Re: Arizona Bill Would Restrict Bathrooms by Birth Gender
Seanchai, if your mother were being followed by a man in a dress, it's rather understandable that you'd be distraught about it, but why the public restroom specifically? Should we create a law that bars crossdressers from dark parking lots, bars, alleys, elevators, or anywhere else your mother can be dragged off and mugged or fondled in private?
That's not the point. A woman sitting down to piss probably would take offense if they realized a crossdresser was in the stall next to them irregardless of their intent. Most people expect that only stark-cold same-gender people occupy the same public restroom. That's why I propose we offer a men's, women's, and unisex bathroom... as well as a hermaphrodite hose around the back so that women who don't mind shitting next to men don't have to be put off by the genetic freak using the funnel -- and just so everybody stays happy, there's also a sound-proof stall for the drunken homeless, low-class hookers, and noisy shitters.
What's the point in damage control when there isn't much damage done. How often do you hear about crossdressers assaulting others in public restrooms? Like, never. Why isn't it preferable just to teach the public to fucking stuff it and let the person in the stall next to you pinch a loaf in peace? I don't understand why a few misplaced emergency calls need to turn into millions of dollars of public facility renovations.
Re: Arizona Bill Would Restrict Bathrooms by Birth Gender
As it stands, if a man walks into a women's restroom and does anything more than use the facility and leave, the guy can be arrested, detained, and trespassed if need be. That's pretty much universal in all 50 states. I'm not saying that's overkill, I'm saying that the system seems to work fine. The stick-in-the-spoke is usually the whistle-blower that can't let well-enough be or the polar opposite; harassment from people in the "correct" bathroom.
Re: Arizona Bill Would Restrict Bathrooms by Birth Gender
I volunteer to stand outside the womens rest room and grope every potential user. GG's will be allowed to pass, Transwomen will have to join me in a seperate room for further investigation,
Re: Arizona Bill Would Restrict Bathrooms by Birth Gender
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tits McButts
Seanchai, if your mother were being followed by a man in a dress, it's rather understandable that you'd be distraught about it, but why the public restroom specifically? Should we create a law that bars crossdressers from dark parking lots, bars, alleys, elevators, or anywhere else your mother can be dragged off and mugged or fondled in private?
That's not the point. A woman sitting down to piss probably would take offense if they realized a crossdresser was in the stall next to them irregardless of their intent. Most people expect that only stark-cold same-gender people occupy the same public restroom. That's why I propose we offer a men's, women's, and unisex bathroom... as well as a hermaphrodite hose around the back so that women who don't mind shitting next to men don't have to be put off by the genetic freak using the funnel -- and just so everybody stays happy, there's also a sound-proof stall for the drunken homeless, low-class hookers, and noisy shitters.
What's the point in damage control when there isn't much damage done. How often do you hear about crossdressers assaulting others in public restrooms?
Like, never. Why isn't it preferable just to teach the public to fucking stuff it and let the person in the stall next to you pinch a loaf in peace? I don't understand why a few misplaced emergency calls need to turn into millions of dollars of public facility renovations.
Ho-fucking-hum. I didn't bring the "public restroom specifically" law into it, the State of Arizona did but now you mention it, because it's an enclosed area where people are potentially vulnerable, trying to equate a bathroom with a car park if a pretty poor comparison.
My issue with this is to do with the "right". "We have the right to go into an opposite sex's bathroom because I say that I want to". It's rubbish, there are rules and limitations that as a society people need to adhere to.
Re: Arizona Bill Would Restrict Bathrooms by Birth Gender
It is kinda weird for someone who truly doesn't identify as female to be in the womans room
Re: Arizona Bill Would Restrict Bathrooms by Birth Gender
Seanchai given how strong you've been in positively advocating for us, I am baffled at your position on this.
I'll accept your point that those not truly identifying female should not have a right to the use of the female restrooms. that said, if those parties gain access, existing law has penalties for the sorts of improper behavior - there's no need for a new law singling out transsexuals other than to legalize discrimination.
