An outsider watching the US health care debate

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10-01-2009
techi

Haha, yeah, Grayson on the Republican plan: don't get sick.

Single payer is the best solution, but that can't even be considered in this country because too much of our politicians campaign cash comes from the health insurance industry.
10-01-2009
duplicatt

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Originally Posted by Rogers

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Originally Posted by duplicatt

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Originally Posted by Rogers

Americans' are spending almost twice as much on healthcare as anywhere else in the world.

What do you mean by that? Absolute amount? Per person? Percent of GDP?

It's funny how you've dodged my posts about how the current system is both damaging and corrupting to the medical profession itself, but somehow found the time to reply to that cherry-picked sentence. :wink:

It is a rather simple question. And I note that you don't answer it.

If you can't be bothered to answer the very simplest questions, then why should I pay you any mind?
10-01-2009
duplicatt

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Originally Posted by jaycanuck

Quote:

Originally Posted by duplicatt

I asked you before if you really considered 58% to be pretty good. You never answered.

Sure I'll answer. It's acceptable. I say acceptable because you completely bypassed what I said about our struggle with politicians up here. We demand more taxes be taken off. Why? Because of something else that I already mentioned...and that's that we used to have a BETTER system than the one we already have. Election after election the number 1 issue with Canadians is health care.

I've already mentioned the Harris Gov. of the 90s destroying it. That's why it's at 58%.

For pete's sake Duplicatt, what you aren't getting is that the more money that's put into the system the better the care, the better the care the healthier the nation is. You just don't understand.

Your statement of "Over 83% of Americans have health insurance" is rather misleading. Are you saying that everyone has the ease of paying insurance costs. C'mon D

Here's a quick image from the The American Federation of Labor and Congress of Industrial Organizations based on people buying their own coverage.
http://www.aflcio.org/issues/healthc...s/chart_10.jpg

Is this the only poll? No...but c'mon...i mean you have to realize that there are a large number of people who don't have employee medical coverage and can't afford it (or your statistic...are having a hard time affording it). You can't be that naive.

We can bat statistics and stories around all we want, you just won't get it. It's a shame.

I'd rather be in a system that covers 83% of the people (and we know that some significant percentage of the remaining 17% are eligible for Medicaid but have not applied and so would be covered in case of medical emergency) than a system that covers everyone, but runs out of money for the last 42%.

As for the funding level, if the people of your province truly want to be taxed more to spend more on health care, then you'd vote the rascals who will not do this for you out and put in politicians who will do your bidding.
10-01-2009
jaycanuck

Quote:

Originally Posted by duplicatt

I'd rather be in a system that covers 83% of the people (and we know that some significant percentage of the remaining 17% are eligible for Medicaid but have not applied and so would be covered in case of medical emergency) than a system that covers everyone, but runs out of money for the last 42%.

As for the funding level, if the people of your province truly want to be taxed more to spend more on health care, then you'd vote the rascals who will not do this for you out and put in politicians who will do your bidding.

You just ran over what I said about people having a hard time paying for insurance. Nice. Which brings me back to the universal health care and people not stressing about paying such exorbitant prices for insurance. But again Duplicatt....we can go back and forth until the cows come home. You just won't get the idea of universal healthcare. So....on that note, I'm going to work on my actual work and end the debate.

And as for me voting for said party. I do. I vote for the NDP. But much like your country, politicians are politicians. They lie. I would love for the NDP to be in power. And with the amount of fighting between our 2 main parties I often wonder why they aren't.
10-01-2009
duplicatt

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaycanuck

You just won't get the idea of universal healthcare.

I don't consider a system where 42% of people can't get the procedures they need to be "universal," Jay.
10-01-2009
Rogers

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by duplicatt

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogers

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Originally Posted by duplicatt

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Originally Posted by Rogers

Americans' are spending almost twice as much on healthcare as anywhere else in the world.

What do you mean by that? Absolute amount? Per person? Percent of GDP?

It's funny how you've dodged my posts about how the current system is both damaging and corrupting to the medical profession itself, but somehow found the time to reply to that cherry-picked sentence. :wink:

It is a rather simple question. And I note that you don't answer it.

If you can't be bothered to answer the very simplest questions, then why should I pay you any mind?

Nice editing of my posts again, duplicitous. Pook, pook, pook. It's all three!!! Like I already fucking told you it doesn't matter how you read it.

U.S. Health Spending Breaks From the Pack
http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/20...from-the-pack/

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogers

Anyone can read what I said anyway they like

High standard of possible care + largest population in the Western world + $350 billion to cover paperwork + big profits + bribing politicians to do their dirty work = "Americans' are spending almost twice as much on healthcare as anywhere else in the world".

DUH!!!

Now, you've racked up a large amount of your total posts on this forum on this thread alone. I wouldn't at all be surprised if you actually work for an I.C.. :wink: You seem to be pretty much replying to everyone with an opposing view to your own, yet you still dodged my posts about how the current system is both damaging and corrupting the medical profession itself. Damaging not only the doctor-patient relationship, but creating corrupt and greedy doctors in what is profession prized for it's ethics. If you can't trust a doctor, then who can you trust? This is part of why I mentioned Adam Smith and his "Theory of Moral Sentiments". There are simply some areas where the free-market should not reign.

The following link is the view of just one doctor, but all my medic friends and family are saying EXACTLY the same thing...
http://money.cnn.com/2009/09/24/news...ney_topstories

And the truth is that we only know a fraction of the corruption that is going on because of insurance companies in what is supposed to be a highly ethical profession...
http://www.ct.gov/AG/cwp/view.asp?a=2795&q=414284

The more leeching middle-men you have in any system the more the price goes up. FACT.

*waits to have my post edited by duplicitous again*
10-01-2009
Rogers

2 Attachment(s)

U.S. Health Spending Breaks From the Pack
http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/20...from-the-pack/
10-02-2009
duplicatt

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogers

*waits to have my post edited by duplicitous again*

name calling? How juvenile...
10-03-2009
Rogers

Quote:

Originally Posted by duplicatt

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogers

*waits to have my post edited by duplicitous again*

name calling? How juvenile...

You have CHOOSEN to align yourself with crooks and liars. You also CHOSE to try and play smart with something I said, and you are the one calling me juvenile. Hypocrite much? Now you are QQing about the way I've reacted. I'm sooo impressed. At least I'm not trying to intimidate you with a gun, huh? :wink:
10-03-2009
duplicatt

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogers

Quote:

Originally Posted by duplicatt

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogers

*waits to have my post edited by duplicitous again*

name calling? How juvenile...

You have CHOOSEN to align yourself with crooks and liars. You also CHOSE to try and play smart with something I said, and you are the one calling me juvenile. Hypocrite much? Now you are QQing about the way I've reacted. I'm sooo impressed. At least I'm not trying to intimidate you with a gun, huh? :wink:

I called out the poster that was being rude to your side. If you can't be civil, then there is no use trying to have a discussion.

As for hypocrisy, your side balked when I used Reason Magazine as a source - never mind that it just cited a study. Then you expect me to take Rolling Stone as an unbiased source? "It is to laugh."

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