Well said. Although I wouldn't have used the marijuana analogy (I don't really think marijuana should be illegal).Quote:
Originally Posted by TFan
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Well said. Although I wouldn't have used the marijuana analogy (I don't really think marijuana should be illegal).Quote:
Originally Posted by TFan
Only a person who knows he has lost the argument declares that he "will not discuss this topic any more."Quote:
Originally Posted by McManaman
Moot point.Quote:
Originally Posted by twowaybro
The fact that the second set of photos, the ones of the Palestinian children dressed up as suicide-bombers, are widely seen throughout the Palestinian and Arab world-community, and meet with approval from the militant factions thereof (at least that's what all the evidence I've seen tells me; if you have evidence that indicates the opposite to be true, then, by all means, show me) does said factions no credit.
I'm bored today so i have to:
This is interesting, isn't it? Indirectly, you also claim here that your country is a kind of uncivilized... Stealing or manipulating the votes is something that only belongs to uncivilized, non- or half-democratic countries, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by interestedParty
Well, you elected that cowboy twice (two times), so that's something that must be the will of the people.. Or, maybe someone stole the votes 2 times? In such case, this becomes a kind of tradition.. Are you on the way to become god damned russia, or something?Quote:
Originally Posted by interestedParty
Most, if not all, of the so-called Arab "suicide bombers" in Palestine (i.e., so-called "Israel") are simply bombs that the Israeli government planted itself in order to claim a so-called "suicide attack" as a pretext for its continuing genocide against the native inhabitants.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quinn
If the notion of that should seem hard to believe, let us just consider what the Israeli government does to its "own" Jews--Jewish children, at that. There is the case of the 100,000-plus so-called "ringworm children," who were Sephardi children that, during the 1950s, the Israeli government irradiated with 35,000 times the maximum safe life-exposure dose of X-rays through their heads (i.e., all of them got this same dose). The U.S. government paid the Israeli government today's equivalent of 50 billion U.S. dollars to conduct these radiation experiments, even though the ill effects of massive doses of X-rays were well-known since the 1920s, and even though the actual radiation experiments only cost about a million dollars (in other words, the rest of the money was simply a payoff to the Israeli government by the U.S. government for it conducting these radiation tests). The Israeli government called them "ringworm children" as a pretext to massively irradiate their skulls, even though almost all of them were perfectly heathly. Many of the children died within a few days of the radiation exposer, with virtually all the rest being left with brain-damage and/or cancers. Most of the so-called "ringworm children" are now dead, having died early deaths from the lifelong complications that resulted from their massive irradiation.
See also:
"50 years on, Lavon Affair still sparks public debate in Israel," Dan Baron, Jewish Telegraphic Agency (JTA), July 20, 2004:
http://www.jta.org/page_view_story.a...riles%20Israel
http://www.clevelandjewishnews.com/a...alavon0720.txt
PrisonPlanet.com News Archive: Israeli Roots of Hamas:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/archives_hamas.html
"Puppet On A String: Hamas Dances To Israel's Tune" by Paul Joseph Watson:
http://www.propagandamatrix.com/puppet_on_a_string.html
"9/11 and Anthrax: FRAMING ARABS," WhatReallyHappened.com:
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/framingarabs.html
"Tracking the 19 Hijackers--What are they up to now?--At least 9 of them survived 9/11," WelfareState.com:
http://www.welfarestate.com/911/
http://web.archive.org/web/200212080...state.com/911/
http://www.google.com/search?q=cache...state.com/911/
"Extreme Right: Spark intifada to prevent expulsions," Efrat Weiss, Yedioth Ahronoth, June 14, 2006:
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...263038,00.html
"Israeli agents accused of creating fake al-Qaeda cell," Sophie Claudet, Agence France-Presse (AFP), December 9, 2002:
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/...950271656.html
"The Phony (Mossad) Al Qaeda Cell in Palestine," WhatReallyHappened.com:
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/fakealqaeda.html
