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I'm grateful that you've opened up to some extent on your beliefs, genuinely.Quote:
Originally Posted by mildcigar_2001
Two questions if I may:
1) When you state that you have a "general belief that western culture is superior", what objective criteria, historical or other, are you employing;
and
2) While you've shared your relative views on the last two Democratic presidents, what are your opinions of the Bushes, Dubya and his father, Reagan, and going further back, Nixon?
Thanks.
Right now we should be more concerned with the fate of CeCe who is in solitary confinement on a charge that could see her locked up for most of the rest of her life; hi-jacking the thread to make ill-informed comments about other issues seems to me to detract from the gravity of her case.Quote:
Originally Posted by mildcigar_2001
:iagree::iagree:Quote:
Originally Posted by Stavros
You are partially right about the Nazis and Christianity - and that's really just it with you: you take some facts and extrapolate to meet your own bigoted ideas.Quote:
Originally Posted by mildcigar_2001
While the high-level Nazis (Hitler, Bormann, Himmler, et al) were indeed more influenced by German mysticism the rank and file WERE Christians. And the senior Nazis from aristocratic backgrounds definitely did not ALL buy into that mysticism and DID identify as Christians. Ergo the majority of the atrocities perpetrated by Germans during the war were perpetrated by people who clearly identified themselves as Christians. Unless of course you're one of those apologists who believe the good German people were just all used by Hitler and a handful of degenerates?
Keep reading and learning and hopefully one day you will be more than just a guy bigot on the internet who learns history via Wikipedia.
Yes, now you are catching on. Is it working?Quote:
Originally Posted by trish
In all seriousness my posts are in response to the "all cultures are equal" meme currently in vogue. Granted my limited efforts are no doubt wasted on particular venue (so it is more likely an exercise in killing time).
I do think it is valuable to get people to think outside of the Liberal echo chamber. For example the Treyvon thread which sort of encouraged my recent posts is a prime example of starting out with a generally untrue premise (that a black 17 year old was shot for being black in white suburbia). The liberal media (such as NBC news who doctored the 911 recording to suit the narrative) added 1 + 1 and got five (because we know that only white people live in gated communities and that if a black person got shot it must be racism).
There was a very good Reuters story from a few days ago that really dug into the background on the incident and the neighborhood):
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...-spray-big-boi
Come to find out it was a mixed neighborhood and that Zimmerman has African ancestry himself. These are things that the news organizations should have looked into weeks ago, but they don't want any "facts" to confuse the narrative.
I don't know if Treyvon or Zimmerman were good or bad people, and I won't reargue the facts again. Because my point is whatever the ultimate outcome of the case, we know that the original bent of the story (black kid shot for being in white suburbia) is false. My general recollection is that the gated community is roughly 20% black and 40% Hispanic and 40% white. This is a far cry from an all white neighborhood and then someone coming outside in Klan robes and shooting the kid. I think it is important especially in view of Sharpton et al’s track record, that these type of matter be examined closely.
That's your premise, at least the one imaginary premise you choose to attack. The premise with which liberals are operating is that Treyvon was stalked by a vigilante for exhibiting intangible "suspicious" behavior, was shot and killed by the vigilante and the vigilante was inexplicably let go without so much as an arrest, a hearing or confiscation of his weapon; until the general public expressed their outrage.Quote:
For example the Treyvon thread which sort of encouraged my recent posts is a prime example of starting out with a generally untrue premise...
(posted with sarcasm). Yes and we also know Muslims are morally inferior and if a women anywhere suffered a clitoridectomy it's because Islam demands it.Quote:
(because we know that only white people live in gated communities and that if a black person got shot it must be racism)
Neither do I, but I do know that justice was not going be carried out in that case until the media and the general public got involved.Quote:
I don't know if Treyvon or Zimmerman were good or bad people...
The morally inferior/superior dichotomy of cultures is just a diversion and so far an ill-formed concept
Quote:
Originally Posted by trish
While the premise was imaginary, it is what was being put forth on this forum and in the Liberal press.
Go back and look at the original title of the thread in question:
"17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia."
A similar meme to to when all those Duke lacrosse players "raped" the black stripper.
Wrong again. Go back and read. The premise with which liberals are operating is that Treyvon was stalked by a vigilante for exhibiting intangible "suspicious" behavior, was shot and killed by the vigilante and the vigilante was inexplicably let go without so much as an arrest, a hearing or confiscation of his weapon; until the general public expressed their outrage.
