17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?

And as far as Seanchai goes for starting this thread, he needs to shut his Irish cracker-ass up and stick to what he knows … like sucking dick for a living.

And on that note, I read the thread where Seanchai threatened to out someone to his wife who didn’t agree with him. Whoop – Tee – Doo, and that’s fucked up of you to do that! You know what Seanchai? Go lay on your back and kick your legs around and whine like the little Irish baby you are because someone didn’t agree with you, and you want white people in America to get along with the stupid niggers here; something you don’t have to deal with in Ireland. I’ve posted my opinions, my links to my YouTube Channel on my opinions, and you can email my wife all you want to if you can track her down. She likes Shemales. Fuck off Seanchai.

Didn't take InHouston long to generously drop the N-bomb.
Why am I not surprised???

FInd some other place to hang, dude. You're toxic.
http://i.imgur.com/d26wx.jpg
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4g2ndO7Lr1qebls2.png

Yeah he obviously didn't read the rules. He's went off the deep-end.
A long overdue ... BAN!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by InHouston

And on that note, I read the thread where Seanchai threatened to out someone to his wife who didn’t agree with him. Whoop – Tee – Doo, and that’s fucked up of you to do that! You know what Seanchai? Go lay on your back and kick your legs around and whine like the little Irish baby you are because someone didn’t agree with you, and you want white people in America to get along with the stupid niggers here; something you don’t have to deal with in Ireland. I’ve posted my opinions, my links to my YouTube Channel on my opinions, and you can email my wife all you want to if you can track her down. She likes Shemales. Fuck off Seanchai.

---

Is it something in that texan water?

Most Racist Moment On A TV Game Show! - YouTube

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by giovanni_hotel

Didn't take InHouston long to generously drop the N-bomb.
Why am I not surprised???

FInd some other place to hang, dude. You're toxic.

---

it never does take them long.....the first sign is usually when they start by saying how non-racist they are. If a person has to declare that as a pillar then guess what - they're racists and bigots in denial. And that applies equally to people of ANY 'race'. I love turning those people out - quite satisfying to watch a person come face to face with their racism.

One of many episodes: I was at a party thrown by one of my 'Christian' relatives who had invited some of his fellow devout God-fearing, loving congregation. I ended up in a room with one of them (a West Indian of European descent) who kept talking about how much he loved my relative because that relative was a 'good' Christian and was civilized. Of course that piqued my interest :) within a half hour this wonderful Christian who loved everybody was ranting about Africa being full of primitives who had never built anything, discovered anything, invented anything, and had therefore contributed nothing to the modern world.

He believed all civilization originated in Greece - he'd never heard of Sumer, Mohenjo Daro, Harrappa, Namu, or even Ur (the city of his prophet Abraham). He'd never heard about the Stele of Hammurabi. He'd never heard of Mithra or Krishna and was shocked to history of his Christ paralleled theirs. He didn't know an Ethiopian king was part of the siege of Troy and didn't know that Troy was an Eastern city far greater than any Greek city of the time. He'd never heard about the huge parts of Grecian culture being derived from the Cretans who in turn had absorbed Egyptian culture into their own. In fact he believed Egypt wasn't 'African' and didn't know there were Nubian pharoahs. In short, not only was he a racist but something even worse - he was a stupid and uneducated racist!

The best part of all though was when he pointed to his black wife and stated he couldn't be racist because he married a black woman! Shits and giggles it was.......eventually he called me the spawn of Satan and ran out of the room. Good times. Job well done.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by seanchai

Yeah he obviously didn't read the rules. He's went off the deep-end.
A long overdue ... BAN!

---

Thanks Seanchai. InHouston was a seriously unpleasant man. This thread was beginning to sound like a Klan revival meeting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by runningdownthatdream

it never does take them long.....the first sign is usually when they start by saying how non-racist they are. If a person has to declare that as a pillar then guess what - they're racists and bigots in denial. And that applies equally to people of ANY 'race'. I love turning those people out - quite satisfying to watch a person come face to face with their racism.

One of many episodes: I was at a party thrown by one of my 'Christian' relatives who had invited some of his fellow devout God-fearing, loving congregation. I ended up in a room with one of them (a West Indian of European descent) who kept talking about how much he loved my relative because that relative was a 'good' Christian and was civilized. Of course that piqued my interest :) within a half hour this wonderful Christian who loved everybody was ranting about Africa being full of primitives who had never built anything, discovered anything, invented anything, and had therefore contributed nothing to the modern world.

