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If we're going to ban guns, then let's also ban cutting tools, alcohol, tobacco, saturated fat, high fructose corn syrup, GMO crops, motor vehicles, caffeine, power windows, red meat, extreme sports, and, of course, religion. What else did I leave out?
So yayz! Let's do this! Because we live in a democratic nanny state, not a free republic, right? </sarcasm>
Keep this up and we'll be in neither. Fascism anyone?
~BB~
Good argument for stiffer laws controlling both firearms and second smoke. But please stop arguing against straw man opponents. Nobody here is whining and nobody is suggesting we ban all guns. Let's just have some common sense regulation. E.g. Reinstate the ban against automatic weapons. Revoke SYG laws. Regulate clip capacity. Restrict concealed carry. If you want to carry, then man up and display your weapon.
Sorry Trish, sometimes open display of legal weapons and standing your ground is the only thing that keeps you from losing everything. se vidQuote:
Originally Posted by trish
and Denver is not an open carry municipality
http://opencarry.org/co.html
LA Riots - Armed store owners deter rioters - YouTube
I'm not against open display. Read again. I'm opposed to concealment.
Well, here is the problem with that:Quote:
Originally Posted by trish
1. Banning Automatic Weapons: They are already HEAVILY regulated. You must acquire a Class III license to get a-hold of fully automatic weapons. The ATF does not like handing out Class III permits, therefore, not many people have them. But that does not stop the average gun savvy person from opening up the interior of their AR-15 and modifying the firing pin to allow for (illegal) full automatic firing mode.
2. Revoke Stand Your Ground: And this is to achieve WHAT? Telling victims of crime to RUN, RUN, RUN as fast as you possibly can and if you can't escape, lay down and take your ass raping and beating like the bitch you are. SYG is also known as "the right to defend yourself from a dumb piece of shit law". Simple fact. If criminals don't want to get shot or stabbed or something else, well don't commit crimes. It is not my duty to retreat from my home, vehicle, business nor surrender to the demands of some retard in a ski mask. In every violent crime incident, it is ALWAYS your life or theirs. You really think that just running away or obeying their commands will save your life?
3. Clip Capacity: You must mean "magazine" capacity. These mag capacity limits are both stupid and useless. New York already bans any gun mag higher than 10 rounds. But guess what, I own several 30 round magazines for my AR-15. Why? Because they are legal to buy regardless. These are grandfather mags, unused mags that were manufactured before 1994. Magazine capacity limits dont really slow me down either. Changing out a mag is simple, at least for me, even if I have to use those 10 rounders.
4. Concealed Carry: Is there REALLY any difference between a person with a concealed carrying permit and a person carrying openly, also with a permit? Does this make any difference to the fact that said person is carrying a firearm?
That doesnt make much sense. Concealed weapon permits require a background check and classes.Quote:
Originally Posted by trish
Urgh - the same old retarded arguments: the US has more guns per head of population than most other countries but every time something like this happens they blame it on "wearing raincoats/Batman/drugs/whatever".
Listen, I get it - guns are cool, they're fun to take on the range and fire, I've done enough of it. That's the only reason most of you idiots support the right to bear arms. Stating it's in the Constitution is horseshit, Constitutions can be changed and you'd be happy to do it for something else. Trying to say it would protect you from the Government? Seriously? What backwards country do you live in? You live in what is meant to be (by your own admission) the Greatest Country on Earth - or the Greatest Democracy on Earth. Stating you own guns for when you might need to defend yourself from the government is like Christians awaiting the Rapture or survivalists wanted the end of times to come. You are living in a fucking fantasy and salivating over the potential of an apocalypse (or zombie outbreak). Get the fuck over yourselves - you want guns because you like them and enjoy them - so stop with the excuses.
I understand wanting to protect yourself. If I ended up living on the mainland, I'd consider having a gun in the house for protection but I live somewhere, where guns, especially assault type or semi-automatics are almost impossible to get, so I don't need to. Surely you fuckwits can see the difference between protecting yourself with A gun and someone being able to get a hold of 6000 rounds of ammunition, assault rifles, semi-automatics? Surely you understand that not every legitimate gun owner remains sane and normal ... or their gun cannot be taken from them (ie; see the idiot on his 1st post above about not having his guns taken).
