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Actually you do. The roads you drive on, the water you drink, the police who keep the law enforced, the firemen who would put out your home if it was on fire, many many many things are ran by the government and paid with tax dollars.Quote:
Originally Posted by rocko
Things are going to get alot worse before they get any better here. The only way I could foresee national health care existing in the US would be some form of cataclysmic social upheaval or natural disaster/pestilence that renders the current system obsolete. Private Insurance companies, drug companies, etc.... have billions of dollars and they don't plan to relinquish the goose that laid the golden egg anytime soon.
Governments have been overthrown for less. My guess is that any sort of "healthcare reform" will actually involve a further privatization of the healthcare system and dismantling of existing care with a concerted PR campaign to convince the public that things are getting better.
Many factors influence those numbers. For example, "she" is more likely not to be overweight or obese than her American counterpart (cultural). Certain aliments have a higher mortality rate in the UK. You are more likely to die from breast cancer and prostate cancer over there than here.Quote:
Originally Posted by trish
Amy is absolutely right.Quote:
Originally Posted by AmyDaly
President Obama -- and former Presidents Bush & Clinton & Bush I & Reagan et al. -- claim to be so-called "free" market guys.
Well, why not then embrace a totally free market economy? Which means we've gotta privatize the military, the police and the fire dept. And tear up the public roads, highways and bridges... as they were built w/ public money. I mean, let's not hold back. And let's not forget: the Internet came out of the public sector and TVs and telephones.
But no one advocates this. Because it's utter insanity.
Of course they have a very selective "free" market philosophy. Even the right wing economist Milton Friedman didn't advocate the privatization and/or corporatization of the police and military. But, again, why not? We can't have selective free markets. We can't just pick and choose what's on the market and what's off. We can't be hypocrites about this.
And it's quite simple: Obama does not believe in free markets. So, why not take health care off the market?
healthcare is simply one of those things that should not be for profit. There's something fundamentally flawed about trying to make money from sick people rather than simply trying to make them well. And that's about it.
You know, I actually agreed with this until I walked into a McDonalds today, looked at all the fat asses and said you know what fuck these people they have no self control when it comes to personal health and they are the majority. A socialized health system works in a society with discipline, not one of 40 ozs and burgers with three fucking pieces of meat; we live in a country of over indulgence. There are many aspects of life that Americans are in fact disciplined in; personal health however is not one of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by raybbaby
I couldn't put it any better.Quote:
Originally Posted by raybbaby
This is the US, we can't have a dialog about anything without at least one side calling the other a bunch of Nazis.Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycanuck
the problem is those with money aren't quite ready to give up the massive profits they're makingQuote:
Originally Posted by Distance
First of all , in politics world wide it seems somewhat of a fashion for opponents to compare each other to Hitler, stalin etc. It isn't exclusively an american trait. Here in the UK , the party Iam a member of and campaign for UKIP are often called, bnp thugs in suits, racists and some people on my side call The Labour party stalinists, fascists etc.
Over in the states ,when Bush was potus the Liberal loons were screaming bush =Hitler , comparing gitmo to Belsen , and now we have the right wing loons painting moutasches on Obamas top lip and Palin (much as I love her ) screaming about death panels. What I find somewhat upsetting is while the right wing loons are stamping their feet , there are many people in americabeing made bankrupt by health care bills and avoiding the doctor despite a painful medical complaint. How is that right in a developed country? Shame on Palin.
Now Michael moores documentary , was I feel somewhat glossing over the NHS. Because I live in the UK some of what he said was not accurate. We have our problems also,it doesn't do the american people any good for him to decieve you . I personally wouldn't if I was american want to emulate the British NHS. The NHS needs reform. It is badly over managed, and while I would like to see more money put into the NHS we need to spend it far more wisely. Three things are happeing that mean all health care systems in the west are underpressure.
1 increased costs of medical treatments
2 an aging population living longer
3 open borders and heavy migration.
But despite being far to the right , Iam a firm believer of everyone whatever their circumstances having access to a decent level of health care as long as it meets good standards and is cost effective. Much of what the right are saying over in the states doesn't make sense to me. In fact I know many other right wingers who are passionate about the NHS.Surely if more people had access to a decent standard of health care it would improve workforce productivity? I think it comes down to a fierce independent de centralised mentality in many states in the US and sadly quite a bit of selfishness.