He believed all civilization originated in Greece - he'd never heard of Sumer, Mohenjo Daro, Harrappa, Namu, or even Ur (the city of his prophet Abraham). He'd never heard about the Stele of Hammurabi. He'd never heard of Mithra or Krishna and was shocked to history of his Christ paralleled theirs. He didn't know an Ethiopian king was part of the siege of Troy and didn't know that Troy was an Eastern city far greater than any Greek city of the time. He'd never heard about the huge parts of Grecian culture being derived from the Cretans who in turn had absorbed Egyptian culture into their own. In fact he believed Egypt wasn't 'African' and didn't know there were Nubian pharoahs. In short, not only was he a racist but something even worse - he was a stupid and uneducated racist!

The best part of all though was when he pointed to his black wife and stated he couldn't be racist because he married a black woman! Shits and giggles it was.......eventually he called me the spawn of Satan and ran out of the room. Good times. Job well done.

---

:werd:
Been in similar situations to this too.
It's both funny and very sad, but it's always better to know than having to guess.

People are deliberately ignorant and uneducated about so much of the world around them, yet they are the first to speak up about how 'wise' and 'enlightened' they are.

what do you mean it was not illegal?

IT WAS NEGLIGENCE FOR GEORGE ZOMMERMAN TO PROFILE FOLLOW/STALK/PURSUE AND CONFRONT TRAYVON MARTIN A MINOR WHO WAS DOING NOTHING ILLEGAL AND BELONGED IN THAT COMPLEX AND WAS NOT TRESPASSING WHILE ZIMMERMAN WAS CARRYING A CONCEALED LOADED WEAPON AND NOT HAVING ANY AUTHORITY TO QUESTION OR DETAIN TRAYVON MARTIN THERE BY CREATING A DANGEROUS AND HAZARDOUS SCENARIO WHICH COULD RESULT IN

link to that PDF item says: "read the charging document"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/george-zimmerman-to-be-charged-in-trayvon-martin-shooting-law-enforcement-official-says/2012/04/11/gIQAHJ5oAT_story_1.html

They are going for the conviction on the lesser charge, which only requires that the jury agree that Zimmerman acted with criminal negligence when he knowingly pursued Trayvon with a weapon

* despite the warnings from the 911 operator

* despite the standard that legitimate neighborhood watch personnel limit their role to "observe and report"

* despite what Zimmerman, as a student enrolled in in law enforcement training was in a better position to know than most citizens.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hard4janira

You've completely mischaraterized me but that's fine. All I've ever done is mention the utter hypocirsy in the media and general public regarding racism and hate crimes. I'm sick to death of black people getting a pass on racism and hate crimes in the media while stories like Zimmerman and blown way out of proportion and are used by the media as examples of how black people are somehow victims when the real facts are that black people are leaving a vile and brutal path of destruction in thier wake. You can't fool me. All the media lies in the world can't fool me. I know what's happening.



That's probalby true, but then Zimmerman was living in a community that was increasingly becomign a hotbed of criminal activity. And who do you think was committing a disproprotionate amount of crime in that community? Black people of course. If I lived in a community where there was a lot of crime commited by black people I would be FAR more suspicios of you walking down the street in a hoodie than I would be out in the general public or in a community where there was little or no crime. That's just human nature. I'm still astonished as to why black people are indignant about racial profiling. It's almost comical actually. Don't want to be profiled? How about get your shit together and stop commiting crimes... Holy fuck do we really have to have this conversation?



Not necessarily. You may not like the way somebody is talking to you and you are not obligated to respond or answer questions but you certainly don't have the right to assault someobody if they have caused you no physical harm. A verbal confrontation is not illegal and that does not give somebody a right to initiate a physical confrontation (no matter how angry you are).



Agreed.



Zimmerman may have acted unwisely (i.e. following Travon when the dispatcher advised him not to) but that doesn't make him at fault because it isn't illegal. Even if Zimmerman confronted him and they exhanged words, that isn't illegal either and therefore the question of 'fault' is completely irrelevant. The only question that matters is who initiated the physical altercation (that is illegal) and was Zimmerman justified in pulling the trigger? That's all that should matter.

