17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?

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Originally Posted by jamesedwards

Well I understand your concern, so here's what I have read from the document, but me in particular is not really into the race thing, a teen was shot for no reason that's why I am angry as fuck and how the police handled it and how Zimmerman lied and said he was at his SUV when Tray attacked him and banged his head on the concrete. That's a lie.

So Here's why people are talking about race as an issue.

REPORT SAYS:
Another police report indicated that Zimmerman, who is white and of Hispanic heritage, had called Sanford police on at least four previous occasions while residing in the Retreat at Twin Lakes gated community in Sanford, and in each case the “suspicious person” was a black male.

INVESTIGATION REPORT REVEALS:
“Investigation reveals that on Aug. 4, Aug. 5 and Oct. 6, 2011, and on Feb. 2, 2012, George Zimmerman reported suspicious persons – all young black males – in the Retreat neighborhood to Sanford Police Department,” it said. “According to records checks, all of Zimmerman’s suspicious persons calls while residing in the Retreat neighborhood have identified black males as the subjects.”

So with that what do you think people are going to think? Again Zimmerman is not just Hispanic, he is a mixture.

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Oh if that's true then yeah I agree it seems like he has a problem with African-Americans or judges them only based off the fact that they're African-American...

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Originally Posted by giovanni_hotel

Think, Maddy.

If George Zimmerman was a green polka dotted Korean w/ red stripes on his ass, the fact that he admitted to shooting an unarmed teen through the chest out in public and wasn't charged with a crime for almost two months is where the outrage comes from.

Most people couldn't give a damn about Zimmerman's ethnic background, it's the endemic institutional racism in the criminal justice system that's highlighted by this case is what bystanders are so upset about.

George isn't a 'bad guy' because he's white/hispanic.

He's a piece of shit because Zimmerman murdered a kid in a confrontation he himself initiated.

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Yeah I agree, him shooting Trayon was way out of line..

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Originally Posted by maddygirl

Yeah I agree, him shooting Trayon was way out of line..

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That's why I carry pepperspray anyway.

nancy grace says he said COON AND AGGRESSOR WAS ZIMMERMAN based on the evidence and court rules

Nancy cuts mic of Zimmerman's friend

Nancy cuts mic of Zimmerman's friend - YouTube

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Originally Posted by AmyDaly

If it was my kid, I would feel the same way his parents do. And if I was in zimmermans spot, I would of shot him too. And if I was in treyvons spot, I would of ran my ass on home instead of turning around and attacking him.

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Nice, I like how you tried to play verbal gymnastics but here's the bomb to that last thing that was in THE POLICE DOCUMENTS, not my opinion but this is fact about what was said.

"The police concluded that none of this would have happened if George Zimmerman hadn't gotten out of his car," said attorney Ben Crump. "If George Zimmerman hadn't gotten out of his car, they say it was completely avoidable.

So your double back rhetoric means nothing because now this paints a picture to folk that Trayvon would be alive if Zimmerman wouldn't have gotten out his SUV. Also it paints the wonderful picture that if this is so SELF DEFENSE IS OUT OF THE DAM QUESTION for Mr Z!!! And you claimed the Prosecutors case is looking weak? hahahah blaaaaaaaah lol Yeah ok, I want you to keep thinking just like that.

See that's what I have been saying from the get go I didn't know the police said that, I knew it. I guess that's logic huh Amy? LOL :dead:

http://news.yahoo.com/documents-shed...235341368.html <<<<

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Originally Posted by buds

Fact is, If martin would have not been suspended he would be alive

Fact is, if martins girl thought he couldn't handle the situation SHE sghould have called the cops.

Fact is, martins girl's testimony is here say and nothing more.

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What you have just said was the most IGNORANT BULLSHIT I HAVE SEEN YET!!!

Let me break down your stupidity.

1. Tray would be alive if he wouldn't have gotten suspended you said? SUSPENSION DIDN'T STALK TRAYVON DOWN AND SHOT HIM!!! Zimmerman did!! Him being suspended has absolutely nothing to do with it. That's not even part of the case. Thousands of teen are suspended you're telling me they should be killed because if they didn't get suspended they would be alive? :screwy So that's not a fact because it's not part of the case and he could of visited his father without being suspended that night did the same thing and gotten killed. What you would say then? Oh he shouldn't have visited his father?

2. NOT A FACT THAT YOU SAID Tray's girlfriend is HERESAY!!! Do you even know what HERESAY means in the legal term? LOL obviously do don't. First off FACT she will be in court and her phone call log of docs as evidence, FACT!!!
FACT, they have the phone log of her phone call with Trayvon and she is the last person he talked to!!! FACT, heresay is when one person gets info from another person about something but the person that is telling the story based on info from someone is IS HERESAY!!! Trayvon's girlfriend didn't get that info from anyone she is first hand evidence and talking directly to Trayvon and her testimony will be permitted in a court of law!!

3. You're saying why didn't she call police at the time it was going on? FACT SHE WAS ON THE PHONE WITH TRAY AS IT'S GOING DOWN. Even if she would of called police it would of been to late. She was on the phone with him telling him what to do and she heard voices and the phone went dead!!! Amy got this crazy idea that Trayvon doubled back, stupidiest shit I have heard. Who doubles back ready to fight with a cell phone in their hand, and makes a quote "WHY ARE YOU FOLLOWING ME"? That right there alone shows Zimmerman was following the guy. Again this has nothing to do with the case and this is some side chain emotional opinion bullshit!!!

Fallacious bullshit don't win a dam thing when bad rhetoric is in play trying to make shit smell sweet.

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Originally Posted by buds

"I asked Mr. Martin if the voice calling for help was that of his son," the officer wrote. "Mr. Martin, clearly emotionally impacted by the recording, quietly responded `no."'

