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Re: Bad things happening in London
Quote:
Originally Posted by
robertlouis
Yvonne, from your perspective and from your experience you are absolutely right, because your laws, culture and history allow for citizens' armed response to things like this. Ours doesn't, and it's too big a switch to start changing it suddenly, especially in response to one series of incidents like this. We do things differently here, and on balance that's how I'd like it to stay.
As for community tidying, these are hard, working-class communities, not effete liberals (like me lol) who are showing their ability to pull together in defiance of right-wing media declarations that it is their youngsters that have caused the destruction in the first place. All power to them.
OK, I admit that I live in a small rural community and am therefore very unlikely to experience any of the mayhem of the last few days and nights in the cities, but I have never and will never subscribe to the "stop violence, arm the police" rhetoric.
As a Glaswegian - and few cities in the world have a harder reputation - I'll stand up to anyone with my fists, but I'm not going to carry a knife or worse still a gun under any circumstances, and I mean any.
And for the record, knowing that there are almost as many guns in private ownership as there are people in the US doesn't make me feel safer when I travel to your country. Quite the opposite.
As I said before, you people in your country can live by whatever law you deem fit. If that means no one is allowed guns then more power to ya, it's your country.
I never said that our country is totally safe with all the gun ownership. The same exact thugs that rioted in your country also live in our cities. They cause similar mayhem as your thugs. The thing that bothers me is that when reading topics on web forums, people in the UK are always criticizing the US for our ways, our laws. We are criticized for being harsh on certain peoples in our country while the people of the UK are so understanding and so helpful with their social programs that we in the barbaric US don't have. Yet somehow with all the social programs you people still got riots. The US is far from perfect,but it gets tiring to hear from European cheese eaters how much they hate the US and especially the rural redneck Americans. There are no riots in rural America. When there is a disaster like a tornado, hurricane or flood in rural America there is no looting.
And quite a few people in rural America are poor, like in West Virginia, yet I have never read or heard about any riots in these parts of the US. If regular crime statistics were compared between poor people of West Virginia and poor people in Baltimore City, you'd see a wide difference of statistics between the two areas. So saying poverty or right wing policies are to blame is nonsense.
One day, soon I hope, people will wake up and see that these are just thugs, nothing else, just thugs.
As far as feeling safe, I feel a lot safer going to an American football game than i would to an English football game.
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Re: Bad things happening in London
i think this thing has really rattled the status quo and the government or the police wont be held in such respect by the taxpayers of pommie land any more and there will be a demand for change in the way the way the country is policed and governed
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Re: Bad things happening in London
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Re: Bad things happening in London
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Originally Posted by
Yvonne183
As far as feeling safe, I feel a lot safer going to an American football game than i would to an English football game.
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you could not be safer at a "soccer" game nowadays. its a family game, bring a jester hat, eat a hotdog and boo your own team for not entertaining.
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Re: Bad things happening in London
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SammiValentine
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you could not be safer at a "soccer" game nowadays. its a family game, bring a jester hat, eat a hotdog and boo your own team for not entertaining.
That's true Sammi. And it's always been hard to fight and cry at the same time.
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Re: Bad things happening in London
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Originally Posted by
Dino Velvet
Are there people there as bad as those maggot kids from Harry Brown? I wanted to empty an MP5 at the movie screen when I saw the film. Decent people getting abused by street urchins is never good.
Simply depends on location..
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Re: Bad things happening in London
There are certainly estates in the cities where the police tacitly accept that the rule of law doesn't normally apply and gangs hold the power - pretty much the Harry Brown scenario.
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Re: Bad things happening in London
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Yvonne183
As I said before, you people in your country can live by whatever law you deem fit. If that means no one is allowed guns then more power to ya, it's your country.
I never said that our country is totally safe with all the gun ownership. The same exact thugs that rioted in your country also live in our cities. They cause similar mayhem as your thugs. The thing that bothers me is that when reading topics on web forums, people in the UK are always criticizing the US for our ways, our laws. We are criticized for being harsh on certain peoples in our country while the people of the UK are so understanding and so helpful with their social programs that we in the barbaric US don't have. Yet somehow with all the social programs you people still got riots. The US is far from perfect,but it gets tiring to hear from European cheese eaters how much they hate the US and especially the rural redneck Americans. There are no riots in rural America. When there is a disaster like a tornado, hurricane or flood in rural America there is no looting.
