An outsider watching the US health care debate

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Originally Posted by trish

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I live in DC, and if the protesters numbered in excess of a million

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Bullshit and if you live in DC and have seen other marches you know it's bullshit. The most reliable sources put the numbers at 70 thousand tops. Other networks (besides Fox) did indeed cover the march and they gave it amount of coverage it deserved. Hey, I bet you have a big dick too.

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That million estimate came from the white house. It was BEFORE the protests started and probably meant to scare up a bunch of counterprotesters. If you don't consider the Washington Post reliable, I would ignore their estimate, which was 200k.

Conservatives are finally learning how to organize a protest...

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Originally Posted by giovanni_hotel

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Originally Posted by duplicatt

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Originally Posted by giovanni_hotel

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Originally Posted by Beagle

Jay,

So is Obama a war criminal too?

He hasn't brought home the troops.

He supports the Bush Patriot Act.

If you're honest you would have to agree that the level of hatred and Hitler comparison were SO much more open and prevalent against Bush than Obama.

And I'm not condoning either one. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of the left.

Look, this health care debate has nothing to do with this Hitler nonsense.

It's about the vast majority of Americans who DO NOT want the government in the health care business. Plain and simple.

No matter how you slice and dice it, it is that simple. The Democrats in this country hold all the strings. They could have voted this thing in months ago if they wanted to. Why havent they?

Because in a massive grass roots effort, the voters of all these Democratic congressmen and Senators have wrote them and told them in no uncertain terms that they DON'T WANT any more government health care debacles.

It's very simple. The people have spoken.

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But 8 months into his 1st term as POTUS, who was protesting against Bush and comparing him to Hitler??

It's the relative instantaneous rebuke of Obama, for a President who has very little track record so far to criticize, that's hypocrital.

Right wingers are mobilizing against Obama as if he's in the third year of his 3nd term, not less than a year into his first term.

Bush 'earned' that level of animus from the American people, Obama so far has not.

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I ask you what President Bush had done at this point in his first term. The answer is very little. President Obama has done quite a bit and is trying to do more. If Bush had pushed as many programs in his first days in office as Obama has, there would have been a similar backlash. As it was, there were already people who wouldn't cut him any slack because of Florida 2000.

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Right. Obama should damn near be impeached for saving the global economy from collapse, sending out a life preserver to the U.S. auto industry and attempting to reform the outrageous failure of the private heath care industry.

Obama is a very BAD MAN. :roll:

You conservatives are permanently out lunch!!!

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It's in doubt whether or not the stimulus package or the auto bailout will do any good, and we're just talking about the U.S. crisis. Obama was criticised by the Europeans and the Russians for his handling of the crisis, and they didn't copy America's plan for handling it.

It's too early to say Obama is "ruining" everything. I think his biggest mistake thus far has been the scrapping of the "Third Base" missile defense plan. The Auto Industry bailout could be a domestic failure, because Chrysler was in dire straits before the banking crisis, and is held by a private company to begin with.

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Originally Posted by giovanni_hotel

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Originally Posted by duplicatt

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Originally Posted by giovanni_hotel

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Originally Posted by Beagle

Jay,

So is Obama a war criminal too?

He hasn't brought home the troops.

He supports the Bush Patriot Act.

If you're honest you would have to agree that the level of hatred and Hitler comparison were SO much more open and prevalent against Bush than Obama.

And I'm not condoning either one. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of the left.

Look, this health care debate has nothing to do with this Hitler nonsense.

It's about the vast majority of Americans who DO NOT want the government in the health care business. Plain and simple.

No matter how you slice and dice it, it is that simple. The Democrats in this country hold all the strings. They could have voted this thing in months ago if they wanted to. Why havent they?

Because in a massive grass roots effort, the voters of all these Democratic congressmen and Senators have wrote them and told them in no uncertain terms that they DON'T WANT any more government health care debacles.

It's very simple. The people have spoken.

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But 8 months into his 1st term as POTUS, who was protesting against Bush and comparing him to Hitler??

It's the relative instantaneous rebuke of Obama, for a President who has very little track record so far to criticize, that's hypocrital.

Right wingers are mobilizing against Obama as if he's in the third year of his 3nd term, not less than a year into his first term.

Bush 'earned' that level of animus from the American people, Obama so far has not.

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I ask you what President Bush had done at this point in his first term. The answer is very little. President Obama has done quite a bit and is trying to do more. If Bush had pushed as many programs in his first days in office as Obama has, there would have been a similar backlash. As it was, there were already people who wouldn't cut him any slack because of Florida 2000.

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Right. Obama should damn near be impeached for saving the global economy from collapse, sending out a life preserver to the U.S. auto industry and attempting to reform the outrageous failure of the private heath care industry.

Obama is a very BAD MAN. :roll:

You conservatives are permanently out lunch!!!

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It's in doubt whether or not the stimulus package or the auto bailout will do any good, and we're just talking about the U.S. crisis. Obama was criticised by the Europeans and the Russians for his handling of the crisis, and they didn't copy America's plan for handling it.

It's too early to say Obama is "ruining" everything. I think his biggest mistake thus far has been the scrapping of the "Third Base" missile defense plan. The Auto Industry bailout could be a domestic failure, because Chrysler was in dire straits before the banking crisis, and is held by a private company to begin with.

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Originally Posted by jaycanuck

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Originally Posted by duplicatt

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Originally Posted by jaycanuck

He's attempting to shut down Guantanamo, he's relocating troops to Afghanistan (where they should've been in the first place looking for Osama).

