An outsider watching the US health care debate

Ray,

I am not surprised you dismissed their proposals out of hand.

First you said they didn't propose anything and now you say you don't like what they propose.

This is part of the problem with this debate. People say pretty much say and do anything to try and make a point.

Let me offer this comment about serious proposals.

You cant put forth a serious proposal about cutting health care COSTS unless you address tort reform. Just look in the yellow pages under lawyers and you'll see part of the problem. Obama is beholden to the trial lawyers and won't address this problem. Hence, no tort reform.

http://www.gop.gov/solutions/healthcare

Anyway, there were a lot of excellent suggestions and alternatives put forth by the Republicans and I'm willing to bet that mainstream America will accept these plans much more readily than ObamaCare.

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Originally Posted by jaycanuck

Sorry Beagle. I finished.

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That's OK Jay.

I understand. This whole thing about health care isn't about open, polite and honest debate of the facts.

It's about distorting the truth and getting upset when people don't get their way.

The radical left thought that since Obama won the election everything would go his way. Little did they understand that Obama didn't win because people really liked his politics, he won because so many people (left and right) hated GWB.

So, now the left just can't understand when people actually oppose and disagree with Obama!!! Gasp!!!! How can this be!!

Obama is certainly cementing the notion that Democrats are tax and spend liberals. (and yes, I do know the GWB taxed and spent too).

I look forward to a day of true conservative government and also a government that stays out of your personal life.

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Originally Posted by Beagle

You cant put forth a serious proposal about cutting health care COSTS unless you address tort reform. Just look in the yellow pages under lawyers and you'll see part of the problem.

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Tort reform is necessary. In his address to Congress the President addressed and affirmed the need for tort reform. But suits directly contribute very little to cost of health care. The main effect of tort reform will be to lessen the pressure on doctors to conduct thorough tests when searching for a diagnosis of a patient’s health problem. The theory is that many useless tests are being ordered just to cover the doctor’s ass in case the real cause of a patient’s problem is overlooked. True enough, thorough testing is expensive and often seems useless when you think you already know what the problem is. On the other hand, if the doctor is sure enough to risk the patient’s life, but not sure enough to risk his own financial wellbeing, then how sure is he really? Is he sure enough to work on you?

Trish,

In more comprehensive Tort Reform scenarios there are also panels that could review and reject frivolous lawsuits.

There also has be steps taken to reduce the enormous cost of malpractice insurance.

There seems to be a notion that health insurance companies are evil and drowning in ill-gotten profits. Actually, health insurance companies make very little profit.

I thought it might be good to actually post the Republican response...

Here is the Republican response on Health Care. Instead of just dismissing it like Ray did, perhaps you can read it.



Rep. Boustany Delivers Republican Health Care Address

Washington, Sep 9 - Below is the full text (as prepared) of tonight’s Republican address on health care, delivered by Dr. Charles Boustany (R-LA) following President Obama’s speech to a Joint Session of Congress:

“Good evening. I’m Dr. Charles Boustany, and I’m proud to serve the people of Louisiana’s Seventh Congressional District. I’m also a heart surgeon with more than 20 years of experience, during which I saw first-hand the need for lowering health care costs.

“Republicans are pleased that President Obama came to the Capitol tonight. We agree much needs to be done to lower the cost of health care for all Americans. On that goal, Republicans are ready – and we’ve been ready – to work with the President for common-sense reforms that our nation can afford.

“Afford is an important word. Our country is facing many challenges. The cost of health care is rising. Federal spending is soaring. We’re piling huge debt on our children. And families and small businesses are struggling through a jobless recovery, with more than 2.4 million private-sector jobs lost since February.

“It’s clear the American people want health care reform, but they want their elected leaders to get it right. Most Americans wanted to hear the President tell Speaker Pelosi, Majority Leader Reid and the rest of Congress that it’s time to start over on a common-sense, bipartisan plan focused on lowering the cost of health care while improving quality. That’s what I heard over the past several months in talking to thousands of my constituents.

“Replacing your family’s current health care with government-run health care is not the answer. In fact, it’ll make health care much more expensive. That’s not just my personal diagnosis as a doctor or a Republican; it’s the conclusion of the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office – the neutral scorekeeper that determines the cost of major bills.

“I read the bill Democrats passed through committee in July. It creates 53 new government bureaucracies, adds hundreds of billions to our national debt, and raises taxes on job-creators by $600 billion. And, it cuts Medicare by $500 billion, while doing virtually nothing to make the program better for our seniors.

“The President had a chance tonight to take government-run health care off the table. Unfortunately, he didn’t do it.