And quite a few people in rural America are poor, like in West Virginia, yet I have never read or heard about any riots in these parts of the US. If regular crime statistics were compared between poor people of West Virginia and poor people in Baltimore City, you'd see a wide difference of statistics between the two areas. So saying poverty or right wing policies are to blame is nonsense.
One day, soon I hope, people will wake up and see that these are just thugs, nothing else, just thugs.
As far as feeling safe, I feel a lot safer going to an American football game than i would to an English football game.
I agree with everything you wrote with the exception of the cheese eaters:) while it can sometimes be annoying - even dumbfounding to listen to their ubiquitous voicing of their opinions concerning the state of affairs in the states, I see them as analogous to back seat drivers. they have some legitimate concerns about how the US is driving the car and where the car is ultimately headed. in some instances their criticisms have real merit - in others you just gotta treat it like the fear and or resentment induced white noise that comes along with being the driver.
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Re: Bad things happening in London
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Yvonne183
As I said before, you people in your country can live by whatever law you deem fit. If that means no one is allowed guns then more power to ya, it's your country.
I never said that our country is totally safe with all the gun ownership. The same exact thugs that rioted in your country also live in our cities. They cause similar mayhem as your thugs. The thing that bothers me is that when reading topics on web forums, people in the UK are always criticizing the US for our ways, our laws. We are criticized for being harsh on certain peoples in our country while the people of the UK are so understanding and so helpful with their social programs that we in the barbaric US don't have. Yet somehow with all the social programs you people still got riots. The US is far from perfect,but it gets tiring to hear from European cheese eaters how much they hate the US and especially the rural redneck Americans. There are no riots in rural America. When there is a disaster like a tornado, hurricane or flood in rural America there is no looting.
And quite a few people in rural America are poor, like in West Virginia, yet I have never read or heard about any riots in these parts of the US. If regular crime statistics were compared between poor people of West Virginia and poor people in Baltimore City, you'd see a wide difference of statistics between the two areas. So saying poverty or right wing policies are to blame is nonsense.
One day, soon I hope, people will wake up and see that these are just thugs, nothing else, just thugs.
As far as feeling safe, I feel a lot safer going to an American football game than i would to an English football game.
I agree with most of what you say, Yvonne, although I do think that any comparison involving the rural poor is misleading. What we've experienced here in the UK is essentially an urban phenomenon, albeit with a few copy-cat events in smaller cities and some towns. Crime in the countryside in the UK is just a blip in comparison with city statistics.
I also disagree with you to an extent regarding the impact of government policy on these events. Yes, there's no doubt that the upfront motivation is all about bling and grabbing what you can for nothing, but it's also very true to say that these people are part of a largely ignored underclass where unemployment has been the norm for generations and normal social rules and morality simply don't apply.
And if you'll accept the comparison, isn't that exactly the case at the top end of society too? Where the top "earners" can pull in 250 x what the guys at the bottom struggle for? And where the bankers simply tell the rest of us to fuck off while they play to their own rules and we all suffer.
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Re: Bad things happening in London
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Edwoodwoodwood
Photos from the Daily Mail on-line of just a few of the rioters caught on CCTV.
Now without making light of it we all know who Colonel Sanders is don't we, wtf is he doing getting caught on CCTV. :)
the colonel is an OG pimp!
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Re: Bad things happening in London
My first assumption, that most of the rioters and looters were from the dysfunctional underclass, gangs, borderline mad, broken homes and so on I think was more than 50% true -but after that first night in Tottenham, the looters took on a diverse character and it now seems they were a mixture of opportunists stealing in the absence of the police; and gangs stealing with fences arranged in advance. A known criminal was shown on video in the Telegraph chatting with looters holding stolen goods; we now know some of these looters have jobs, come from families that have money and so on. It doesn't remove the long-term problems of youth unemployment, but it does make this whole carnival of theft a depressing summary of the extent of selfishness and greed that has infected 'sick Britain'.
Is someone in the FA so thick they can't switch Tottenham's home leg game against Everton to Liverpool this Saturday, and play the away game in London next time?
So far its been a bad year for the Police Service...
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Re: Bad things happening in London
with liverpool at home the same day???? yea not quite that thick............;)
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Re: Bad things happening in London
with the cars on fire it feels like a normal in south america :) hahaha (joking, well ..... not)
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Re: Bad things happening in London
I think people in the U.K will be thinking that the police and the government need a real shake up and to get rid of these politically correct ideas that don't fuck'in work
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Re: Bad things happening in London
You now what guys I believe we are all singing from the same hymn sheet here and albeit there are between all that have posted some very interesting suggestions and analagies we like most of the civilised western world are to blame for our own missguided doings.
