I'm fond of saying "when you have found that you have dug yourself into a hole, the solution is rarely 'more digging' ".
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I'm fond of saying "when you have found that you have dug yourself into a hole, the solution is rarely 'more digging' ".
I hope you're not referring to me. Seanchai already told be he won't shoot me again so I'm hardly digging. If anything, he's digging since he's fighting someone who has nothing left to lose in regards to him. I've already suffered the consequences so why would he continue to argue with me unless I had a point or two that he cared to refute? Well, at least he takes me seriously. I'll respect him for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by slinky
~BB~
Prior to this shoot but based on your comments below, you'd certainly go into the "never work with again" pile. It's nothing political, your just a little shit.Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaBellucci
What a horrible thing to say. We don't have any "monsters" on our site. We have some models in various states of transition, and some not as attractive as others but in over 12 yrs running this site, I'll give many girls a first shot and see how they do. Some of the ones YOU might call monsters turned out to be beautiful tgirls and if with discouragement and nasty comments from your ilk, they might never have had that opportunity.Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaBellucci
I never said it was wrong. I said it was dull and shows how little you know, and how far your reaching to starting bringing up what other people might think of me. I didn't have to comment on what I've heard about you and your social skills.Quote:
Originally Posted by bellabellucci
Huh !?!?!Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaBellucci
a) who the fuck appointed you the chief witch hunter? So now you have the say on which models are "worthy". You insidiuous, nasty little shit.
b) "another criticism of Yum" hmmm ... yeah, it's such a failure of a website. The fact it, like it or not, the site and it's ethos works. It doesn't need to be validated by you.
c) YOU are not protecting the industry Bella. Your just putting across your personal opinions and trying to enforce them.
Talk about egomaniac. Your out of control.
It does make you a hypocrite because until many of those models have done a shoot, we don't know how they willbe received. In your Nazi standards, we'd only shoot girls that you deem worthy. Why is anyone whose not a member concerned about "my site" and how does it make the niche look cheap, have you seriously seen what's out there making sites look cheap. Many girls who started off as part-time dressers on our site were given the encouragement to take the leap to full time but of course you don't give a shit about them because they again, don't fit your standard.Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaBellucci
"Shemales" doesn't just mean "transsexuals" - CD and TV can fit in there, if appropriate.
Wow, I can't believe just how nasty one individual can turn and show her true colours so fast. I've also never heard a tgirl turn on so many other girls like you have. Your a disgrace to transsexuals who work in this industry.
Trust me, the last thing I want is your respect, as for you, after your previous statement, I have none.Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaBellucci
I do take you seriously and my comment above that I think your an absolute disgrace to transsexuals in this industry, an insidious little shit and that no self-respecting transgender model would want you as an "activist" :roll: or an associate.
Blah, blah, blah, blah. 'Shemale.' Blah, blah, blah.
So even as you attempt to defend everyone within the so-called transgender umbrella you continue to use the slur 'shemale.' It's barely acceptable as an industry term and wholly unnecessary here, but you just go ahead and use it anyway, don't you? So as you portend to be the savior of all things trans, you slur the very people you claim to protect. Nice!
Plus you're resorting to word-warping now which is something people do when they're backed up against a wall by truth and logic. I didn't intend to pick a personal fight with you so I'm done. Thanks for providing me with the productive discussion that I was seeking. :roll:
I'm done.
~BB~
Yes you are.Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaBellucci
I don't get it. You'll shoot under the banner of Shemale* and then regard it as a slur after you don't receive a photoshoot that you like? If you were so against it in the first place why wouldn't you save your photoshoots for another company without the said slur in the name?Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaBellucci
You seem to have a case of sour grapes. Deal.
Bella,
Don't you think it's at least a tiny little bit hypocritical to first complain that a site isn't making the girls look the best they possibly can and then turn around and call some of the models monsters?
