The FAST Approaching Gun Ban

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Originally Posted by trish

A football coach in Kansas is accosted by five or six irate parents after a game a few days ago. One of the mob lifted his shirt revealing a firearm. They proceeded to punch, kick and beat the coach until the coaches wife fired her gun into the air. The coach then scrambled to his car and retrieved his own gun. Of course ammosexuals are billing this as a case where a couple of good guys with guns saved a man from getting a beating. I just think people are lucky nobody got killed. This is incident is just an example of the fun activities you can look forward to as more and more people carry lethal weapons. I wondering how long before a referee is shot dead in the field.

http://www.kansascity.com/news/state...le2098586.html

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The American dream. Honestly, since when did this country aspire to so little that people would celebrate such brazen stupidity? In an environment like that, how many children will grow up to be scientists or poets or develop a passion for history? How many will become abusive alcoholics?

If your first toy is a replica of a gun and your first field trip is to a gun range and your sweet sixteen is celebrated by firing a gun from a helicopter at a moose, what will you do for your 21st? Drink beer out of a moose carcass? Where does this lead? Pretty soon you find yourself claiming that when a man shoots a woman for knocking on his door it is a learning lesson all around. I have finally reached the age where I can say, "when I grew up, our learning lessons involved books and numbers...literature and algebra respectively." No cretins, no weapon flashing, no moose.

And yes, I am pouring on the liberal snobbery.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9BR...rRc5TxDqSz_Dog

Here is an apparent case where a legal gun owner, Shaneen Allen, with a concealed carry permit, faces a mandatory three year sentence, for crossing into a state that does not have those laws. I know the answer, but I'll ask the question anyway. Where is the NRA and other gun advocates when such things happen to poor people, and people of color? The woman claims to have been robbed twice, in the previous year. When things like this happen, know that it must have been a person of color. Another question, what's with all the mandatory sentencing laws in this country? What about special circumstances? For example this woman, had no criminal record. What about the cost to her two children?

Doing some research, here is a current (9-18-14) article.

http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...rles-c-w-cooke

Follow up from an earlier post. Grand jury declines to indict police, who killed man in Walmart, even though they recognized he committed no crime. Earlier news report said, the victim was shot from the back, by the police.

http://wdtn.com/2014/09/24/walmart-g...ement-at-1130/

Just read this...figured I'd post it. I guess sometimes a firearm does come in handy:
http://nypost.com/2014/09/26/woman-b...r-in-oklahoma/

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Originally Posted by yodajazz

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9BR...rRc5TxDqSz_Dog

... Where is the NRA and other gun advocates when such things happen to poor people, and people of color? The woman claims to have been robbed twice, in the previous year. When things like this happen, know that it must have been a person of color. Another question, what's with all the mandatory sentencing laws in this country? What about special circumstances? For example this woman, had no criminal record. What about the cost to her two children?

Doing some research, here is a current (9-18-14) article.

http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...rles-c-w-cooke

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I think you're attacking some of the wrong people in this case (especially while citing an article an article in "the national review"...what kind of a news organization do you think that is?)

Watch this interview and take notice of who she thanks ...and who she doesn't:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCGf9becqkQ

...glad to see there is finally a good outcome...but it should never have gone this far to begin with.

...and I know this is probably inappropriate to say, but I can't help myself: she's a total cutie pie.

http://nyti.ms/1sDcyyi

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Originally Posted by trish

http://nyti.ms/1sDcyyi

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The nice thing is...I think those stats are starting to take hold. I know at least two people (both LE officers) who just got rid of their firearms after retirement. There was a time when that would be unheard of.

I think I've stated my personal views on this before. I'm not against people having guns depending on their personal situations...but I'm hardly a pro gun nut either. I'll occasionally print stories where a firearm came in handy...because those situations are rare, but in all fairness they do exist.

...but I'm old now, and some of my views have changed...some of them dramatically...and some by folks on this very forum. Unlike lots of people - I actually listen - and there are some excellent debaters here (I'm looking at you Trish ).

My job requires me to have a firearm (I'm not a cop though). I never bring it home. My life style doesn't really allow for it and I have way too many personal vices to make that a safe choice anyway. I honestly couldn't live with myself if I ever shot someone out of sheer stupidity. If I have a weapon after retirement, it will be because of where I chose to live...and it will be a rifle or a shotgun...and it will be locked up.

