I won´t laugh at you, I think your thaughts are interesting. I just don´t agree with them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coroner
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I won´t laugh at you, I think your thaughts are interesting. I just don´t agree with them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coroner
By the strictest medical terms, a transexual is a person whom believes they were born/are the wrong sex. That is to say they identify (on a sliding scale), with being the opposite gender of what they were born.
When the term/diagnosis was "made up" it had to be made clear that such persons abhored their natural physical being and wished to be made into the other. This was the only way doctors could legally and ethically justify removing healthy and working body parts such as penis for no other reason than the patient wished it so.
Over the past 40 or so years since Harry Benjamin did his work on transexuals, entire sub-groups have developed, and the entire term "transexual" has changed, at least perhaps on the street to encompas a wide scope of persons, including transvestites and drag queens. For there are many, many persons of the later two category that will take hormones and or have certian operations done to enhance a feminine appearance, but have absolutely NO intention of having a sex change operation, nor consider themselves "women" even a minority of time.
Now, trannies and the men who love them can call things what they like; but there are still only two types of sex in nature, gay and straight. You can dress up pre-op TS sex in a corset and stockings, and it still would be considered having sex with a male by medical standards.
Under the "old" theory, a true TS didn't like their sexual parts for the most part, and or were at least uncomfortable (again along a sliding scale), with using them for sexual pleasure. However today there is a sub-set of persons who consider themselves true transexuals, but have no intention of having any sort of operation, yet still wish to be come as feminine in looks as possible. Some enjoy and use their sexual organs, others do not (again along a sliding scale).
This is where the gap between some transexuals and the men who love them comes up. Time and again you have seen posted here that there are girls who don't want men who are "gay" or into their "male" parts, or for that matter are too comfortable with them being TS. Instead they prefer "straight" men who are not "into" transexuals, or at least were'nt until they met them, and consider them as "st8" women.
On the male side, you have men who seek transexuals of varying degrees, for various reasons. Many of those reasons mimic some found in the gay male sex world. Their are "tops" only, "bottoms" only. Men who will perform oral on a TS, those that will only receive. Men that consider themselves "straight", yet still engage in passive oral and anal sex with a male pre-op.
As for dating transexuals being a "fetish", guess that depends on how the particular man feels about transexuals in not only in realtion to sex,but romantically as well.
Sadly the Western world does not recongise transexuals as a third sex, and bases sexuality (again on a sliding scale) of a person's sexuality a majority of the time. A st8 man who engages in gay sex because he is in prison or at war, is not considered "gay" because his main choice would be a woman if circumstances were different. However men being a horny lot in general, he takes what is on offer at the moment. A man dating a transexual, depending upon the sexual acts by the strictest of terms is considered engaging in male gay sex, again regardless of what they and the TS tell themselves. This I think is one of the reason's why many girls get kind of ticked off when they meet guys who are interested mainly in touching and using their "male" body parts. Here you have what appears to be a girl, and in some cases a VERY attractive girl, who considers herself (or is trying to), a woman. Now you have man who is outwardly attracted to the same person because they appear to be an attractive woman, but have a penis.
Having lived as a girl for some time now, can honestly say think the "problem" with the TS community, including those who are attracted to/love them is this profound discomfort many on each side have with themselves and what they are seeking. Cannot count anymore how many times I've had to listen a trannie gf wail about not having a man, then BAM! She meets a guy who has it all: looks, job, personality, body, or even if he is just a decent normal guy, it follows almost as night after day that within a few weeks the phone calls start. "Girl, I can't take him anymore, all he wants to do is .... or ....." Or I'll hear she is seeing other men/turning dates behind the guy's back , and so it goes.
From the guys one hears "I just want a girl (transexual) who is happy with what she has and comfortable using it)..
Personally, I think unless one is planning on living in some uptight community or is a public figure that needs to conform to something, just drop the labels and be happy with whomever or whatever gives you joy, long as it is legal.
that's fine but you should know that when you disagree with facts you are either misinformed or in denial.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coroner
does it matter what label someone gives you?
as long as you know what you are yourself and are happy with that,never mind what anyone else thinks.
i know it can be hard to ignore,but you will always get someone who will try to bring you down,just ignore it and love yourself.
I'm skipping far ahead on this one because I have scragged yet another laptop with an XP update and have therefore missed two daze worth of posts.
However...
