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really?
Really
House Keeping
Stick with the orginal question. Hippiefried noted: "We ARE the government." You questioned it and I affirmed it. Twice. I'll affirm it again if you like: Yes, We ARE the government.
If we don't have the same laws or understandings that we started with in the eighteenth century, then that's our doing. For what goes right, we take the credit. For what goes wrong, we take the blame. I proudly count myself IN on this historical ride.
House Keeping
I'd say a constitutional republic is the term. There are indeed powerful extra-governmental influences( e.g. corporations, unions, political parties, individual action organizations, political action organizations , environmental organizations etc.) but none of them are in command of the government. All of them court public opinion and all of them court the same representatives the public elects. It's nowhere near an oligarchy as I see it. When it gets that far, I'll pick up my old hunting rifles and walk along side InHouston. That's a measure of how far we are from having an oligarchical governement.
House Keeping
Nothing? The Supreme Court is still handing down decisions and the litigants still do abide by the Supreme Court.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Nino
I gave my reasons why I categorize our nation as a constitutional republic. You have chosen not to address them. So I will continue to focus on your claim. You say we live in an oligarchy. If you mean this literally (which I take it you do) and not in some metaphorical sense, then there must literally be a handful of people in absolute command over all aspects of the government and who have no need of convincing or beguiling any part of the legislature, executive branch, judicial branch, military or the public in order to have their way. They simply demand and the rest comply without question. That's oligarchy.
Our form of government is not that of an oligarchy nor is it effectively an oligarchy. Sure powerful industries sometimes get what they want through influence, fair and corrupt. Halliburton for example had a great deal of interest in starting the war in Iraq and they had a great deal of influence through Cheney and Bush. Haliburton was and is in a position to bribe and influence, but it is not in a position to command the government. Can you imagine Cheney taking orders from Haliburton execs? Cheney and Bush aren't oligarchs because oligarch don't have a term of office. Who are the oligarchs? There simply is no oligarchy that can be seen.
You could claim that the oligarchs are well hidden. But that turns your claim into an unprovable conspiracy theory.
You might even claim the oligarchs are well hidden and their methods are so subtle that they don't work through a chain of command like in a real oligarchy but instead they work through influence, bribery and blackmail. But then you don't have real oligarchs any more nor a real oligarchy. You've got a watered down metaphor. You just got powerful players trying their utmost to control the strings of governmental power to benefit their own interests. We've always had players like that. That's why checks and balances are important. That's why we need to be vigilant. But the existence of such players does not constitute an oligarchy. In so far as they might engage in bribery and blackmail, they are criminals. In so far as they don't, they are the people too, albeit often rather selfish ones.
Trish you are a very idealic person. IRL the government is out to protect the interest of a truly privillaged few, old money, white, corporate magnates, at the expense of the masses. Society is a pyramid, always a pyramid and most of us are much closer to the bottom of it.
The only leverage we have is that the mass of us would if pushed too far revolt, perhaps violently.
Knowing you.... as you appear on this board.... you would never agree to this. You are an idealist, and very optimistic.
I look at the world with the eyes of gunnery Sergeant Hartman. you gotta have a warface. You gotta have guts. Life is a battlefield.
A cold cruel place set on destroying us without compunction. That can very well include a friendly neighborhood transphobic police man. If a gun helps one to preserve and persevere then by all means have it.
The pessimist sees the glass half empty.
The optimist sees the glass half full.
The engineer sees a mismatch between the size of the glass & the amount of liquid.
I'm sure there's more of those.
We are the government.
We revolt through the ballot box.
We get a shot at it every 2 years.
If anybody doesn't like the way things are, all they have to do is convince people that they're right. That's the democratic process.
The founders weren't omnicient. The constitution has been amended 27 times. The mechanism for doing so is built in.
We are the government.