The OP title (of the other thread) was a little off...but so is the title of this thread...
if people want to get technical.
(the other threads title was wrong depending how you read it...and this one is definitely wrong )
'All cultures are equal' is meaningless; the 'problem' you really want to pursue is is the basis of the social and economic policies in a 'multi-cultural' society that appear to some people to produce biased outcomes which favour 'minorities'. Central and local government agencies producing leaflets in 25 different languages, offering translation services for 'minorities' with their housing queries. You don't spend long with this stuff before someone says that Muslim immigrants get more privileges that 'indigenous British white people' and so on; and I don't doubt this happens in the USA where you are not allowed to offend the Apaches. But if 'all cultures are NOT equal' in the USA of all places, you would surely be denying identifiable groups in the USA their constitutional right to the pursuit of life, liberty and happiness...?Quote:
Originally Posted by mildcigar_2001
CeCe in her cell is, I would suggest, not at this time focused on the [Multi-]cultural meaning of her imprisonment. Perhaps you could stay within the confines of the thread.
Well that shows what you know, or rather don't know.... read up before spouting off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Prospero
I like the Welsh Guards. and the Irish Guards, Grenadier Guards & Coldstream Guards.Quote:
Originally Posted by seanchai
What have the Scots Guards done to offend you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin
It is true that all cultures are different, from each other in some aspect. But declaring one to be better than another leads to thinking errors. And its the same with comparing people, with the exception of the more extreme cases. Whatever criteria you measure, there is always going to be a hidden trade-off. People escape to the suburbs for a better lives. However, many suburban youth, are adrift, as their successfully employed parents are not available. So you have drug use and other risky behaviors, like the inner city youth. Suburbs are generally better at covering up, issues from the media. Its good for business, to keep up appearances.Quote:
Originally Posted by mildcigar_2001
I think the major fault in trying place culture and people above one another, is that we lose on the fact that all people and culture has some instrinsic value, and they are all capable of teaching us something, if we care to look and listen. So called primitive Native American cultures, had a more enlightened view, of what we call transgenders. One term for them was "two spirited people". Some primitive cultures feel, these types of people have sprecial spiritual gifts, and look to them for wisdom. So ask a person like Cece McDonald, who reportedly, was just walking down the street, and ended up, verbally harrassed, and cut in the face, how superior this culture is.
By the way, one major book, that warns against, judging cultures and people, is the Bible. Jesus's story about the "good Samaritan" taught that exact example. The context of the story, was that the Samaritans, were looked down upon, by those from Jesus's community. In the story, the victim in need, was even passed up by a Rabbi. Rabbis were considered to be the cream of the crop, of the Hebrew community. And the point was,the Rabbi, who had educated knowledge, did not translate that into action to help, an injured stranger. But one who was considered ignorant, ( A Samaritan), was still capable of doing a very good deed.
Mildcigar_2001, I thank your for expressing your opinions, when you are not being insulting. However, in this case, I side with Jesus's view.
When the facts come out, I say it will prove that race was an important factor. I still wonder how many of the previous calls he reportedly made on other occaisions were regarding Blacks? It makes no difference if Zimmerman has Black blood or not, or if other blacks live in the gated community. Martin was in the community visiting someone in his family, I believe, so would be assumed that other Blacks live there. The Klan is not the only avenue for racism, in America.Quote:
Originally Posted by mildcigar_2001
Take the case of this story. I suppose you might not see it directly related to race. A woman in St Louis, went to the emergency room complaining about a pain in her ankle. The doctors examined her and then released her, but she refused to leave. The police were called, the medical personell cleared her, and she was taken to jail. In her cell she cried out in pain, collapsed and died. It was reported that it from a blood clot, which came from her ankle injury. Just hearing the story, it comes to me that she must have been Black, and it turns out she was. Of course there were other issues. She did have some mental health, and housing issues. Yes, injustices happen to all races. There just seem to be more, happeining to Black Americans. The effects of racism are forces that change into other forms, which then recycle, to new effects. An example of this, is denying ex-felons the right to vote for life, when a disportional amount of Blacks are in the justice system. In Florida, in 2000 where the US presidency was decided by less than 200 votes, apx 1 million Black potential voters were denied the right to vote. I thought the purpose of prison, was to punish and control offenders. So inronically, the 3/5 designation for counting Blacks in the census, defined in 1789, is comparable to the percentage of Blacks allowed to vote, in Florida and other states, over 200 years later. Racism, like other negative forces, just seem to change form, unless they are purposely rooted out. Things are better now, than the past. But injustice still rears its ugly head, too often, for people to be complacent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yodajazz
The other occasions the suspicious persons identified by Zimmerman were black. I will refer you again to the Reuters article where a black neighbor of Zimmerman's basically states that the robberies in the neighborhood where being committed by black young men.
