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I dunno Jamie.
when I started my first full time job 20 years ago they told me to save my money and invest it in the stock market for my golden years. I actually did that and lived kinda frugal
what a bag of total bullshit that turned out to be. I feel like I got motherfukin robbed. worse than getting held up in a liquor store
but who are the criminals and are they ever going to be held accountable?
Actualy in the coal mines, we are still looking for workers. 60k is not bad for a job in a recession.
@Flabbybody: you should have invested in US treasuries. They gave a lousy rate of return but survive nicely in a depression. The companies you invested in (assuming they survive) will be worth more in 2-3 years. Criminals: George Bush and Alan Greenspan and no, they won't be punished. Did I mention Chuck Prince?
Argh! You guys shouldn't have made me look at my 401k. I already knew my stocks were down, esp BRK.B. Grrrr!!!
Right now I am in a place where I depend on student aid (loans, and grants...mostly loans though). The recession has done two things....
It lowered the interest rates on my student loans. :-)
It caused my bank, Citi, to go to pot. They reduced my credit line to zero, but technically did not close the account. I paid at least the minimum or paid it off in full every month. I might as well have kept my cash. :-?
So it has made it harder for me to get new loans, but made it easier to pay on the loans I have... It could be worse. :-) (i.e. suppose the dow went to 1000 or less , every publicly traded company in the world would go under. It would be the economic equivalent of a neutron bomb.)
Yeah FB - that sucks. Too many people believe the hype about the stock market. And yes, it's true that OVER TIME the stock market has historically done well.
But if you look at the Dow charts from inception you will see periods where it was flat for 15-20 years, and of course the recent huge ups and downs in 2000-2003 and 2006 to present.
"They" tell you to invest for the "long term." Well, people who are 50 or 70 don't have "long term." What is the point of investing for the long term if you never get to enjoy the money? Is it just so you can survive after social security fails?
The problem is that:
1) For 40 years we continued to expand our reliance on oil
2) For 20 years we exported all our manufacturing jobs overseas
3) For 10 years we've been on a buying spree from China
4) For 5 years we exported our remaining tech jobs to India
5) Now we are paying the price - 7/11 clerks cannot afford $400,000 houses.
There is nothing left but stock speculation - and you can see where that's gotten us.
Do I have an answer? Not really.
1) Buy rental real estate - people always need a place to live.
2) Once the market stabilizes buy an index fund that tracks the S&P 500.
3) Buy an oil ETF (index fund that trades on oil futures) - one given is that oil is unlikely to go down, and if it does go down it won't be very far.
4) Once things start stabilizing buy into a European and Asian index fund. I'm just beginning to study this area - but it seems to me the Obama socialization is going to cause the dollar to tank. At some point foreign stocks should out perform US markets.
Hugs,
TS Jamie :-)
Brenda - you may be more right than you know. I'm hearing people talk of "3-3." That's a 3000 Dow and $3,000 gold.
I hope it doesn't get to that point, as it won't take a 1000 Dow - 3,000 could collapse the government and the world economy.
What Citi is doing to your credit is BS. That should be illegal. It's a good reason to hold multiple credit cards. The zero credit line will hurt your credit. You need to close the account and be sure it shows "closed by consumer" on the credit reports.
We need serious reform on student loans. I know people with over $100,000 in student loans and no way to ever pay it back.
Grants are unstable. My partner Jessica just lost $6,000 in student grant money, and may lose her Cal-Grant too thanks to the CA Governor. On the positive side she was just offered a grant funded research position at the University, and fortunately we are able to afford her tuition even if all her grants dry up, but it will cost many people their education. And that is wrong.
Sigh,
TS Jamie :-)
After studying the trading of currency, it’s funny how that you will discover that the: “Fears of depreciation becomes self-fulfilling prophecies”
What does this mean?
Your personal fears are driving this crash even further. Granted the markets are, or rather were overvalued because of failure to see intrinsic real values, meaning the real value of a stock. Over paying or under paying for stock. In this case, we are now undervaluing most companies. The DOW is a trader’s perspective, the shifting of one equity security to another, not a capital financier’s perspective (e.g. an IPO or the issuing of new stocks). This fear driven economy is now going to make it very difficult to raise future capital for corporations, which will cause the economy to dip even further.
If people would just stop freaking out for a minute, and we fixed the home loan mess this would be over quickly. I understand that most people are very angry that people bought homes that they could not afford, but we need to just get over it and just fix the problem.
If you would like further evidence of my theory, just look at the price of a barrel of oil last summer. Speculators had driven the cost to near peak of $150 a barrel, with a speculators forecasting prices of $200-$250. There were NO supply and demand issues to support the aggressive price climb, just pure speculation. Today oil is about $45 dollars a barrel and in a health economy, forecasted at $65 - $70.
I understand that many people lost money on their 401Ks and/or mutual funds, but if you understand long term investing and variable deviation of time and money, then it’s truly too soon to tell if you actual lost any “Real money.” Let me explain with this example:
I invested $1000 dollars in the year 2000…Time passes…Its now year 2008, your investment is valued at $2,200, ….After the crash of 2008, its now $1,200…Aww man, $&!%, I lost a $1000 dollars of my money on the markets. “This sucks, America is failing”
Wait! You still gained a $200 return on your investment…
Now, if were to just wait and ride out the economic storm, your investments should regain their theoretical loses.
Finally, if you’re mad at corporate America, remember shareholders allocate decision-making authority to the managers. The Board of Directors, who are voted on by YOU the stockholders, are the ones who hires the management.
Hmmm, just think about it-
More aggressive shareholder management of corporations is coming. Executives and Board members are gonna be left going "Huh, what, uhh... I thought you guys were supposed sit back and be silent."Quote:
Originally Posted by Nauty_lady_bug
And the same folks who abhor labor unions will be joining shareholder unions so they can combine their voting power and really put the hurt on management.
It's coming.
It wasn't just homeowners buying houses they could barely afford that caused all this.
Companies like AIG promised to pay loans that went bad. They essentially did the same thing dumb homeowners did; promise to pay more than they could afford.