Based on the few posts I've caught up on, I relate this story:
I knew a couple (She: Lesbian, he: open-minded) some years ago who were fairly active in the gay rights movement (Which, in and of itself, is too limiting in its title).
After a press conference in Virginia, a reporter approached the woman and asked some questions pertaining to her sexuality. During the nterview, she pointed out that though she was dyke, she was alo married. The reporter assumed "To another woman?" and, pointing across the room, she said "No, to that man, there!".
Intrigued, the reporter approached her spouse and said "So, you are married to that woman? You're heterosexual then?". My friend replied, "No!".
The reporter, quite sure of themselves, then said "Oh, of course! You're bisexual!", to which my friend replied "Nope!".
Confused, the reporter asked "Then...You're homosexual?". To which my friend replied "No, I'm just sexual!" and walked over to join his wife.
Throughout history people have equated gender with sexuality and vice-versa. While it might behoove some to try and educate the masses, there is really only one person that you need to convince of the differences and defintions.
That is yourself.
Here's an interesting article I came across today, from an address given by Christine Burns in 1997 entitled Woman Plus Or how to forget the label and concentrate on the quality of the cloth. She writes:
and goes on to say:Quote:
It started with a discussion that is hardly new, about the semantics of the term "transsexual" … the effects of its’ common usage as a noun rather than an adjective, the confusion and misunderstanding caused by the root word "sexual" which it is based on, and whether or not the prefix "trans" makes the word meaningful, even as an adjective, after the completion of an individual’s physical journey from one anatomical model to the other.
Very interesting; you can read the entire address here.Quote:
For some people, this gets dressed up as an argument about technical semantics … questions of whether the prefix "trans" is appropriate when you’ve stopped, or whether "sexual" means the whole word is etymologically flawed from the outset.
I'm a bit late. Some good comments have been made.
How about this - "If it floats your boat and feels good - DO IT!"
We spend too much time trying to define and label each other and not enough time accepting ourselves and educating others about us.
Shining Star - good comments and so true. It's hard for many t-girls to maintain long term relationships.
Does anyone have any figures on if this changes after SRS? Meaning do post-ops enjoy longer relationships more in line with GG's?
And why is it that so many men who want to have sex with us, but are afraid to be seen in public with us? (And I'm referring to "passable" t-girls, not someone who's going to cause stares.)
Huh?
TS Jamie :-)
In Austria, a person is classified as transsexual after the psychiatrist confirms it. After that, the medical insurance pays all the surgeries the person undergoes. This means that a transsexual person is recognized as being in the wrong body and gets the support to look outside the way it feels inside. Science has broken the societal rules a long time ago and you can´t compare the position of science from about 50 years ago to it´s present position.Quote:
Originally Posted by SmashysmashY
Sex-Lexis gives "transfan" as "A person sympathetic or attracted to transgendered people," but while this is to me preferrable to "tranny chaser" and other derogatory terms, it still falls well short of the mark.
I've been looking for a prefix with the same meaning as trans- but so far without success.
To all the posters saying, forget the labels, be who you are, etc...I have and am doing that. And while the quip about being "sexual" is all witty and whatnot, it's more of a quip than anything real the person has decided for themselves.
My point in all of this is that there is no positive term that defines men who are attracted to, accept, and support transsexuals. I put myself out on alimb in this thread to get to the bottom of it. And what am I finding? More of the same old, same old. Saying it's a fetish, derision thrown at the men who are attracted by transsexuals, and so on. It's almost like an internalized transphobia. We get that from the rest of the world, why do we have to get it from the very same community we're part of. I'm proud of who I am. I'm not a serial dater. I'm not married. I'm not in the closet. I only enter into monogamous relationships. I don't cheat. i don't chase. I'm involved in the community. I'm trying to make a difference in the community through my work. I'm not fixated on the penis, or sucking, or being a bottom, or being a top. I just don't get what the problem is with me and who I am and others like me.
DISCLAMER: I'm tired, they're starting construction in my bathroom tomorrow, and i'm in a shiatty mood from hearing the same things again and again for 20 odd years now. And people wonder why nothing changes? This thread is a perfect example of why. Holy shiat...when did I get so bitter? :)
Thanks for continuing the search, Ecstatic.
Hey e, hope the bathroom construction goes well. Over the past few years my wife and I have been gradually remodeling, first a wraparound deck, then the kitchen (awesome kitchen), then a finished room in the basement (my photo studio), then a front porch, and most recently the bathroom. A work in progress, like my life.
