John Murtha calls for US pullout in Iraq.

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Originally Posted by fishman33

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Originally Posted by chefmike

I'm waiting for the Bush Family Evil Empire to launch some "swift-boat-vet" style lies against John Murtha, just as they did with John Kerry.

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personally, I hope to hell they don't. Not only was Murtha a fellow Marine(similar MOS infact), he never spoke out against the war while his fellows were still over there fighting it- and he deserves better. I really hate how politics tear apart veteran kinship in that way. And don't take that as a slap at Kerry. I refuse to pick sides in that little quarrel, just saying I think a little more highly of Murtha as a person than I do Kerry.

On Murhta's views, I think he still carries some of the bitterness of the pointlessness of Vietnam and the reception the veterans got on their return and he doesn't want the same thing happening to today's soldiers. I can see where he is comming from, but I don't think this compares to Vietnam in the slightest. We're talking 50,000 casualties versus 2,000 here. And not too shock you guys too much, initial estimates in the service were more than 2000 losses in the first year. I'm not going to debate or support Bush's motives, but the majority of Iraqis are much better off now, and they will tell that to you themselves. And anyone who has heard any of the testimony/accusations against Saddam has to realize the world is a better place without that maniac in charge of anything.

Besides, pulling out now only guarntees that those 2,000 died for nothing. Maybe the long run will prove that to be anyway, I don't now. But pulling out now would be just plain dumb.

just my $0.02

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Yes, without getting into the opinions on why shrubya got us into Iraq, I agree saddam is an evil person (as are numerous other tyrants around the world). You can't argue with that. But Murtha is doing the nation a service in reminding us that we entered the war with no practical plan for it's finish, and also bringing up the point that a great many Americans feel that we have a far greater mess on our hands than anyone ever imagined. And we have created a rallying point for Muslim fanatics around the world. And I hate that over 2,000 good citizens (and perhaps up to 100,000 Iraqui civilians) have died thus far...but many of us believe that any further deaths will also be in vain.

Gen. John P. Abizaid, the senior commander in the Middle East, stated that they need more troops to secure the borders of Iraq to minimize the flow of foreign insurgents, but Bush rejected the notion for more troops. General Shinseki briefed Rumsfeld that "he can't win this war, if they insist on invading Iraq, he can't win this war with less than 300,000 soldiers." Rumsfeld reportedly ordered Shinseki to go back and find a way to do this with 125,000 to 130,000, but Shinseki came back and said they couldn't do the job with that number. "What did Rumsfeld do?" Karpinski asked rhetorically. "If you can't agree with me, I'm going to find somebody who can. He made Shinseki a lame duck, for all practical purposes, and brought in Schoomaker. And Schoomaker got it. He said, 'Oh yes sir, we can do this with 125,000.'"

Bush: No More Troops For Iraq

Now Democrats ask for reducing troops and he rejects the notion. He rejects timetable, while he said the oppose during his 2000 campaign issue. Asked Clinton to have an exit strategy and timetable for Kosovo. Sounds like he is continuing to play both sides. Sounds like a flip flopper.

I am starting to get sick of listening to Bush about rebuilding Iraq, when he should be talking about rebuilding New Orleans, if it is feasible. I am sick of listening to Bush talk about Iraq freedom, while he continues to deny U.S. basic freedoms to a U.S. Citizen (right to see his lawyer and right to a speedy trial - took 3 years to make an indict him and never mentioned anything about Al Qaeda or dirty bomb in the indictment), Jose Padilla, while he goes after the Adult Industry, while he wants to continue sneak and peek search warrant without notice or showing of probable cause, while he voids out the Geneva Convention, says America does not torture, yet threats a veto on McCain's bill on torture. Where are his priorities? They continue to sound like he cares more about Iraq than the American people that elected him.