Guns kill. Countries which have more stringent gun laws have fewer gun deaths (don't both throwing in the few examples of otherwise). Your country has too many fucking idiots, as most countries do to be trusted with those types of weapons. Once again big business wins over common sense and those of you who are pro-gun are no different from religious zealots, refusing to listen to common sense or any other form of argument that may possibly restrict weapons.
My Gods. Where would I ever begin?!Quote:
Originally Posted by seanchai
You and I argue enough. I'll let Kaiti field this one. :lol:
~BB~
The automatic weapons ban expired. The regulation on automatic weapons therefore less restricted then it used to be.Quote:
1. Banning Automatic Weapons: They are already HEAVILY regulated.
to think before they shoot. Avoid gunfire if possible without further endangering you life. Self-defense has always been a legal plea way before SYG. SYG is not about defense, it's about escalating a dangerous situation even in cases where violence can be avoided.Quote:
2. Revoke Stand Your Ground:... Telling victims of crime to...
Yes. A firearm in apurse, for example, may be pointed directly at you (deliberately or coincidentally) and you would never know that you are at increased risk of injury. I don't know about you, but I was taught NEVER to pass the barrel across the body of another person, regardless of whether the safety is on or whether the chamber is empty. An ordinary person can assess his level of risk and most of the weapons in the joint are on display. Moreover, I believe fewer people would carry if they had to carry openly because they're embarrassed to go out in public toting their toys. Besides if you carried openly think of all the guns you could buy as accessories to your outfits.Quote:
4. Concealed Carry: Is there REALLY any difference between a person with a concealed carrying permit and a person carrying openly, also with a permit? Does this make any difference to the fact that said person is carrying a firearm?
There is nothing to argue about - I stated my piece.Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaBellucci
Yes, Constitutions can be changed. Our great Bush regime surely proved that when he rolled out the foundation for what will become in the next decade, the United Fascist Totalitarian States of Jesusland. We already have 4 year old girls with teddybears being groped by airport security, checking for supposed diaper bombs and throwing wheelchair bound old ladies on the floor to search her wheelchair for pipe bombs or some other bullshit on top of the PATRIOT Act and a dozen other Bush regime laws to strip Americans of their Constitutional rights of justice and due process in the name of preventing terrorism. Terrorism we already had the ability to prevent a long ass time ago but, well, after the DoD was informed over and over by several governments including Israel that 9/11 was going to happen, the government disregarded it anyway. Instead we went to war, used them as excuses to tear apart our civil and human rights, while claiming we are freeing Afghanistan and then Iraq. This isn't enough though for the so-called free Democratic West. The G8, G20, EU and every other greedy corporate run world government has been trying soooooooooooooo hard to stomp out our rights bit by bit with dumb shit like ACTA (international law authorizing border checkpoints to illegally search and seize your electronics for "pirated music") and Australia's AMCA internet blacklist to censor and ban half the internet like they do in China and Iran and even here in the USA, we get our retarded Republican scumbags trying to pass some other fascist law to monitor everything we do from threatening Google and Twitter and Facebook to surrendering all the user data to the FBI and CIA to spy on everyone more easily, illegal wiretapping and Guantanamo torture camps and the bizarre construction of these FEMA camps all over America as if we're preparing to intern all the Japanese again like we did in World War II. Yes, I love guns, they are cool. I also want them, not only to pose and take sexy photos with and shoot at the range but to be able to shoot whoever comes into my home without legal authority, be it a criminal or a Fed. Its already happened in Greece and the way America is spiraling down the toilet drain, it is not inconceivable to see the 99% decide to fight back one day when Mitt Romney and Mormon space Jesus comes into power and take away healthcare, social security, pensions and sends our children and parents overseas to murder more Muslims in a country we have no business in since day one (Iraq).Quote:
Originally Posted by seanchai
The automatic weapons ban did not expire. It is called the "Assault" weapons ban and that did expire. The Assault weapons ban outlawed the ownership of things like the AK-47 and M16, regardless if it fired full auto or semi-auto and bans certain guns parts and accessories that somehow made the weapon look more scary like... cool little sights and flash hiders and pistol grips so you can fire the gun without dropping it and general ease of use kinda stuff. New York and California still try to enforce their own state laws like that, it only makes the two governments look like retards.Quote:
Originally Posted by trish
Stand Your Ground does not imply: go harass a black kid with a iced tea and Skittles and then shoot him when he tries to stop you from harassing him. The entire idea that Zimmerman could even dare use the Stand Your Ground law on any basis is retarded. People don't seem to understand that Trayvon Martin utilized SYG after attempting to run from Zimmerman, who pursued, cornered and intimidated Martin further. Trayvon, used SYG in an attempt to stop Zimmerman's harassment, stalking and later murder.
