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Too bad there never seem to be. If everyone were carrying all the time, and always had the safety of their guns off, and were really good marksman, and always had the guns accessible enough to pull them out this sort of thing wouldn't happen. If there's a country like that I want to live there. I bet that country would also have a great culture and higher education system;).Quote:
Originally Posted by NYBURBS
Well, it's unlikely to happen in a state that up until recently was a 'may issue' jurisdiction that almost never 'did' issue permits to people. Btw, many handguns don't have a safety in the way you're thinking, other than the pressure required to pull the trigger. Either way, calling 911 and waiting for the cops to show up obviously didn't help a bunch of people here avoid getting killed or wounded.Quote:
Originally Posted by broncofan
If I were in the middle of a shooting spree I'd prefer to have a gun loaded and ready (whatever that involves). I just mean nobody's expecting it. Think of how many people you've walked by in public in the last year let alone decade. Nobody can plan for every contingency. Even if you had the gun in your car, you might not have access to it when you need it.Quote:
Originally Posted by NYBURBS
I think for each individual we're talking about an alignment of the planets where carrying the gun would matter. You could do everything right and then be the one who gets shot from behind. You could do everything right and never come close to being in the vicinity of a shooting spree.
And think about the 10% of people (90% of statistics are made up) who have bad tempers. Who wouldn't pull a gun and start shooting when they're angry, but who might brandish it, or refer to it. And the chance they do it in the presence of someone else similarly disposed and armed...can you imagine how many "self-defense" cases we'd have?
I know you're a bright guy, and a sensible person, so please don't take this as a slight, but I think you may be ignorant as to how firearms work and are typically carried. Most people with a concealed carry permit have the weapon on their person, not in a vehicle (in fact it's generally a terrible idea to leave a weapon in an unattended vehicle). Moreover, a weapon is generally carried with a magazine inserted and a round in the chamber, so the weapon is actually ready to shoot. Some firearms come with a safety selector switch, others do not.Quote:
Originally Posted by broncofan
You're right that you could be armed and still end up dead, and the more firearms out there the more likely you are to have some hot head carrying one, but on the other hand people also have a right to defend their life. Waiting for the police to arrive is almost never going to save anyone. 99% of the time cops show up and take a report about what happened to you, and if lucky arrest the person they believe did it, but rare is the occasion that they are actually there to stop it before the damage is done.
That's a pretty loony statement right there. Anyone who makes such inane comments definitely shouldn't be allow to carry, let alone be on the police force.Quote:
Originally Posted by NYBURBS
He was a waste of oxygen and space. He should of just hung himself in his room. He stabbed to death three people in an apartment. And, he shot three people to death. He also hit four people with his car causing various injuries. He was going to kill with or without a gun.Quote:
Originally Posted by trish
http://news.yahoo.com/sheriff-calif-...005331176.html
The looney statement is, "too bad there weren't armed citizens..." Like a bunch of testosterone crazed gun lunatics trying to pick off a the driver of a moving BMW behind a tinted windshield isn't going to wreak even more havoc! Put your toys away and grow up.
Just like all gun toting loons, this particular alpha male was proving his worth to the female gender who apparently had enough sense to reject him en mass. So what's the solution? Fill the streets with gun toting good guy alpha males. Then we can have really cool shoots out like in a Sergio Leone western where the good guys always come through. Right? Testosterone cleanup in aisle six.
Yea because it's so wrongheaded to shoot someone that is trying to carry out multiple murders. I'm sure the police, once they arrived, just tried to talk to the poor guy... oh wait, that's right, they shot at him. So I guess your position is that a badge makes it OK, but everyone else should have to cross their fingers and hope for the best.Quote:
Originally Posted by trish
Ah, that guy is about as "alpha-male" as a flamboyant drag queen singing Tina Turner's greatest hits. Yea, he described himself as an alpha male, but he also wrote "everyone will fear me as the powerful god I am." He was a deeply ill, narcissistic sociopath, but he was no "alpha-male."Quote:
Originally Posted by trish
So the right to bear arms v the ability to easily acquire them.....
as a young Englishman, a student in California, yesterday went on the rampage and shot dead six young women because he was angry that girls ignored him and he was "still virgin". Not a US citizen so no right to have a gun was involved. But clearly this troubled bastard had no problem obtaining his firearm in the US.