"Mossad Exposed in Phony 'Palestinian Al-Qaeda' Caper," Michele Steinberg and Hussein Askary, Executive Intelligence Review (EIR), Volume 29, Number 49, December 20, 2002:
http://www.larouchepub.com/other/200...idf_qaeda.html
"Nidal planned to oust Saddam," NewsInsight.net, August 28, 2002:
"The Palestinian terrorist, Abu Nidal, was working for the Israeli intelligence agency, Mossad, for the last four years and was plotting a coup against Iraqi president Saddam Hussain at the behest of Western powers, top diplomats said.":
http://www.prisonplanet.com/news_alert_hamas3.html
http://www.newsinsight.net/nati2.asp...1293&ctg=World
http://web.archive.org/web/200211200...9/11285-1.html
"Hamas history tied to Israel," Richard Sale, UPI Terrorism Correspondent From the International Desk, United Press International (UPI), June 18, 2002:
http://web.archive.org/web/200209010...et/hamas1.html
http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=...2-051845-8272r
"The Hamas-Likud Pairing," Editorial, Jerusalem Post, August 25, 1995:
http://www.io.com/~jewishwb/iris/archives/608.html
http://www.prisonplanet.com/news_alert_hamas4.html
"Israeli Roots of Hamas are being exposed," Dean Andromidas, Executive Intelligence Review (EIR), Volume 29, Number 2, January 18, 2002:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/AND204A.html
"Sharon War Plan Exposed: Hamas Gang Is His Tool," Jeffrey Steinberg, Executive Intelligence Review (EIR), Volume 28, Number 27, July 20, 2001:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/STE204A.html
"Israel's Hamas," George Szamuely, The New York Press, Volume 15, Issue 17, April 2002:
http://www.nypress.com/15/17/taki/2.cfm
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/SZA204A.html
Israel's Sacred Terrorism: A Study Based on Moshe Sharett's Personal Diary and Other Documents by Livia Rokach, foreword by Noam Chomsky (AAUG Press; Third Edition: 1986), ISBN: 0-937694-70-3 (0937694703):
http://www.chss.montclair.edu/englis...ys/rokach.html
---
And let us not forget that the largest terrorist act in Palestine was and remains the bombing of the King David Hotel on July 26, 1946 by Jews dressed as Arabs. 91 people were killed and around 45 people were injured. The attack was ordered by David Ben Gurion and directed by Menachem Begin, both of whom would later become Israeli Prime Ministers. For more on that, see:
"King David Hotel bombing," Wikipedia:
http://web.archive.org/web/200302280...ng_David_Hotel
"The Bombing Of The King David Hotel":
http://web.archive.org/web/200110190...davidhotel.htm
See also:
WhatReallyHappened.com News Articles Archive:
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/May03articles.html
"5/18/03 Nine killed in double Jerusalem suicide bombing
http://www.aljazeerah.info/News%20ar...%20bombing.htm Police Chief Shlomo Aharonishki said the first bomber was disguised as an Orthodox Jew and that a skullcap and prayer shawl were found on him. (Interesting that nobody ever suspects that bombers who look like Arabs might be in disguise, especially since the King David Hotel was blown up by Israelis dressed as Arabs, not to mention the infamous Lavon Affair. In any event, the timing makes it obvious that the bombings were intended to derail the peace process. Now, who wanted that to happen? That's your ultimate mastermind.)"
Concerning recent news on the bombing of the King David Hotel on July 26, 1946 by Jews dressed as Arabs, which to this day remains the largest terrorist act ever committed in Palestine (i.e. "Israel"), which was ordered by David Ben Gurion and directed by Menachem Begin, both of whom would later become Israeli Prime Ministers, see the below article:
http://images.thetimes.co.uk/TGD/pic...,322475,00.jpg
"British anger at terror celebration," Ned Parker and Stephen Farrell, Times (U.K.), July 20, 2006:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...277717,00.html
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/printFr...7717-3,00.html
http://extras.timesonline.co.uk/king_david_2.pdf
http://extras.timesonline.co.uk/king_david_1.pdf
You missed the entire point of my argument, which was this: we Americans do not think or act as a single unit, nor does any other nation or people. The root cause of all bigotries and racist philosophies is the belief that all members of a given people/ethnicity/nationality think and/or act as a single entity. By making such sweeping generalizations about Americans, you prove yourself to be nothing more than a common bigot.Quote:
Originally Posted by McManaman
And before you say a word about my post of Japanese WWII war-crimes, know that the I was referring to them in order to point out that the Japanese government was just as knee-deep in blood as the other nations in the war.