Anywho, I know where you're coming from. In all likelihood, had I not met my wonderful wife over 30 years ago, I would most likely be in more or less the same position you are (except a bit older, lol). Keep on keeping on....
Not all men are. Just the weak ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by justatransgirl
[quote="whatsupwithat"]To all the posters saying, forget the labels, be who you are, etc...I have and am doing that. And while the quip about being "sexual" is all witty and whatnot, it's more of a quip than anything real the person has decided for themselves.
My point in all of this is that there is no positive term that defines men who are attracted to, accept, and support transsexuals. I put myself out on alimb in this thread to get to the bottom of it. And what am I finding? More of the same old, same old. Saying it's a fetish, derision thrown at the men who are attracted by transsexuals, and so on. It's almost like an internalized transphobia. We get that from the rest of the world, why do we have to get it from the very same community we're part of. I'm proud of who I am. I'm not a serial dater. I'm not married. I'm not in the closet. I only enter into monogamous relationships. I don't cheat. i don't chase. I'm involved in the community. I'm trying to make a difference in the community through my work. I'm not fixated on the penis, or sucking, or being a bottom, or being a top. I just don't get what the problem is with me and who I am and others like me.
Like you, I've been at this over 20 years. Thank you for the positive attitude!
Sex After Post-Op
Much of the studies done on post-op transexuals do not offer much hope that the operation makes anyone more "happy" or at ease with themselves than before. In fact so much of the opposite was becoming known places like the Harry Benjamin Center, pioneers in TS work, stopped doing the operation.
If the stated medical goal of putting a TS through hormones, and various operations was for them to lead happy lives as "St8" women or men, then by a long shot, according to studies the process is a failure. Why?
A high percentage of post-op MTF's enter into lesbian realtionships. Studies vary as to the exact amount and weahter or not this attraction to women was there all the time, or weather such transgendered women cannot find a male "st8" partner. What is obvious is that the males in the transgender community by and large wish to have a pre-op transgendered person ,if any when it comes to a relationship/sex, and St* men seek GGs.
One group of post op TS's however do end up "happy"; and report the most "well adjusted"; and that is the group many in the TS community label "men in dresses". TS women who change later in life (usually after marrying and having children/reaching middle age), are happiest. Unlike some younger girls, their image is not tied into their looks and the scene/man chasing. They fully realise they may forever be called "a man" when walking down the street, but they do suffer from a profound unhappiness with their current gender, and are willing to accept the trade-offs for some peace of mind.
Oh, there is also the trannie "urban myth" that many post-ops go "crazy" because they no longer can have orgasms. While many post op girls do report having orgasms, including several I know; most of those same girls wouldn't tell me the sky was blue if the sun was out in daylight.
These are probably one of the greatest factors in many girls choosing to remain "non-op". You only have to look at the post op girls who switch from Eros Ts section to the GG section and what they go through to get an idea.
"WhatsUpWithDat"
A cool tall drink of water like yourself shouldn't worry (not that you are), about what people think. A girl (GG or TS) that lands a man such as yourself with a good outlook on life/things should be happy. May have to send my picture over to your MySpace site and apply for a postion should an opening come along! *LOL*
Bottom line is transgendered persons, and those that love them are going to have a bit longer hauling the heavy load. While gay male, in particular white gay male population and lesbians are making huge strides in terms of social acceptance (who ever thought you'd hear "his husband' uttered with such ease as one heard on the subway the other day, but there we are.
However will say I know of one or two transgendered women (pre-op) who are living quite happy lives here in NYC, with long term partners (male). One is a nurse and the other a social worker. Like many gay couples in NYC< they simply go about their business as if everything is normal, because to them it is, and that is what matters.
Think many transgendered girls, especially the young ones, take up residence in Pity Me Pines Apartments, and blame the world for forcing them into "working", and resenting the men they attract because they in fact don't like themselves. But guess what, this is 2007, not 1977 or even 1987; and it does warm my heart to see some young transgirls strolling around NYU's campus behaving exactly like young students should.