Because it's looney to want to live on streets filled with "armed citizens" and expect that to have an attenuating effect on violence.Quote:
Originally Posted by NYBURBS
The same could be said of anyone one carries a firearm (outside of their job in the military, police etc.). Like a street filled with good guy alpha males with guns are going to stop crime rather than amplify it. It's a testosterone driven fantasy. Time to grow up now.Quote:
Originally Posted by NYBURBS
Let's compromise - let them carry their weapons but they have to have their hormone supply shut down.
Come on guys, must be worth it to get your hands round a firm AK-47
Quote:
Originally Posted by trish
"I am more than human. I am superior to them all. I am Elliot Rodger ... Magnificent, glorious, supreme, eminent ... Divine! I am the closest thing there is to a living god."
Praise the Lord, and pass the ammunition.
Of course I'll accept a minor slight like that for the compliments that preceded it jk. I think you're right about that but I don't think it hampers my ability to argue the main points very much. One doesn't have to be an intravenous drug user to know that they can be harmful to people.Quote:
Originally Posted by NYBURBS
This is a classic case of the rights of the individual to self-determine v. the rights of the state to protect public health. If there weren't a constitutional amendment, it would not even be a close case, as people are forced to cede absolute control of their lives frequently for the benefit of living in a civilized society.
I also think on the issue of public safety it's not a very close call.
Despite his focus on sex, I think what he really wanted was acceptance. He focused on sex because he thought it was the forbidden pleasure everyone had access to but him. Obviously he had major psychological problems, but at the core of it was loneliness and alienation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stavros
Pretend for one brief second that this is the Hell's Angels website, and not the Hung Angels.
Try to explain how sucking a dick isn't being a homo if that dick is attached to a beautiful woman. Make this Biker understand that getting your ass reamed is a safe and groovy experience as long as you use a condom, and all those AIDs cases are ....well. you know, shit happens.
There actually are cases where sexual deviants (rapists and child molesters) get snipped down there, and then they lose all desire to molest. But it's up to the molester, even the courts cringe at the thought of castrating a child molester.
If you live in a West Texas town, work a shitty 40 hour week in the local factory, getting drunk on Friday Night and shooting Stop Signs is healthy.
On the list of things wrong with the USA, I would say there are about 50 different variations of the Economy Crisis that rate above gun control.
THE THING is, all those problems are going to take a real effort to mend, while you could fix lots of gun loopholes by picking up a pen and signing a piece of paper.
Don't go riling up the rednecks while so much is being done with gay rights at this time!!!!
The people who are right about everything are very detached people.
I didn't understand your post until I read this line. Being right and convincing people are two different things I agree. .Quote:
Originally Posted by buttslinger
I have had conversations about guns with "rednecks" before I knew there was a major cultural divide on the issue. Me and this one guy were talking about important issues and suddenly the guy burst out "but they want to take our guns away." I said, "who cares? Are you an adult?". I'm not bragging about being out of touch, but it was my authentic reaction to what I thought was a bizarre outburst. We were just talking about economic fairness and social justice, and this is the sticking point for you?
But if some of us gun control folks were from West Texas would we have different views? It's depressing but many of us probably would.
I have noticed that the smart pro-gun people tend to become auto-didacts when it comes to how guns work, to the arcane regulations dealing with their ownership and use, as well as the different certifications demarcating each user's proficiency with them. They clearly have a profound cultural significance for some and can't be understood by the rest of us simply by thinking about their functions and risks.
I'm a Redskinfan, broncofan, and it took many repeated conversations to make me realize the name "REDSKIN" might be a slur to the millions of native Americans we killed and crammed into concent....reservations.
I'm sure deep down Indians think of ALL Whitemen as murderers.
LOL.. Too Funny.. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by buttslinger
I know a number of bikers and started my transition in one of the HA capitals of Canada.. The majority of bikers I've seen are very straight guys that are inexperienced and generally tops. Some of them like mutual oral and hardly any are bottoms..
I've been in a number of biker bars.. I put up with their bullshit and offer witty comebacks that makes them get very quiet.. In general.. I never felt unsafe around bikers at any time ever..
As for shooting rapists and child molesters.. I think they we need to make certain they are guilty before we do this.. I mean.. I'd have to be sure before I cap some motherfucker for raping my daughter.
People who are right about everything are wrong..
Murderers.. yes.. Handing out blankets tainted with smallpox and measles.. killing 80% by horrible disease..Quote:
Originally Posted by buttslinger
Killing all the buffalo.. Killing 75% of the reaming people and then putting them into reserves.. Destroying their culture and brainwashing their children in christian schools..
Wonderful way to build a nation..
It wasn't just white man.. the Spanish were every bit as bad or worse in central america..