---

WTF!!?????? (Stay on script, George. I'm getting confused.)

http://www.seattlepi.com/news/articl...11-3580679.php



Zimmerman complained about Sanford police in 2011

ORLANDO, Fla. (AP) — George Zimmerman accused the Sanford police department of corruption more than a year before he shot Trayvon Martin, saying at a public forum the agency covered up the beating of a black homeless man by the son of a white officer.
"I would just like to state that the law is written in black and white," Zimmerman said during a 90-second statement to city commissioners at a community forum. "It should not and cannot be enforced in the gray for those who are in the thin blue line."
The forum took place on Jan. 8, 2011, days after a video of the beating went viral on the Internet and then-Sanford Police Chief Brian Tooley was forced to retire. Tooley's department faced criticism for dragging its feet in arresting Justin Collison, the son of a police lieutenant.
"I'd like to know what action the commission is taking in order to repeal Mr. Tooley's pension," Zimmerman said to the commission. "I'm not asking you to repeal his pension; I believe he's already forfeited his pension by his illegal cover-up in corruption in what happened in his department."
Zimmerman's public comments could be important because the Martin family and supporters contend the neighborhood watch volunteer singled Martin out because he was black. Zimmerman has a Peruvian mother and a white father. His supporters have said he is not racist.
The Miami Herald first reported details from the January 2011 community forum Wednesday. The Associated Press obtained a copy of the tape from the meeting.
In the speech, Zimmerman said he witnessed "disgusting" behavior by officers when he was part of a ride-along program, though the agency said it did not know when, if ever, Zimmerman was in that program.
"The officer showed me his favorite hiding spots for taking naps. He explained to me he doesn't carry a long gun in his vehicle because in his words, 'Anything that requires a long gun requires a lot of paperwork and you're gonna find me as far away from it.'"
Zimmerman also said the officer in question "took two lunch breaks and attended a going away party for one of his fellow officers."
Sanford Mayor Jeff Triplett and interim police chief Richard Myers were both unavailable for comment.
Zimmerman is free on bond awaiting his second-degree murder trial for shooting Martin. Martin was walking back to a townhome he was staying at when he got into a fight with Zimmerman, who shot him in the chest at close range.
Zimmerman, who claims the Feb. 26 shooting was self-defense, was initially not arrested. But after protests around the country and an investigation by a state prosecutor, he was charged.
Tooley's successor, Bill Lee, temporarily resigned his post following a no-confidence vote by city commissioners.
Lee offered to resign permanently, but his commissioners turned down his request. He is on paid leave.

I knew about that ABOVE.

different subject below

I HAVE A RECORDING OF THIS INCIDENT

GEORGE ZIMMERMAN IS RUNNING AFTER TRAYVON MARTIN WHILE TRAYVON IS RUNNING AWAY BECAUSE SOME UNKNOWN OLDER MALE IS FOLLOWING/STALKING/PURSUING HIM FOR SOME UNKNOWN REASON.

this is evidence any have not heard and will boost the prosecutions case

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by natina

I knew about that ABOVE.

different subject below

I HAVE A RECORDING OF THIS INCIDENT

GEORGE ZIMMERMAN IS RUNNING AFTER TRAYVON MARTIN WHILE TRAYVON IS RUNNING AWAY BECAUSE SOME UNKNOWN OLDER MALE IS FOLLOWING/STALKING/PURSUING HIM FOR SOME UNKNOWN REASON.

this is evidence any have not heard and will boost the prosecutions case

---

You sound almost as dumb as trayvon was.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by yourdaddy

You sound almost as dumb as trayvon was.

---

Until there is a more official version of this story, I see you as the dumb one. Trayvonn had never been charged with a crime. Nor was there ever any evidence, that he was even contemplating the crime, for which he was pursued. Even if he had smoked weed, for which there is no direct evidence, tens of millions of Americans have admitted doing this. Zimmerman, bears some responsibility in the death. The only question is how much? Do you consider it wise to follow someone at night, while armed? It is reasonable to think that, an average person, seeing someone follow them in the night, would be fearful. Thus whatever Trayvonn's actions were, they could have been within the bounds of reasonable action. So assuming the Trayvonn's actions were stupid, also implies other things, such as certain races of people are stupid. I know that you did not state this directly, but it is implied.

Still, I support your right to free speech. This case raises some important issues, and all sides are needed make progress from this tragedy.

trayvon was a bright kid


zimmerman was a time bomb waiting to go off.

a DA'S pain in the ass as describe by DA Papantonio and TIM WISE

Papantonio: Trayvon Killer Should Be Charged With Premeditated Murder
911 tapes Trayvon Martin Case - He called him Coon! - YouTube

ZIMMERMAN WAS GOING TO GET CHARGE WITH MURDER ONE CAUSE THE DA was sending it to the grand jury

Quote:

---

Zimmerman psychologically wanna be cop profile; He’s like so many other utterly unaccomplished males who fantasize about being a badass law officer, meting out justice to the ne’er-do-wells.