A long time ago, I decided I was not going to let what I was stand in my way of making the most of my life. Have I made mistakes? Sure, who hasn't in their lives, but just like those people who are born with a severe handicap or badly disabled later in life, you have two choices; you can get busy living or get busy dying. Someone doesn't like me because I am a TS. Fine, they don't pay my rent, and quite honestly aside from my family and a few close friends, I don't give a rat's butt what people "think" of me anyway. Just keep out of my way and don't even think of starting any trouble, and we'll get along fine. *LOL*
As for the men who date trannies: Well many of you need to pick a team. Can you imagine how it makes anyone feel; gay, straight, trannie, male or female when the only time you will see them is indoors and really only for sex? Worse to be ignored or cut in public by the same man who was on your trade the night before like a monkey on a cupcake. Like many transgendered girls I've had my share of winners. Calls at 1am in the morning from some guy who wants to come over because "I'm in your neighborhood", or finding out a guy you have been seeing is getting married/moving in with his GF: only to call you several weeks later to "come over and play". Heck I've had them call me on their first day back after the honeymoon, or even better while their wife is in labour having THEIR baby.
I don't think I will ever forget "the same man who was on your trade the night before like a monkey on a cupcake.". That line alone made this entire thread worthwhile! haha!
And what you said about the married guys...spot on. I hear the same stories from so many other girls.
Please keep writing. I'm loving what you have to say. :)
well at this time i"m married,but not living together.
nothing to do with anyone else,just we took a risk to get married as she is from another country,but never worked out.
we will get divorced as soon as 1 of us meets someone we want to spend the rest of our lifes with.
o go on i"m sure someone will label me now :)
I can't explain my interest in transsexuals either. All I know is I am now 27, until the age of 23/24 I had never even really thought about what a transsexual is and if I had I certainly did not assume that I would find them attractive in even a remote way. I was always in relationships be they just sexual or more meaningful with GG's and that was my preference. The fact that I am from England and a place with no transsexual community to speak of probably added to this lack of consideration, I guess what I am saying is it was never something I was confronted with, therefore it was something I never pondered in any great detail. If anything the faint impression and image stored in my mind was properly of a man in drag. So when one day about 4 years ago I was watching a show called Sexcetera (basically a documentary style program about sex around the world) and it had a feature on vanity where she was naked. I was so shocked to see this beautiful women with a penis between her legs, I know she is not the norm of what a transsexual looks like but even the mere fact that this term I only had heard in passing (a transsexual) could look like this simply fascinated me. It was the contrast of her femininity combined with her penis, it was like the way I had been brought up, my sense of sexuality and my understanding of human anatomy were all challenged there and then in that very moment. It was almost as if something that should look so wrong to the way my mind was supposed to work just looked so right.
Then within a day I was on my computer searching firstly for anything to do with Vanity which soon turned into transsexuals in general, and before I knew it I was ordering lots of DVDs in that genre and basically jacking off almost every night to them. In the years that followed I would have girlfriends but found myself wishing they had a cock or loosing interest quickly because they did not.
Then a year ago I joined Hung angels looking for cock pics and armed with a pretty shit attitude to what transsexuals had to offer me and society its self. I will make no bones about the fact I saw them only as objects for my sexual gratification. In the year or so I have been a member I have definitely changed allot. I know longer see them as sexual objects or even obsess about them simply because I realize they are just normal people who have taken a slightly different path in life. All I know is I like the female form, the fact that when I see a cock between that forms legs I find it attractive is really not that bigger deal. Whether I end up growing old with a GG or TS (pre op or post op) really does not bother me in the slightest. Every person is different I have always made a point not judging a people on the race, colour, sexual preference or in this case gender but rather on the individual they are. It seems like all transsexuals (male to female) are put into one group, when in reality the only thing they actually have in common is that they have or have had a penis and started there life as males. Surely there are much more deciding and important factors to judge a person on than this, their beliefs, their values, the love they have to offer or even something as superficial as how physically attractive you find them.
I guess what I am saying is that if you only find transsexuals attractive that is cool, just go with it as long as your interests run much deeper than just the penis which I am sure they do. After all the fact that you have this preference is not your fault, but simply the way you feel. It is alien to me as I find GGs just as attractive, no different to the concept of me liking transsexuals being alien to allot of people I know. What's the difference really you still are attracted by the female form you just prefer them to have a penis. It’s just a preference thing, if you consider all GGs and TS's simply as women then it is not that different to preferring Red Heads or short women, it’s your taste you like your girls to have a cock. Luckily for you there are many hot TS's that do so simply just enjoy the fact there is and have fun.
haha! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by andyuk
You guys crack me up with this "hot TS" bit. Why does it always have to be a hot TS. Does this mean you give a pass to a girl who is not "hot"?