Native American Peoples are still segregated, discriminated against and oppressed by the ruling class..
From Michael Moore's FB page. Think about it
With due respect to those who are asking me to comment on last night's tragic mass shooting at UCSB in Isla Vista, CA -- I no longer have anything to say about what is now part of normal American life. Everything I have to say about this, I said it 12 years ago: We are a people easily manipulated by fear which causes us to arm ourselves with a quarter BILLION guns in our homes that are often easily accessible to young people, burglars, the mentally ill and anyone who momentarily snaps. We are a nation founded in violence, grew our borders through violence, and allow men in power to use violence around the world to further our so-called American (corporate) "interests." The gun, not the eagle, is our true national symbol. While other countries have more violent pasts (Germany, Japan), more guns per capita in their homes (Canada [mostly hunting guns]), and the kids in most other countries watch the same violent movies and play the same violent video games that our kids play, no one even comes close to killing as many of its own citizens on a daily basis as we do -- and yet we don't seem to want to ask ourselves this simple question: "Why us? What is it about US?" Nearly all of our mass shootings are by angry or disturbed white males. None of them are committed by the majority gender, women. Hmmm, why is that? Even when 90% of the American public calls for stronger gun laws, Congress refuses -- and then we the people refuse to remove them from office. So the onus is on us, all of us. We won't pass the necessary laws, but more importantly we won't consider why this happens here all the time. When the NRA says, "Guns don't kill people -- people kill people," they've got it half-right. Except I would amend it to this: "Guns don't kill people -- Americans kill people." Enjoy the rest of your day, and rest assured this will all happen again very soon.
In an intriguing feature which I posted elsewhere, the retired US supreme court judge John Paul Stevens calls for a modest change to the second amendment. He suggests that it apply only to those who keep and bear arms "when serving in the Militia."
Small word change... big sea change. Won't happen.
I'm too stupid to really understand the answer here, is there really anybody who would want me to make an uninformed decision that counts? Who do you trust?
Maybe we are the DEBATE Country that never can agree on where to draw the line.
I had a prescription for Cialis, I think it is like 10 bucks for a 20mg pill in the US, it is 2 bucks in Canada. But if you go on the internet and try to find a Canadian Pharmacy that is trustworthy, you will be inundated by reviews that say such and such pharmacy is fantastic, and you will have just as many reviews that say the exact same pharmacy will steal your credit card number and rip you off bad.
So the only rational reason for the gun violence in the USA is.....there is SO MUCH MONEY to be made here, that you're never going to get a straight answer out of somebody if they stand to make, literally, MILLIONS of Dollars!!
If you own a Gun Company or a Pharmaceutical Company, you might not spend a ton of money to influence gun laws and medical laws in Canada with it's 35 million people. But the USA with almost ten times as many people and money??? Goddamm Right you're going to spend money influencing "the truth" as people see it. It's called ADVERTISING.
Cigarettes, Red Meat, Sugar, Pills, Beer, high sucrose corn syrup, French fries, cola drinks, all that stuff is bad for you but hey, I got a coupon!!!!!!!
First of.. Here in Vancouver BC Canada Cialis cost $75 for a box of 4 from the drugstore.. not $2 a pill.. Generic Viagra is $40 a box of 4.. I know cuz I have scripts for both..Quote:
Originally Posted by buttslinger
Also.. If I am responsible, don't go killing people and only shoot targets then why should I not be allowed to legally posses firearms?
Guns should not be banned.. they should be regulated.. It makes a big difference..
Let us also remember.. more people get stabbed rather than shot..
The problem is in people's minds.. not in the weapons they use..
deleted
Quote:
Originally Posted by buttslinger
Nice ad. My daily carry is a Beretta :dancing:
Here's where I get 100 generic Cialis tabs for 198 bucks, free shipping. They're from India, I think, .......they work.
https://www.northwestpharmacy.com/pr....aspx?s=cialis
Viagra was all set to go generic in the US, they got some Kangaroo Court in Virginia to extend the patent.
If you have a Hung Angels Art Contest, you'll get some nice entries, see a side of people here you haven't seen. If you offer a $100,000.00 prize, you'll see Art from top Artists that is unbelievably good.
Same with Guns. You have incredibly smart people figuring out ways to get guns to people who like guns. Seducing Willing Customers.
It's either that or Americans are receiving subliminal messages through their TV and Radios to go out and Kill People.
A bit of balance
That's gotta be one of the stupidest bans in this country. What the fuck happened when kids can't read Little Red Riding Hood? SMDH...
