I'm glad I don't live in the weird world you seem to have invented. I really can't be arsed to even start to correct your misunderstanding of Government debt and bonds, what they actually mean and how they work in the real world.
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I'm glad I don't live in the weird world you seem to have invented. I really can't be arsed to even start to correct your misunderstanding of Government debt and bonds, what they actually mean and how they work in the real world.
It also helps you to avoid debating -indeed as someone who voted for it, taking responsibility for Brexit's broken dreams.
So you have nothing to say about the Northern Ireland Protocol or anything else in the agreement Boris Johnson's Government signed with the EU that is proving in so many instances to contradict the Law -not least, in this case, the Anglo-Irish Agreement that ended the Troubles.
Nothing to say abuout the tsunamic of paperwork and the costs that have inundated small and medium sized businesses with no regard for Boris Johnson's claim that once out of the EU British business would not be burdened by regulations.
You can avoid dealing with the contradiction between free enterprise and the State that makes Brexit a Utopian fantasy, just as you can't be arsed to tell is why the British State exists, let alone why it is in debt, as Libertarians like Ms Truss and Mr Raab can pen any amount of pseudo-political drivel for Britannia Unchained they care to, then sit in Boris Johnson's Cabinet plucking 'Bonds' from the Magic Money Tree, spending other people's money to compensate for markets that have failed or watch the UK become a basket case economy like Zimbabwe under Robert Mugababy.
I have not invented the crisis in Norther Ireland, nor have I invented the statistics on the loss of trade that I cited in my previous post. I have not invented the lies that Johnson and Gove and the rest of them told, about the money the UK would save when it left the EU, about the return of a Sovereignty whose extent only exists in the airy heads of Brexit supporters, just as I did not invent the Racism which is integrated into the Brexit anti-foreigner narrative, even as today the same people beg for those foreigners to come and save their bacon and egg breakfasts, or Wetherspoon pubs.
What a strange world you have invented, where Brexit is done, and all is right with the world, or the UK, or the City of London, or maybe just your bedroom. Based on what little you have said on the subject, can anyone benefit from your insight into Brexit? I am sure many readers of these posts who don't comment on them, woud like to know.
You show the level of accuracy of your posts by assuming I voted for it.
I really have no idea why you want to post your drivel here. It adds nothing to anything.
I'm sure there's some other forum for people who want to do nothing but complain about how wrong everything is.
Parliament :banana:Quote:
Originally Posted by obslam
The effects of Brexit will last for sometime. to suggest otherwise is naive.Quote:
Originally Posted by obslam
Quote:
Originally Posted by obslam
Let me refresh your memory.Quote:
Originally Posted by obslam
Like this, you mean? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liar%27s_PokerQuote:
Originally Posted by obslam
You don't seem to be a very good liar, so I guess you haven't made it to "big swinging dick" yet.
The point was I didn't vote for "broken dreams." Apologies if that wasn't clear of me.Quote:
Originally Posted by filghy2
I just feel so sorry for the people who just can't get over the fact that the electorate voted a different way to the way they would have preferred. They want to prove everything is so awful due to that. Except it isn't. We are lucky to live in one of the wealthiest and most prosperous nations on earth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by obslam
It is not about being unable to accept the vote to Leave, but the simple fact that the advocates of Leave had no real plan to implement the decision because they did not expect Leave to win the Referendum.
From that moment on, the UK Government was incapable of matching the experienced negtiators of the EU for whom the integrity of the Single Market and the Customs Union was, and remains too important to to be amended just to suit the UK, and because the UK either had no idea what it wanted, or wanted the impossible from the EU.