Here we go again with this. DO I really have to explain it again? I don't NAME the sites. I can only try to help change the way the business operates incrementally and I certainly can't do so unless I get involved in it, now can I? Geez.Quote:
Originally Posted by tslvrnyc
~BB~
No, not at all. In fact it's exactly what I'm talking about. Some girls have no business modeling on a site that primarily focuses on transsexuals as they are clearly transvestites, and some could just use a little bit of help, which they would likely appreciate, but don't receive. The models are left entirely to their own devices which only highlights their hair and makeup skills, not their inner beauty. I don't think that's right and it's certainly not good for business in my estimation. Would it really break the bank to provide them with a makeup artist and a little direction? I mean look at Tempest and other independent producers - they put their heart and soul into their work at a loss. Now I'm hardly advocating that the major studios should follow suit, but girls shouldn't have to do everything themselves especially when they have to pick up makeup and wardrobe costs as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by slinky
I appreciate that Yum gives new models a chance to shoot, but they don't really give them a chance to succeed. Transsexual models don't just grow on trees you know and the niche is dependent upon the assumption that every TS defines their femininity solely by an oversexualized appearance even before they begin their careers and if they don't, well, the hell with them. Let 'em fail! I mean, a lot of GG porn stars are just regular girls next door when they start and are then developed as talent. There's very little development of TS models IMHO.
And yes, everything I've written here is JUST my opinion - which is something I've made clear from the beginning. If anybody takes personal offense it says much more about then than it does me.
~BB~
You might want to stop, while you're already behind.Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaBellucci
Please please please dont anyone else respond. I bartend and honestly this is like arguing with a drunk. At the beginning of this alot of people were very kind and very professional. The gist was your sets don't sell but maybe later. Now it has gotten ridiculous.
She'll take a check from Shemale...fill in the blank...Yum, Strokers, Club but these are companies that degrade transexuals, she isn't a hypocrite.
She's not only a worthy model but one that should be shot again, by these same vile degrading companies, much better than the, in her words, "monsters" they normally shoot.
Let it go, the choices to end this are let her rip me the next post and just let it go, lock the thread, or drop the hammer, which is what she is shooting for anyways.
This from the guy who just as righteously as he claims I am proclaimed that he would make peace between Hara and Nicole. I mean GODS, just look at your screen name. YOU'RE one to talk. :roll:Quote:
Originally Posted by Peacetalks
~BB~
So you speak for me now? Interesting. I didn't realize I had a spokeperson to divulge my intentions. Hmm.Quote:
Originally Posted by shemale-411
Well I hate to burst your bubble but I don't intend on ripping on anyone and I never did. In fact I've been nothing but professional this entire time. No name calling, no yelling and screaming. I intended to have a productive discussion and that intention hasn't changed.
~BB~
What shemale-411 said.
The problem exists where I don't understand your aversion to the term "shemale" while you model for sites with that in the name. Please tell me how you reconcile your loathing for the name with your desire to pose for such sites. It makes no sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaBellucci
Repeatedly asking the question isn't going to change my answer. But thanks for playing.Quote:
Originally Posted by tslvrnyc
~BB~
A few hundred bucks will turn most transsexual porn activists into money-hungry, butt spreading, shemales!Quote:
Originally Posted by tslvrnyc
http://www.freefoto.com/images/04/28...-Bills_web.jpg
Actually, you have it backwards. :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Peacetalks
~BB~
I personally take great offense to some of the things you have said here. Considering you have told me how much you respect me and how I express myself here, what more does that say about me than it emphasizes about you?Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaBellucci
FK
I'm sorry if that's the case, but since you already know I respect you it should be clear that I'm not referring to you. How could you possibly be insulted? Because I didn't specifically exclude you from a blanket statement?Quote:
Originally Posted by Felicia Katt
~BB~
Maybe so, but you have antagonized the people you want to influence. GG Sharon Mitchell founded AIM Healthcare. TG Meghan Chavalier created Stop the Hate website. Tell us about your activism.Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaBellucci
Seanchai has been more of an activist than you: http://www.stoppingthehate.com/News-..._Chavalier.htm
Oh yeah, so all of the political work I've done since I was 12 means nothing because it wasn't trans related? I think at last count I was involved with 7, maybe 8 campaigns for social liberals from the local to national level, increasing in importance with each. Come on with that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peacetalks
Just because I don't brag about my altruism doesn't mean I don't have any. People don't get to be as headstrong as I am by doing nothing in the face of adversity.
But oh, that's right, you feel my anger comes from a place of personal pride. Please. I think WAY bigger than that.