I'm not sure who would carry a loaded gun in a purse. Anyone who has any level of sense would be trained, especially when you have to apply to a carrying permit, like in New York, where they teach you gun safety, would know not to carry a loaded gun in a purse with random objects pushing and bumping the gun and trigger. It belongs in a holster, whether on your belt, shoulder, thigh or ankle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kittyKaiti
Great post, I must say.
What happened in Greece though?
Personaly I view guns as tools. Yes they are dangerous and deadly in the wrong hands, but so is an automobile. Strangely though you NEVER see people get up in arms about the number of vehicles on the road after a fatal crash. You never hear anyone say "It should be harder for people to buy cars, then this wouldn't happen." The truth is things exist, and those who want for things can find them, regardless of what laws and regulations restrict said things. I can see for alot of people guns might not fit into such a category, but for me and the area I live in, they do. Is it right for someone else I've never met to decide what's okay for me and what isn't? To come to my door and take from me useful tools I use and at times rely on? I don't believe it is. Firearms will likely exist for just as long as humanity does, it's the people who need to change, not the laws.
Fucking brilliant deductions!Quote:
Originally Posted by shaustin
I've also never heard someone say, I'm going to sneak this Chevy into a movie theater and run down all these people.
An automobile has one purpose and so does a gun.
1.So reinstate the ban against assault weapons.
2. Self defense is already a legitimate defense. SYG just encourages escalation.
3. Guns are carried in purses all the time. There is a new line of clothes for men with "gun pockets" at thigh level. When seated the gun is directed at your neighbor. Tied holsters have the same issue. Just carry in the open so the rest of us can assess the risk to our person.
The assault weapon ban didn't really do much though in the first place. It banned Kalashinkov brand rifles, so other companies cloned them and therefore, legal civilian AK-47s. The bans targeted "Colt" brand AR-15s, so other companies made their own and poof, AR-15s everywhere and legal. Ban the flash hiders but any normal person a stick one on again with clever modification. Pistol grips can be installed with ease. FFS, my toy airsoft gun replica of an M4 Carbine was so well 1 on 1 scale with my S&W AR-15 that the parts for the exterior were interchangeable like the rail mounts, foregrips, pistol grips, telescoping stock, etc. Ban it all you want because it won't stop people from doing it anyway. Gun bans work one way. Criminals disregard them. Law abiders don't.Quote:
Originally Posted by trish
SYG is not to create an escalation. SYG means that when there is a rapist chasing me down the street, I have the right to turn around a pop that fucker in the head with a 9mm. I have no duty to flee. It's based on MY right to be in a public location safely and understanding that HE has NO right to commit any offense against me or anyone. Only in those pussy states are you forced to flee and try to run until you are too tired or cornered or trapped, or maybe you're out in the middle of bumfuck with nowhere to run to for help but its illegal to stop and fight back because some dumb liberal P.O.S said you have no right to defend yourself.
I dunno, Steve... I think this did:Quote:
Originally Posted by seanchai
Greece riots: Athens burns, police fire tear gas as violence flares up - YouTube
'Greece doomed, economy total farce & fiction!' - YouTube
Anonymous: Address to Greeks During Feb. 12 Riots - YouTube
Protesters clash with Greek riot police over austerity - YouTube
I can get hundreds of videos like this.