As a result the various trade agreements that were put to Parliament, by Theresa May and then Boris Johson, put the UK in a weak position, as evidenced by the Northern Ireland Protocol, on which you have nothing to say. But again, it also exposes to view the fact that there was always going to be a conflict between the UK leaving the Customs Union of the UK, and the Anglo-Irish Agreement which guarantees there will be no 'hard border' between the Republic and the UK. And here we are, five years later, and the problem has not been resolved, while the DUP which had such influence on the Govt of Theresa May, is now a party of marginal importance yet capable of ending the Power Sharing agreement crucial to the peace and prosperity of the provnce, yet aware of its vulnerability inside Northern Ireland, but where enough people who claim to be 'Unionists' may not yet be ready to accept what for many outside is the inevitable re-unification of Ireland.
So the basis of my complaint is not just the negative effects of Brexit provided by British businesses, many of whom supported the Leave campaign, but that the management of Brexit has been so poor. The internal divisions in the Conservative Party led to the most extraordinary scenes of failure by the Govt to pass its own laws, scuppered by its own MPs, who then chose a new leader whose first act was to purge that same party of any MP who did not share his vision, the only difference between Johnson and Stalin being the lack of a Gulag Archipelago in the UK.
On the other side of the House, the Labour Party then and now, has absolutely no idea what to do with Brexit, as it has ruled out the most logical solution which is to seek the UKs re-entry into the Single Market and the Customs Union.
The anger that I personally feel relates to the removal of my freedom, and the freedom of every other UK citizen that was part of the Single Market. We rarely, if ever have a debate on how our freedom has been eroded by Boris Johnson's vision, but then we have avoided the elephant in the room, which is the loathing of foreigners that was fundamental for those who voted Leave, who complained there were too many migrants/immigrants in the country, regardless of the jobs they were doing.
At a day-to-day level it has been responsible for the labour shortages in Care Homes, the long-short haul road haulage business, and the food processing/picking businesses, but at a longer-term or broader level, it has been an extension of a long-established campaign by the Neo-Nazi and New Wave Fascists who subscribe to forms of 'race replacement' ideas that claim immigration has, is, and will destroy the British in Britain, as currently exhibited by the TV programmes which 'must' contain references to being queer, slavery, exploitation, and so on, and thus feature actors, comedians and presenters who are non-White, Gay, probably Muslim and 'hate' the Tories.
Brexit is about so much more than Govt bonds, global markets, freedom from EU institutions and regulations, and is also about how 'we' view the UK now and in the years to come. And so far the tilt towards the New Wave Fascism that has infected the US, Hungary, Poland and Russia, that has been the main event in Turkey since 1923, and Israel since 1977, is trying to establish itself in the UK, with Nigel Farage its most obvious representative.
But consider too, how it is that when Edward Heath was Conservative PM in 1970-73, he expelled Enoch Powell from his party, yet under Boris Johnson, we have a Home Office whose 'send the Blacks Back' policy is almost a carbon copy of the policy of the neo-Nazi National Front that Heath was genuinely opposed to. And it is inconceivable that Heath would ever have referred to Black people as 'Picaninnies' with 'Watermeon smiles' as Boris Johnson has.
Brexit is not over, it has barely got started, and I am genuinely worried at the trends in politics that I never thought I would have to confront again. I suggest what strikes me as your complacency, or indifference is part of the permissive environment which allows the extremists to enter the building, and then tear it down because nobody is there to stop them.
If you really wanted to ignore someone, wouldn't it be best to not continually respond to their posts?
I would agree that the UK is 'one of the wealthiest and most prosperous nations on earth' but the UK is not a nation, and the prosperity here is unevenly distributed. Indeed, one of the key challenges we have which existed before Brexit, was to tackle the increasing gap between rich and poor.Quote:
Originally Posted by obslam
One of the tricks played by the Leave campaign was to imply or even state that the UK woud be financially better off outside the EU, because the costs would be saved, and the money 'repatriated' to the UK, spent on 'us' or the NHS if that slogan on the side of Boris Johnson's bus was to be believed.