~BB~
I don't think I agree with this. You can't really depend on the producers to tell you what to do all the time or how to look better or how to model.Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaBellucci
There are many great examples of development with TS models. Just to name a few...Holly Sweet, Celeste, Danielle Foxx, and even myself. There are tons more. Just look at their old photos on yum and how they have evolved. You can do that on yum by the way because they are one of the few sites that does shoot a girl who is evolving and starting out.
Speaking for myself, I can tell you that after I did my first shoot with yum and it came out bad, I went back to the drawing board all by myself and came back and have had success since then and continue to work with Grooby who started me out and even gave me a second chance.
Interestingly enough, the two most destructive deadly sins.Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaBellucci
This is like a trainwreck in slow motion.
Vicki Richter's advice to me was (paraphrasing, mostly), "Don't trust your webmaster to retouch your photos. Do it yourself. They'll never have the emotional investment in those photos that you do." That sums up what I'm about to say.
Bella, find a good shooter who will work for... whatever. Use your imagination here, if you're short on petty cash. lol ... and build your own site. This is all about content/product, not politics/morals. If the average shemale porn lover isn't ready to call this niche, "transgender porn", there's nothing any of us can do. The phenomenon simply isn't ripe on the vine.
Sure, if you want to be a martyr, no one here will stop you. We may suggest that you back off, and stop wasting your time. We aren't happy to see you fail at porn or crusading. But you're getting pretty valuable advice and solid wisdom on this thread, and you seem against taking it. But you're just like lots of people. I've noticed that most people are actually pretty bad about taking advice. They always do what they want, even when they nod their heads. I know I do. And it keeps life interesting. ;)
For instance, who in their right mind would've thought that photographs of women with penises would have made $? Not my parents, I can assure you. lol Back then? Gay people were getting EST and lobotomies. But when the time was right, and the social climate allowed for it, it happened. But you could've never forced a thing like that on people, or you would've been... Well, "dead", actually. lol
But it's an exciting time to be alive and chicks with dicks are not only pulling up the rear, but they're fucking it cross-eyed too. However, if you get too far ahead, and step too far out of pace? If foresight and altruism fail you? Don't be pissed at anyone. It won't like we were hoping you'd waste your time. But by the same token, you can't expect us to waste too much time pointing out that you're wasting too much of your time.
Baby girl, the fans', subscribers', or porn buyers' hard dicks don't do much thinking. And Seanchai has no emotional investment in who succeeds or fails in this industry. Don't for a hot red second think he does. I know he's not that dumb. He puts ALL of us out on Main St, and some of us werk it out and some don't.
Get a shooter, get your content together, get a site, make some mistakes, learn from them, move forward, enjoy your life, and carve a NEW niche with a NEW name. And I'll even, secretly, be routing for you. ;)
Ok. Rant over. Night night.
Producers don't have the time to sit there and photoshop every photo set they shoot, let alone go through each 100-200 photo set to intentionally pick out the bad ones. Personally I don't retouch any of the work I shoot for Shemale-club, nor do I retouch my own content on my own solo site. Fuck em if they don't like my look on any particular scene. I fuck for the sport of it, not for the glamor. And, fuck photoshop. Ask my chicago girls morgan bailey, kelly shore and many others...
Take Buddy Wood for example. He's one of the most creative film makers and a darn productive producer. He probably barely has time to shoot the hot models he has available to him in LA. So his work likely gets sent to an editor who then does whatever they do with the content. You are a brand and there's a team of people following a business model to put out the best work that business model allows. Strokers and Grooby sites seem to be successful site, they probably have a good idea of what sells and what doesnt.
When I shoot a set of a model for shemale-club for example, sometimes ill let the model go through the set and ill delete the ones she really hates. However that becomes tricky since most models focus on what they see as flaws, and not what sells. So its a pain in the ass for a producer to give that creative control to the model. They'll be making money off your set for years. You just got paid several hundered dollars and you're done making money on that one.
You want to control your image? Stop whining like a victim and start producing your own content your way. You will either sell or you won't. If you look at girls like the Shemale-club solo site girls or girls like grooby's hazel tucker and amy daly and whoever else I do not know but, they control part of their image. Their content, their way with the help of a very talented producer (buddy wood)
Producers and models (in the porn industry) arguing over stupid shit like genetic female women (the bleeding type). It's as interesting as a donkeys ass
Thanks for the advice girls. I always kind of knew the score so I already had ideas with which to hatch a new career plan and I'm already starting to put it together with some new people who I trust.