Strange.....I've used automobiles for a variety of purposes before....and guns aswell.... I guess I must not be using either of them right. Guess I better go out and murder some people so no one will say I don't know the only purpose of my firearm.Quote:
Originally Posted by seanchai
And ya know what else I've never heard:
"The shotgun ran the red light and caused this fatal accident."
"That silver revolver right there, it was passing the .38 special and collided with the oncoming AR-15 killing everyone inside."
"Let's finish these beers and go take my new winchester for a spin in town."
Had one person in the theatre been carrying and trained we wouldn't be having this conversation. Even old men can make it look easy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mm9o3vhKoF8
1.So there's no reason to oppose it so vociferously.Quote:
The assault weapon ban didn't really do much though in the first place.2.
That's called escalation. You do have a moral duty to avoid deadly violence if possible. Ordinary self-defense allows you to pop when avoidance is not an option.Quote:
SYG means that when there is a rapist chasing me down the street, I have the right to turn around a pop that fucker in the head with a 9mm. I have no duty to flee. It
3. Concealment infringes on our right to know about and assess the risks around us.
It was dark. The dude was covered in armor. Surely you jest. I hate to think of the death toll had the whole theater been packing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Faldur
I'm missing your point?Quote:
Originally Posted by kittyKaiti
I'd say this one has probably been used before.Quote:
Originally Posted by shaustin
Great points you've made there ...
You must be jesting right? Dark, crowded theatre, moving people - it would have probably been more deaths.Quote:
Originally Posted by Faldur
This is the stupidest argument I always here on these killing sprees. Let's arm teachers so Columbine doesn't happen again?
Everywhere I go, I have at least two knives and a mace spray with me. Once I get settled here in Las Vegas, if you ever happen to see a hot chick, while visiting Nevada, with a Glock open carried, walking down the strip, that'll be me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Faldur
You must not understand. When the government pisses off the people enough, we will retaliate. Its getting bad everywhere. Syria, Libya, Egypt, Greece. It's only a matter of time before we in America become sick of the extreme corruption that is destroying our nation, freedoms and economy. Imagine those riots in Athens, but in every major city in America. Our Democratic voting system no longer works and everyone is starting to wake up and see that.Quote:
Originally Posted by seanchai
Guy is wrapped in Kevlar like The Mummy. What do you aim for? Randomly moving target with no rhyme or reason as well. Good luck with that head shot through the haze.
This would work better but you'll never get close enough. I recommend fleeing even if you are armed. Your opponent has no fear of commitment and has tactical advantage. Know when someone has the drop on you.
http://www.thesurvivalzone.com/image...15_9474705.jpg
Grrr... linking to Wikipedia seems broken...
You mean like the ones that the ATF was encouraging gun stores to sell to known or suspected stray purchasers? One of which lead to the death of a US border agent.Quote:
Originally Posted by buttslinger
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Fast_and_Furious
Yes.. lets blame the gun companies!
Really? I was unaware that Obama was President in September 2004 when the Federal Assault Weapons Ban expired. Hell... he wasn't even a US Senator then, he was a back bencher in the Illinois Senate.Quote:
Originally Posted by dabaldone
Federal Assault Weapons Ban - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Really? Ready to be wrong again?Quote:
Originally Posted by dabaldone
Anything else you want to be proven wrong on?
This isn't like a bunch of retail shops in America just started handing out AK47s and throwing them across the Rio Grande to the Cartel members on the other side. This is once again, our dipshit government, failing like it always does, to try and fix a problem the wrong way by taking something simple and complicating it. Don't blame the gun companies. Blame the Feds for giving guns to Cartel terrorists in the hope of somehow magically locating all the bad guys.Quote:
Originally Posted by bobvela
Kevlar or no kevlar you put a slug square in his chest he won't be firing any rounds for a minute or two. The typical profile of these fruit cakes is they are cowards, shots start coming back his direction more than likely he is going to run like a little girl. And even if he doesn't, he will be far to focused on where the incoming rounds are coming from to worry about shooting innocents. Would you rather die fighting for your life, or on your knees begging for it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino Velvet
And Steve, if the teachers in Columbine were armed the disaster there never would have happened. People don't go on random shooting sprees in places they know there are people with guns.