That Labour has failed to articulate an agenda for a more equitable distribution of the wealth created in the UK is part of its broader failure to create any agenda with enough appeal to challenge the dominance of the Conservatives in England and the SNP in Scotland. In this sense, if Brexit is creating a new era in the UK, it appears to be one characterised by the retreat of UK-wide political affiliations into their national bunkers, with differences that could become irreconcilable. Thus Scotland may not succeed in becoming independent, yet the proportion of supporters of independence there create an enduring resentment of 'The English' that firms up the SNP grip on power thus denying Labour any hope of winning an election bar a collapse of Tory support in England.
In this sense, Brexit has aggravated existing political divisions in the UK, while the incompetent management of Brexit -by the people most passionate about it- fails to address real poverty and hardship in 'the Shires'. We may live in a prosperous country, but it has over 2,000 food banks, and 'in work benefits' exist because a substantial number of people are working on such low wages they cannot use them to pay the rent or buy groceries.
My proposal to begin narrowing the gap between rich and poor, would be a levy on the transactions agreed in the City of London, say 0.7% per day. Taxing the rich should always be fair, but income is only one part of wealth, assets and transactons are another. But it does also depend for its postive effects on the competence of the Govt to collect the levy and spend it wisely, in an age when wisdom in politics seems in short supply.
Rawls has had his critics, and often rightly too, but his basic ideas of justice and fairness seem to me to be congenial in a liberal market economy, but Democrats in the US, and Labour in the UK seem too scared of the men with money to be bold enough to initiate the changes our societies need.
I did not read obslam's deleted post so I don't know what was written there. Politics is about debate, or it is about nothing. I think I can take robust criticism, so I hope the debate continues.
LOL, I respond to someone writing drivel about how British people have had their "freedom" removed and my post is censored.
Anyway, I've worked out how to block him now, so he can stay in his unhappy world without inflicting it on me in the real world.
I know you're right filghy2, but it annoys me that people can write such ridiculous exaggerations and untruths and feel unable to be challenged on it. They add nothing to our society.Quote:
Originally Posted by filghy2
Free movement of people -gone.Quote:
Originally Posted by obslam
Free movement of capital - gone.
Free movement of goods -gone.
Free movement of services - gone.
The Northern Ireland Protocol and its negative impact on politics and the economy of the Province -drivel?
The xenophobic posters and statements of Farage from 2016 to the present -drivel?
The vocal criticism by British business of the management by the Government of Brexit -drivel?
Tim Martin of the Wetherspoon chain begging for migrant labour from the EU to be admitted to the UK -drivel?
Five years after the EU Referendum, the UK and the EU have not reached an agreement on Services -drivel?
By January 2021 the Pound Sterling was 15% weaker against the Euro than it was on Referendum day -drivel?
The Referendum result led to the largest fall in value of the Pound Sterling in 30 years -drivel?
Prosperity in the UK has not led to the closure of 2,000 Food Banks -drivel?
The independence movement in Scotland -which voted to remain in the EU- has been revived by Brexit -drivel?
I could go on, but that's my take on the most stupid decision made in this country in my lifetime, even more stupid than Eden's Suez adventure.
There is a genune debate to be had which concerns Brexit and its impact on the UK, indeed on the EU, but I cannot force anyone t engage in it, on their terms, mine, or anyone else's terms. AJ Polan wrote a book called Lenin and the End of Politics. You can see what happens when debate is shut down, be it in Syria, Afghanistan, Belarus, Russia or even inside what used to be called the 'Republican Party' in the US.
A permissive environment in which politics is shut down to maintain power for autocrats, or to empower those who seek to rule without the inconvenience of public opinon, indeed, the Rights of the Citizen, is an environment that destroys the ability of democratic government to function. If those New Wave Fascists fed up with the EU, the Constitution, Parliament or whatever is in their way, at least tell us why, and how they intend to govern, then we can at least take a last stand. Because it might be our last chance to rescue history from its liars, its thieves, and its murderers.
We have had our freedom removed.Quote:
Originally Posted by obslam
LOL, go on then, what can't you do now that you could before the electorate voted by majority to leave the EU?