'Trust' - maybe the biggest 5-letter word in the entire dictionary! :lol:
~BB~
Trust your heart. Trust yourself. You can't trust hard dicks. They have no conscience and never have, and they're the mother and father of all businesses, and always have been. And they, ultimately, make the rules everywhere you look.Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaBellucci
But I still think that's kinda sad; you giving up because you wanna "hatch a new career plan" now. Why not shoot your own content while you're doing that? What could it hurt? If anything, maybe the people you'd like to sway to your way of seeing things will trust you more. All it takes is a barter with a decent shooter, and the content will "hatch"; YOUR content. You already escort, so what wrong with a trade?
Anyway...
First off, let me say that I'm new here, so I apologize in advance if I'm speaking out of turn...
Secondly, I have not read all the posts in this thread, but did skim over them...again, I apologize if I'm breaching etiquitte. I don't mean to skip the double-dog-dare and go straight for the throat with the dreaded triple-dog-dare.
I work as a writer and photographer. When I shoot an image set for a client, or write an article for sale in the marketplace, it's nearly impossible to know what the outcome of content production will be. If I'm hired to shoot/write, then I shoot/write what the client wants, turn it over, and deposit my check. If I shoot/write content to sell, I shoot/write the content (at my cost), find a buyer or buyers for the content, and hope like a mother it sells. Then I take my check to the bank.
The first lesson I learned long ago is that few things remain as they began after being in the hands of editors.
Editors exist for a reason. They know (or should know) their marketplace. Like an art gallery director, they know what will and will not sell in their space. In my days of gallery exhibitions, work that I thought was stellar would routinely be passed over in favor of work I thought was blah - showable, but still blah. More often than not, when I pushed to hang my stellar work, it was almost always outsold by the blah work.
The second lesson I learned long ago: editors are always right.
Those lessons apply whether the content is pictures, text, or both.
I'm sure we can all agree it can't be ignored that some sets, particulary in porn, (without regard to niche), are simply poorly planned and executed. We've all seen shots in which the model's eyes are at half-blink; shots that are too dark or too bright; we've even seen shots that are very badly out of focus or just simply bad. Looking at some of these sets, I've often had the impression the photographer turned over the CF card to the webmaster and everything from the card was publsihed without second thought.
I understand that customers demand sites publish sets numbering 100 images or more. I know for a fact the number of images shot for an average web content set is in the high hundreds. I also understand post work can be time consuming, but it should be a relatively simple matter to eliminate the 'non-keepers'; the worst of the worst. Post tools in current versions of PhotoShop and/or Lightroom or Aperture really streamline workflows, especially when factors such as lighting and exposure are a constant - as they would be with a set shot in studio. Well, more or less.
As for my own work, I would never shoot content without doing it professionally. Being an established freelancer, it's a simple matter for me to call in a make-up and style team. Whether the client is willing to pay for it or not - that's another matter.
Clearly, as has been mentioned, being uber-professional gets you noticed.
Who said I'm giving up? When I say 'new career plan,' it doesn't mean a career change.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicole Dupre
Thanks for the vote of confidence though! lol
~BB~
i can't stand when the girls and photographers claim that their pictures are not photoshopped or shot with some type of lens or flash which hides imperfections .
I'm also a pro-photographer, and I can say with great confidence that there is no "un-suck" filter or device, either real or in PhotoShop. I wish there was, but such a thing doesn't exist.
Good lighting, make-up, styling, and careful attention to detail are required to make the best picture. A good photographer, and especially a good photographer with a good team will do all of this. Even so, every photograph requires some post shoot manipulation and clean up. Models that think their pictures aren't retouched to some degree are fooling themselves.
Doing everything possible to get the shot right in camera saves time and money, and always makes the picture the best it can be.
I just re-read this and something bugs me. I don't recall whining. I recall asking a rhetorical question and having one person in particular internalize it when neither his name nor company was mentioned and then having that person resort to personal attacks. Had he never spoken up, nobody would have had a clue who I was talking about. I didn't even leave a hint about to whom I was talking and I most certainly did not whine, even after being insulted.Quote:
Originally Posted by TSMissJasmine
And as I said. I got my answers and I have a new plan.
~BB~