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/05/17...#ixzz1vByYUpUW

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The mother, and 2 expert annalist say it was Trayvon's voice. You think the mother word is not as good as the fathers? She held him for 9 months she shold know. Why I go with her? Because she has 2 annalist corroborating what she said, 3 against 1 majority rules. If the experts was on the father side I wouldn't have shit to say, but now you don't have a stool to sit on!!!

ARTICLE:
"The police concluded that none of this would have happened if George Zimmerman hadn't gotten out of his car," said attorney Ben Crump. "If George Zimmerman hadn't gotten out of his car, they say it was completely avoidable. That is the headline."

The release of evidence did little to clear up whose voice is screaming for help in the background of several 911 calls made during the fight.
Since first hearing the calls in early March, Martin's mother, Sybrina Fulton, has been unequivocal in saying that it was her son's voice on the tapes.

But Serino wrote in a report that he played a 911 call for Martin's father, Tracy, in which the screams are heard multiple times.
"I asked Mr. Martin if the voice calling for help was that of his son," the officer wrote. "Mr. Martin, clearly emotionally impacted by the recording, quietly responded 'no.'"

It's funny how Trayvon's mother is said it was her son directly yet Tray's father is being reported by someone that said the police said the father said no. I would have to hear the father say that himself. and if he did say no, his saying no is not more powerful than the mother, and the mother have 2 experts backing her up!!! :)

Now for those that think the prosecution case is falling apart think again, and here's the news!!!

ARTICLE:
Other evidence supports the contention of Martin's parents that Zimmerman was the aggressor.
The investigator who called for Zimmerman's arrest, Christopher Serino, told prosecutors that the fight could have been avoided if Zimmerman had remained in his vehicle and awaited the arrival of law enforcement. He said Zimmerman, after leaving his vehicle, could have identified himself to Martin as a concerned citizen and talked to him instead of confronting him. The report was written on March 13, nearly a month before Zimmerman's eventual arrest.
He said there is no evidence Martin was involved in any criminal activity as he walked from a convenience store to the home of his father's fiancee in the same gated community where Zimmerman lived.
The lawyer for Martin's parents seized on the investigator's recommendation.
"The police concluded that none of this would have happened if George Zimmerman hadn't gotten out of his car," said attorney Ben Crump. "If George Zimmerman hadn't gotten out of his car, they say it was completely avoidable.

Once this is on the table that Zimmerman could of avoided this situation of confrontation and he was the AGGRESSOR, SELF DEFENSE IS OUT THE WINDOW, HE'S GOING TO JAIL!!!

http://news.yahoo.com/documents-shed...235341368.html

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Originally Posted by theoryman

Tuesday night, I was involved in a near miss traffic incident. Both sides partially at fault... him for speeding and my left turn was in an area with partially obstructed vision. Neither vehicle was damaged, just both of us shook up.

After pulling off the road to clear traffic, I got out to check on the other car and driver. He came running down the road toward me, screaming and cussing at me and swinging what turned out to be a socket wrench at me.

When I pulled my gun, it was just amazing how quickly he calmed down. Suddenly, his 23yo 'tough guy punk' attitude in front of his friends didn't mean as much. Fortunately, there were several witnesses to the entire incident. When the deputy showed up, took the witness statements and such, she told the other driver that he was lucky he wasn't shot and asked me if I wished to press charges.

Guns are not the problem.

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This is interesting and probably what we have know way of proving, but I still believe at some point Trayvon and George had separated,( I find it hard to believe in the middle of being pummeled George could get to his 9mm, a situation in which most people at the bottom are either swinging back or using their arms and hands to defend themselves), Zimmerman had the opportunity to pull out his gun.

WHen Zimmerman DID pull out his 9mm, the fight in my mind based on personal experience is OVER. You can take your hardest thug and if you reach on him and he's unarmed, most will 'calm down' within seconds.

I don't think Zimmerman shot Trayvon while he was on top of him. I think the fatal bullet was shot when they were separated.

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Originally Posted by giovanni_hotel

This is interesting and probably what we have know way of proving, but I still believe at some point Trayvon and George had separated,( I find it hard to believe in the middle of being pummeled George could get to his 9mm, a situation in which most people at the bottom are either swinging back or using their arms and hands to defend themselves), Zimmerman had the opportunity to pull out his gun.

WHen Zimmerman DID pull out his 9mm, the fight in my mind based on personal experience is OVER. You can take your hardest thug and if you reach on him and he's unarmed, most will 'calm down' within seconds.

I don't think Zimmerman shot Trayvon while he was on top of him. I think the fatal bullet was shot when they were separated.

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Number of Murders, United States, 2009: 15,241

Number of Murders by Firearms, US, 2009: 9,146

Number of Murders, Britain, 2008*: 648
(Since Britain’s population is 1/5 that of US, this is equivalent to 3,240 US murders)

Number of Murders by firearms, Britain, 2008* 39
(equivalent to 195 US murders)

It's certainly not JUST guns. America for whatever reasons is more violent than some other countries but guns a huge factor:

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/dan-...b_1209967.html

"Gun deaths last year in the UK at 51 were down by 18 percent , yet private gun ownership continues to grow with 1.8 million legally held. Obviously there's no way of telling how many illegal guns are in circulation. But, before you begin yelling for even tighter gun laws, compare this to the annual American bloodbath.http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datab...es?INTCMP=SRCH"

In 2010 there were 12,996 murders in the US. Of those, 8,775 were caused by firearms. But, that figure is small compared to accidental shooting deaths which brings the annual total to more than 30,000.


Cowboys.

Chargers!

The latest.....!