The decision to use two prototype nuclear bombs was, in the eyes of the historian, perhaps a poor one. But the other options facing Truman at that juncture were just as bad, and they were (in no particular order):
- Conclude a peace with the then present Japanese government, which, even if it was agreed to, would most likely have left the principle warmongers in power, thus leaving the door open to further conflict. In fact, even after Hiroshima and Nagasaki were bombed, and it was apparent that the Emperor was getting ready to surrender, there was an attempted coup d'etat on the part of certain factions within the military government (here's the Wikipedia article on the subject: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrender_of_Japan). To have chosen to pursue this course would have been tantamount to concluding a peace treaty with Germany and allowing Hitler and his henchmen to stay in power.
- Invade Japan — a course of action that would've meant the death of several hundred thousand American soldiers, and many times that number of Japanese soldiers and civilians. All throughout the war in the Pacific, the Japanese military had shown a remarkable disregard for human life, as was shown not only by their savage treatment POW's (cf. my earlier post on Japanese war-crimes) but also in battle (e.g., the kamikaze attacks on the US fleet off Okinawa, the suicidal tactics its soldiers engaged in when it was clear that defeat was inevitable, convincing civilians that they should commit suicide rather than capitulate (this was done primarily through propaganda; cf. Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Okinawa), etc).
The plan for the invasion of Japan was codenamed "Operation Downfall' (Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Downfall), and — as I said before — the casualties would've been horrendous. I quote the Wikipedia article:
'Olympic' was the codename for the invasion of Kyushu, and 'Coronet' was the codename for the invasion of Honshu. Part of the force to be used in Operation Downfall would've been soldiers redeployed from the European Theater, where they had just finished defeating the Third Reich and were expecting to be sent home.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
- Blockade Japan. This option is not usually brought up during these types of discussions (at least the ones I've heard), but I'm sure it must've crossed the minds of the military's higher-ups at the time. In this option, US and Allied fleets would have, I believe, created a blockade around Japan, in a massive attempt at seige warfare. A similar tactic had worked for Britain in the first World War, although, on its own, it hadn't been enough to defeat the Kaiserreich. In my opinion, if this strategy was pursued, the death-toll for the Japanese civilian population would've been even higher than it would've been for Operation Downfall — although it would have meant less casualties for the Allies. Hunger and disease would probably resulted in the deaths of millions, since any fishing-boats and traders would be commandeered or destroyed by the Allied fleet. This would've taken years to carry out, and would also have resulted in the partitioning of Japan after its surrender, since it's doubtless that the Soviet Union would have to have been enlisted for the plan to succeed. As a result, there would have been a North Japan and a South Japan — one Communist, and the other democratic — just as there is a North Korea and South Korea, and as there was once an East Germany and West Germany.
So, here's President Truman, faced with this stark decision, and suddenly he's told that this top-secret military project has perfected two totally new prototype bombs that are so powerful that they could destroy entire cities. He used them. Unfortunately, the strategy of destroying cities was used by all sides in WWII (although Germany was the first to attempt it, the Allies — through the direction of the British Air Marshal Harris(Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Harris#World_War_II), who was the impetus behind the strategy — used it to most devastating effect against Germany; when Japan became within the range of the B-29, General Curtis LeMay(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtis_Lemay), ordered the fire-bombing of, among other industrial targets, Tokyo. This is one of the more shameful aspects of the American defeat of Japan).