One wouldn't mind,but for the frequent loud noise from men who aren't GQ or Men's Fittness magazine model material, how most TS girls are only interested in the young, handsome bucks, and won't give an average Joe the time of day.
I've dated "hot" men, and I've dated "normal" run of the mill guys. And quite honestly I prefer average guys (ok, they have to be in shape as I work out lead a healthy lifestyle), than the male model types. Ever see what happens to a goodlooking guy when he goes into a club with his date? Right way you can see girls plotting to take that man from his gf. Ever see a goodlooking guy at a trannie bar? More likely than not his gf won't leave him even to go to the bathroom, because she KNOWS there are girls in that room plotting and scheming! *LOL*
My point is that there are lots f plain ordinary girls out there. Since they don't "work" they don't have the money and maybe not even the desire to go through all that is required to be "hot". I'm not saying they are woofs, just average looking like 98% of the girls walking around. Look beyond the hottness and you'll likely find something beautiful.
SS
you get my point though?Quote:
Originally Posted by whatsupwithat
we are all individual,and all have different life experiences.
so i dont see how anyone can put a label on anyone.
sure i have made mistakes in life.
but i dont think anyone was born perfect.
as long as your honest with the person you date or marry or whatever
then i dont see a problem
i have not even been out with anyone for over 2 years,as i"m not into 1 night stands and did not want to meet anyone on the rebound
only this last few months i have started to think about dating again
Well what can I say, I like hot girls be they ts or not. Sorry if you got the wrong impression obviously just because someone is not hot does not make them less of a person, and I don't remember saying it does.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shining Star
I go for girls who find hot, personality is great and very important but if I don't find someone physically attractive what is the point. I guess I define hot as what I find attractive. I am not going to feel guilty about saying I prefer pretty girls. Like I said that is just me and I am happy to admit it.
Everyone is so consumed by labels, by what makes a male a male, and a female, a female, and what it means to be attracted to one or the other or both. But ultimately, all of the things that we think of to divide male from female: hair and skin and body size and shape and breasts, are all secondary sexual characteristics, and as such, they differentiate but they don't define. For human beings, there is only really one primary sexual characteristic, and for better or worse, thats the external genitalia. You can talk about genetics and xx and xy and xyy and all the chromosonal variations, but ultimately, how those genes are expressed physically is what counts. Males have penises, female have vaginas
But Male is not man and female is not woman. Your anatomy is not your gender, which is much more of a psychological construct than a physical absolute. Genitals are not what makes a man a man, or woman, a woman. Having a penis doesn't make you a man, or exclude you from being a woman. Your gender is between your ears, not your legs.
Same with homo vs heterosexuaL. homo=same. hetero=different. In the strict, literal sense of the terms, if you have a penis and your partner has one as well, that is a homosexual act.
But homosexual isn't the same as gay, just like hetero isn't the same as straight. Gay and Straight are social and cultural constructs, not easy absolutes. Being gay or straight is more about who you are attracted to, and why, and how you interact with them, and how you interrelate to the rest of the world. Being "gay" is more of a social poltical identity than a sexual one, just as being straight is. If an open admitted gay guy becomes celibate, he is still gay. If he sleeps with women, I would argue he is still gay as well. A man who is attracted to a transgendered woman can be straight. but he can't technically claim to be wholly heterosexual.
The term transsexual is an unfortunate one, because unlike homo and heterosexual, being transsexual is not about sex, its about gender. If they would have started with the term transgendered at the outset, instead of it evolving slowly and fitfully into more common usage, there might be a lot less confusion and angst among the transgendered community.
Trans=cross though, so its not really accurate to label someone who is attracted to the transgendered a transsexual, because there is no cross sexual component. if you wanted to be painfully accurate, a trans-sexual would be someone who was attracted to someone of the opposite gender but who came accross as being of the same gender. A man and an FTM or a lesbian and MTF would be a trans-sexual relationships. But those are pretty few and far between, and we can never unring the bell as far as the terminology of transsexualism goes, so the term will continue to define gender and to confound how we deal with it.
I'm not sure what latin or scientific term would best define someone who is attracted to the transgendered. Nor am I sure there should be one. A case could be made for the term transphillic, but that may be too much like paraphillic, which is the clinical term for fetish and what is derogatorially referred to as perversions.