As to depriving felons of their right to vote, this is a rule of long standing and applies equally to all races. Sorry thieves, rapists and murderers do not have my sympathy. The voting rights suspensions are for people committing felonies not misdemeanors. Keep out of trouble and you have your right to vote. The sad truth is that a distortional amount of blacks are in prison because they commit a disproportionate amount of crimes. This seems to be culture in action. And I'm sure I'll be called a racist for mentioning to troublesome fact.
However I want to point out (by the rules of political correctness) that I can't be a racist because I'm a member of a minority group (Cherokee Indian). According to family lore I'm 1/32 Cherokee Indian and hence a member of a protected minority group. As we all know minority group members can not be racists. Below a picture of my new hero.
I think that at the moment something like 5 million Americans cannot vote because of the 'Felony Disenfranchisement' rule -the point is, if someone has both 'done the crime and served the time', during which time they lost the right to vote, why should they not be re-endowed with equal rights once released from prison? Does it apply to 'felons' who were released on appeal years after their original trial, because in fact they were innocent?Quote:
Originally Posted by mildcigar_2001
Your disingenuous comment on the high proportion of Black Americans in prison presumably also refers to CeCe who is black and in solitary confinement -do the facts known so far in her case matter at all?
This thread is about her, not you.
I will refer you to the fact that none of persons identified by Zimmerman as being "suspicious" were found to be robbers.Quote:
The other occasions the suspicious persons identified by Zimmerman were black.
Thank you for clarifying that point. If you are worried about CeCe then do something beyond reading or writing on this thread. Raise money for her bail. A sad failing among liberals is viewing feeling sorry for someone the same as doing something for that person. If you really think she is innocent then start raising money for her defense (I'm thinking a lonely thread on a porn forum will not do her much good). Otherwise shut up about what is or is not supposed to be written on this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stavros
I’m sick of liberal blowhards who think "talking" is the same as doing something. Personally I’m worried about the ballooning national debt, so I joined a Tea Party group, and give money to fiscally conservative candidates. If I think someone has gotten a raw deal (I have in the distant past) done pro bono work.
Sorry she is in solitary confinement, but were else do you propose to keep her if she is a TS??? Should they arrest additional TS(s) so she may have cellmates? As I stated in the above thread, if she is in pre-trial confinement after one year then her defense counsel (with her approval) is requesting continuances.
I am going from memory, but my recollection is that the prevous times Zimmerman called 911, the suspects disappeard prior to the cops arriving and hence Zimmerman's frustration (something to the effect that these punks always get away or words to that effect).Quote:
Originally Posted by trish
So when he saw Trayvon Martin he decided that this one wasn't going to get away? That's the clear implication behind your words.Quote:
Originally Posted by mildcigar_2001
I think that even in the USA, people are innocent until proven guilty, somehow I get the impression you are not bothered either way. You don't know what I have or have not done in her defence -or for that matter, what I am capable of doing- but the mere fact that her situation is being debated is itself a form of action.Quote:
Originally Posted by mildcigar_2001
If you want to write about the national debt and the tea party there have been threads in the Politics & Religion where it has been and probably will continue to be discussed, often by people who share your views: you prefer to hi-jack these threads for your own publicity, so I don't intend to shut up, because human rights belong to everyone, I even think they are worth shouting about. The issue of solitary confinement seems to confuse you, its not a privilege; and it can be psychologically damaging; and why is she even in gaol anyway? Is Zimmerman in gaol?
She's black, she's transsexual, two reasons why she's in jail and Zimmerman isn't. Nobody important enough cares.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stavros
However, at one level I agree with mildcigar - yep, you read it correctly!
The collective outrage here on Cece's behalf is just so much wasted hot air unless there's a constructive effort to make a positive change to the situation to help the girl. Talk and internet outrage are cheap and easy.
[QUOTE=Stavros;1134521]You don't know what I have or have not done in her defence -or for that matter, what I am capable of doing- but the mere fact that her situation is being debated is itself a form of action.QUOTE]
I think the above post underscores may point about liberals mistaking blather for action.