Trayvon Martin, White Denial and the Unacceptable Burden of Blackness in America

By now, you probably know the shameful details, but they are worth repeating, in any event.
On the evening of February 26, George Zimmerman, a self-appointed “neighborhood watch captain” in an Orlando suburb, shot and killed 17-year old Trayvon Martin.
Because Martin was black.
And no, don’t even think of rolling your eyes at the suggestion. That is what happened, just as surely as so many might well be loathe to admit it.
Oh sure, he denies such a motivation, as does his family, but the details of the incident, now emerging from that evening leave very little question about it.
This was not, as we too often hear in the wake of such incidents, “a tragedy.”
This was not, as some would have it, “a terrible accident.”
It was murder, plain and simple. And it would be called such by everyone in a nation that had any commitment to honest language, which, sadly, would pretty much rule out the one in which Martin’s life began and ended, and in which Zimmerman continues to operate as a free man, unarrested by the police.
Trayvon Martin is dead because George Zimmerman believed his neighborhood needed and deserved to be protected from young black men, who could not possibly belong there, in his estimation. Never mind that Martin was in the community with his father, visiting friends. Never mind that Martin was armed only with Skittles and iced tea, while Zimmerman carried a loaded weapon.
Zimmerman, who has a history of aggressive behavior (including assaulting an officer a few years ago), appears to have something of a Dirty Harry syndrome about him. He is someone described by his own neighbors as overzealous,.....

---

http://www.timwise.org/2012/03/trayv...ss-in-america/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by yourdaddy

You sound almost as smart as trayvon was and zimmerman was not.

---

you can not shoot a gun in a fist fight

thats how you go to jail

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by natina

you can not shoot a gun in a fist fight

thats how you go to jail

---

Who says? Only a fool shows up to any fight armed less well than their opponent... just ask the police, military, or even Spider Man in the new previews ("Oh no! You found my weakness, small knives!").

More so... had a gun not been involved, the situation would be very different right now, reversed in fact.

Let's remove the gun from the situation... let's say George Zimmerman was unarmed that night and still decided to pursue Trayvon Martin.

"Nyeh, without a gun Zimmerman wouldn't have had the balls to stalk that poor, unarmed, helpless child."

...bear with me for a moment.

Assuming an unarmed Zimmerman had followed Martin... and Martin reacted as it seems he did, beating the %#(&% out of Zimmerman... then what?

If Martin were to be caught by the police, he would be charged with aggravated assault... and likely just become yet another incarcerated black youth... I wonder if Al Sharpton would have lead a march in that case.

While a 'stand your ground' argument *might* be able to be made for Martins actions... the repeated assault (described by one witness as "MMA style punching"* as I recall) goes well beyond simply defending one's self.

But isn't a gun the same? Nope. A punch is not unlike a stab... or a gunshot... each is a single act and each additional instance carries additional risks, even if the likelihood of successfully removing the thread of force increases.

While multiple punches may remove the threat of an attacker... a line can be quickly crossed into the realm of assault... while just a single gunshot is usually enough to remove the threat (note Zimmerman only fired his weapon once).

I've said it before and I'll say it again... Zimmerman is going to walk... and in all likelihood during the pre-trial part where his side has the chance to prove his self-defense argument. Know what the burden of proof is to prove self-defense? Preponderance of the evidence (ie 50.00001% that the proposition is true)... vs beyond a reasonable doubt... which the prosecution would have to prove during the criminal trial.

*BTW... before you again play the "Nyeh, witnesses are changing their story"... ask yourself... will such a change help or hurt the prosecution?

The correct answer... hurt, quite significantly in fact as it would render moot anything the witness has to say. Why? Because they have demonstrated themselves to be unreliable... even if what they are now saying is 100% factual and beneficial to the prosecution.

The only injuries Zimmerman had from getting his ass kicked were cuts to the back of his head. I don't buy for a minute a 158# teen is capable of inflicting grievous injuries or death with only his fists.
Has anyone ever seen someone take blows to the face in real street fight before??
http://www.newsmanateearchive.com/Mu...20Richetti.jpg
http://www.craigboyce.com/w/wp-conte...ot-336x283.jpg

This is Zimmerman's photo taken the night of the murder at the Sanford police station.

http://theconservativetreehouse.file...4775.jpg?w=640



Which photo doesn't belong??

Eyewitness testimony only matters when it's been given UNDER OATH. If you contradict your previous statement in court, then your credibility takes a hit. If you change the story you gave to a cop or a reporter, it doesn't matter until you do it before a judge.