Before the electorate voted by majority to leave the EU I had an automatic right to live and work in the EU.Quote:
Originally Posted by obslam
Thanks. Which EU countries couldn't you live and/or work in now if you wanted to?
It was shit today.
It was shit yesterday.
And you can bet your arse it's going to be shit tomorrow!
Told you...Quote:
Originally Posted by Jericho
Quote:
Boris Johnson on the BBC "I've given you the most important metric which is, never mind life expectancy, never mind cancer outcomes, look at wage growth."
Context is what matters here -when I worked in France in the 1970s I did not need a work permit because the work was temporary and exempt from the regulation. The Single Market opened up opportunities in all sectors without the need for regulation for citizens of member countries.Quote:
Originally Posted by obslam
The supporters of Brexit who have trumpeted a country free of EU regulation now find that to work in the EU UK citizens need to conform to regulations because the UK is no longer a member of the Single Market -just as EU citizens need to meet certain requitements to work in the UK, unless there is a crisis like there is now which allows the very same Brexit Fanatics to relax the rules to cover their own arses.
UK citizens no longer have the freedom to even visit the EU for as long as they like, being obliged to leave after 90 days.
https://www.frenchentree.com/brexit/...-how-it-works/
Meawhile, there is a shortage of labour because EU citizens don't want to work in the EU, or cannot be allowed in because the jobs they do does't pay up to or beyond a limit set by the UK Govt, so freedom is lost both ways.
“We had a lot of European chefs,” said Creely, who also runs the flagship Ezra & Gil on nearby Hilton Street, “but a lot of people left after Brexit. Brexit is massively responsible for the problem, particularly when it comes to chef shortages.”
At Dimitri’s, which has a red “Vote Love” sign in the window – a play on the “Vote Leave” posters that appeared everywhere during the 2016 referendum – Benson agreed. “We need to let the Europeans back in to work. It never should have stopped.”
https://www.theguardian.com/business...-in-manchester
The devil was always in the detail, and the devil is shrieking with laughter.
Conference season means only one thing -waffling bollocks from politicians playing to their base. The days of real drama, when Kinnock rescued Labour from Militant are long gone, but in Manchester, the Conservatives are revealing that they don't want to talk about their Brexit even as they can't avoid it. With supply chains issues the 'critical' issue of the day, threatening Christmas dinner without Turkey (which I haven't eaten at Christmas since, I think, 1983), Boris Johnson and his Bo Selectas are blaming employers for preferring cheap labour to the business acument that innovates to survive, thus:
"What I think needs to happen there is a question about the types of jobs that are being done, the pay that is being offered, the levels of automation, the levels of investment in those jobs ... What we can’t do is in all these sectors simply go back to the tired, failed, old model, reach for the lever called uncontrolled immigration, get people in [on] low wages." (But Johnson then says he is in favour of 'controlled immigration')...
Other Tories, in private/off-the-record statements are frank:
“Business was served notice in the referendum that all this [cheap labour] is ending,” says one minister. “They didn’t invest, so now they’re paying the price.”
And this is what’s so interesting: the number of Tories talking about business getting its just deserts, seeing the current chaos as a painful but necessary war of nerves. “Boris was quite right: f--- business,” one senior Tory says, referring to a now-notorious remark the prime minister made about corporate lobbyists. “They haven’t innovated, haven’t automated. Now they’ll have to – and pay up.” Striking language for the party that was, once, the party of business."
But what does business say?
Nick Allen, chief executive of the British Meat Processors Association, said it was “nonsense” to claim the problems in the sector were all down to low wages. He said:
"The idea that we have just been dependent on cheap labour, we haven’t been investing in infrastructure, is utter nonsense.https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-politics-live
It is lot more complicated than that. Even though we have increased wages quite dramatically, we are still not getting people wanting to do that job.