I have no idea if CeCe is guilty or innocent. I quite simply don't know enough of the facts about the case. However it is my suspicion that if she has been in jail a year pending trial that the facts don't weigh heavily in her favor. As a general rule (and granted there are noted exceptions) most prosecutors don't bring meritless cases.
I worked as a prosecutor and defense counsel in the armed forces for several years around the time of the first gulf war, and we were out for justice (We didn't care if the accused was black, brown or green). If there was a poor case then charges were not brought. I know it is a popular myth based on Perry Mason and LA Law type shows, but the vast majority of persons accused of crimes are guilty. I've worked both sides of the street on criminal cases and generally things are fairly cut and dried (often times the accused has been very helpful to the prosecution and provides a detailed confession):dancing:.
For what it's worth...it seems she made bail at some point ...but a judge deemed she violated it when something happened to her leg monitor (which may have been an electronic error) and she tested positive for THC...
...so she was out for a couple of months of that time.
[quote=mildcigar_2001;1134550]1) I am not a liberal, and its comical that you decide to fit me into the slot that suits your argument;Quote:
Originally Posted by Stavros
2) Since it is a fact that you do not know what I have done in the past to help people and what my position is today (and that's all there is to say on it because this isn't a thread about me), you cannot in fact dismiss my vocality as 'blather' rather than action. Reasoned argument is also a tool which freedom can deploy in its combat with prejudice;
3) the USA has a woeful history of trials in which the accused was nowhere near the scene of the crime, or was a victim of mistaken identity, etc -'meritless' cases are thus more common than you are willing to admit;
4) Your personal history does not give you an edge over anyone else on this forum; members of HA know perfectly well the sort of scrapes transexuals get into of their own volition, and also of the way in which some intolerant members of the public will vent their hate on transgendered people, sometimes with disastrous consequences.
5) The core issue is that CeCe has a right to a fair trial, as does Zimmerman, she certainly deserves better than your assumption of guilt with no mitigating circumstances; I return to the vexing issue of solitary confinement, because in some cases it can be psychologically damaging, and could affect the way she presents herself in court.
My thanks to Fred for the details on the accused and bail; one only hopes that justice of some quality is delivered in this case.
[QUOTE=Stavros;...she certainly deserves better than your assumption of guilt with no mitigating circumstances; I return to the vexing issue of solitary confinement, because in some cases it can be psychologically damaging, and could affect the way she presents herself in court.[/quote]
I assume in the midst of your tired and generally untrue handwringing on the criminal justice system that this portion of my post confused you:
"I have no idea if CeCe is guilty or innocent. I quite simply don't know enough of the facts about the case."
If CeCe did not want to be in confinement then perhaps she should have complied with the terms of her bail.
It in a way always amazed me (in my prior practice), that when the Judge would set out a fairly simple set of rules such as "don't use marijuana or wear an electronic monitoring device" that the alleged criminals can't follow these simple rules and end up back in jail.
Your belief that people who live what others call dysfunctional lives will automatically obey all the instructions that law enforcement/courts hand down could be charming if it were not so naive. As to your ability to edit your own statements, this is what you said:
I have no idea if CeCe is guilty or innocent. I quite simply don't know enough of the facts about the case. However it is my suspicion that if she has been in jail a year pending trial that the facts don't weigh heavily in her favor. As a general rule (and granted there are noted exceptions) most prosecutors don't bring meritless cases.
Yes, but.
Anyway until such time as this case comes to court, it might be best not to extend the debate on it.
I've researched this story. She does have a criminal record for writing hot checks.Quote:
Originally Posted by TS CANDY NY
Come on people. I’m empathetic to CeCe here, but she screwed up big time. I’m white and live in Texas, and we have the Castle Doctrine law, and I would have been arrested for this and charged with murder too. If you stop buying into all the bs people post online, you can clearly see why she got herself in the legal mess she’s in.
A woman in the group threw the bottle at CeCe, striking and lacerating her face. Okay, that woman committed assault against CeCe. Then CeCe runs up and stabs Dean in the chest? CeCe retaliated against Dean and is why she’s in the trouble she is. You can’t fly off the handle and stab someone for offending you. If she had stabbed the woman who threw the bottle at her, then it could be argued as self-defense and the case dropped. That’s why her lawyer is settling for a plea deal from the prosecutor, because CeCe flipped out and stabbed Dean for running his mouth and for starting the altercation, and her lawyer can’t defend it. If he could, he would and the charges would have been dropped or never filed in the first place.