I had someone give me this scenario in regards to this case for the victim challenged; imagine Zimmerman kept following Travyon back to his father's GF's condo, except none of them were home. Trayvon goes inside and Zimmerman immediately follows him before he can close the front door, assuming that Martin had just broken into someone's residence. Confrontation, altercation, dead teenager. All because Zimmerman wrongly assumed Trayvon had just broken into someone's domicile.


Who would have the right to claim self defense in that scenario?? If you're allowed to whip a stranger's ass for illegally following you into a residence where you're staying, IMO the SYG law holds the same right of self defense for a teen who's being followed by an unknown stranger in his SUV who gets out of his vehicle and chases him down on foot.

For instance, if Zimmerman had stopped his SUV and never gotten out, and Trayvon turned around, walked back to the car window and asked George, 'what the fuck are you following me for?', then suddenly tried to open the door to Zimmerman's car and ended up getting shot dead, that would be fucked up but a more plausible claim of self defense.

THis case IMO won't be dismissed before the trial. The state special prosecutor for the state of Florida has aspirations for the governorship, and I don't think she even takes this case on unless she thinks she can convict Zimmerman on 2nd degree murder/manslaughter.

If Zimmerman hadn't had a gun that night two people would've would've have left the scene with their lives instead of one. You're an stupid idiot to be claiming that's a worse scenario than what actually happened. Guns are designed to kill. You carry one at every body else's risk.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by natina

I knew about that ABOVE.

different subject below

I HAVE A RECORDING OF THIS INCIDENT

GEORGE ZIMMERMAN IS RUNNING AFTER TRAYVON MARTIN WHILE TRAYVON IS RUNNING AWAY BECAUSE SOME UNKNOWN OLDER MALE IS FOLLOWING/STALKING/PURSUING HIM FOR SOME UNKNOWN REASON.

this is evidence any have not heard and will boost the prosecutions case

---

Natina,

You have a recording of it? Like an audio recording?

I think this case will turn on what happened after Zimmerman did after he ended his 911 call. His girlfriend gave her statement. But, she's an interested party. If Trayvon had called 911 and it was recorded, or he reached his girlfriend's voicemail and it was recorded, that would be much stronger evidence.

I'd love to know more about this recording you are talking about. Is there a link to any article discussing this recording? Please post it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by natina

trayvon was a bright kid

---

Please stop. He was anything but a 'bright' kid. Maybe by today's lowly US standards he was bright, but then againg we aren't even in the top 20 countries in education anymore. Trayvon was a doofus and a pedestrian student AT BEST.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by natina

zimmerman was a time bomb waiting to go off.

---

Hyperbole. Makes for good message board fodder though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by natina

Papantonio: Trayvon Killer Should Be Charged With Premeditated Murder

---

Absurd and you know it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by natina

http://www.timwise.org/2012/03/trayv...ss-in-america/

---

The 'burden' of blackness? Are you shitting me? Is this burden the reason half of you act like escaped zoo animals with no regard for the law or other people? Ok, half might be a bit much but you people need to grow the fuck up and take a long look in the mirror. Sorry, truth hurts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by giovanni_hotel

The only injuries Zimmerman had from getting his ass kicked were cuts to the back of his head. I don't buy for a minute a 158# teen is capable of inflicting grievous injuries or death with only his fists.

---

I don't think that your statement is accurate. I've read where emergency workers cleaned Zimmerman up in the police car and noted abbrasions and bruises on his face. They also said he had a broken nose. This isn't Zimmerman saying that his nose was broken, this is the EMT saying that his nose was 'broken'.

Also, if Zimmerman is losing the fight how does he know that Trayvon (the honor student) isn't going to grab an object and finish the job? Maybe Trayvon can't kill him with his fists but if Zimmerman goes unconsious (not impossible) then there is no telling what Trayvon could/would have done. What if Trayvon repeatedly kicked him in the head? That could cause grievous injury. In a fist fight, you can't assume what any outcome is going to be (unless you are Kimbo Slice).

Maybe he should've waited to see if Trayvon actually grabbed an object before he pulled the trigger. We're there any objects in reach at the crime scene. The police did a piss poor job of investigation. Why? Because they took Zimmerman's word that he feared for his life! That may be good enough for supporters of SYG, but no law is just that allows you to kill someone because you were afraid. The criteria should not be that you feared for your life but rather that your life was in fact under threat. The first is just a state of mind any coward might find himself in; the second is an actual state of the physical world.

@giovanni_hotel,

Per the florida statute, deadly force being used in self defense is justified when:

(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or

If Martin in fact was on top of Zimmerman and repeatedly punching him in the face, I would expect that "great bodily harm" is a reasonable concern.