Britain used to be known as Great Britain which is why some many people are keen to get here for whatever reason. Britain is no longer great in my opinion for a few simple reasons.
1) We don't hardly manufacture anything ourselves now, the biggest percentage of our consumer items come in from China, India and in general the Far East because on the face of it we can't compete on price against these countries. We are about to spend fortunes on new trains from Germany because they are 'cheaper' then close down our own manufacturing plant and puts hundreds out of work. Who pays for that the?
2) There are far too many people coming into our country every year that are not contributing to the economy either because they are illegal, don't work and if they do most of their money gets sent back 'home'.
3) Our welfare state to which we are very proud has been abused by all and sundry and way too much is handed out to anyone who asks without them ever having contributed a penny to it.
4) 13yrs or socialist rule with all the wasted money on quangos and everything borrowed on the never, never. Those cunts Tony Blair & Gordon Brown have a lot to answer for. Nice one Gordon for selling off all our gold reserves at giveaway prices.
5) This is a big one; The 'Entitlement culture' that so many people now seem to expect someone else to provide for them and give them eveything they want without doing a stroke for it. Our services industry in the UK is now so heavily manned by Eastern Europeans because there are so many lazy no good British citizens who don't want to do the work because it is beneath them, not enough money, not enough respect. Without all these migrant workers the UK would grind to a halt.
6) Europe, Those maggots in Brussels now tell me almost everything that I can do, not do or have to accept. I'm surprised I don't have to check that the colour of my underpants comply with all known rules. We have to chip in so much bloody money into the EU and on the face of it don't get hardly anything back.
7) Wars & overseas aid. WTF are we doing in Afghanistan / Iraq. If we had back all the money we have spent in the last 20 yrs on that we could have afforded to have left those shop doors open and told everyone to help themselves.
I've gotta stop now as sounding like a politician and winding myself up too much but you get my drift.
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Re: Bad things happening in London
It's the same in Australia but we have lots of mineral wealth to save our bacon .if not we also would be in the poo
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Re: Bad things happening in London
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Originally Posted by
russtafa
It's the same in Australia but we have lots of mineral wealth to save our bacon .if not we also would be in the poo
Can I come and join you mate as our place is pretty well fucked up her but at least you have plenty of space and better weather.
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Re: Bad things happening in London
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Originally Posted by
Edwoodwoodwood
Can I come and join you mate as our place is pretty well fucked up her but at least you have plenty of space and better weather.
you are welcome but we have a mad bitch of a prime minister that's running our country down the drain as quick as she can
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Re: Bad things happening in London
with liverpool at home the same day???? yea not quite that thick...........
Some of the funniest jokes I have heard are Liverpool-v-Everton jokes, it would be a great advertisement for football, make it a festival of football fun for all the family....we need cheering up.
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Re: Bad things happening in London
Can you guys share your soccer jokes with us? We wanna laugh too. We just don't understand the humor but we're willing to listen if you care to explain. I'll tell a few knock-knock jokes in return to show my gratitude.:cheers:
Borat Chair Joke - YouTube
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Re: Bad things happening in London
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Re: Bad things happening in London
If the rioting was a surprise, people weren't looking:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...ted?CMP=twt_gu
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Re: Bad things happening in London
You lot get the Police 'service' you deserve.The bosses were concerned about political correctness initially because of the 'ethnicity' of many of the rioters,that we saw before us .So we were told to hold hard and contain by command.In some cases we just didn't have the numbers either.One poor lady in tears watching her parade of shops burn down said to me that they won't cut police numbers now will they? I didn't have the heart to tell her the truth. Watching the subhuman scum burn ,loot and pillage before us. Lets face it we can end up in court just for doing our fuking jobs and giving some crusty a clump around the head. Who want's to risk their families,careers etc etc for a load of ungrateful cunts, who suddenly want us to get stuck in?
These subhumans know there are no real concequenses for their actions that they fear .At least now the results of years of handwringing and molly coddling them is plain to see for the British public as they are interviewed by the media. No longer will the guillable believe the lies of the politicians . It shows the reality of what we have to deal with day in day out.