Evidence mixed for Zimmerman's self-defense claim. AP

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...44ed43b71e48e1

From the AP article:


Two acquaintances painted an unflattering picture of Zimmerman in police interviews.

A distraught woman told an investigator that she stays away from Zimmerman because he's racist and because of things he's done to her in the past, but she didn't elaborate on what happened between them.

"I don't at all know who this kid was or anything else. But I know George, and I know that he does not like black people. He would start something. He's very confrontational. It's in his blood. We'll just say that," the unidentified woman says in an audio recording.

A man whose name was deleted from the audio told investigators said he worked with Zimmerman in 2008 for a few months. It wasn't clear which company it was.

The man, who described his heritage as "Middle Eastern," said that when he first started, many employees didn't like him. Zimmerman seized on this, the employee said, and bullied him.

Zimmerman wanted to "get in" with the clique at work so he exaggerated a Middle Eastern accent when talking about the employee, the man said. The employee told investigators that Zimmerman made reference to terrorists and bombings when talking about him.

"It was so immature," said the employee, who ended up writing a letter to management about Zimmerman.

New video of Martin buying Skittles before his murder.
Trayvon Martin&#39;s Pre-Shooting Visit to 7-Eleven Captured on Video - YouTube

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Originally Posted by giovanni_hotel

This is interesting and probably what we have know way of proving, but I still believe at some point Trayvon and George had separated,( I find it hard to believe in the middle of being pummeled George could get to his 9mm, a situation in which most people at the bottom are either swinging back or using their arms and hands to defend themselves), Zimmerman had the opportunity to pull out his gun.

WHen Zimmerman DID pull out his 9mm, the fight in my mind based on personal experience is OVER. You can take your hardest thug and if you reach on him and he's unarmed, most will 'calm down' within seconds.

I don't think Zimmerman shot Trayvon while he was on top of him. I think the fatal bullet was shot when they were separated.

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I disagree with you on your first point. While Zimmerman certainly wouldn't have ignored punches coming from Trayvon, I think he could have held Trayvon off with his left hand/arm while reaching for the gun with his right hand. That would have been my instinct if I was losing the fight.

As far the shot going off when they were separated, you may be right, but they couldn't have been separated by all that much. The autopsy report says the wound was from an 'intermediate' distance, which in their terms is between 1 and 18 inches away. Distances are either 'contact', less than 1 inch, 'intermediate', 1-18 inches, or 'distant', greater than 18 inches.

Unfortunately, the angle of the shot has not been reported. So, we don't know if that fits with Zimmerman's story or not.

As a comparison, if you were carrying pepper spray and you were getting attacked, I think your instinct would be to hold off the attacker the best you could with one arm, and reach for the pepper spray so you could spray it into his eyes and stop the fight.

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Originally Posted by natina

nancy grace says he said COON AND AGGRESSOR WAS ZIMMERMAN based on the evidence and court rules

Nancy cuts mic of Zimmerman's friend

Nancy cuts mic of Zimmerman's friend - YouTube

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I've listened to that tape over and over, and I heard nothing of the kind.

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Originally Posted by theoryman

Contributing to thread drift....

If you 'trespass' into my home and you don't surrender on demand, you will die.

If you attack or assault my wife or I, in or out of our home, and you don't surrender on demand, you will die.

If you threaten my wife or I, in person, we will attempt to move away from you to ease the situation if possible. If you pursue us, and you don't surrender on demand, you will die.

Oh, and yes... my property is worth much more to me than your life is. Remember that if you try to take it.

I have pulled my gun with intent three times in 20 years. 12 years ago, 7 years ago and Tuesday night.

Tuesday night, I was involved in a near miss traffic incident. Both sides partially at fault... him for speeding and my left turn was in an area with partially obstructed vision. Neither vehicle was damaged, just both of us shook up.

After pulling off the road to clear traffic, I got out to check on the other car and driver. He came running down the road toward me, screaming and cussing at me and swinging what turned out to be a socket wrench at me.

When I pulled my gun, it was just amazing how quickly he calmed down. Suddenly, his 23yo 'tough guy punk' attitude in front of his friends didn't mean as much. Fortunately, there were several witnesses to the entire incident. When the deputy showed up, took the witness statements and such, she told the other driver that he was lucky he wasn't shot and asked me if I wished to press charges.

Guns are not the problem.

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Excellent post! I’ve had to draw my weapon a couple of times on people half my age who feel they can maraud around and victimize citizens. One night at 1:00 am I was showing my girlfriend at the time my house I grew up in. As I turned into the neighborhood, a car behind me blacked out their lights, maneuvered to my driver’s side and tried to force me over. I saw a gang of Hispanics with shaved heads with all their eyes locked on me. I flung my Glock .45 out the window and blinded them with my 300 lumen tactical light. All I heard was “Get the fuck outta here foo, he got a gun!” They punched it passed me, and I made a swift U-turn to put distance between them and I. In my rearview mirror, I saw them crash into the curb and run up on the grass. My gun diffused that situation without firing a shot, and it was over in mere seconds. I can only imagine what would have happened to me and my girlfriend if I didn’t have a gun.

My older brother is poor because he’s a welder and can’t afford to live in a nice neighborhood. He often works night shifts, and was walking through the parking lot of his apartment, and looked over at a group of gang members partying and carrying on in the parking lot. One of them yelled out, “What the fuck you lookin at homes?” My brother said nothing, and just kept heading over to his apartment. 10 of them followed him saying “Let get this bitch”, and my brother made his way to the top of his staircase, spun around and pulled a 357 magnum on them and warned them all to get back. As they retreated they warned him they were going to get him. He called me at 3:00 am, and I stood in his apartment at the window with a .223 assault rifle and stood guard while he unpacked his apartment and moved out that night. He was understandably very angry and upset, because he just wanted to go to sleep and ended up having to stuff everything he owns into his car and abandon his apartment; simply for looking over at someone.