It is clear that Angela Corey does have higher political aspirations... there is an aspect of her charging I cannot get my mind around... I believe the police originally thought negligent manslaughter was the correct charge, while the original prosecutor didn't see anything at all to charge, there is a rather large gap between nothing and second-degree murder.

Does she think she can win a second-degree murder conviction? Perhaps

Would she accept a conviction on a lesser charge or a plea agreement? Probably

Is she trying to use this case to bolster her political ambitions? Absolutely.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trish

If Zimmerman hadn't had a gun that night two people would've would've have left the scene with their lives instead of one. You're an stupid idiot to be claiming that's a worse scenario than what actually happened. Guns are designed to kill. You carry one at every body else's risk.

---

I never said that both men walking away would be a 'worse scenario'... I said "the situation would be very different right now, reversed in fact"... with Martin charged and easily convicted of aggravated assault.

More so... I'm sorry to hear that you aren't a fan of the second amendment, the fact that individuals in this country have long enjoyed the right to carry a firearm for the protection of themselves and their property... something which has long been codified into law as well as been routinely upheld by the courts.

Of course, your opinion on such a thing is irrelevant as millions of people in this county own firearms, many have permits to carry concealed and do... and by some bizarre miracle, we don't have massive gun violence from these legal owners.

Odd that, isn't it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trish

Maybe he should've waited to see if Trayvon actually grabbed an object before he pulled the trigger. We're there any objects in reach at the crime scene. The police did a piss poor job of investigation. Why? Because they took Zimmerman's word that he feared for his life! That may be good enough for supporters of SYG, but no law is just that allows you to kill someone because you were afraid. The criteria should not be that you feared for your life but rather that your life was in fact under threat. The first is just a state of mind any coward might find himself in; the second is an actual state of the physical world.

---

I don't disagree w/ you - you make some valid points. Still, Zimmerman can't assume that Trayvon (or anybody) would necessarily stop beating him under any circumstance. Maybe there was no object nearby for Trayvon to use but that doesn't mean he couldn't have kicked Zimmerman in the head if Zimmerman was unable to continue. Again, I don't know that this is what happened - I'm just saying that people have made assumptions as to the outcome of the fight (given Trayvons age and weight) and it is completely wrong to do so.

Again, it doesn't matter what Zimmerman thought Trayvon might do, it matters what Trayvon did and didn't do and Trayon didn't beat Zimmermann to within one light year of his life, let alone an inch.

Maybe because he was shot... :shrug:

Maybe doesn't cut it. Again, the point is you cannot let people shoot and kill on the basis of a remote maybe.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trish

Maybe doesn't cut it. Again, the point is you cannot let people shoot and kill on the basis of a remote maybe.

---

You realize you are saying that Martin would have to shoot AND hit Zimmerman first before under your system Zimmerman would be able to shoot in self-defense.

By your logic... if Martin saying "I've got a gun!" wouldn't be a threat to Zimmerman because it's only a claim.

By your logic... if Martin were display a gun, it wouldn't be a threat to Zimmerman because it's only being shown.

By your logic... if Martin were point a gun at Zimmerman's little toe, it wouldn't be a threat to Zimmerman because the little toe isn't a vital body part.

By your logic... if Martin were point a gun at Zimmerman's chest, it wouldn't be a threat to Zimmerman because despite being loaded with a round chambered and the safety off... the trigger has not been pulled, so still no direct threat to Zimmerman's life.

By your logic... if Martin were to fire a BB or pellet gun at Zimmerman, it wouldn't be a threat to Zimmerman because neither projectile has enough force or chance of killing Zimmerman.

By your logic... Zimmerman could only shoot in self-defense if he himself had already been terminally wounded by a bullet from Martin... of course, how is Zimmerman to know if he's about to die or not? Maybe he will survive with quick treatment... can he still put the trigger then?

How far down this slippery slope do you really want to go?

I don't buy into the weakness of a 158 lb teenager. Back 42 years ago I wrestled in the 157 lb weight class (weighing 152) and I was 6' 2" at 15 years of age. The kids I wrestled were extremely strong. Many capable of military pressing more than their bodyweight. They could demolish the average adult male.

I don't know what happened, but underestimate the strenght of a teenager at your own peril.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fastingforlife

I don't buy into the weakness of a 158 lb teenager. Back 42 years ago I wrestled in the 157 lb weight class (weighing 152) and I was 6' 2" at 15 years of age. The kids I wrestled were extremely strong. Many capable of military pressing more than their bodyweight. They could demolish the average adult male.