There are some who say that the US government should have simply demonstrated the A-bomb on a deserted island and had a Japanese delegation witness it. It is possible that this might have worked, however, I doubt it. Given the tenacity of the Japanese militarists, and their power within the nation's government, the only way this would've worked would've been for the Emperor himself to be present as a witness; anyone else would have been sidelined or intimidated into giving the Emporer a whitewashed account of the test. In any event, Truman's political foes would have lambasted him for having treated Japan with kid-gloves after so many American soldiers had been killed; remember, no one except the scientists who created them truly understood the power of these weapons, and even they couldn't conceive of the horror that their use would unleash until after the fact. And to the military higher-ups, who knew as much about nuclear radiation as the general public — that is, absolutely nothing — these were nothing more than 'supersized' bombs.
In the end, the usage of the two A-bombs can only be called the lesser of the three evils.
PS—Just so you know, the reason the Japanese decided to attack Pearl Harbor was most likely the oil embargo the US government placed on Japan for waging war in Manchuria; the Japanese military wanted to bring about a swift defeat of the US Pacific fleet, hoping that would convince the Rooselvelt administration to sue for peace (with terms that would allow the Japanese government to increase its sphere of influence in Asia). However, the roots of the conflict probably date back at least to the Russo-Japanese War, when it became clear to the US government that Japan was beginning to assert its claim to territorial expansion in the Pacific (and that it also was a military force to be reckoned with).
this id a pure BULLSHIT , it will be the same like saying that the 9/11 was a U.S. government plan as an excuse to fihgt Bin Laden :evil:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie Michelle
:roll: OMG..Quote:
Originally Posted by interestedParty
Well, i admire your patriotism.
My previous post was not an expression of patriotism, it was the truth.Quote:
Originally Posted by McManaman
PS—I can't help but remark on your ability for maintaining your ignorance.
You have also ignored this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by I
I love Israel! They will not be compromised by the PC shit that has draped the world. It's simple, you fuck with us, we will decimate you. To date, they really have not unleashed the dogs of war.They have really been firing warning shots considering what their capable of.
They are truly commited to fighting terrorism, especially when it effects the homeland. Considering their geographic location, and their neighbors, I think they have shown considerable restraint, knowing their capabilities.
And don't give me shit about how they took the Palestinian home land. They're there, they made something of themselves, advanced there society and are now protecting it.
Too bad the Arab and Muslim countries can't find a way to funnel a piece of their oil riches down to their peoples. Maybe there wouldn't be these problems with countries that had to work for what they got.
To Hamas, Hezzbolah, Taliban, Al Quida (and all the rest of you "think you're entiled to something without earning it") may you go to your grave and realize that the teaching of your fat ass teachers who are making THEIR lives easier on earth by making you their lap dogs who do their bidding were false. Think about the 79 virgins. They'll scream in pain when you fuck them and then ask when are you going to marry them and not fuck them again. And you will say, I'm truely in hell, and fuck the goats were better than this.
Non thinking assholes! :evil:
I'm sorry, but yes - it was a pure act of patriotism. No matter how negative it is to bomb someone with 2 nuclear bombs you will always try to find out something positive in it, only because that was the country of your origin that did it. If, for some reasons, russians did that against Japan, you would probably condemn it along with me. Pure little Truman. How could he possibly (and not only him, but also all those scientists too) figure out that a bomb like that not only kills when it detonates, but also many years afterwards, and that kind of killing is even worse. Also, regarding the truth of your wikipedia: I'm pretty much convinced thatQuote:
Originally Posted by interestedParty
if for some reasons axes won the WWII your wikipedia would sound totally different. I mean, it's always the winner that writes the history, it's always the winner's truth that matters, right? For example:
THE KAMIKAZE LIE
It was certainly in the evil media's interest to make the war up,
and to make the "enemies" as ruthless and evil as possible. One
notorious example is the lie that Japanese aviators were actually
encouraged to destroy their valuable aircraft (and themselves) by
crashing them into the sides of US ships.
Dr. Rubert Faurr, a French professor of basket-weaving, has
quoted no less an authority than General Douglas MacArthur on his
reaction when he heard the first rumor about these supposed
suicide missions. "That's ridiculous!" MacArthur exclaimed.
Honest Japanese people will also admit how absurd this claim is.
The word "kamikaze" actually means "he who herds the sheep" in
certain Japanese dialects, according to Japan expert Mort
Clondyke. And Atoyot Adnoh, currently Japanese minister of
history in the Diet, has stated publically that "that whole
episode was really crazy."