One night I was sitting at a taco stand, all by my lonesome at 9:00 pm, and I watched a suspicious looking person approach my truck from 50 yards down the street, and walked right up to my window. As he neared my truck, I saw him put his right hand in his pocket, look around to see if no one was looking, and when he looked backed at me at my window he had a Glock pointed in his face. Tis tis … he was too slow on the draw, and I told him to get the fuck away from me before I blow his head clean off. Did I over-react? I don’t think so. As I was getting my tacos, he gathered up four of his buddies and they were all throwing gang signs at me from the corner. I pulled my gun again, stood in front of the taco stand, said nothing, stared them down, and they all politely walked away.

The thugs in this country have lost their god-damned minds.

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Originally Posted by InHouston

The thugs in this country have lost their god-damned minds.

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Yes YOU have. You seem no different. You seem to have a thug mentality.

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Originally Posted by jamesedwards

For people that supports Zimmerman here's the million dollar comment I will make.
You sit here and try to logically show Zimmerman was right in doing what he did and that is he shot and killed an unarmed man.

For you supporters who support him, HOW WOULD YOU REACT IF HE KILLED YOUR CHILD IN THE SAME INCIDENT WITHOUT NOTHING CHANGING AS HE DID TRAYVON?

I know if it was me it wouldn't sit well as roses I would be one angry motha fucka!!!

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If you're hanging around with a hoodie on your head, and loitering around in front of people's houses in a crime-ridden community, you're going to make those citizens nervous because you look and are acting like a lookout. First off, don't take off running because that's what criminals do, and two, don't jump on someone and start beating them up for asking "What are you doing here?" If you look and are not acting right, citizens have the right to confront you to see who you are and what you're doing. Zimmerman already had the call to the police, so he wasn't hunting Treyvon down.

Anyway ... Treyvon's mom should have taught her son not to hang around in the neighborhood looking and acting suspiciously, and draw attention to himself from citizens; especially a Neighborhood Watch Captain. In case you people don't know your American History, that is how the first police department was formed. Citizens had to fend for themselves and keep watch on their own neighborhoods, until crime spiraled out of their control, and the first police department was formed in New York City.

Zimmerman will walk from this case.

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Originally Posted by AmyDaly

If it was my kid, I would feel the same way his parents do. And if I was in zimmermans spot, I would of shot him too. And if I was in treyvons spot, I would of ran my ass on home instead of turning around and attacking him.

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Good point! Treyvon should have never taken off running. Zimmerman wasn't trying to rob him. All he had to say was "Hey man I live here. I'll wait for the police and we can talk this out with them", and he would still be alive. Treyvon acted like a little thug is what he did.

Unfortunately, there are parts of Houston that are basically an urban warzone. Everyone of those scenarios sounds plausible to me. People get murdered in this country all the time over bullshit they didn't even try to start. Someone was just looking for someone to fuck with.

I have a sick feeling if InHouston's bro didn't leave his apartment, someone would have tried to take him out just to save face with their homies.

But all those situations I can sympathize with InHouston even though I don't own a gun. A mature gun owner first uses his firearm as a DETERRENT to prevent greater violence, they don't start blazing then try to figure out what happened after the fact.

I don't like the way theoryman keeps saying '...., you will die,' like he doesn't give a fuck about the possibility of taking another human life. And there are some things hypothetically I wouldn't draw on someone over, or shoot to kill. In every instance 'my property' isn't worth a human life. I would say rarely if ever.

If you live in an area with active gangs, I feel for you because they really don't need a reason to bring some shit your way.

You say what Trayvon should of done InHOuston because you have a piece. If Trayvon was able to legally carry, I doubt he runs either.

But from the 7-11 surveillance video, Martin looks nervous to me even being out at night in a neighborhood he's unfamiliar. No person in their right mind follows the 'authority' of some stranger who IMO looks gang affiliated in the middle of the night who's been following them for three blocks.

Just the same way you made a read on some dude who was approaching your car with his hand down his pants, Trayvon had to decide whether or not this stranger was out to do him harm, or was just a responsible, concerned adult who wanted to know what he was doing in the neighborhood.

Even the Sanford detective on this case said Zimmerman could have defused this entire situation by announcing 'I'm a member of the neighborhood watch and was curious to know who you were?', instead of telling Trayvon, 'what are you doing here,' after following him for several minutes.

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Originally Posted by theoryman

Contributing to thread drift....

If you 'trespass' into my home and you don't surrender on demand, you will die.

If you attack or assault my wife or I, in or out of our home, and you don't surrender on demand, you will die.

If you threaten my wife or I, in person, we will attempt to move away from you to ease the situation if possible. If you pursue us, and you don't surrender on demand, you will die.

Oh, and yes... my property is worth much more to me than your life is. Remember that if you try to take it.

I have pulled my gun with intent three times in 20 years. 12 years ago, 7 years ago and Tuesday night.

Tuesday night, I was involved in a near miss traffic incident. Both sides partially at fault... him for speeding and my left turn was in an area with partially obstructed vision. Neither vehicle was damaged, just both of us shook up.

After pulling off the road to clear traffic, I got out to check on the other car and driver. He came running down the road toward me, screaming and cussing at me and swinging what turned out to be a socket wrench at me.

When I pulled my gun, it was just amazing how quickly he calmed down. Suddenly, his 23yo 'tough guy punk' attitude in front of his friends didn't mean as much. Fortunately, there were several witnesses to the entire incident. When the deputy showed up, took the witness statements and such, she told the other driver that he was lucky he wasn't shot and asked me if I wished to press charges.

