Coronavirus

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Originally Posted by Ben

How the Chinese Authorities and the World Health Organization Handled the Coronavirus:
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Unusually tame piece from Counterpunch -what about the step-by-step demolition of the USA's commitment to the UN and its Agencies? UNWRA, UNESCO, and now the WHO -this is just part of a long term strategy to end the international order that the US helped to create in the years after the Second World War -the first meeting of the UN General Assembly was in London in January 1946.
Surprised Counerpunch has not noted this, for who benefits from ending the UN? Russia, China...

My issue with the Counterpunch article is that it doesn't reflect a complex reality. Trump is using China's conduct as an excuse for his own negligence when they're unrelated. That doesn't mean China's behavior was exemplary and the article seems to exclude at least a few things that should concern us about China's response.

China did try to silence whistleblowers and has not only not been transparent but has appeared to try to suppress investigation into the origin of the outbreak. In addition, the numbers they've released for infections and deaths are likely fabrications based on some external indicators such as demand for funeral services. Other countries depend on accurate reporting to try to determine the relationship between government measures to contain the virus' spread and outcomes.

If the outbreak started as a result of the trade in wild animals to be eaten at wet markets, which is the most likely origin, we can say China has been aware of the risks of zoonotic diseases being transmitted to humans in this setting for some time. One can criticize this practice without making any cultural judgments and also without seeking to harm China's food supply since these animals are eaten as a delicacy rather than as a staple of people's diet.

https://www.vox.com/coronavirus-covi...racies-podcast

Here's an interview with Bill Gates. Once again, he seems to provide some of the broadest, most useful information one can find from a single source. This interview covers testing limitations, how to increase testing capacity, therapeutics, likelihood for creating a vaccine and timeline, ability to manufacture and scale up a successful vaccine, distancing measures and their effectiveness, the origin of covid-19, the dangers associating with consuming certain animal meats, and more.

This a is great article about what at this point seems like a year ago:

http://www.wired.com/story/an-oral-h...ed-coronavirus

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Originally Posted by broncofan

My issue with the Counterpunch article is that it doesn't reflect a complex reality. Trump is using China's conduct as an excuse for his own negligence when they're unrelated. That doesn't mean China's behavior was exemplary and the article seems to exclude at least a few things that should concern us about China's response.

China did try to silence whistleblowers and has not only not been transparent but has appeared to try to suppress investigation into the origin of the outbreak. In addition, the numbers they've released for infections and deaths are likely fabrications based on some external indicators such as demand for funeral services. Other countries depend on accurate reporting to try to determine the relationship between government measures to contain the virus' spread and outcomes.

If the outbreak started as a result of the trade in wild animals to be eaten at wet markets, which is the most likely origin, we can say China has been aware of the risks of zoonotic diseases being transmitted to humans in this setting for some time. One can criticize this practice without making any cultural judgments and also without seeking to harm China's food supply since these animals are eaten as a delicacy rather than as a staple of people's diet.

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Excellent post, Broncofan, puts a lot of my thoughts together in one place.

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Originally Posted by blackchubby38

This a is great article about what at this point seems like a year ago:
http://www.wired.com/story/an-oral-h...ed-coronavirus

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Fascinating collection of oral history that brings out the doubts and fears that have been so integral to this whole story.

I also recommend these reviews of the multiple times the President was warned that a major event was taking place in the world that had deep implications for the USA-
https://www.axios.com/trump-coronavi...0f4f9aa97.html
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020...-briefings-pdb

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Originally Posted by Stavros

Excellent post, Broncofan, puts a lot of my thoughts together in one place.

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I appreciate the compliment. Funding the WHO should be an important objective for anyone with even the slightest humanitarian impulse. The decision to defund it in order to scapegoat them for the tragic incompetence of our leaders is shameful and as you said one more way in which the U.S. is damaging the international order under this administration.

If you don't mind me asking, what kind of job do you think your leaders in the UK are doing with Covid? Like our numbers, your number of infections and deaths per capita do not look great. But that doesn't always tell the entire story because while I do think policy is the most important factor, chance can play some role in these outbreaks based on when you had your first infection, the layout of your cities etc. I also noticed that testing numbers in the UK are not good on a per capita basis. Again, this doesn't tell the entire story because the timing of tests matters, but the very high case fatality rate and low number of tests per capita paint a picture of insufficient testing.

Stay safe!

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Originally Posted by broncofan

I appreciate the compliment. Funding the WHO should be an important objective for anyone with even the slightest humanitarian impulse. The decision to defund it in order to scapegoat them for the tragic incompetence of our leaders is shameful and as you said one more way in which the U.S. is damaging the international order under this administration.

If you don't mind me asking, what kind of job do you think your leaders in the UK are doing with Covid? Like our numbers, your number of infections and deaths per capita do not look great. But that doesn't always tell the entire story because while I do think policy is the most important factor, chance can play some role in these outbreaks based on when you had your first infection, the layout of your cities etc. I also noticed that testing numbers in the UK are not good on a per capita basis. Again, this doesn't tell the entire story because the timing of tests matters, but the very high case fatality rate and low number of tests per capita paint a picture of insufficient testing.

Stay safe!

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Completely agree that funding the WHO is should be an important objective for anyone with even with the slightest humanitarian impulse. and Donald Trump's decision to defund the WHO and scapegoat them for his incompetence and negligence and failure to take the warnings of a pandemic coming to the United States serious is shameful and irresponsible,even though he's been briefed multiple tiimes and he continues to downplay it by saying the virus is going to go away,even though health experts like Dr. Anthony Fauci says that there will be a second wave of CO-VID 19 in the fall, shows that Donald Trump is uneducated,unfit and unqualified to be president.

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Originally Posted by KnightHawk 2.0

Completely agree that funding the WHO is should be an important objective for anyone with even with the slightest humanitarian impulse. and Donald Trump's decision to defund the WHO and scapegoat them for his incompetence and negligence and failure to take the warnings of a pandemic coming to the United States serious is shameful and irresponsible,even though he's been briefed multiple tiimes and he continues to downplay it by saying the virus is going to go away,even though health experts like Dr. Anthony Fauci says that there will be a second wave of CO-VID 19 in the fall, shows that Donald Trump is uneducated,unfit and unqualified to be president.

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And why wouldn't there be another wave in the fall? With people imprisoned in their own houses, their immune systems will weaken over the months. Release them into the outdoors and they'll be infested with Covid as well as the flu. Do we remember the flu? Apparently, the governments have forgotten how many lives it claims. When all this goes down, expect a lot more deaths to control that world population that Bill Gates preaches. Let us out now in the good weather to keep our antibodies at a peak will keep those deaths from happening. But why would we want to save lives that way when we can pay out of pocket for a vaccine in a year and help make the pharmaceutical companies trillions - yes trillions!

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Originally Posted by bassman2546

Do we remember the flu? Apparently, the governments have forgotten how many lives it claims.

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Oh boy, here we go again.

Do we remember that flu vaccine is widely available? Do we remember that many people already have flu immunity?

How many lives does COVID-19 have to claim before you'll consider it a threat?