“We can do better, with a targeted approach that tackles the biggest problems. Here are four important areas where we can agree, right now:

“One, all individuals should have access to coverage, regardless of preexisting conditions.

“Two, individuals, small businesses and other groups should be able to join together to get health insurance at lower prices, the same way large businesses and labor unions do.

“Three, we can provide assistance to those who still cannot access a doctor.

“And, four, insurers should be able to offer incentives for wellness care and prevention – something particularly important to me. I operated on too many people who could have avoided surgery if they’d simply made healthier choices earlier in life.

“We do have ideas the President hasn’t agreed with. We’re grateful the President mentioned medical liability reform, and we hope he’s serious. We need to establish tough liability reform standards, encourage speedy resolution of claims, and deter junk lawsuits that drive up the cost of care. Real reform must do this.

“Let’s also talk about letting families and businesses buy insurance across state lines. I and many other Republicans believe that that will provide real choice and competition to lower the cost of health insurance. Unfortunately, the President disagrees.

“You can read more about all these reforms at healthcare.gop.gov. These are common-sense reforms we can achieve right away – without destroying jobs, exploding the deficit, rationing care, or taking away the freedom American families cherish.

“This Congress can pass meaningful reform soon to reduce some of the fear and anxiety families are feeling in these very difficult times. Working together in a bipartisan way, we can truly lower the cost of health care while improving quality for the American people.

“I’m Dr. Charles Boustany. Thanks for listening.”

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Originally Posted by Beagle

I am attempting to stay on topic and I only used those examples to illustrate my point. I believe your premise on the extremity of these protestors is flawed.

First, I don't believe that the health care protesting is extreme. There's nothing wrong with strident and vocal opposition. People are upset over the direction they see the country headed in.

Second, the so-called extreme protest that included a Hitler-Obama poster was not even a Republican. I was trying to point out that there's always a few extreme fringe protestors that can be found and to single them out and make them center of attention is wrong.

We recently had over 1 million protestors descend on Wash DC last week. You might not be aware of this peaceful event because the mainstream media chose not to cover it. But there were no problems and the protesters even cleaned up after themselves.

Check it out and you'll see the vast majority of these peaceful protestors are middle aged and elderly and hardly can be described as extreme hate mongers.

But I realize this picture of 1 million grass roots average middle-aged, mainstream Americans driving to Wash DC to protest doesn't fit the mold that the news media and administration put forth.

Therefore you hear trumped up charges about the very few fringe elements that carry some poster or elect to carry a legal firearm to an event.

The Obama admin, the Dems, and the news media are starting to realize they have lost this health care debate and they are pulling out all the stops.

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Uh, when and where was this million strong protest? It certainly wasn't in Washington DC recently where the Washington DC Fire Department -- a fire department that knows something about measuring crowd sizes at the mall -- had it figured at 70,000 based on their reliable markers. You want to cite that source of yours for that figure, as well as links for all the health care proposals for its much needed overhaul from Dubya's tenure? His father's? Reagan's? Surely these guys saw that the current system is unsustainable and took an aggressive posture in getting it changed. Yes?

I don’t think insurance companies are evil, but I do think their loyalty, as with all corporations, is with their stockholders. To maximize profits, they minimize costs. This means covering mainly the healthy, not covering pre-existing conditions, dropping the ill from their rosters whenever the opportunity presents itself etc. These practices aren’t evil. They’re just good business. Unfortunately they serve the stockholders better than the clients.

The administration gave no indication that it was opposed to comprehensive tort reform.

I agree the cost of malpractice insurance needs to be reduced. But tort reform won’t solve the problem of high health care costs. Moreover, if tort reform is done carefully it will, as I said above, endanger patients.

It would have been interesting if the Dems had tried to push the swiss system, it would have been great to see what objections the right would have come up with to it.

The real problem here is while the Repubs are owned outright by big corporations, there are enough dem's who have also been bought out that the first thing that happened was the best thing, single payer, was totally taken off the table without there being any discussion of it. It should make your blood run cold that an idea at least 70% of Americans support cannot make any headway.

Regarding the numbers of the size of the protest...

I've heard all sorts of estimates. From a ridiculously low estimate of 70,000 to 2 million.

I had often thought all that one would need to do is to work with aerial views and calculate a real estimate.

Well, it turns out that someone actually did a technical analysis and he believes the number is closer to 1.7 million.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/19743935/T...n?classic_ui=1

I am sure that Moilanen's paper will be discredited by the left, I decided to use a more conservative estimate of 1 million.