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Senile is when you lose your senses, not come to them. Its so typical of you Republicans to turn so quickly on someone when that person does something you will never do; admit to a mistake.Quote:
Originally Posted by yourdaddy
The entire war has been a horrible mistake. Its time for Bush and Cheney and the entire neocon movement to admit that, stop trying to save face, and start trying to save lives.
FK
The question isn't whether we went there for the right reasons. Its whether we went there for the reasons we were told were the right reasons. We didn't. We were mislead into this war for all the wrong reasons and nothing can retroactively rationalize what we are doing there now. We are continuing to be mislead. Bush's recent speech tried to blame all the present problems with rebuilding Iraq on Saddam, ignoring that we destroyed that country. We burnt their house to roast the pig, trying to save our own bacon.Quote:
Originally Posted by BOATER
FK
This was clearly a war of choice, now we know it was a bad choice to go gangbusters into Iraq and expend capital and lives for what.....no WMD, no capturing hearts and minds, no OIL (ironic isn't it that we don't even get good oil from iraq), etc
Bush has no conscience...even LBJ knew he had lied and done many things wrong and didnt run for that reason. Bush should resign but we know unless the Dems get the house back there will be no investigation that will bring out the truth on how much they lied...
Now we torture....This president has found a way to hit bottom and find a way to go further down,....this presidency has been a travesty for all of us
Situation In Iraq Is Civil War
by Rep. John Murtha 01/12/2006
According to the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, Second Edition, the definition of a civil war is a "war between political factions or regions within the same country." That is exactly what is going on in Iraq, not a global war on terrorism, as the President continues to portray it.
93 percent of those fighting in Iraq are Iraqis. A very small percentage of the fighting is being done by foreign fighters. Our troops are caught in between the fighting. 80 percent of Iraqis want us out of there and 45 percent think it is justified to kill American troops.
Iraqis went to the polls in droves on December 15th and rejected the secular, pro-democracy candidates and those who the Administration in Washington propped up. Preliminary vote results indicate that Iyad Allawi, the pro-American Prime Minister, received about 8 percent of the vote and Ahmad Chalabi, Iraq's current Oil Minister and close associate of the U.S. Iraq war planners, received less than 1 percent. According to General Vines, the top operational commander in Iraq, "the vote is reported to be primarily along sectarian lines, which is not particularly heartening." The new government he said "must be a government by and for Iraqis, not sects."
The ethnic and religious strife in Iraq has been going on, not for decades or centuries, but for millennia. These particular explosive hatreds and tensions will be there if our troops leave in six months, six years or six decades. It is time to re-deploy our troops and to re-focus our attention on the real threats posed by global terrorism.
www.huffingtonpost.com
It appears that the neocon chickenhawks are launching the swiftboats again...
Bush Admin. Launched Secret Smear Campaign Against Murtha...
The Huffington Post
The Huffington Post has learned the Bush administration recently asked high ranking military leaders to denounce Congressman John Murtha. Congressman Murtha has called for the Bush Administration to withdraw US troops from Iraq.
The Bush Administration first attacked Rep. Murtha for his Iraq views by associating him with the filmmaker Michael Moore and Representative Jean Schmidt likened him to a coward on the floor of the House of Representatives. When those tactics backfired, Dick Cheney called Murtha "A good man, a marine, a patriot and he's taking a clear stand in an entirely legitimate discussion."
Though the White House has backed off publicly, administration officials have nevertheless recently made calls to military leaders to condemn the congressman. So far they have refused.
Rep. Murtha spent 37 years in the Marine Corps earning a Bronze Star, two Purple Hearts and a Navy Distinguished Service Medal. His service has earned him the respect of the military, and made him a trusted adviser to both Republican and Democratic presidents and leaders of the armed forces.
Unfolding...
Questions About My Record
Rep. John Murtha
This afternoon, CNSNEWS.com published an article entitled "Murtha's War Hero Status Called Into Question" on its website. The article questions the validity of my purple hearts. This is my response:
"Questions about my record are clearly an attempt to distract attention from the real issue, which is that our brave men and women in uniform are dying and being injured every day in the middle of a civil war that can be resolved only by the Iraqis themselves."
"I volunteered for a year's duty in Vietnam. I was out in the field almost every single day. We took heavy casualties in my regiment the year that I was there. In my fitness reports, I was rated No. 1. My record is clear."
www.huffingtonpost.com
Will yesterday's in-your-face decision by Abdul Aziz al-Hakim, Iraq's most influential Shiite leader, to renege on his pledge to amend the new Constitution in a manner acceptable to Sunnis be the shove in the back that sends Iraq over the brink into all-out civil war?
It certainly has that potential.
Before the constitution was put to a vote in October, Sunnis were threatening to boycott the referendum.
The problem? The charter contains provisions that decentralize political power in the country in a way that leaves the vast majority of Iraqi oil under the control of Kurds and Shiites -- and the Sunnis facing an impoverished future. See Juan Cole for more on this.
Desperate to avoid a Sunni boycott, the Bush administration twisted every Shiite arm it could find. U.S. ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad ultimately brokered a last-minute deal that would make it possible for Sunnis to substantially amend the constitution once the newly elected Parliament is seated.
That deal allowed the December elections to proceed -- and the Bush administration to use Sunni participation in those elections as a major PR talking point. (See this bloggingheads.tv debate between Mickey Kaus and Robert Wright about whether there's still a good chance that democracy will catch on in Iraq.)