Guns are not the problem.

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If you have decided in advance of it happening, that an intruder in your home is going to be killed, isn't that killing someone with 'malice aforethought' or 'pre-meditated murder' rather than self-defence? If the intruder is breaking the law by illegally entering your property, and I assume that can mean breaking in through the kitchen or stepping on to your front lawn, why kill the intruder if you can disable him -or her- until the police arrive to make an arrest?

It is the lack of respect for human life that you exhibit which I find disturbing; there are many ways of arresting someone suspected of a crime, announcing in advance your intention to murder someone doesn't sound like self-defence to me. Would you replace a Beware of the Dog sign with a One More Step and You Are Dead?

As for Zimmerman, as I said before, whats the point of having a Neighbourhood Watch volunteer if he doesn't know the neighbours?

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Originally Posted by robertlouis

Just a reflection from far away, but if this thread with all the endless speculation is in any way representative, it's hard to see how anyone in this situation can get a fair trial. Jury selection could go on for weeks.

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You are correct.

And if they do happen to find a jury pool that has truly not heard anything about the case, that does not say much for the jury. It would basically mean the individual neither reads or keeps abreast of current events. (Unless they have been out of the country or "living off the grid").

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Originally Posted by seanchai

Number of Murders, United States, 2009: 15,241

Number of Murders by Firearms, US, 2009: 9,146

Number of Murders, Britain, 2008*: 648
(Since Britain’s population is 1/5 that of US, this is equivalent to 3,240 US murders)

Number of Murders by firearms, Britain, 2008* 39
(equivalent to 195 US murders)

It's certainly not JUST guns. America for whatever reasons is more violent than some other countries but guns a huge factor:

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/dan-...b_1209967.html

"Gun deaths last year in the UK at 51 were down by 18 percent , yet private gun ownership continues to grow with 1.8 million legally held. Obviously there's no way of telling how many illegal guns are in circulation. But, before you begin yelling for even tighter gun laws, compare this to the annual American bloodbath.http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datab...es?INTCMP=SRCH"

In 2010 there were 12,996 murders in the US. Of those, 8,775 were caused by firearms. But, that figure is small compared to accidental shooting deaths which brings the annual total to more than 30,000.


Cowboys.

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Cowboys? It's the thug culture that has taken over in this country. You seem to forget that we border Mexico where cartels are delivering tons of drugs and distributing those drugs all over this nation. And the post-pubescent minority brats in our society are more than happy to help them out for quick cash. There is a major crime epidemic in this country and it is not because of guns. It is because of drugs, and the thug culture who embraces the idea that going to prison is a badge of honor, and the more violent you are, the more upward-mobile you will be in your local gang.

That’s the reality Seanchai. The black and Hispanic community is causing these problems in in the working class communities of America. They know it, and they’ll never admit it. Every time someone stands up to them, the minority community flings out the “race card”, when they’re the ones causing and exasperating the problem.

I like black people. In fact, my wife and I were at our neighbor’s eating crawfish with black neighbors of ours last night. We had no problems, and we enjoyed their company, because they work for a living. One is a nurse, and one is a waitress. They hate what they’re own people are doing, and were bitching about it for hours on end.

Now, call it what you will. All I sat and listened to for hours from these black neighbors of mine who cooked 100 pounds of crawfish, was those black people complaining endlessly about “All the stupid niggas around here who don’t know how to act.” And it’s fucking true. They don’t, and they do it daily.

They’re words, from black people, and from them … not mine. That’s the reality. I watch them every day, going up and down the streets and in our local stores, acting fucking stupid, bobbing around, lipping off to people, starting shit, car-jacking and robbing people in their homes, and all the stupid liberals stand up and say “It’s the man”. Bullshit!

We didn’t do shit to them. They’re always fucking with everyone around them, and starting altercations with people, talking shit, acting like complete assholes everywhere they go, shooting at cops on a daily basis now, and somehow it’s the white communities’ fault.

That’s their fucking problem.

One day, I awoke at 8:00 am to find a black guy lurking around in my backyard. He wanted to break in, but my bars, unbeknownst to him, saved his life. He was about to hop my fence and break into my neighbor’s house behind me; an elderly black couple with no guns and no way to defend themselves. I cracked 5 gunshots over his head and sent him off running. I went to my neighbor’s house behind me and told him what happened. He’s black, and a retired engineer and he asked me quote unquote, “Let me ask you a question. Was it one of those stupid-ass niggers down the street in those Section-8 apartments?”

It is what it is.

Don’t believe me? Listen to the litany of complaints from their own people.

http://youtu.be/f3PJF0YE-x4

Now you notice, in Chris Rock's audience, no one is getting angry and most of them are black and laughing and agreeing with them. They know what they're people are doing to this country.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by giovanni_hotel

Unfortunately, there are parts of Houston that are basically an urban warzone. Everyone of those scenarios sounds plausible to me. People get murdered in this country all the time over bullshit they didn't even try to start. Someone was just looking for someone to fuck with.

I have a sick feeling if InHouston's bro didn't leave his apartment, someone would have tried to take him out just to save face with their homies.

But all those situations I can sympathize with InHouston even though I don't own a gun. A mature gun owner first uses his firearm as a DETERRENT to prevent greater violence, they don't start blazing then try to figure out what happened after the fact.

I don't like the way theoryman keeps saying '...., you will die,' like he doesn't give a fuck about the possibility of taking another human life. And there are some things hypothetically I wouldn't draw on someone over, or shoot to kill. In every instance 'my property' isn't worth a human life. I would say rarely if ever.

If you live in an area with active gangs, I feel for you because they really don't need a reason to bring some shit your way.