Mostly BS..Quote:
Originally Posted by Turlington
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...ding-hood-has/
If Granny had an AR-15, they could have had some nice Wolf KeBabs with their wine.
The World is just going to have to live with guns in the USA, like they "stood by" with the Iraq War, Slavery, Nuclear ICBMs, Wall Street, Guantanamo, Reality TV, Kim Kardashian, and all the other millions of misadventures, sins, and WRONGS that occur every second of the day. We're just a bunch of "Meat Suits" walking around, what do you expect?
On the other hands, you are free to move to any other country you like, the average American might REALISTICALLY have more of a chance to advance himself farther than any other time in the World's existence. The only Guarantee is, you make your plans, then LIFE happens.
When you wave a gun at somebody, you expect them to listen to what you say. When you aim your gun at LIFE, life isn't scared of you.
I predict gun violence will diminish about the same time China and India take over the World's economy.
What if George W Bush really knew what he was doing, and his pals grabbed the last bit of wealth that existed in the West before Asia takes over, do the Gov't Mensa Tea Leaf Readers see that the party is over for the west, and the future is cardboard houses and Walmart franchises?
Why the moronic gun violence in the USA? You tell me, man, I only live here.
http://kdvr.com/2014/02/07/bail-hear...n-fla-theater/
When one sees news headlines such as this, you can guess there was a gun involved. The man was texting because he had gotten something, from the baby sitter of his 2 year old daughter. He and the shooter got into some angry words, apparently.
Author and radio host Thom Hartmann:
Guns Should be Regulated Like Cars:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaRZecaOaHk
Only in a place as fucked up as the US would a grieving father be attacked for asking for a little sense on gun control.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...A4N05120140526
This from Mother Jones magazine... debunking some gun enthusiasts myths.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...ths-fact-check
10 Pro-Gun Myths, Shot Down
Fact-checking some of the gun lobby's favorite arguments shows they're full of holes.
—By Dave Gilson
By cutting off federal funding for research and stymieing data collection and sharing, the National Rifle Association has tried to do to the study of gun violence what climate deniers have done to the science of global warming. No wonder: When it comes to hard numbers, some of the gun lobby's favorite arguments are full of holes.
Myth #1: They're coming for your guns.
Fact-check: No one knows the exact number of guns in America, but it's clear there's no practical way to round them all up (never mind that no one in Washington is proposing this). Yet if you fantasize about rifle-toting citizens facing down the government, you'll rest easy knowing that America's roughly 80 million gun owners already have the feds and cops outgunned by a factor of around 79 to 1.
Sources: Congressional Research Service (PDF), Small Arms Survey
Myth #2: Guns don't kill people—people kill people.
Fact-check: People with more guns tend to kill more people—with guns. The states with the highest gun ownership rates have a gun murder rate 114% higher than those with the lowest gun ownership rates. Also, gun death rates tend to be higher in states with higher rates of gun ownership. Gun death rates are generally lower in states with restrictions such as assault-weapons bans or safe-storage requirements. Update: A recent study looking at 30 years of homicide data in all 50 states found that for every one percent increase in a state's gun ownership rate, there is a nearly one percent increase in its firearm homicide rate.
Sources: Pediatrics, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
Myth #3: An armed society is a polite society.
Fact-check: Drivers who carry guns are 44% more likely than unarmed drivers to make obscene gestures at other motorists, and 77% more likely to follow them aggressively.
• Among Texans convicted of serious crimes, those with concealed-handgun licenses were sentenced for threatening someone with a firearm 4.8 times more than those without.
• In states with Stand Your Ground and other laws making it easier to shoot in self-defense, those policies have been linked to a 7 to 10% increase in homicides.
This Is How the NRA Lies to Gun Owners About Obama's Agenda
NRA's School Security Plan Cites Phony Shooting
This Collection of NRA Ads Reveals Its Descent Into Crazy
The NRA Myth of Gun-Free Zones
Gunmakers and the NRA Bet Big on Silencers. What Could Go Wrong?
Investigators Discover NRA Materials in Newtown Killer's House
EXCLUSIVE: Unmasking the NRA's Inner Circle
Meet the NRA's Board of Directors
The NRA Myth of Arming the Good Guys
How the NRA and Its Allies Helped Spread a Radical Gun Law Nationwide
See our full special report on gun laws and the rise of mass shootings in America.
Myth #4: More good guys with guns can stop rampaging bad guys.