I don't know what happened, but underestimate the strenght of a teenager at your own peril.

---

he was also a football player

Let's get real. No 5'11, 158# kid with only his fists is a 'deadly threat' to a grown man.
At the time Zimmerman outweighed him by almost 40#.

For those of you that still believe Zimmerman's only rational response was to blow a hole through Trayvon's chest, I present you below with a surveillance video of a San Antonio deputy who's house was burglarized while he was at home, and the deputy fought off three unarmed criminals without firing a shot.
One man COMPLETELY in control of the situation without using deadly force, in a state where he had every legal right to grab his service pistol and start firing.

http://www.woai.com/mediacenter/loca...ideoid=3519149

Beyond whether or not Zimmerman was within his rights to use deadly force, or whether he believed Trayvon was about to kill(!) him, I simply cannot respect at all, as a grown man, how Zimmerman handled the situation.

When you decide my bloody nose is worth a kid's life, you become in my mind less than a human being.

If a 190# Black man insinuated he felt his very life was threatened by a 158# unarmed White kid in a fight, and therefore felt the need to shoot him, would the same people be arguing the Black man's fear was justified??

Because the White kid was a football player??? Or because some 158# men in the military are hellraisers??

THere's a level of objectivity IMO many are lacking in this case, and this extreme benefit of the doubt that's being given to Zimmerman I just don't understand.

How many break ins have happened since martin died at that gated community?

Hmmm

I in no way am defending Zimmerman. I think he was out of his mind to carry a gun. His job was to report anything suspicious....that is all. But, do not think that a 17 year old kid, somewhere between 6' 2" ands 6' 3" weighing 158 is not a force to reckon with. As I mentioned earlier, I knew a number of kids in high school who could put a very severe hurting on the average adult male. It does not surprise me one bit that Trayvon was able to kick Zimmerman's ass.

Before steroids and power lifting, what do you think athletes weighed ? Very few ever got over 190 lbs.

Trayvon was 158 lbs of muscle.... I would have given him a very wide berth, if he had crossed my path. Zimmerman would not have been so brave without a gun.

in the recording you can here zimmerman running after Trayvon Martin

you here the confrontation

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Queens Guy

Natina,

You have a recording of it? Like an audio recording?

I think this case will turn on what happened after Zimmerman did after he ended his 911 call. His girlfriend gave her statement. But, she's an interested party. If Trayvon had called 911 and it was recorded, or he reached his girlfriend's voicemail and it was recorded, that would be much stronger evidence.

I'd love to know more about this recording you are talking about. Is there a link to any article discussing this recording? Please post it.

---

“Great bodily harm” is more serious or grave than lacerations, bruises, or abrasions that characterize “bodily harm.” See People v. Costello, 95 Ill. App. 3d 680 (1981).

Quote:

---

By your logic... if Martin saying "I've got a gun!" wouldn't be a threat to Zimmerman because it's only a claim.

---

I see we're now speaking hypothetically. So if the hypothetical Martin said, "I've got a gun!" and the hypothetical Zimmerman shot him dead on the spot, it would obviously not be justifiable homicide. If you can't figure that out for yourself, you shouldn't be allowed to carry a pez dispenser, let alone a gun.

Quote:

---

By your logic... if Martin were display a gun, it wouldn't be a threat to Zimmerman because it's only being shown.

---

Depends on how the hypothetical Martin displayed his weapon. Did he open his jacket and let the hypothetical Zimmerman see it hanging there all shiny and holstered? You do believe in concealed carry don't you? Or perhaps the hypothetical Martin held it handle pinched between thumb and forefinger, barrel pointed down and nowhere near the trigger. If the hypothetical Zimmerman shot and killed Martin simply for displaying his gun and no other reason, then it would not be justifiable homicide. If you can't figure that out for yourself you shouldn't be allowed to carry a toothpick let alone a gun.

Quote:

---

By your logic... if Martin were point a gun at Zimmerman's little toe, it wouldn't be a threat to Zimmerman because the little toe isn't a vital body part.

---

It would be a threat but not necessarily a justifiable reason for homicide. A good reason perhaps to blowout the hypothetical Martin's kneecap, but not a justification for homicide.

Quote:

---

By your logic... if Martin were point a gun at Zimmerman's chest, it wouldn't be a threat to Zimmerman because despite being loaded with a round chambered and the safety off... the trigger has not been pulled, so still no direct threat to Zimmerman's life.