I've gotten myself out off hairy situations without one...and I would hate to think that I would have unnecessarily drew it when I didn't really need to if I had it on me. At this point in my life I would hate to rely on a concealed weapon when I don't really have to...it becomes a crutch.
I really, really do understand why some folks need one...I just don't want that to be me.

It's bad enough that I have a driver's license...I'm a horrible driver...lol.






....luckily though, I've been told I drive slower than most people's grandmothers.

I think gun ownership is a paradigmatic collective action problem. You have ten people in a room and nobody is armed, everyone is safe. You introduce one gun and nine people feel unsafe. The next person to arm themselves feels much more secure, until everyone has a gun. Now you have ten people and ten guns. Is that room more or less safe than the room with ten people and zero guns?

I know some of you might say that we can't have that gun free room because some guns are already out there. That's true, but there are also police officers and others who might need guns as a necessity who provide some check to those criminals. And more guns equals more volatility and more paranoia that someone else has a gun.

This is even assuming that people are perfect gun owners and can handle them safely...you would still have less collective safety. What is fairly obvious is that most people aren't even safer as individuals when you give them a gun.

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My job requires me to have a firearm (I'm not a cop though). I never bring it home. My life style doesn't really allow for it and I have way too many personal vices to make that a safe choice anyway.

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Okay, now you got me thinking your some sort of hard boiled, noir PI like Easy Rawlins. I can definitely understand that a firearm may be a necessary tool of one’s profession.

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I'm looking at you Trish

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Thanks for the kind words, Fred. I probably mentioned before that I too am the owner of several firearms, hunting rifles to be precise__gifts from my Dad. When I was growing up in rural Pennsylvania he’d take me hunting. We’d go for deer, rabbit, pheasant and turkey. I now live in the Midwest. My guns are in Dads gun safe in Pennsylvania. Until recently we’d hunt together on the few occasions I got home. But it’s not a rural as it used to be and it’s getting harder to find a safe place near home to hunt. Dad’s less interested in the sport these days and I was only interested in the opportunity to share something important with him. He’s seriously thinking of getting rid of his firearms, and he has my permission to sell or turn mine in as well.

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I think gun ownership is a paradigmatic collective action problem. You have ten people in a room and nobody is armed, everyone is safe. You introduce one gun and nine people feel unsafe. The next person to arm themselves feels much more secure, until everyone has a gun. Now you have ten people and ten guns. Is that room more or less safe than the room with ten people and zero guns?

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Nice characterization of the paradox, bronco. Those first few people who armed themselves only feel safer. They aren’t. What they really feel is not safer, but the thrill of power. The thrill of being a dangerous person to mess with. Without the gun, they don’t feel that. The right to play with dangerous toys in the public square is too often the right to put others at mortal risk for the sake of personal vanity.

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Originally Posted by trish

Okay, now you got me thinking your some sort of hard boiled, noir PI like Easy Rawlins.

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That would be so cool. I would give anything to be a PI (with clients).

I just want to emphasize, I think (I hope) when I make snooty comments about guns I am targeting the fetishization of guns...the magical thinking, the sub-culture. Not hunting or even target shooting, but feeling as though the gun is an appendage, that you cannot go anywhere without it and it takes precedence over most things in your life. Nobody is going to admit that it takes precedence over most things in their life, but they do indirectly by how they discuss guns as a public health issue.

Yeah Trish, it probably isn't a collective action problem because the boon to individual safety of having a gun is illusory in all but exceptional cases. As you indicate, it's the feelings of power, control and invulnerability that seduces.

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Originally Posted by broncofan

I think gun ownership is a paradigmatic collective action problem. You have ten people in a room and nobody is armed, everyone is safe. You introduce one gun and nine people feel unsafe. The next person to arm themselves feels much more secure, until everyone has a gun. Now you have ten people and ten guns. Is that room more or less safe than the room with ten people and zero guns?

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I love game theory. But in this scenario, as applied to Americans, 7 out of 10 without guns would have no fear (that's the amount of non-gun ownership), while the other 3 would each average 3 guns apiece (per capita gun rate is 90%). Methinks the 3 who are stockpiling guns in the room, have a wee bit more fear than the other 7.