Hehe, pretty funny joke, isn't it? When an idiot look at it, withouth much thinking he will accept those "facts" directly and start shouting out new facts he newly learned.
But besides that joke, do you believe in kamikaze? I somehow doubt..... It might be a part of the propaganda war. I have not been there, so i'm not sure..
I'm not that easily manipulated with the "facts" that you can find on some popular media pages, i tend to build my own opinion more carefully than you. Of course, much of the WWII historical events in your wikipedia are actually true but some of them could have been written by some "patriots" like you. You are not objective at all.
I'm not generalising, that's pure bullshit from your side. I'm not that stupid to not be able to figure out that all the individuals are different. I just described how your country sometimes acts as uncivilised in global. But of course, your endless hate against me will make you describe me as "dumb fuck", "retard" and "common bigot" and even something more than that.Quote:
Originally Posted by interestedParty
By the way, it seems to me that you hate me a little bit extra.. Are there any other reasons for that, besides those political issues? Have we "met" before? "interestedParty" is pretty new signature here at HA, does it belong to someone i know?
hitler stated something similar during WWII too..Quote:
Originally Posted by ezed
By the way, they will not only decimate their enemies (which would be an entire arab world) but UN observers too, on their way to make some civilisation over there:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/...ain/index.html
That's interesting statement, particularly in light of this statement:Quote:
Originally Posted by McManaman
I elected "that cowboy"? Wow, I never realized that I was responsible for Bush becoming President! Or maybe you were generalizing...Quote:
Originally Posted by McManaman
For one thing, if the Axis (please check your spelling before you submit your posts, otherwise you come across as even more of an ignoramus than you actually are) had won WWII, I would not be here, since my grandparents would've been sent to the gas-chambers.Quote:
Originally Posted by McManaman
And just where do you get your 'facts'? Most of my knowledge of WWII pertains to the European Theater, more specifically the Third Reich — and before you ask, that knowledge was obtained mostly from five books: Hitler, by Joachim Fest; Speer, also by Fest; The Order of the Death's Head, by Heinz Höhne; Inside the Third Reich, by Albert Speer; and Nazi Germany, by Klaus Fischer — if you want to acquire knowledge about a country's history, it's best to read a history book by someone who's from that country — all those authors are from Germany, and, of course, all were affected by WWII. I trust the information I get from Wikipedia, because said information matches information I have gained from other, trusted, sources (including the sources I mentioned above); therefore, I have every reason to believe in the veracity of the facts about the war in the Pacific that I've found on that site.Quote:
Originally Posted by McManaman
You say that I'm not objective — I say that I'm as objective as a human being can be about such things. Doubting history just because it's written down in history books isn't being objective, it's being paranoid. Short of actually being present at a given event, or scouring the world for first-hand accounts (something that most people, myself included, don't have either the time, energy, or resources to do anyway) the only thing a student of history can do is to seek out knowledge from books that are attested to as being accurate (usually by consulting bibliographies, book reviews, and, in some instances, history professors).
PS—McManaman, you still haven't told me what country you're from.
Oh, i see.. You are jewish (hopefully not the ortodox one, those are real fanatics), that's why you are so fanaticaly involved in this thread. Now i can understand you calling me dumb fuck, etc.. and for all the shit directed to me for misspelling the words of axees and hollocowst..Quote:
Originally Posted by interestedParty
You know, the history is something that can be manipulated by anyone. That's why i do not like the history, i like to see the current facts around me, that's the best evidence of what's happening in the world, and that shows oss who is the bad guy and who is the victim. And look around you and tell me, who are bad guys today? But please, be objective!Quote:
Originally Posted by interestedParty
Iceland. Now tell me all the bad fact that your whackypedia has to offer against it.Quote:
Originally Posted by interestedParty
Following your logic, the news is just as vulnerable to manipulation as history. It's all about context: show a video of bomb going off and put whatever narration you want to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by McManaman
The ease of manipulation of news by the news-media — all news-media — is striking. For instance, interviews with prominent figures can be edited so that they are made to look however the journalist wants them to. Man-on-the-street interviews can be conducted in such a way as to make a certain segment of the population appear stupid and/or ignorant. Segments can be shot in order to make it appear that one side of a conflict is more to blame than the other, even if it is clear to everyone involved that both sides are equally to blame. The more removed a story is from the region to which it is being reported to, the easier it is to distort the facts. However, I don't assume that these methods are employed at all — I know that it's possible to do these things, but I also know that it's highly improbable that they actually are done (at least not on any program I would watch). I don't see the point in doubting every piece of information that's presented to me. Empiricism can only be stretched so far before its use starts to border on the absurd.