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Re: Bad things happening in London
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Originally Posted by
Ben
Another apologist eh! I could say a lot more about him but I won't or I will have the malcom x brigade moaning . Just look at the sorts of people the media has shown put through the courts today. Trainee teacher, social worker, students at uni. It is just people of all classes and races who know the police and legal system can do fuck all to them.In my view there was a mix bunch of mainly white social agitators stirring things up amongst the untermensch , just because of some of things one or two of those I lifted said to me ,who didn't really understand what they were talking about but someone said it to them .Thick as shit. And the usual lot we have been dealing with for especially about a decade or so, who just take opportunities when they arise as they know we can't do shit to them that means anything.
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Re: Bad things happening in London
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Originally Posted by
Dino Velvet
Can you guys share your soccer jokes with us? We wanna laugh too. We just don't understand the humor but we're willing to listen if you care to explain. I'll tell a few knock-knock jokes in return to show my gratitude.:cheers:
Borat Chair Joke - YouTube
Dino, you may not understand a lot of our English humoir mate and its not something you can necessarily learn. One things for sure though Dino I almost wet myself when reading most of your posts so it does translate this way over the pond.
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Re: Bad things happening in London
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Originally Posted by
Edwoodwoodwood
Dino, you may not understand a lot of our English humoir mate and its not something you can necessarily learn. One things for sure though Dino I almost wet myself when reading most of your posts so it does translate this way over the pond.
Thanks. I know my audience. Water seeks its own level and HA is the only place that won't kick me out. I've been banned from more places than I can count even though I never fight with people and use very little profanity.
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Re: Bad things happening in London
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Originally Posted by
Dino Velvet
and use very little profanity.
My god dear boy, that almost makes you sound like your English!
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Re: Bad things happening in London
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Originally Posted by
Edwoodwoodwood
My god dear boy, that almost makes you sound like your English!
My English friends call people a cunt when they really like them. I think it's a real hono(u)r to be called that. It's like Cockney Knighthood.
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Re: Bad things happening in London
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Originally Posted by
Dino Velvet
My English friends call people a cunt when they really like them. I think it's a real hono(u)r to be called that. It's like Cockney Knighthood.
yh its wat sucks about our country truely a place where you gotta watch your what your friends do to you more than your enemies. so much backstabbing though people hate ya more for been a gobby guy like i am than a malicious one.
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Re: Bad things happening in London
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Originally Posted by
killkenny
yh its wat sucks about our country truely a place where you gotta watch your what your friends do to you more than your enemies. so much backstabbing though people hate ya more for been a gobby guy like i am than a malicious one.
I always find a way to get along even when I don't have a clue what was said.
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Re: Bad things happening in London
By Richard Edwards
12:01AM BST 22 Sep 2007
The Liberal Democrat leadership hopeful, Nick Clegg, admitted he served a community sentence when he was 16.
http://istyosty.com/b/?u=Oi8vaS50ZWx...YS5qcGc%3D&b=0
The home affairs spokesman was punished for destroying part of Germany's most precious botanical collections in a "drunken prank".
He had to spend weeks digging gardens in a Munich suburb and faced being expelled from Westminster School. The incident occurred when Mr Clegg, now 40, was on an exchange trip in Munich.
He has also told how his classmates shamed him by mocking their German hosts with Nazi goose-stepping routines and Hitler salutes.
The Sheffield Hallam MP had claimed, when asked whether he had ever taken illegal drugs, that politicians had a right to a "past private life".
But at the party conference in Brighton this week, where he announced his leadership ambitions, Mr Clegg said the cactus prank was the "worst trouble" he got into.
He said he and a friend became drunk and found they had two boxes of matches, in a greenhouse full of exotic plants.
They began lighting various plants, watching their tiny hairs burst into flame. They ended up burning two greenhouses of cacti.
Mr Clegg said: "I think we all have blemishes in our past."
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Re: Bad things happening in London
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Originally Posted by
russtafa
you are welcome but we have a mad bitch of a prime minister that's running our country down the drain as quick as she can
We had one of those just over 20 years ago.....
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Re: Bad things happening in London
Quote:
Originally Posted by
robertlouis
We had one of those just over 20 years ago.....
I think Margaret Thatcher actually believed that so-called free market capitalism could bring about a utopian society. (Well, there aren't any "free markets." A free market means: no minimum wage laws, no child labor laws etc. etc.