He said pig farmers were facing a “nightmare scenario”, and he said the government should relax visa rules to all skilled workers from abroad to enter the country to fill vacancies."
The political right is totally incoherent on the role of the market nowadays. The Thatcher-Reagan free market paradigm was over-simplistic in ignoring many important realities, but it has been replaced with a dog's breakfast. As I've said before, the right is not really about free markets or small government any more. It's mostly about cultural tribalism, and their attitude toward business depends on whether they serve that goal or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stavros
Maybe business should have invested more in workforce skills, technological innovation, etc, but isn't it the role of government to implement policies to ensure that happens? These quotes are an abrogation of responsibility.
You make an important point, because it seems to me that the allure of political power is too great for even the most hardened Libertarian to let it go -Johnson, Gove, Rees-Mogg can make as many statements as they like about markets, but they are not going to trade in their chauffeured limousines, their tax-payer funded country estates and the High Table mentality that goes with it, to hand over power to small and medium sized businesses, or even the Billionaire Hedge Funds and Sovereign Funds of oil-rich Sultans and Kings.Quote:
Originally Posted by filghy2
More pertinent is the view of Larry Elliot in the link below which discusses just-in-time wrorking methods and the global supply chains which work well until there is a crisis, when it ceases to work at all. The irony of those who pitch Globalists against Patriots, is that the reliance/dependency on JiTand Supply Chain productiona and distribution is what made them and their backers very rich indeed. Whether or not the UK can repatriate production from China/Asia to deal with Supply Chain issues is possibe, but as a country with low productivity ,poor training and stagnant wages (though HGV drivers might become the richest workers in the UK, if anyone can find them), the UK with its colossal debt does not look like it is going to get out of the moribund state is is now in.
And we have yet to even see a serious start to the negtiations on Services with the EU. Given that David Frost negotiated the Northern Ireland Protocol which he (and the DUP) now says is unacceptable (Arlene Foster says it should be scrapped immedately), what hope is there that this Government will negotiate a good deal with the EU on what constitutes the greater part of the UK economy?
Brexit over? It has barely got started.
https://www.theguardian.com/business...economic-model
I don't have an automatic right to live and/or work in any EU country now.Quote:
Originally Posted by obslam
Yes, you do if you are a UK citizen.Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtrebus
For example, you have a right to live and/or work in the Republic of Ireland.
While your right to live/work in other EU countries might not be quite automatic, there are likely none that would actually decline people from the UK.
A misleading post, thus-Quote:
Originally Posted by obslam
“UK citizens do not need a visa or residency permit to live, work or study in Ireland. Under the Common Travel Area (CTA), UK and Irish citizens can live and work freely in each other’s countries and travel freely between them. Both the UK and Irish governments are committed to protecting the CTA. Read our guidance on the CTA.”
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/living-in-ireland
The CTA has been in force with amendments since the 1920s and is thus an agreement independent of the EU.
I could have pointed out that for the people who want to complain about the loss of "automatic" right to work outside of The British Isles, only about 0.1% of them would actually have the balls to do so.Quote:
Originally Posted by obslam
In a liberal democracy, we extend rights and respect to minorities, and do not intend to limit the freedom of the individual, the freedom of expression, freedom of movement.Quote:
Originally Posted by obslam
My freedom of movement into and out of the EU (but not the Republic of Ireland) has been taken away by Brexit, just as a new Bill before Parliament threatens to remove my right to engage in free expression on the Internet.
https://www.newstatesman.com/politic...edom-of-speech
You could have....But that would have been more obfuscation, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by obslam
You can polish that turd until the world runs out of J-Cloth, but Brexit Britain is
Shit Today,
Shit yesterday.
And by golly, it's going to be shit tomorrow!
Feel sorry for you then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jericho
Britain, pre- or post-Brexit, is a country where anyone can achieve anything if they put the effort in. A lot of countries aren't like that.
It's certainly not shit. Of course, if you aren't willing to put the effort in maybe your life is shit. But that isn't the country's fault.