I think rather than trying to find a new label, or force a fit with the old ones, that you should love who you love, or lust for those who you lust for, and do so proudly, and openly and shrug off those who would try to define or confine you. Sexuality is nothing if not fluid, and too many people are swimming against its current instead of going with the flow.
FK
That was beautiful.
Now if only everyone thought of things as you do.
I liked transamorous!Quote:
Originally Posted by whatsupwithat
SS, I've just woken up, and I have done a cursory perusal of your post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shining Star
Would you be so kind as to provide cites for the studies that you have
alluded to, as I feel there are some erroneous conclusions and
statements.
I'm running late for work, but you may either PM me, or post them on the
forum.
Thanks......
Last time I read those books was at college,but will see what I can dig up either on the Internet, or when down by my alma mater see if can find the same books.
Cogent and insightful as ever, Felicia. The crux of the matter is the difference between sex and gender, between physiological differentiation and social/psychological construct. If one bases one's definition of sexuality on a person's primary sexual manifestation (genitalia), then, with the exception of intersexuals, we do fall into the male/female modality. But gender is far more fluid and differently defined for each.
Yes, this gets back very succinctly to the points I made above regarding the terminology. I quite agree, it would have been better had we begun with transgender rather than transsexual, but it is what it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Felicia Katt
I've tried transphillic on for size before, but never really liked the term, partly for the reason you give, and partly because it's too limiting, both as a descriptor of my inclinations and as regards the objects of my inclinations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Felicia Katt
:claps :claps :clapsQuote:
Originally Posted by Felicia Katt
I'm jumping into this convo in the middle (Something I'll stop doing as soon as the laptop is finished with its labotomy), so please bear with me.
I honestly don't understand an attraction strictly limited to GG girls. Or strictly limited to guys. I don't understand limiting ones sexual/sensual preference to any single gender/religion/politics/ethnicity/culture/species. Well...Maybe I'll let 'species' slide.Quote:
I honestly don't understand an attraction strictly limited to TS girls.
I define myself as bisexual, but with gender having been proven as more of a sliding scale than a binary fact, that definition is limiting.
No, I'm sure there are others, including myself. Yet, as far as I've read so far (Page 4) they may not have a voice for their feelings. I know that I have had moments when I have done edits and rewrites in my head a dozen times and another dozen at the keys and still not post.Quote:
So, it's just Jericho and I that feel the way we do?
I'm wondering if it is checmical or genetic in source, nature/nurture, or how many S & H Green Stamps you traded in at the Sexuality and Gender Definition store. Why are straights (In the greater percentage of the sampling) solely attracted to the opposite gender? Gays/lesbians to the same gender? What clicks for bisexuals? How izzit that Motherfucking Nature gave my intersexed lover tits and a vagina, but no uterus, a clit the size of a burly man's thumb, and the instinct to be a gay boi?
Eventually, the APA will tag it somehow, as they ultimately did with people like myself who tend to frequently be involved in relationships with homosexual people of the =opposite= gender: Transhomosexuals. In layman's terms, for me, that would be a "male lesbian" (Which more than a couple of my 3G lovers said to other people to explain why we were together). Yah, yah, I've heard the one about "You are what you eat". :roll:Quote:
Eric, Ecstatic, and now Jericho have really driven home to me the lack of a positive term to describe men who like transwomen.
Quote:
But post operatively I have met a fair number of men that will only date transwomen, be they pre or post operative. For me this strikes me as very odd, and harkens back to what Seanchai said upthread about men who only date women who have a penis or once had a penis.
Not knowing the individuals or their backstories, I can only hazard a guess here, and it is based on my own experience with a long train of GG relationships that invariably jumped the tracks and landed in the ditch. Women, as a species, are schizophrenic, game-playing psychos who lie about love and friendship as easily as I might say "I'm from the government and I promise not to put the check in your mouth!". That in mind, it is not unreasonable to assume that a woman who possesses (Or had a recent history of possessing) a dick =might= be sane or at least understanding of how a man operates.Quote:
I must admit that men who only are interested in women who have a penis history give me pause for cause. I must admit that I question
whether their affinity is to the woman or to her previous or current
genitilia, ie. the penis.