Another thing, thank God he was stopped at 24. What knowledge would he have attained by 34? Then 44... What would he be capable of doing and how strong would his will become?
His brain is dangerous and not at all well. Anyone like him who feels like he has nothing to lose so willing to throw it all away is someone to be avoided at all costs.
Any more background on his mother? From what I heard she wasn't shocked. Was this true?
Other people since his high school days claim to have never seen him with a woman. Not reading or projecting too specifically into that.
If I'm sitting next to Trish and she passes me The Bitch I might be able to bag his ass but how do I get a deer rifle into the picture show?Quote:
Originally Posted by Faldur
I'm still running even if my Magnum is dragging on the ground making sparks.
You have more courage than me. Hopefully we both make it to the next Batman sequel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faldur
Oh dear...
You're right.... Well, take, say automobiles -- cars and trucks -- they kill on average 1 million animals -- cats, dogs etc., etc. -- in the U.S. every single day. But we rarely hear about it. I mean, people should drive less. And walk more, bike etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaBellucci
And, too, pollution. How many people die from pollution-related illnesses every year?
Look at cigarettes. They aren't banned. But they kill close to 400,000 Americans every single year. I've never smoked.
Anyway, these mass random killings are unique to America. Why? (They point out it's the number of guns. Well, up there in Canada they've more guns per capita.) Why is it white males? And, too, now it seems to be privileged white males. James Holmes was fairly privileged. So, it's white males. Not women. Why?
And even to the furthest extent: global warming. Which, according to the so-called political left [people like Noam Chomsky and Naomi Klein] have pointed out that global warming could be the death knell of the species. (No mention of other species. No mention of 200 species going extinct every single day.) But the fossil fuel industry could be driving us to extinction. But there is no discussion about banning oil and coal. Merely reducing it. And switching to what are really unsustainable alternative energy sources. I mean, you still need to mine to build solar panels and wind turbines.
George Carlin takes us home -- :)
George Carlin - Saving the Planet - YouTube
Wake me up after that happens.Quote:
Originally Posted by kittyKaiti
It's only a matter of time? Joe American is apathetic as long as he has his 100 channels, extra value meals and cheap gas so he doesn't have to walk anywhere. He's probaby never read a book or a proper newspaper.
While you may fantasize about it only being a matter of time, you need to realize the extreme minority you're in. The US can barely even organise a good riot so I don't see you're revolution happening anytime soon.
Always thought deep down Carlin would rather end the World than save it. Just because he loved to make you laugh didn't mean he loved you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben
Like from the grave...
George Carlin - Tips For Serial Killers !(FUNNY)! - YouTube
I think that if I was an American I would be insulted by this hysterical garbage. Had you been living in Libya or Syria for the last 25 years I doubt you would cite either country in the same context as your embittered judgement of the 'state of the nation'. You continue to have more freedoms in the USA than the majority of people in Libya and Syria have ever known; the difference between corruption in the USA compared to either Libya or Syria is so great it suggests you don't know the meaning of the word. On the other hand you have a constitutional duty to overthrow a tyrannical government by force of arms, so does this mean you are busy organising a militia to do this? And what does your alternative government look like? People have been writing the last chapter of American democracy since Vietnam; but last time I checked, elections had not been abolished. And where would you rather be living now, Libya, Syria or Las Vegas?Quote:
Originally Posted by kittyKaiti
I really don't know what the hell is going on in his mind and what he was thinking in his sick brain but all I know many families lost their love ones because of a sicko.
You can be someone who worships GOD but anyone who kills in the name of religion or don't respect a human life don't deserve my respect and most of all how can someone be a human if he doesn't respect human life.
Too many Americans nowadays are against reasonable restrictions on gun ownership.
It's easier to get a driver's license than it is to own a gun. That's really fucked up.
The only people who should be allowed to own high caliber semiautomatic weapons are the military and police.
The guns rights advocates have turned into another version of the religious moral majority. Gun ownership has become an article of faith instead of an issue of public safety.