Personally, I hope that they reduce the number of troops in Iraq gradually, since Iraqi forces are over 200,000 now. If they have a problem with their development of Iraq security forces, he should state the issue instead of continuing to deny with no explanation why we don't need to withdrawl troops or increase the number of troops. With the reduction of troops, they should use the same number of troops to hunt down the top Al Qaeda leadership, especially Osama Bin Laden. I continue to see the clip of him telling New Yorkers that the build that knocked down these building, we hear from us. Four years later I am still waiting to see some action. :lol:

It's like you guys are hoping against hope, that Al Qaeda will win in Iraq, so you can say I told you so. With the Shiite Iranians on one side, and the Sunni Syrians on the other, and the rest of the world against them, it was just a matter of time before that country went into total civil war. A vacuum would have formed there, just like in Somalia. Give it a chance for the elections to happen. Live with it boys.....W ain't a quitter, like Slick Willie. 2 more years, 2 more years, 2 more years.

The national media focuses on polls and the rising deaths toll in Iraq.

Let's focus on the other Iraq news:
Growing GDP is good for those with access to the twin golden rivers flowing through Iraq—not the Tigris and Euphrates, but oil revenue and foreign aid. The rest of the economy is, on the whole, weak. Unemployment remains in the 30 to 40 percent range, and the psychologically most critical type of infrastructure—electricity—has barely improved since Saddam Hussein fell. Iraqi security forces are getting better, but they are also losing more than 200 men a month to the insurgency. Civilian casualties in Iraq from the war are as high as ever; combine that with the region's highest crime rates, and Iraq has clearly become a much more violent society since Hussein fell. Tactically, the resistance appears to be outmaneuvering the best military in the world in its use of improvised explosive devices. And politically, every move forward toward greater Sunni Arab participation in the political process seems to be accompanied by at least one step back.

House, Senate Agree to Extend Patriot Act

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Originally Posted by Felicia Katt

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Originally Posted by yourdaddy

Murtha makes two people in the world really happy when he says that. Al Zarqawi, and chefmike. How's your Arabic Mike? They could use another suicide bomber or two.

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A CNN USA Today Gallup Poll this week had 60 per cent of people saying it was not worth going to war.

60 per cent of 250 million is a lot more than 2.

FK

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CNN (Communist News Network)

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Originally Posted by chefmike

I'm waiting for the Bush Family Evil Empire to launch some "swift-boat-vet" style lies against John Murtha, just as they did with John Kerry.

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Lies? John Kerry is a pussy. Just look at him. He shot a gook in the back, and then whined for the rest of his life about the war.

I have a Vietnamese friend who immigrated from Vietnam during the war and he said, "America could have easily won that war. America just didn't want it bad enough." He also said, "In my country, we kill the enemy. We kill all of them. That's how you win."

faux news...we distort, you decide

John Kerry, like John Murtha, is a decorated veteran who served his country in a time of war. shrubya, cheney, limbaugh, rove, wolfowitz et al are chickenhawks....aka draft-dodging war-mongers...

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Originally Posted by yourdaddy

It's like you guys are hoping against hope, that Al Qaeda will win in Iraq, so you can say I told you so. With the Shiite Iranians on one side, and the Sunni Syrians on the other, and the rest of the world against them, it was just a matter of time before that country went into total civil war. A vacuum would have formed there, just like in Somalia. Give it a chance for the elections to happen. Live with it boys.....W ain't a quitter, like Slick Willie. 2 more years, 2 more years, 2 more years.

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I do hope we can come out of this with a victory and with a little US military loss as possible. I am against peole like Howard Dean saying we can not win. It's his honest opinion but as a Veteran, myself, it is not good for your moral as a soldier when you don't have support of the people that sent you.
I am far a Dubya fan. But he had the right intentions in acting to Iraq. He really believes it's the right thing to do. Unfortunately he is faily clueless, and was used by Cheney in making many decisions. Cheney has push his agenda through Bush. And Bush thinks it's his idea.
Did we go there for right reasons? I say Yes. Do we have a good and affective stratagy? NO. Will Iraq be better off after this? 10 years from now, we will say wow what a waste, when it is apparent that Iran has established its policy in Iraq.