Fixed that for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by obslam
Quote:
Originally Posted by obslam
Restriction of Movement in our own country
Loss of freedom of Movement in Europe
Increases in foodbank usage
Increase in homelessness
Fuel shortages (In certain areas).
Lack of variety and rising prices in stores
Energy prices about to go up (Just in time for Winter (You can heat or eat)).
The army being drafted in to drive ambulances
Do stop me if you're being overwhelmed by the greatness of it all!
Unless of course, you're sitting on a cushion.
Then it's "I'm alright, Jack", and a holiday in Marbella in a mates villa!
Dr Pangloss, I presume. These whingers just don't appreciate that they never had it so good.Quote:
Originally Posted by obslam
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DT1mGoLDRbc?t=4
Why the fuck would I borrow a mates villa? What's wrong with mine?
Apart from the incorrect, top two in the list, claims, I'm not sure there is any link between any of the others and Brexit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jericho
We've already established you're wrong about FoM.Quote:
Originally Posted by obslam
You're wrong about the rest, too.
YOU might not be sure, the rest of the world *is*!
LOL, we've established I'm right on FoM. It really isn't restricted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jericho
I'm not wrong about the rest either.
Russian gas shortages due to the UK leaving the EU?
Fuel supply issues due to the UK leaving the EU (even though number of ADR holders unaffected)?
Etc. Etc. Etc. Etc. You seem delusional.
Goodbye.
Quote:
Originally Posted by obslam
:banghead
Basking in the sunlit uplands of denial.
Lord Frost, opposed to Brexit before the Referendum is now one of its most aggressive warriors, going into battle against- well, himself, and the Northern Ireland Protocol he negotiated on behalf of Boris Johnson to prove just how useless Theresa May was.
But we can’t escape something that has been poking politicians in the eye for 800 years- Ireland, and just as in the 19th century it split apart the Liberal and Conservative parties, and in the 20th was the scene of devastating violence, so here we are, in the second decade of the 21sr century, and Ireland- or rather the British position in Ireland remains an unrelenting mistress of despair. That there is no end in sight Rafael Behr attributes to Theresa May and Boris Johnson, but I fear it has deeper roots, it is a tree that can’t be felled, not yet anyway. Thus-
“The demand to end European court jurisdiction signals that Johnson is not serious about the protocol. He knows that the single market and the court are one package. Frost is asking to erase a fundamental basis of all Brexit negotiation, resetting the clock to June 2017, expiating May’s original sin in accepting the primacy of the Irish border issue; retracting Britain’s concession that it is any kind of issue at all.”
I have spoken to ministers, diplomats and officials who have worked with Johnson and they say, with one voice, that he has no interest in the detail of his deals and does not consider his signature on them to be binding. As one former cabinet colleague puts it: “Boris doesn’t give a stuff about Northern Ireland.”
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...eland-protocol
note also a comment from a reader made up of quotes from various sources-
“Marina Hyde in the Guardian:
"Lord Frost now spends most of his time castigating the EU for sticking to the terms of the deal struck by Lord Frost, and for doing so in a way that was predicted by seemingly everyone other than Lord Frost."
Nytimes Published Sept. 28, 2021
"Gas stations in Northern Ireland, which has an open border with the Irish Republic (a European Union member), are not reporting panic buying. Similarly, Northern Ireland was unaffected by the recent shortage in supplies of carbon dioxide because its soda bottling plants had access to shipments from continental Europe."
https://nyti.ms/3F18lfx
... the UK intends to opt back into EU programmes on research (Horizon), earth observation satellites (Copernicus), energy (Euratom research & training and Fusion for Energy). The UK will make a “proportionate contribution” to these programmes ...
A large non-EU state is threatening a small EU state, with whom it has a land boundary, with unspecified actions, because of the out working of an international Treaty, to which the larger state freely agreed, less than two years ago.
John Bruton
Irish Times July 7th”.