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Originally Posted by trish

Okay, now you got me thinking your some sort of hard boiled, noir PI like Easy Rawlins.

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Sorry...nothing even remotely so romantic as that....:D

Less than a handful of Ebola cases discovered on U.S. soil and we already have an Ebola Czar. Why not just have the Surgeon General take charge? Oh, that’s right...we don’t a Surgeon General because Obama’s nominee (Dr. Vivek Murthy) can’t get Congressional approval. Why? Because Dr. Murthy suggested there might be greater controls on the ownership of a device that kills more than 30000 American citizens a year. So now we have an Ebola Czar and no Surgeon General because the right wing is afraid of anything that goes bump in the night. Afraid...AFRAID! They need guns, czars and travel restrictions. oooooOOOOooooOOOOOoooooo be afraid...Halloween is around the corner.

Go on, surprise your neighbors - dress up in this costume

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Originally Posted by trish

Less than a handful of Ebola cases discovered on U.S. soil and we already have an Ebola Czar. Why not just have the Surgeon General take charge? Oh, that’s right...we don’t a Surgeon General because Obama’s nominee (Dr. Vivek Murthy) can’t get Congressional approval. Why? Because Dr. Murthy suggested there might be greater controls on the ownership of a device that kills more than 30000 American citizens a year. So now we have an Ebola Czar and no Surgeon General because the right wing is afraid of anything that goes bump in the night. Afraid...AFRAID! They need guns, czars and travel restrictions. oooooOOOOooooOOOOOoooooo be afraid...Halloween is around the corner.

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Canada Attacked - The Gun Law Role & The ‘Terrorism' Question:

Canada Attacked - The Gun Law Role & The ‘Terrorism' Question - YouTube

Chrissy Teigen Not Apologizing for Tweeting About Ottawa Shooting: ''It's Been Awhile Since I Pissed a Ton of People Off'':

http://ca.eonline.com/news/591256/ch...-of-people-off

Rosie O'Donnell on Chrissy Teigen: "Brilliant" To Tie Canada Terror Attack To Gun Violence in America:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vid...n_america.html

Noticed this thread started in May 2012, so when does this fast approaching ban start?

Fast but far away...

I'm telling you, if the Democratic Party could become the Party of Guns, we could get the fucking businessmen profiteers out of the picture and finally get some sane regulations. Freedom has a price. Morons + Freedom = Headlines

I expect to see Hillary packing heat. Don't fuck with us, World.

Several Parsecs?

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Originally Posted by trish

Fast but far away...

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When Prosecutors Align on Guns
http://nyti.ms/1vdaYyJ

some telling statistics to quote the next time some jackass from the NRA says americans need guns to protect against crime....

Here in my city police killed a 12 year old, with a toy (soft air) gun, three days ago. I guess he was too young to have 2nd amendment rights. And too old to be playing with toys. That awkward age, they say sometimes.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...-boy/19471925/

Mother killed with her own gun wielded by her two year old toddler. Will the inanity never end?

http://nyti.ms/1Hfx37T

Yet again negligence by competent, trained gun handlers who respect their weapon leads to shooting:

Police Chief of the Peachtree City Police took his gun to bed and shot his wife. I can only imagine the excuse: Oops! Sorry honey I thought it was my cock, not my Glock. You can't tell me gun fetishists don't get the two confused on a regular basis. It's the whole point of sleeping with your "weapon".

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngu...en/#more-21976

http://gawker.com/ga-police-chief-i-...she-1677143702

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Originally Posted by trish

Yet again negligence by competent, trained gun handlers who respect their weapon leads to shooting:

Police Chief of the Peachtree City Police took his gun to bed and shot his wife. I can only imagine the excuse: Oops! Sorry honey I thought it was my cock, not my Glock. You can't tell me gun fetishists don't get the two confused on a regular basis. It's the whole point of sleeping with your "weapon".

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngu...en/#more-21976

http://gawker.com/ga-police-chief-i-...she-1677143702

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Too many weird questions on this one...
I have huge doubts this was entirely "accidental". Though we may never find out for sure. He may have been drinking ...considering it was New Years...but still. Maybe he did it on purpose then got the 'guiltys' and called.
They were divorced for 15 or so years while he was married to a female Rabbi...too much weirdness...
Nope, not buying it.