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My property is worth more than a human life for one reason and one reason alone. They value my property over my life, and will kill me so I don't testify against them for my wallet. Therefore, you don't mean shit to me. If you're going to shoot my family and I for our property, and I will gladly kill, pile the bodies in the grass, and wash the blood stains off my driveway while the police are showing up.

Criminals in this country have lost their god-damned minds.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stavros

If you have decided in advance of it happening, that an intruder in your home is going to be killed, isn't that killing someone with 'malice aforethought' or 'pre-meditated murder' rather than self-defence? If the intruder is breaking the law by illegally entering your property, and I assume that can mean breaking in through the kitchen or stepping on to your front lawn, why kill the intruder if you can disable him -or her- until the police arrive to make an arrest?

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I understand why you would think this was,but no.

Between taking weapons carry classes taught by my local Sheriffs Dept., and serving 4 years in the Marines, I learned one of the most important responsibilities of being armed is having a plan in advance. There is no way to train otherwise. Do you really want un-trained people (such as Zimmerman) running around with no idea how they should react in a situation making judgments on pure adrenaline?

In a high-stress situation it's good to be able to fall back on training and "muscle memory". Basically, if you make the decision to be armed, you owe it to yourself and the rest of society to consider any situations that might arise and how you should react beforehand.

I also don't think you have very much understanding of firearms if you think you can just "disable" someone. You either use deadly force or you don't. Period. It's not like the movies. It's not as easy as James Bond makes it look.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by InHouston

My property is worth more than a human life for one reason and one reason alone. They value my property over my life, and will kill me so I don't testify against them for my wallet. Therefore, you don't mean shit to me. If you're going to shoot my family and I for our property, and I will gladly kill, pile the bodies in the grass, and wash the blood stains off my driveway while the police are showing up.

Criminals in this country have lost their god-damned minds.

---

If it's that bad where you live, you should try to relocate. You sound pathological.

And it's a shame that you associate criminal behavior with RACE or ETHNICITY, and don't take any other factors into consideration, such as education, environment and socioeconomic background.

Any Black person who wholesale trashes ALL Black people by not making any distinction and uses racial epithets on top of it all, I wouldn't quote as speaking for truth in the Black community.


Be specific so you don't sound like a racist. Unless you don't give a fuck.
There is a criminal underclass in the Black/Hispanic/ and OMG the White community as well.

If you live in a major metropolitan area, the former two groups probably affect you more.

And Chris Rock is criticizing and element within the Black community, he's not generalizing ALL Black people, which is what you do InHouston by being too non-specific.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by giovanni_hotel

If it's that bad where you live, you should try to relocate. You sound pathological.

And it's a shame that you associate criminal behavior with RACE or ETHNICITY, and don't take any other factors into consideration, such as education, environment and socioeconomic background.

Any Black person who wholesale trashes ALL Black people by not making any distinction and uses racial epithets on top of it all, I wouldn't quote as speaking for truth in the Black community.


Be specific so you don't sound like a racist. Unless you don't give a fuck.
There is a criminal underclass in the Black/Hispanic/ and OMG the White community as well.

If you live in a major metropolitan area, the former two groups probably affect you more.

And Chris Rock is criticizing and element within the Black community, he's not generalizing ALL Black people, which is what you do InHouston by being too non-specific.

---

You're right, giovanni, every race has their problems and nobody can associate a whole race of people with criminal activity because that's just the wrong. The problem I have is that it seems like society is more tolerant with black people acting racist towards white people than white people acting that way towards black people. That's what upsets me. I've seen it time and time again and it's just wrong. Just because someone is black doesn't give them the right to act racist, I don't care what anyone says. If people really want racism to cease they need to stop acting racist.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by seanchai

Yes YOU have. You seem no different. You seem to have a thug mentality.

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Hey Seanchai?

I’m a paying member of your site, and have been for over a decade, and I’m about gnat’s-ass from terminating my membership with you. I’m lining your pocket with my own money. I’m the one who years ago, wrote your staff a personal message requesting you to tear down your Bush-bashing propaganda on your site because I didn’t want to see it, and you did it out of customer appreciation; which I appreciated and decided to remain a member. Remember me? That was me who wrote that request years ago.

You think I’m a thug? I’m your customer. This is a video I compiled in defense of black people who earned their freedom when they were given the right to bear arms against their oppressors in the South. We did not start the slave problem here in America. Native Africans kidnapped their own people from villages, held them in slave fortresses on the coast of Africa and sold them off to the Spanish Slave Ships of Spain. Black and brown people brought slavery to South and North America out of greed. We didn’t! White people had nothing to do with it. We inherited this awful system of slavery, and the civil war in America ended it with scores of dead Americans, black and white, laying and rotting in the fields for freedom! We are the only country that took a stand on enslaving innocent men, women, and children, and even armed slaves on the run from the South to fight against their masters who Lincoln personally credited black people with “turning the tide of the war”.

http://youtu.be/glwAIS73QpU

Black people in this nation have lost their damned minds. I saw this video on the Africa Channel, from a country whose mothers personally strap their babies to their backs and carry them all day long so they’re kids won’t endure the anxiety of separation from a mother’s bond during their formative years. In America, all the music you hear is from brats who talk about shooting, killing, robbing, and defending their hood; something they don’t even personally own. In Africa, they write rich music about family and harmony. In this video, the artist is singing in his native African language about “Peace in the family, when there’s peace in your heart.” Black people in this nation should go back to their roots and learn from their own people who have been mowed down in the streets by the hundreds of thousands with machetes, simply because they belonged to a different tribe. I’ve worked with Native Africans who lived in mud-huts in Africa. They are the most intelligent, and well-balanced and polite people you could meet, because they grew up with strong family bonds. The black youth here in America, because of this welfare state they live under, are completely imbalanced and out of control. That is not America’s fault. That is the fault of the families they were raised in.

http://youtu.be/CW-13_XoKMc

Are you serious? Houston Trayvon as it has been explain wasn't DOING ANYTHING CRIMINALLY!!! He was just returning from the store. The investigator said he had a right to be there, where are you getting this he's looking suspicious? you're telling me a person don't have the right to run they must walk at all times? This sounds just as ridiculous as Geraldo saying he shouldn't have worn a hoodie, that shit is insanity. Someone here even made a stupid remark about "IF TRAY WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN SUSPENDED HE WOULD BE ALIVE" what type of logical thinking is that? What does that have to do with the dam case?