But so-called corporate capitalism needs a big State. Just in case they need to be bailed out... :)) Anyway, she was an intellectual committed to the ideas of Friedrich Hayek....
Margaret Thatcher: The Crusade of Popular Capitalism - YouTube
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Re: Bad things happening in London
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ben
I think Margaret Thatcher actually believed that so-called free market capitalism could bring about a utopian society. (Well, there aren't any "free markets." A free market means: no minimum wage laws, no child labor laws etc. etc.
But so-called corporate capitalism needs a big State. Just in case they need to be bailed out... :)) Anyway, she was an intellectual committed to the ideas of Friedrich Hayek....
And in doing so led the most socially divisive government in this country's history since Charles I provoked civil war.
Thatcherism's contribution to the last week's events in terms of the creation of attitudes is all too obvious - the creed of me first and fuck you, greed is good, destruction of industries and communities with nothing structural to compensate, and the accelerated growth of a burgeoning underclass estranged from the rest of society and society's moral principles and standards.
We hear plenty about "misguided mollycoddling" ( (c) The Daily Mail), but hardly anything about the right's huge contribution to the varied factors that have led to this week's disgraceful events.
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Re: Bad things happening in London
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dino Velvet
Can you guys share your soccer jokes with us? We wanna laugh too. We just don't understand the humor but we're willing to listen if you care to explain. I'll tell a few knock-knock jokes in return to show my gratitude.:cheers:
So why are Fulham fans complaining about their £1M statue of Michael Jackson when Chelsea paid £50M for theirs?
You're on your own, Dino.....
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Re: Bad things happening in London
Quote:
Originally Posted by
robertlouis
And in doing so led the most socially divisive government in this country's history since Charles I provoked civil war.
Thatcherism's contribution to the last week's events in terms of the creation of attitudes is all too obvious - the creed of me first and fuck you, greed is good, destruction of industries and communities with nothing structural to compensate, and the accelerated growth of a burgeoning underclass estranged from the rest of society and society's moral principles and standards.
We hear plenty about "misguided mollycoddling" ( (c) The Daily Mail), but hardly anything about the right's huge contribution to the varied factors that have led to this week's disgraceful events.
As Noam Chomsky has pointed out: we're taught from childhood and through school and TV etc. etc. that you should only care about yourself. No one else matters.
You know: gain wealth forget all but self. And it actually goes against fundamental human attributes which are: sympathy and concern for others.
But the culture -- be it England or America -- is intent on driving that out of us. Ya know, no one else matters. That philosophy has brought about a cultural malaise.
NOAM CHOMSKY: Gain wealth, forget all but self (THE CORPORATION) - YouTube
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Re: Bad things happening in London
Selfishness is part and parcel of corporate culture... which has become the culture. We adopt, as it were, corporate values. Not human values. Like sympathy for others. But corporate values like, well, the new i pad -- :)
Externalities - YouTube
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Re: Bad things happening in London
Quote:
Originally Posted by
robertlouis
So why are Fulham fans complaining about their £1M statue of Michael Jackson when Chelsea paid £50M for theirs?
You're on your own, Dino.....
Let me try...
Ummmmm...
OK... Remember, I'm not British, OK?
Here goes...
So why are Fulham fans complaining about their £1M statue of Michael Jackson when Chelsea paid £50M for theirs?
Since the death of Michael Jackson, Chelsea began a marketing campaign that this statue is "Just like shagging the real thing!".
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Re: Bad things happening in London
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dino Velvet
Let me try...
Ummmmm...
OK... Remember, I'm not British, OK?
Here goes...
So why are Fulham fans complaining about their £1M statue of Michael Jackson when Chelsea paid £50M for theirs?
Since the death of Michael Jackson, Chelsea began a marketing campaign that this statue is "Just like shagging the real thing!".
Good try, here's the real story.
Just before the Fulham chairman unveiled his statue of Michael Jackson, Chelsea paid Liverpool £50M for their Spanish striker Fernando Torres, who took something like 15 matches to score his first goal for them.
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Re: Bad things happening in London
Quote:
Originally Posted by
robertlouis
Good try, here's the real story.
Just before the Fulham chairman unveiled his statue of Michael Jackson, Chelsea paid Liverpool £50M for their Spanish striker Fernando Torres, who took something like 15 matches to score his first goal for them.
Fernando Torres IS a statue, right?
Necrophilia jokes are all the rage with the young hipsters these days though.