If this kind of behavior is allowed by law, then it sets a precedent for others to the same. Hell you’ll have people stabbing and shooting each other in mass. Example: You’re a Wall Street employee going to work. An OWS demonstrator starts yelling, “Criminal! You should be arrested!” and blah blah blah. The Wall Street employee engages in the confrontation. Another OWS demonstrator hits him with a bottle. The Wall Street guy stabs and kills the guy who started the confrontation. That’s not self-defense. That is a retaliatory attack and murder.
But in fairness to CeCe, good riddens to that white-trash bastard Dean. He got himself killed for being a racist homophobic dumbass, and he asked for it. All CeCe had to do was run and call the police and she wouldn’t be sitting in jail. Or, if CeCe lived here in Texas, which many transgendered people do, she could have legally drew a firearm on them if they started approaching her and they would have all shut up and politely backed away.
And for that matter, CeCe could have gotten herself killed by running in there and swatting the hornet’s nest like she did. When she attacked Dean with those scissors, had she missed … I can only imagine what Dean would have done to her. And you know what? They would have let him go for self-defense. This is all around wrong, and just another example of both parties not using their heads.
That’s why she’s in the mess she’s in.
I’ll hand it to CeCe though. She whooped his ass proper, and Dean can push daisies for all I care for acting like a complete asshole to her. Talking shit and got his ass handed to him by a tranny. I bet his racist homophobic ass never pondered that ending to his pathetic life.
That does not make it legal though. And now CeCe fucked up her record for the rest of her life. She should have just backed off and called the police. She’s lucky they reduced it to manslaughter.
[quote=mildcigar_2001;1134550]This is absolutely true! Often when the accussed is innocent the court would have found no probable cause to continue the case and it's dropped. The prosecutor won't pursue it, because he doesn't want the loss on his record. When they find probable cause? Tis tis ... the accussed usually starts opening up and telling what really happened, because they know they're in deep shit and want out with the least amount of punishment they can get. She's lucky she got a plea deal, and she got that because she admitted to what she did, and you can bet your left arm her lawyer told her to not bullshit the judge and to start being honest before the judge slams that gavel down. The court took her cooperation into consideration and reduced it to manslaughter. It's all pretty simple to me what happened. She got pissed off, screwed up, and killed someone for talking shit to her. Maybe next time, she'll just walk away like she should have.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stavros
Well written article here:
http://www.xojane.com/issues/cece-mc...women-of-color
The first circumcision that is known is from the walls of Egypt and this was before Christianity or Jews came on the scene. It has absolutely nothing to do with Islam. Males yes, females no, the Quran doesn't state anywhere in it circumcision on a woman, NOT ONE PLACE!!! The Bible also not one place!!!
Egyptian boys being circumcised
from the tomb of the Vizier Ankhmahor and his wife Mereruka
Sixth Dynasty (Old Kingdom, ca. 2300 BC). Relief on the wall of a tomb at Sakkara, Egyptian circumcision rite predates Abraham. Females should not get circumcised. It was meant for the men only. In Egypt they used the flint stone to take off the fore skin in circumcision rites.
http://i46.tinypic.com/os7nu8.jpg
Thanks for the link, a powerfully written piece, particularly this chilling statistic:Quote:
Originally Posted by seanchai
Transgender women of color are at the highest risk of hate-based violence of any group, unsurprising for a group of people surviving under three oppressive yokes -- racism, sexism, and transphobia -- all at the same time. According to a 2011 report, 70 percent of LGBT murder victims were people of color. 44 percent were specifically women of color.
Ain't that some ish. I don't get why they title African american people as "PEOPLE OF COLOR" it's a stupid title, we are dark due to Melanin and we are different complexions not colors, Caucasian people have more colors to them than we do. This is crazy !!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stavros
I think People of Color are all non-whites.
CeCe's story was the front page Cover story of this weeks City Pages... the injustice is so plain to see I felt sick to my stomach by the time I finished reading the story
http://www.citypages.com/2012-05-09/...-murder-trial/
so sad ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by TempestTS
CeCe shouldn't have tripped out, and lunged and stabbed someone with a pair of scissors who didn't throw the bottle at her in the first place. That was stupid of her to do that, and is why she's in the hot water she is. Hell, they'll charge you with murder here in Texas for that too.