He wasn't loitering, DO YOU KNOW THE DEFINITION OF LOITERING? He HAD A PURPOSE THERE, HIS FATHER LIVED THERE!!! He ducked for rain shelter as we have all done in our life, is that a crime? Hell no. You people tend to forget that. Giovanni put up a link and it says:

"He said there is no evidence Martin was involved in any criminal activity as he walked from a convenience store to the home of his father's fiance in the same gated community where Zimmerman lived."

So again WHERE DOES YOUR SUSPICIOUS OUTPUT COME FROM? Curtis Silva head of the Guardian Angels said it best "ZIMMERMAN IN HIS PARANOID MIND", Zimmerman was delusional at best, on a serious mission to catch someone.

Why isn't any of you on Zimmerman side taking account and I am sick of even myself having to state over and over. The neighborhood watch rules are 1. Don't carry a weapon 2. Don't engage anyone call 911. Zimmerman the self proclaimed captain BROKE BOTH!!!

Now new reports of a woman calling Zimmerman a racist, and a co-worker saying Zimmerman was acting a fool with him. This coincides with Zimmerman assaulting police and having two counts yet he is freed? WTF Is really going on here. The police in NYC is killing men for less, and ironically they are mostly African american and Hispanic people WITHOUT WEAPONS. So here's a man who got the chance to assault police and not do any time? What the hell is going on here? The man has a violent past that is a FACT. it's no my opinion on the matter.

It's funny the damming evidence piling up on Zimmerman but yet people are saying the prosecutors case is diminishing, that is the craziest shit I am seeing. Investergators know if Zimmerman would of stayed in his car Tray would be alive. When the dispatcher asked Zimmerman where would he be so he could point the cops in Tray's direction they asked him to wait at the mailbox, at first Zimm agreed then he flipped and said "UMMUMM HAVE THEM CALL ME" WTF!!! That lets me know he was basically saying fuck the police I am going after this guy. How do I equate that? Because Zimm said this himself on tape "THEY ALWAYS GET AWAY". Bammm! He has it fixed in his mind to get that person.

And you say Trayvon moms should have taught him.... WTF are you talking about? She don't even live there, and Trayvon has a right to walk just like anyone else to his father's house. No one thought this type of crazy shit would happen. Who knew Captain Crazy was carrying a fucking loaded weapon? Who did Zimm let know he was carrying? No one knew that shit, Zimmerman is a vigilante paranoid delusional motha fucka!!!

You seem to think Zimmerman is going to walk? Wow. Ok, we shall see

Quote:

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Originally Posted by InHouston

Anyway ... Treyvon's mom should have taught her son not to hang around in the neighborhood looking and acting suspiciously, and draw attention to himself from citizens; especially a Neighborhood Watch Captain. In case you people don't know your American History, that is how the first police department was formed. Citizens had to fend for themselves and keep watch on their own neighborhoods, until crime spiraled out of their control, and the first police department was formed in New York City.

Zimmerman will walk from this case.

---

In case you didn't notice, did you notice how the music of Baaba Maal, an artist from Africa, is much more rich in content and message and harmoney than the trash you hear in America from the Black Community?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jamesedwards

Are you serious? Houston Trayvon as it has been explain wasn't DOING ANYTHING CRIMINALLY!!! He was just returning from the store. The investigator said he had a right to be there, where are you getting this he's looking suspicious? you're telling me a person don't have the right to run they must walk at all times? This sounds just as ridiculous as Geraldo saying he shouldn't have worn a hoodie, that shit is insanity. Someone here even made a stupid remark about "IF TRAY WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN SUSPENDED HE WOULD BE ALIVE" what type of logical thinking is that? What does that have to do with the dam case?

He wasn't loitering, DO YOU KNOW THE DEFINITION OF LOITERING? He HAD A PURPOSE THERE, HIS FATHER LIVED THERE!!! He ducked for rain shelter as we have all done in our life, is that a crime? Hell no. You people tend to forget that. Giovanni put up a link and it says:

"He said there is no evidence Martin was involved in any criminal activity as he walked from a convenience store to the home of his father's fiance in the same gated community where Zimmerman lived."

So again WHERE DOES YOUR SUSPICIOUS OUTPUT COME FROM? Curtis Silva head of the Guardian Angels said it best "ZIMMERMAN IN HIS PARANOID MIND", Zimmerman was delusional at best, on a serious mission to catch someone.

Why isn't any of you on Zimmerman side taking account and I am sick of even myself having to state over and over. The neighborhood watch rules are 1. Don't carry a weapon 2. Don't engage anyone call 911. Zimmerman the self proclaimed captain BROKE BOTH!!!

Now new reports of a woman calling Zimmerman a racist, and a co-worker saying Zimmerman was acting a fool with him. This coincides with Zimmerman assaulting police and having two counts yet he is freed? WTF Is really going on here. The police in NYC is killing men for less, and ironically they are mostly African american and Hispanic people WITHOUT WEAPONS. So here's a man who got the chance to assault police and not do any time? What the hell is going on here? The man has a violent past that is a FACT. it's no my opinion on the matter.