"Accidental" shouldn't even be on the table, for any of these sorts of shooting. At the very least it's negligence. But time and time again, a father shoots his daughter, a son shoots his sister, a mother shoots her baby, a toddler shoots his mother, a teenager shoots his foot off... and these are deemed by the authorities as tragic accidents and no one is charged with a damn thing. If someone is shot, at the very least, the owner of the firearm should be charged with criminal negligence (unless of course they're dead).

http://www.minnpost.com/second-opini...-number-states

Gun deaths lead auto-accident deaths in ten States and will soon overtake it in others. If only our founding fathers had the foresight to append the universal right to drive to the bill of rights, gun nuts wouldn't have to face this embarrassing statistic.

C'mon dreamon, enter the conversation...don't just thumbs down people from a distance like a cowardly sniper with a big scope on his little gun. You're really thumbs-downing the reporting of a FACT?:Gun deaths top motor-vehicle deaths in a rising number of states

(http://www.minnpost.com/second-opini...-number-states).

How many times have you shot a gun?

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Originally Posted by dreamon

How many times have you shot a gun?

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Never more than two shots per minute. So if you have a semiautomatic you've got me beat. Now let's see. You thumbed down my post http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/sho...postcount=1269 (the one reporting a report reporting a report asserting
Gun deaths top motor-vehicle deaths in a rising number of states ) because you suspect I lack the gun-handling credentials for making such a post? Perhaps it would be more relevant to ask for the credentials of the statisticians who completed the study. But yeah, I've shot, disassembled, cleaned and reassembled a few guns in my youth... http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/sho...&postcount=391

Can you calculate rate of entropic increase were a 50 grain .22 caliber long to strike a stationary soft target at 1000 ft/sec?

Why don't all guns have external safeties? Who's keeping smart guns off the market?

http://nyti.ms/1Cl1vtY

Another two year old kills himself with a firearm. This time in Florida. His father left him in the car for a moment to do an errand and the boy pulls his a gun out of the glove compartment and ... you know the rest. ( http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/...lorida-n290981 )

As usual there are no charges brought against anyone. Evidently Florida is very liberal in thinking a two year has the right to commit suicide in the privacy of his parent’s car. Some say the parents are suffering enough, there’s no need to punish them more.

It’s not about punishment, it’s about personal responsibility and criminal negligence. If it’s not criminally negligent to leave a loaded gun within reach of a two year old, then these horrid incidents will continue to happen.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/12/31...ld-in-walmart/

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/...254033111.html

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/utah-boy...ar-old-sister/

http://www.ryot.org/5-year-old-boy-s...present/150785

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/01/20/us...-baby-brother/

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...-gun/21062089/

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Originally Posted by trish

Another two year old kills himself with a firearm. This time in Florida. His father left him in the car for a moment to do an errand and the boy pulls his a gun out of the glove compartment and ... you know the rest. ( http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/...lorida-n290981 )

As usual there are no charges brought against anyone. Evidently Florida is very liberal in thinking a two year has the right to commit suicide in the privacy of his parent’s car. Some say the parents are suffering enough, there’s no need to punish them more.

It’s not about punishment, it’s about personal responsibility and criminal negligence. If it’s not criminally negligent to leave a loaded gun within reach of a two year old, then these horrid incidents will continue to happen.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/12/31...ld-in-walmart/

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/...254033111.html

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/utah-boy...ar-old-sister/

http://www.ryot.org/5-year-old-boy-s...present/150785

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/01/20/us...-baby-brother/

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...-gun/21062089/

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It's clear that someone doesn't respect a firearm when they can 'forget' where they left it (honestly, it's the same when someone claims they forgot a weapon in their luggage). Carelessly throwing a loaded firearm in a glove box of a car is ineptitude of a certain level...but forgetting you left it there, especially with a child in the car...that means you don't consider a firearm a dangerous tool to be respected.
People that don't safeguard their weapons shouldn't have guns in any state, regardless of how one feels about the second amendment.

"They've suffered enough already."

That's a good one. I think when they defrocked a few of those pedophile Catholic priests they said the same thing in order to avoid prison sentences.