Look up the Man Rules (If they haven't already been posted here on HA, they can't be far afield). We're not mind-readers. When we say "I love you", it is not neccesary to grill us about it. If you ask dumbshit questions like "Does this dress make me look fat?", be prepared for the answer! :x
Maybe, just maybe, T-gurls have a handle on this shit and so are the preferred interest when it comes to dating and relationships for some of us lowly men.
As for me, I =like= the penis. I have one of my very own, and we're quite close. I especially enjoy sharing them. :)
I had a gay "phase" (Yes, Virginia, they really do occur) when I was in my late teens/early twenties. The pic I posted to the Show Your Ass competition was taken in that time frame (And yes, that really, really, really is my sweet ass...Or at least the sweet ass I possessed back then). Yet, it never satisfied, especially as the gay culture at the time had not even imagined the concept of 'relationship'. :roll: On the flip side of the sexuality coin, my relationships with women were always lacking that little 'extra' that we now refer to as 'T-clit'. :?Quote:
i have tried to 'deprogram' myself. i went the gay route, the straight route...it never, as jericho said, *felt* right.
I often refer to my 'ex', but I have never been married. "Ex" is a multi-tiered term that saves a lot of explaining in conversation.Quote:
Labels might be wrong but a term is necessery to avoid any confusion.
Likewise, but there are still random qualifiers that tweak some people's interests and desires. A straight guy might meet a witty, etchical, intelligent queer with a great sense of humor, but he ain't gonna blow him.Quote:
For me what attracts me to a person is their personality,
intelligence, integrity, sense of humor, etc.
Until a better tag arrives on the scene, pan/omni seems to work for me. I've been there/done that with all varieties and have yet to drown in guilt over any of my encounters/relationships.Quote:
Pansexual (pan = all) doesn't fit any better than bisexual unless one is attracted to all variants. Likewise omnisexual.
I've never been shady about the fact that I like dick. A gurl with a dick is a major bonus for me. Dick is good. All hail the dick! Yet I don't let that desire or preference rule who/which gender I seek out. There are at least a couple of gurls here on HA that have met me in person and, I think, would tell you that I wasn't =ALL= about the dick.Quote:
But I don't quite agree with your followup statement (for myself, obviously), as what is between their legs is indeed relevant. It's merely one of several relevant factors, but it's far from irrelevant.
Ass is good, too. :wink:
Truth be told, I think I am here for the fetish aspect as a primary draw. That does not neccesarily doom me to being a "chaser", per se. I like to think that I am a bit more open and deeper than that (But only the gurls can make judgement on that).Quote:
I do believe, as many have stated, that most of the men are in it for the fetish.
The whole nature of the T culture challenges and persecutes us. We are gay because we like dick. We are perverts because we like women with dicks. We are social pariahs because our dream dates charge for us to touch them.
Life, and especially people, sucks. Work around it as best you can.
Because we are FAB (Fucked At Birth). Here's a drink chit, go get a beer.Quote:
Why is there a negative connotation (tranny chaser) attached to only one of those terms? All the rest are free to be themselves without judgement?
I think I'll have that put on a button. :DQuote:
MMFsexual?
See my comments above re: ChemicalQuote:
I am almost of the mind that it's hormonal in some way. My physical makeup is at play here. What I keep trying to impress and keeps being missed is that this is deeply internal.
There are other forums that are not so porn-centric as this one and there are also programs that will allow you to set up your own niche. If you choose the latter, invite me! :DQuote:
Thanks, otto. Much appreciated. i think we should start a website of some kind where guys like us can establish ourselves and build a community, get a voice. Maybe then we'll be taken seriously.
Or maybe we already have one here...
Izzat you, Luna? =The= Luna? So good to see you here. :DQuote:
Many, many wise, but misspelled words by Luna
Re; Your comment of penis/vagina rather than male/female in medical terms. My intersexed friend frequently said "The doctors always get it wrong" as far as gender decisions at birth.
E...Did you say that for real? :lol:Quote:
We are too hung up on genitalia, imho.
Never mind, question answered. :lol:Quote:
Well, of course, there are times when I rather enjoy being hung up on genitalia....
Christ! I'm only up to Page 8 so far. :shock:
...
fantastic post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Felicia Katt
my last post in this thread:
A) I can only speak for myself, but I cant see myself beeing attracted to TS only. that whole concept seems rather odd to me, but whatever floats your boat....