You are too dismissive of historical study. A good student of history should know when a source is to be given credit, and when it is to be taken with a grain of salt. A good historian tells his/her reader when an account is verifiable, and when it is dubious. The study of history is fraught with difficulty, but yields tangible rewards. It allows its students to see patterns in current events, and to see how pursuing a slightly different course might yield results that would benefit everyone.
In regards to the present Israeli incursion into Lebanon, let me make one thing clear: I do not believe it is the correct response to Hezbollah's rocket attacks on Israel. In the end, I believe it will create more terrorists than it will destroy.
OK.Quote:
Originally Posted by interestedParty
Izrael occupied Golan that belongs to Syria. They build settlements over there, so they are showing the arab world the clear picture of their interests, and that would be to expand and grab more territory. That's the fact that you can find on the maps around the world. Now it's Syria that is represented as a bad country ?!? No lies there. Now, according to the UN agreements, izrael should take significantly less territory from former Palestina, but they occupied a lot more, and now are building their settlements over there on the remaining palestinian territory also. They are expanding their living room by performing ethnic cleansing of arabs that lived there throught many centuries. That's also the fact. Now, Izrael committed a massacre in Sabra and Shatila (i think this is described in Wikipedia) (Wiki - i like that name) and that massacre accordint to some sources was led by Ariel Sharon. Instead of punishing that war crime bastard, Izrael puts him to be a prime minister - tell me about the humiliation of a nation (palestinians). And all that supported by USA. All that are pure facts that happened in modern time, not historical bullshit. I saw this, many other europeans did the same thing, and we are confused. Why? You tell me that. Many of oss see Hezbollah to be a kind of a logical resistance movement, partisans that are fighting against this kind of occupation. Are they really terrorists?
So, you are willing to ignore the overwhelming body of evidence put forth by Palestinian organizations who say that the suicide bombers are their own people (Hamas, Fatah, PFLP, etc.), human rights groups, eye-witness accounts, and the Israeli government? No offense, but your position is so weak that it doesn't even merit a debate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie Michelle
-Quinn
You dope, hitler wanted to take countries, Israel just wants to keep their's.Quote:
Originally Posted by McManaman
regarding your second comment, the point is when they're attacked they lash out with the ferocity of a junkyard dog. Which is what I admire.
Don't portray my comments with those of hitler, he was an insecure house painter with a little dick who frightened others with no balls until he poked the wrong lions. If you want to compare me to a historical figure use Vlad Dracula. I would have those attack me impaled on the city streets with nice little signs saying, "LEAVE ME THE FUCK ALONE OR THIS WILL HAPPEN TO YOU! I DON'T WANT YOUR LAND, I DON'T WANT YOUR OPINIONS! GO FUCK YOURSELVES AND LEAVE ME ALONE! NO TRESSPASSING!
Ps.. I don't read fucking links, the articles are usually written by morons craving attention.
Your comments are very infantile. As your auto-portrait on that avatar. Well i wont generalise and say that all americans sound as pathetic as you do in their posts, cause THAT would really be insult to a nation.Quote:
Originally Posted by ezed
You know you're right. But semi intellectual morons with no sense of humor sometimes cause me to lash out. That being said, I say blow me you fuckwad and generalize all you want, it seems every one does. Because yours and mine opinions don't mean shit in the scheme of things. The difference is ...you haven't realized that yet. You silly Goose!Quote:
Originally Posted by McManaman