Hi everygun,

I saw this online and thought you might like to read it.
There are additional links within the text of the original article in the link below.

Babe,
xoxo

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...to_travel.html

"Have Gun, Want To Travel

Do other countries have a constitutional right to bear arms?

By Brian Palmer
December 14, 2010, 4:09 PM

The United Arab Emirates dropped all charges Monday against an American soldier arrested for traveling with gun accessories. It's illegal for foreigners to carry firearms or other weapons paraphernalia into the country without a special permit. Do any foreign states guarantee the right to keep and bear arms like we do in the United States?

Yes. Mexico, Haiti, and Guatemala all enshrine the right to pack heat in their constitutions. Guatemala's Article 38 is the only one that's as broad as our Second Amendment (it guarantees "the right of possession of arms for personal use"). Article 10 of the Mexican constitution and Article 268-1 of Haiti's constitution limit the right to the confines of the home and allow the government to pass laws significantly restricting ownership. Mexicans, for example, are supposed to get a permit, renewable every year, from the military, and all firearms must be registered. (The law is widely ignored. Only 4,300 licenses have been issued for Mexico's 105 million people.) Handguns must be .380 caliber or less, shotguns can't be greater than 12 gauge, and rifles must be .30 caliber or smaller.

A constitutional provision doesn't necessarily guarantee easy access to firearms or a country full of gun enthusiasts. While the United States has 90 guns per 100 people—the highest ownership rate in the world—Mexico has just 15, placing it 22nd among the 59 countries for which data is available.

If you're looking to commune with other gun owners abroad, you might consider traveling to Switzerland, where there are 46 guns per 100 people. The Swiss national legislature could, theoretically, ban gun ownership tomorrow since there's no constitutional guarantee. For now, however, the famously neutral government not only permits gun ownership, but also issues an automatic rifle to every male when he becomes eligible for military service at age 20. Female volunteers are also armed. On Sundays, tourists can see the Swiss head to firing ranges on trains and buses with their rifles resting on their shoulders. The country hosts the world's largest rifle shooting competition in the world every five years. Gun ownership laws have tightened up on handguns and non-military weapons in the last 10 years, but it's still reasonably easy to get a handgun permit.

If you find rifles too tame, you could try Yemen, the second-most heavily armed country in the world with 61 guns per 100 people. (Many observers think that estimate is far too low, and that Yemenis own more weapons than even Americans.) Yemeni tribesmen are known to maintain arsenals of machine guns and hand grenades. The country requires weapons sellers to keep detailed records of their transactions and the buyers' identities, but the laws are completely ignored. Urbanites are supposed to have licenses for their guns (tribal areas have different laws), and the government occasionally goes on enforcement sweeps, but arrests are generally rare even in Sana'a, the capital city.

East Asia is the most restrictive region for gun enthusiasts. Private gun ownership is illegal in Singapore, and Japanese citizens can only get their hands on a shotgun after taking classes and passing written and marksmanship tests. The European state of Luxembourg is also very anti-gun. There's a complete ban there, and the country donated a sculpture of a revolver with its barrel tied in a knot to the United Nations in 1988.

For the most part, countries that permit their citizens to own firearms also allow tourists to bring them in. But don't just box up your flintlock and toss it in with your other luggage. All countries require you to get a permit in advance, and you usually have to get an acknowledgement of legal ownership from your home country. If you skip this step, penalties can be steep. In Mexico, for example, foreigners caught with unlicensed firearms or ammo can spend up to 30 years in prison."

MODS, how come some anonymous cowards are allowed to thumbs down you without leaving their handles? I thinking it's probably the same cowardly little boys who have to carry their guns with them wherever they go. The same little cowards who can't handle the truth or construct an counter-argument on their own. Stick your sore thumbs up your asses, little boys.

Seems Dreamon has something to say, but he's being a bit shy...can only manage a red thumb. Come on sweetie. We're listening.

These iPods should be banned!



A three-year-old American boy has shot his mother and father with the same bullet after pulling a gun from her handbag, police say.
The incident took place in a motel room on Saturday afternoon in Albuquerque in the state of New Mexico.
The toddler was apparently reaching for an iPod.






http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-31082294