It's funny the damming evidence piling up on Zimmerman but yet people are saying the prosecutors case is diminishing, that is the craziest shit I am seeing. Investergators know if Zimmerman would of stayed in his car Tray would be alive. When the dispatcher asked Zimmerman where would he be so he could point the cops in Tray's direction they asked him to wait at the mailbox, at first Zimm agreed then he flipped and said "UMMUMM HAVE THEM CALL ME" WTF!!! That lets me know he was basically saying fuck the police I am going after this guy. How do I equate that? Because Zimm said this himself on tape "THEY ALWAYS GET AWAY". Bammm! He has it fixed in his mind to get that person.

And you say Trayvon moms should have taught him.... WTF are you talking about? She don't even live there, and Trayvon has a right to walk just like anyone else to his father's house. No one thought this type of crazy shit would happen. Who knew Captain Crazy was carrying a fucking loaded weapon? Who did Zimm let know he was carrying? No one knew that shit, Zimmerman is a vigilante paranoid delusional motha fucka!!!

You seem to think Zimmerman is going to walk? Wow. Ok, we shall see

---

Yep ... he'll walk. Trust me. He'll walk Scott-Free, and have to live in hiding for the rest of his life; for simply standing up for his hood.

Isn't that something you people write about on our walls in our communities with spray paint? You can do it, but when citizens stand up for their homes?

Whatever ... fucking stupid.


You can watch the story unfold for yourselves in the end.

InHouston you keep saying Trayvon shouldn't have ran, wtf he didn't know Zimmerman, look at the clothes Zimmerman had on and people know those Hispanic gangs like MS-13 are out there and Tray see a Hispanic dude just say "WHAT YOU DOING AROUND HERE" that's like a gang member protecting his territory. You yourself talked about a gang of Hispanics coming up on you. I mean wtf are you really talking about here? It's dark and raining and a stranger out of no where I am suppose to have a convo with them and they are following me? I mean are you for real?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by InHouston

Cowboys? It's the thug culture that has taken over in this country. You seem to forget that we border Mexico where cartels are delivering tons of drugs and distributing those drugs all over this nation. And the post-pubescent minority brats in our society are more than happy to help them out for quick cash. There is a major crime epidemic in this country and it is not because of guns. It is because of drugs, and the thug culture who embraces the idea that going to prison is a badge of honor, and the more violent you are, the more upward-mobile you will be in your local gang.

That’s the reality Seanchai. The black and Hispanic community is causing these problems in in the working class communities of America. They know it, and they’ll never admit it. Every time someone stands up to them, the minority community flings out the “race card”, when they’re the ones causing and exasperating the problem.

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You haven't asked the question, who is buying the cocaine and the marijuana that is at the core of the drug trade, the drug wars -and for that matter, where does Heroin come from? And who is buying it? The customers are in the US, right where you live, and they are preppies seeking a weekend thrill, rock musicians who can't live -or perform- without t, Wall St traders who can buy it at lunchtime, mum and dad and uncle charlie and the guy who just sold you a car. It is inevitable that poppy growers in Afghanistan and Pakistan are going to be in the Heroin mix, they don't grow poppies for heroin in London. If the 'thugs' you refer to had jobs, would they waste their time hanging around on street corners?

And who was President when your very own US of A through a covert operation was running drugs into the USA for the benefit of American users, in a decade that saw drug-related crimes go through the roof? Hmmmm, Ronald something, and I will give you a hint, it wasn't Ronald McDonald...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zulusierra

I understand why you would think this was,but no.

Between taking weapons carry classes taught by my local Sheriffs Dept., and serving 4 years in the Marines, I learned one of the most important responsibilities of being armed is having a plan in advance. There is no way to train otherwise. Do you really want un-trained people (such as Zimmerman) running around with no idea how they should react in a situation making judgments on pure adrenaline?

In a high-stress situation it's good to be able to fall back on training and "muscle memory". Basically, if you make the decision to be armed, you owe it to yourself and the rest of society to consider any situations that might arise and how you should react beforehand.

I also don't think you have very much understanding of firearms if you think you can just "disable" someone. You either use deadly force or you don't. Period. It's not like the movies. It's not as easy as James Bond makes it look.

---

James Bond has a licence to Kill, in fiction. With all your training, you are telling me you can't shoot an intruder in the leg?

You sound like a fucking gang member, and that story you told I DON'T BELIEVE THAT SHIT!!! AND I DON'T HAVE TO!!!

Fuck you mean WE PEOPLE... SPRAY PAINT? Are you stereo typing African descent people here in NYC with that bullshit? OUR WALLS IN OUR COMMUNITIES" Fuck is you talking about? I am not a gang member and I work and pay taxes like the next man, so how are you going to subliminally insinuate me or my people spray painting in YOUR COMMUNITY? I don't know where you live and could give less than a fuck!!!

We will see in the end what happens.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by InHouston

Yep ... he'll walk. Trust me. He'll walk Scott-Free, and have to live in hiding for the rest of his life; for simply standing up for his hood.

Isn't that something you people write about on our walls in our communities with spray paint? You can do it, but when citizens stand up for their homes?

Whatever ... fucking stupid.


You can watch the story unfold for yourselves in the end.

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America didn't 'inherit' slavery. This country invested heavily in it. Africans weren't sailing ships back and forth across the Atlantic with their cargo hulls filled with human cattle.

You're all over the place, InHouston.

Africans didn't capture their own people and sit on the Western shores of their continent waiting for Europeans to show up. Yes there Africans who were sold into slavery by rival tribes, but the majority of African salves were seized through force at the end of a musket barrel. No one forced slave traders to buy other human beings and sell them.
Remember that.