---

Wrong. By my logic deadly force may be justified in this situation. Let's review what you call my logic. The testimony of the shooter as to his state of mind (e.g. claiming, "I was afraid for my life.") is not sufficient evidence that the shooter's life was indeed in danger. The gun on the scene, cocked, with a bullet in the chamber and the testimony that "It was pointed directly at me," counts as evidence of considerably more solidity.

Quote:

---

By your logic... if Martin were to fire a BB or pellet gun at Zimmerman, it wouldn't be a threat to Zimmerman because neither projectile has enough force or chance of killing Zimmerman.

---

If the hypothetical Martin shot BB's from a BB gun at Zimmerman it certainly would not be justification for the hypothetical Zimmerman to use deadly force.

Quote:

---

How far down this slippery slope do you really want to go?

---

By your logic if Martin through a paper airplane at Zimmerman, one sharp pointy paper nose, Zimmerman would be justified in using deadly force to defend himself. How far up that slope do you want to go?

But these are all hypothetical situations. The facts as we know them are that Zimmerman's life was in no way actually threatened. Trayvon didn't say he had a weapon. Trayvon didn't show a weapon. Trayvon didn't point a weapon. Trayvon didn't have a weapon. Zimmerman did. Zimmerman used it. And Trayvon is dead.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fastingforlife

I in no way am defending Zimmerman. I think he was out of his mind to carry a gun. His job was to report anything suspicious....that is all. But, do not think that a 17 year old kid, somewhere between 6' 2" ands 6' 3" weighing 158 is not a force to reckon with. As I mentioned earlier, I knew a number of kids in high school who could put a very severe hurting on the average adult male. It does not surprise me one bit that Trayvon was able to kick Zimmerman's ass.

Before steroids and power lifting, what do you think athletes weighed ? Very few ever got over 190 lbs.

Trayvon was 158 lbs of muscle.... I would have given him a very wide berth, if he had crossed my path. Zimmerman would not have been so brave without a gun.

---

The coroner's report said Trayvon was 5'11. FACT.

A 158# HS athlete, much less a football player, has NEVER been a 'force to be reckoned with' in a fight.

Before steroids and powerlifting, very few athletes got above 190#??lol
When, in the 1940s??

This was a skinny HS kid, the kind of guy who if he's not careful is gonna get his lunch money stolen. He's not even a Division 1 scholarship type athlete in football at his size.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by giovanni_hotel

The coroner's report said Trayvon was 5'11. FACT.

A 158# HS athlete, much less a football player, has NEVER been a 'force to be reckoned with' in a fight.

Before steroids and powerlifting, very few athletes got above 190#??lol
When, in the 1940s??

This was a skinny HS kid, the kind of guy who if he's not careful is gonna get his lunch money stolen. He's not even a Division 1 scholarship type athlete in football at his size.

---

5' 11" is not short. And 158 lbs is not skinny. I wrestled at the 157 lb class in high school, weighing 152, and standing 6' 2" at 15 years old. I could have given Zimmerman a very difficult time at that age. By the time I was 17 I could have killed Zimmerman, and many others his size with my bear hands, never needing a weapon if I had wanted to. However, being a non-violent person, I never would have reacted the way Trayvon did. You can continue to think Trayvon was a weakling. I pass plenty of men Trayvon's size every day walking in Newark. Most could kick my ass today. But, unlike Zimmerman I do not carry a gun, so I am happy to keep a low profile, even if I did see something suspicious.

Look, I was a HS jockhead and IAA college athlete in track and even at 230# it would be hard for me to kill another man by dropping bombs on his face.

Not to diss, but to flippantly suggest a 158# kid has the wherewithal, intent or even ability to kill a grown man with his bare hands is just crap.

The reason you hear of so few cases of one man beating another to death in the news is because for the most part it's almost impossible to do.
The instances of someone Trayvon Martin's size beating someone to death are IMO even more rare.

Even Floyd Mayweather would have to work to kill a man with his bare hands. After assuming this pro boxer would knock out a random in a street fight, he would have to keep pounding on this guy who's unconscious, breaking his own hands in the act, for about five minutes and hope the victim choked on his own blood, or somehow managed to crack this guy's skull with his knuckles. Again, almost impossible to do.

You must think very highly of your fighting skills to think as a 17 year old you could have used just your fists and killed another man who outweighed you by 40#.

I've 'play fought' wrestlers before in HS who I outweighed by 50-60#, and I know those dudes aren't going to box. They're gonna try to choke your ass out or twist your arm off and break it.

Trayvon had no special fighting skills. Just a kid who freaked out because he was being stalked.