As for the unisex bathroom issue, its not a practical solution and has been used to foster discrimination. In NJ we had a case where a trans woman was fired due to not being at her desk frequently enough. The problem was they assigned her to use the unisex bathroom in another building on the campus. Anyone who has been on Spiro will tell you it causes the need to frequently urinate. If you need to pee once an hour and the walk to the bathroom is 10 min, the person is away from the desk for 25 min of the hour.
similarly I can't fathom how you support the ID test when in large sections of the US its impossible for TS folks to gain ANY legal documents which specify the target gender. Even medical professional confirmation is problematic when most US TS folks have no health insurance nor resources to pay for medical professionals.
I recognize there's no simple fix to the dilemma, but use of Bathrooms is a major problem for the TS community... Its a safety issue, plain and simple,
Re: Arizona Bill Would Restrict Bathrooms by Birth Gender
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wendy Summers
Seanchai given how strong you've been in positively advocating for us, I am baffled at your position on this.
I'll accept your point that those not truly identifying female should not have a right to the use of the female restrooms. that said, if those parties gain access, existing law has penalties for the sorts of improper behavior - there's no need for a new law singling out transsexuals other than to legalize discrimination.
As for the unisex bathroom issue, its not a practical solution and has been used to foster discrimination. In NJ we had a case where a trans woman was fired due to not being at her desk frequently enough. The problem was they assigned her to use the unisex bathroom in another building on the campus. Anyone who has been on Spiro will tell you it causes the need to frequently urinate. If you need to pee once an hour and the walk to the bathroom is 10 min, the person is away from the desk for 25 min of the hour.
similarly I can't fathom how you support the ID test when in large sections of the US its impossible for TS folks to gain ANY legal documents which specify the target gender. Even medical professional confirmation is problematic when most US TS folks have no health insurance nor resources to pay for medical professionals.
I recognize there's no simple fix to the dilemma, but use of Bathrooms is a major problem for the TS community... Its a safety issue, plain and simple,
I'm not singling it out, Arizona is. I'm offering alternatives to how transsexual women could legally use the women's restrooms while men, shouldn't have the right to use the women's restrooms. The ID issue thing (which if you'd read the rest of my statements) was just something I threw out there mainly to preempt people stating something along the lines, that some transsexuals still look un-passable.
As Amber said:
"It is kinda weird for someone who truly doesn't identify as female to be in the womans room "
I'm supportive of transsexuals using the correct sex's bathrooms - I don't know how much clearer I can make that (did you really read all my posts?) - by condoning the usage of CD/TV's or any guy/girl who wants to use the opposite sexes bathroom, you're undermining the ability for TS's to have the rights to use it (and therefore, probably where these laws are coming from). A transsexual is not the same as a transvestite and should not have the same rights.
Re: Arizona Bill Would Restrict Bathrooms by Birth Gender
Checking IDs for bathroom usage is beyond absurd. I agree with Lamba Legal's take on this issue:
Quote:
The solution is quite simple, in theory. Everyone should use the restroom that matches their gender identity, regardless of whether they are making a gender transition or appear gender-nonconforming... There is no rule that a person must look a certain way to use a certain restroom... Asking someone to show ID to use a particular restroom is invasive and unnecessary.
http://data.lambdalegal.org/publicat...-restrooms.pdf
Additionally, states such as California have had laws on the books for years that specifically make it illegal to discriminate against people based on gender identity, or any "gender non-conforming" person, for any public accommodations including restrooms:
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Discrimination against transgender and gender-nonconforming people is prohibited in virtually every area of life in California, including housing, employment, education, insurance, and public accommodations. This means that you cannot be fired for being transgender, that a land lord cannot evict you from your apartment for being transgender, that you cannot be forced to use a restroom that does not match your gender identity at a restaurant...
http://transgenderlawcenter.org/issu...rimination-act
Furthermore, not just California has such non-discrimination laws, but so do others including Nevada, Colorado, and New Mexico -- that is, practically all of the states surrounding Arizona. So in some sense this current news is just a sign of the retrograde politics in Arizona, trying to hold back the wave of equal-rights recognition coming at it from all sides.
http://www.aclu.org/maps/non-discrim...nformation-map
Re: Arizona Bill Would Restrict Bathrooms by Birth Gender
most people think/feel that a TS is just a man in a dress.
many TG/TS do not want to get SRS so many states do not want to grant DL OR birth certificate changes.
only very passable or very pretty TS,TG and CD'S can go into the restroom without a hassle unless you or in a place like west hollywood where they do not care much.