Indeed, in his town-hall appearance yesterday, the president cited Sunni involvement as evidence of the "remarkable" political progress in Iraq: "In the last election, the rejectionists who had sat out the first couple of elections -- many Sunnis sat out; they said, we're not going to be involved in the political process -- got involved. Slowly but surely, those who were trying to stop the advance of democracy are becoming marginalized."
And, in previous speeches, he has described the agreement to allow changes to the constitution as a key element in keeping the political process moving forward. "Thanks to last-minute changes, including a new procedure for considering amendments to the constitution," he said on the eve of the December vote, "the revised constitution was endorsed by Iraq's largest Sunni party… Sunnis voted in large numbers for the first time. They joined the political process. And by doing so, they reject the violence of the Saddamists and rejectionists. Through hard work and compromise, Iraqis adopted the most progressive, democratic constitution in the Arab world."
Now it is clear that the Shiites were just saying what the Bush administration wanted to hear, never meant it, and never intended to follow through. "We will stop anyone who tries to change the Constitution," said al-Hakim yesterday.
This belligerent stance could easily drive Iraqi Sunnis (in the words of today's New York Times) "into the arms of radical Sunni groups in neighboring lands" and "leave the Shiites even more dependent than they are now on Iran and American troops."
Sounds like a recipe for endless civil war -- and a foreign policy debacle of unimaginable proportions for America.
But, despite this looming disaster, with the exception of the Times' powerful editorial, the mainstream media are giving this major development hardly any play. Even the New York Times has its news story on al-Hakim's statements on page A-10 -- and at the very bottom of the page at that. In the Washington Post, the story appears on A-14, while the Los Angeles Times and USA Today do not cover the story at all! And a LexisNexis search didn't yield a single mention of the story on any of the broadcast or cable news shows.
So the match that could ignite an all-out civil war in Iraq was just lit and the U.S. media can barely muster a yawn.
by Arianna Huffington
www.huffingtonpost.com
Sounds like typical right wing smear and coverups....theyve got it down to an elegant science.
Rep. Murtha spent 37 years in the Marine Corps earning a Bronze Star, two Purple Hearts and a Navy Distinguished Service Medal.
Dick Cheney called Murtha "A good man, a marine, a patriot and he's taking a clear stand in an entirely legitimate discussion."
Thats for public consumption. Privately, administration officials have recently made calls to military leaders to condemn the congressman. So far they have refused.
The present smear attempt against Murtha is quoting an aide to a Republican senator who Murtha ran against, unsuccessfully. Guess who Murtha was able to defeat in a later election? That same aide.
Another of his present detractors is yet another politician that Murtha defeated in an election, back in 1982.
On Friday, Jan. 13, Murtha's congressional communications director provided a copy of a letter from the commandant of the U.S. Marine Corps, citing Murtha's request of Sept. 26, 1967, seeking Purple Hearts.
"The records of this Headquarters show that you are entitled to the Purple Heart and a Gold Star in lieu of a second Purple Heart for wounds received in action against insurgent Communist Guerrilla forces on 22 March and 7 May 1967 in the Republic of Vietnam,"
Of course the actual facts and the readily apparent bias of the persons making these baseless charges won't stop the Republicans. Its utterly shameful how this veteran is being treated by this Administration and its cronys and puppet media outlets.
But if they are ready to mislead a Nation about the need for war, why should we be surprised when they do similarly about a warrior
FK
But, but, but, but ... Bill O'Reilly served in the frat houses of Harvard while others took his place in southeast Asia. Warriors such as O'Reilly have the right to condemn Murtha.
:(
Iraq Soldiers Speak Out Supporting Murtha...
Posted January 14, 2006 02:17 PM
Reuters/Slahaldeen Rasheed
On January 5, 2006, Congressman Murtha held a town hall meeting with Cong. Jim Moran (D-VA 08).
The soldier who asked the first question served in Afghanistan and said that morale among troops is high and that he would gladly serve in Iraq today. His comment was the only one replayed by Fox News the next day.
But the majority of soldiers in attendance spoke out against the current policy. Fox News did not broadcast their remarks.
Here are some excerpts.
John Brumes, Infantry Sgt. US Army:
Everything that the Bush Adminstration told us about that mission in Iraq is absolutely incorrect. Furthermore, I'd like to say ... I came home to no job, no health insurance. Until we take care of this war, we can't take care of the problems that matter like health care.
I've witnessed both ends... Congressman Murtha, I implore you to keep doing what you're doing.
John Powers, Capt. 1st Armored Division, served 12 months in Iraq:
The thing that hits me the most is the accountability. ... Where is the accountability for those men [who took us to war], as well as where is the accountability for Paul Bremmer, who misplaced millions of dollars and claims to keep accountability in the war zone?... I know that if we lost $500 we would be court marshaled. So where is the accountability for this leadership?
Garin Reppenhagen, served as a sniper in Iraq for a year in the First Infantry Division:
My question is also about accountability. The soldiers that you see, Congressman Murtha, at the hospitals... those are my friends. After coming back, being a veteran, my question is why? Why did we go to this war, why the hell did it happen, why are we in this condition. A lot of soldiers are debating whether this war was fraudulent to begin with. And there doesn't seem to be a clear answer. A lot of Americans now are debating the fact over whether or not the war was fraudulent in the first place. How come there hasn't been an investigation on the fraudulent lead up to the war by this Administration?
C-SPAN has the full broadcast here.
C-SPAN link available at www.huffingtonpost.com