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Why? If Osama is even alive (have we seen any video of Osama? we know one of his sons sounds just like him), he's in Pakistan. Should we invade our putative ally Pakistan willy-nilly?

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Why's the US in Iraq then?

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What do you mean? Do you think they were an ally when we invaded?

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Originally Posted by giovanni_hotel

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Originally Posted by duplicatt

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Originally Posted by giovanni_hotel

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Originally Posted by Beagle

Jay,

So is Obama a war criminal too?

He hasn't brought home the troops.

He supports the Bush Patriot Act.

If you're honest you would have to agree that the level of hatred and Hitler comparison were SO much more open and prevalent against Bush than Obama.

And I'm not condoning either one. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of the left.

Look, this health care debate has nothing to do with this Hitler nonsense.

It's about the vast majority of Americans who DO NOT want the government in the health care business. Plain and simple.

No matter how you slice and dice it, it is that simple. The Democrats in this country hold all the strings. They could have voted this thing in months ago if they wanted to. Why havent they?

Because in a massive grass roots effort, the voters of all these Democratic congressmen and Senators have wrote them and told them in no uncertain terms that they DON'T WANT any more government health care debacles.

It's very simple. The people have spoken.

---

But 8 months into his 1st term as POTUS, who was protesting against Bush and comparing him to Hitler??

It's the relative instantaneous rebuke of Obama, for a President who has very little track record so far to criticize, that's hypocrital.

Right wingers are mobilizing against Obama as if he's in the third year of his 3nd term, not less than a year into his first term.

Bush 'earned' that level of animus from the American people, Obama so far has not.

---

I ask you what President Bush had done at this point in his first term. The answer is very little. President Obama has done quite a bit and is trying to do more. If Bush had pushed as many programs in his first days in office as Obama has, there would have been a similar backlash. As it was, there were already people who wouldn't cut him any slack because of Florida 2000.

---

Right. Obama should damn near be impeached for saving the global economy from collapse, sending out a life preserver to the U.S. auto industry and attempting to reform the outrageous failure of the private heath care industry.

Obama is a very BAD MAN. :roll:

You conservatives are permanently out lunch!!!

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How did President Obama save the world economy? A lot of the stimulus money has even been spent yet.

And didn't most of the sales in the Cash For Clunkers program go to foreign nameplates?

I've already shown that the US has the longest life expectancy if you adjust for accidents and murders. How is the US health care system a failure if that is true?

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Originally Posted by duplicatt

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Originally Posted by jaycanuck

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Originally Posted by duplicatt

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Originally Posted by jaycanuck

He's attempting to shut down Guantanamo, he's relocating troops to Afghanistan (where they should've been in the first place looking for Osama).

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Why? If Osama is even alive (have we seen any video of Osama? we know one of his sons sounds just like him), he's in Pakistan. Should we invade our putative ally Pakistan willy-nilly?

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Why's the US in Iraq then?

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What do you mean? Do you think they were an ally when we invaded?

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What were they doing to the US?

They were living on top of our oil, damnit Jay!

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Originally Posted by raybbaby

They were living on top of our oil, damnit Jay!

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haha! That's the answer I wanted to hear! Heaven forbid they took those billions spent on the war and develop new energy sources. But...silly me, I'm sure it wasn't about oil. :roll:

New Zealand citizen here, lived in Australia too - great socialized healthcare in those countries. I live in San Diego CA now and my health care cost goes up every year while I have never made a claim, I am in perfect health and in my early 30s. I see a corporate health care system in the US that is good as long as you can pay for it. I also see healthcare costs going unregulated to keep climbing to a point that many of the average will not be able to afford it in the next 10 or 20 years.

One of my good friends needed a kidney transplant, they denied him over and over again until he showed up at the medical review board looking like a zombie. $1,000,000 operation later and a total medical bankrupsy and he is fine. I think his cost with health insurance was somewhere around $250,000. Why should he be bankrupt if he had medical insurance?

I think Americans are confused when they say they do not trust government on healthcare. To clear up the air the politicians are not the ones that actually operate on you. Doctors and Hospitals are a different system than government, they are there to care for the sick not to decide if you are eligable for insurance or not. Let the doctors do their thing and the poloticians do their thing, provide funding and your care will not be in the hands of the government.

I say go universal health care in the USA and even cover medical procedures on transgender people! If the system falls apart then we will go back to what is there now. Like the metric system Americans are a bunch of dumb asses to think that their system is somehow better than every other westernized country. I want to run for president and do one thing while in office - bring the metric system to the United States! From then on no one will be able to manufacture a new product in "standard" measurment (replacement "standard" products will have to be tolerated). Am I wrong? I mean what is easier to remember: 14mm comes after 13mm or 9/16" comes after 1/2"??? Or is it easier to remeber that water boils and freezes at 100c & 0c or 32f & 212f??? The arogance of the US, second only to England.

So, gee if there were only 70,000 stragglers at the Wash DC protest, then this whole protest thing is really overblown then.

My bad.

In this case, since there's so much widespread support for Obama and the Dems plan that they'll enact this plan ASAP with no problem. No need for the Repubs at all.

Buaahahahaaaaa!!!!!

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Am I wrong? I mean what is easier to remember: 14mm comes after 13mm or 9/16" comes after 1/2"???

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You are mixing concepts. There's no reason to use fractions and fractions are an inherent part of INCH measurements. Decimal inches are just as easy to remember and work with as metric dimensions.

And .562 comes after .500 whether the units are inches or centimeters.