there was the wilful destruction of Yugoslavia.
-As if the extinction of civil society over 40 years of brutal and corrupt military dictatorship were not enough, and poor governance of no relevance. As if Tito had not clearly failed to build an integrated federal state of Yugoslavia so that when he died it collapsed and revived a murderous Serbian nationalism that adopted mass murder as a route to the creation of a long-established 'Greater Serbia' -promoted by Pilger's old flame Milosovic.

In the week of the referendum vote, no British politician and, to my knowledge, no journalist referred to Vladimir Putin's speech in St. Petersburg commemorating the seventy-fifth anniversary of Nazi Germany's invasion of the Soviet Union on 22 June, 1941. The Soviet victory - at a cost of 27 million Soviet lives and the majority of all German forces - won the Second World War.

-So the role of the British, the Americans, the French, the Dutch, the Polish, and others from the Normandy Landings and the invasion of Southern Italy in the defeat of Nazi Germany was just an unnecessary sideshow?

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Originally Posted by peejaye

...
Camerons legacy is the 1,109,309 of his own citizens registered with food banks and taking us out of the EU!
...

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So much for same-sex marriage then....

What did the Soviets do with American and British POW's at the end of WW 2?
https://stevehollier.wordpress.com/2...ver-to-return/