Fact-check: Mass shootings stopped by armed civilians in the past 30 years: 0
• Chances that a shooting at an ER involves guns taken from guards: 1 in 5
Myth #5: Keeping a gun at home makes you safer.
Fact-check: Owning a gun has been linked to higher risks of homicide, suicide, and accidental death by gun.
• For every time a gun is used in self-defense in the home, there are 7 assaults or murders, 11 suicide attempts, and 4 accidents involving guns in or around a home.
• 43% of homes with guns and kids have at least one unlocked firearm.
• In one experiment, one third of 8-to-12-year-old boys who found a handgun pulled the trigger.
Myth #6: Carrying a gun for self-defense makes you safer.
Fact-check: In 2011, nearly 10 times more people were shot and killed in arguments than by civilians trying to stop a crime.
• In one survey, nearly 1% of Americans reported using guns to defend themselves or their property. However, a closer look at their claims found that more than 50% involved using guns in an aggressive manner, such as escalating an argument.
• A Philadelphia study found that the odds of an assault victim being shot were 4.5 times greater if he carried a gun. His odds of being killed were 4.2 times greater.
Myth #7: Guns make women safer.
Fact-check: In 2010, nearly 6 times more women were shot by husbands, boyfriends, and ex-partners than murdered by male strangers.
• A woman's chances of being killed by her abuser increase more than 7 times if he has access to a gun.
• One study found that women in states with higher gun ownership rates were 4.9 times more likely to be murdered by a gun than women in states with lower gun ownership rates.
Myth #8: "Vicious, violent video games" deserve more blame than guns.
Fact-check: So said NRA executive vice president Wayne LaPierre after Newtown. So what's up with Japan?
United States Japan
Per capita spending
on video games $44 $55
Civilian firearms
per 100 people 88 0.6
Gun homicides
in 2008 11,030 11
Sources: PricewaterhouseCoopers, Small Arms Survey (PDF), UN Office on Drugs and Crime
Myth #9: More and more Americans are becoming gun owners.
Fact-check: More guns are being sold, but they're owned by a shrinking portion of the population.
• About 50% of Americans said they had a gun in their homes in 1973. Today, about 45% say they do. Overall, 35% of Americans personally own a gun.
• Around 80% of gun owners are men. On average they own 7.9 guns each.
Myth #10: We don't need more gun laws—we just need to enforce the ones we have.
Fact-check: Weak laws and loopholes backed by the gun lobby make it easier to get guns illegally.
• Around 40% of all legal gun sales involve private sellers and don't require background checks. 40% of prison inmates who used guns in their crimes got them this way.
• An investigation found 62% of online gun sellers were willing to sell to buyers who said they couldn't pass a background check.
• 20% of licensed California gun dealers agreed to sell handguns to researchers posing as illegal "straw" buyers.
• The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives has not had a permanent director for 6 years, due to an NRA-backed requirement that the Senate approve nominees.
This article has been updated.
Icons in gun ownership chart: Handgun designed by Simon Child, rifle designed by Nadav Barkan, shotgun designed by Ammar Ceker, all from the Noun Project
Front page image by konstantynov/Shutterstock
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DAVE GILSONSenior Editor
Dave Gilson is a senior editor at Mother Jones. Read more of his stories, follow him on Twitter, or contact him at dgilson (at) motherjones (dot) com. RSS | TWITTER
Both the NRA and the GOVT doesn't say anything until it goes by a team of lawyers and strategists, they pick the absolute best answer available to promote their own agenda.
Just like a Bank Robber picks a gun to promote his bank robbing agenda.
A joke is a joke and the truth is the truth and a vote is a vote, but I'm not sure I would vote on removing all the guns in existence, which is just about what it would take to solve the problem. I would have to give that some serious thought.
The United States may be the first World Power that doesn't routinely annex other countries.
We're so special!!!!!:dancing:
Agree or we'll kill you.
Has the so called smart guns been mentioned on here? If not there was a gun owner in Maryland that was going to start carrying them until he got threats from <drum roll please> gun owners LOL!
http://www.theverge.com/2014/5/5/568...mart-guns-away
Fact check huh..Quote:
Originally Posted by Prospero
OK.. take my shotgun.. put it on the balcony in a chair..
Lots of people within 100 yards and it's loaded with 00 buck..
I wait and watch.. the gun doesn't do anything..
So I figure.. maybe it's cuz I'm watching..
I go inside and leave the gun by itself with lots of targets.. couple hours go by..
I think it moved.. maybe a bit.. not sure tho..
How long do I have to wait before the gun tries to kill someone???
Guns do not kill people.. people kill people..