B) also in this thread an old HA-favourite turns up: "why am I atrracted to TS?"
for me personally, its more of a "cultural" (or "sociological") thing. I was and I am still fascinated by the massiv change that is to be seen with many TS. the massiv change in physical appearance that is.
another factor always was that TS are often outcasts, and I am usually "in with the out-crowd" - I just mistrust "mainstream"-culture on many levels.
the sexual aspect plays a role too, I am not ashamed to admit I like anal-sex - on the active part. I ve been intimate with two TS-chicks so far, and in both cases the girls penis was a non-issue. oral was me rimming.
so, that obsession with cocks which is on display on his site is a bit odd to me, I cant really relate to it. (and that cock-obsession goes both ways, as in the "cock-bandits" and in the girls who tend to say "men only want me due to the fact I have a cock" - dont get me wrong, do whatever you like, I am not throwing stones at anybody of you, its just not understandable for me)
I am sure there are more guys than me on this board or have a (rather) positive attitude towards TS similar to mine.
psychiatry is not a science because there is no control group. the person still has a y chromosome no matter how much surgery they get. and just from a common sense standpoint if you have a dick in your mouth or butt you have clearly crossed the line between man and gay-man. sorry.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coroner
Hi e,
there actually is a medical/psychiatric name for the propensity to be attracted to transwomen, it is gynandromorphophilia, so you would be a "gynandromorphophile", granted it's a bit of a mouthful and not quite as catchy as "tranny chaser". I think Ray Blanchard came up with it and it is used in some circles. Personally I think you could do with something a little bit pithier and agree that most current names have a pejorative bent to them. I assume this is mainly due to most people (straight, gay and even some ts's) believing that there is something inherently wrong with you finding ts's(mainly/exclusively) sexually attractive. I doubt many people seek professional help to deal with their sexual preference for transsexuals, hence it not being a terribly common term or there being another widely used psych name for it. I know some people will find the "phile/philia" bit not to their liking, but it really just mean liking or attraction
I generally agree with your quest to find a suitable name for your attraction and hope that in some way it may decrease the stigma and misunderstanding surrounding your sexuality and even transwomens sexuality.
ps to others: just a quick note on fetish, usually it means your sexual arousal is dependent on an inanimate non-living object ie women’s panties. That isn't the case with transwomen, unless you view them as objects(i'm sure some people do, but most don’t), it’s more of an "alternative sexuality". But since I think a heck of a lot of "straight" men have fantasies about ts's don’t think it is that unusual or alternative, just very shameful and embarrassing to most men.
There’s some interesting references here: http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=329452 about three answers down, make that 4!
"gynandromorphophile" - interesting! /gyn/ (or /gyno/) [Greek gunē, woman] + /andro/ (or /andr/) [Greek, from anēr, andr-, man] + /morpho/ (or /morph/) [Greek, from morphē, shape, used in context of to transform shape] + /phile/ [New Latin -philus, from Greek -philos, beloved, dear, from philos, beloved, loving] = Loving or having a strong affinity or preference for a man transform[ed/ing] into a woman. A mouthful, but it does meet the lexical requirements of the desired term. Nice first post, Hol.
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Originally Posted by Ecstatic
Thanks Ecstatic,
I've been lurking for a while and think e's search for an identity/label is a good thing and hope he is successful. I think the lack of an identity/label encourages a lot of men to be quite "shady"(i think that's the term?) about their sexual attraction to ts's and that validates their tendency to treat us as dirty secrets and embarrassments. I think if there was a more positive identity for guys who like ts's, ts's wouldn't get treated so poorly by some men. But maybe I'm being naively optimistic? lol!
Assuming there needs to be a term ending in -sexual (see my previous post suggesting "Type MMF") you could drop the -phile and add -sexual...
Gynandromorphosexual?
Did no one take my plea to not dwell on the labels seriously? LOL
how about transgensexual. Its less of a mouthful. (whiich in normal usage is a good thing, though I am not so sure here LOL)
meow
FK
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felicia Katt
More than a mouthful is a waste, anyway. :wink:
.
Gynandromorphophile/Gynandromorphosexual/Transgensexual...
Interesting. I will embrace the technical term, Gynandromorphophile, and add it to my earlier label, transhomosexual, and file it with other useful woids that I've tripped over during my lifetime: Bogonophobic = Fear of beards, Parthenophobic = Fear of virgins, and Bovavocaphilia = The inexplicable urge to say "Moo!" when one sees a cow.
How about transgenphile?