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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ben in LA
Back when Bush II was making a case for war, I thought about the fact the the mental/emotional cost to those who gave up that time/life to serve would be great. I think most have missed a fact that this war was very unique in that the public was not asked to sacrifice, as in other extended wars. That means that there is less public empathy for the ones who come home, and this is also true of the vets themselves, finding it difficult empathizing with 'normal life'. What drove this point into my soul, was finding my father's ration cards from WWII. All of society was making sacrifices, not just those on the front. Speaking of which, the tax rate for the top 1% averaged over 90% during those years.
The bottom line is that murder is the ultimate act of lack of empathy. So any mechanism which increases it as a whole over society, will decrease incidents of murder.
I'm attaching a picture, whose comments stated that this taken at the end of a ban on candy.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
robertlouis
Just a sobering reminder that it is now 16 months since this thread was started by somebody brainwashed into thinking that unrestricted gun ownership - and its corollary, unrestricted killing - was somehow under threat from the Obama administration.
I'd offer a sardonic laugh, but it seems inappropriate in the face of the continuing daily slaughter.
The only ones with true unrestricted ownership are criminals. They don't care about laws anyway. UK knows this well.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
95racer
The only ones with true unrestricted ownership are criminals. They don't care about laws anyway. UK knows this well.
Nonsense.
If there are laws restricting ownership of certain kinds of firearms, then it would be stupid, even for a criminal, to walk down the street flaunting that type of firearm. It's stupid of you to think that's not a restriction a criminal needs to respect.
If there are laws restricting sales of certain types of firearms, then a criminal has to be careful when he buys or sells those types. It's stupid to think that's not a restriction.
If there are laws against stupid people possessing a firearm, they would have to be stupid to not to keep their firearm a secret. That's a restriction they might be too stupid to understand. But you should.
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Re: The FAST Approaching Gun Ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
95racer
The only ones with true unrestricted ownership are criminals. They don't care about laws anyway. UK knows this well.
Actually this argument applies equally to all laws I can think of. So why have any laws at all since criminals will always break them, for a temporary short gain?
I still say the real issue is how many people really need guns for protection, vs the risks of owning a gun, for example someone with children. Most children carefully watch the actions of their parents. Odds are they will know how to access their parents weapons. Even me who is now known as a very calm level headed person, went looking for someone with a loaded gun, who owed me $50, when I was 20 years old. In the case of the Mass school shooting what was the real risk to the family of the shooter vs having a mentally unstable teen, who had been bullied? I do understand that some people are in higher risk professions. My father had a grocery store in a low income neighborhood, he actually did use it self defense.
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Re: The FAST Approaching Gun Ban
Having a high risk profession makes ones life more important than someone elses? We all have the right to defend our selves regardless of income level or profession. That was the criteria before shall carry laws were finally made.
My and friends houses while growing up had gun racks complete with guns. Ours were in the basement and I knew where all the ammo was kept. We were taught proper use, handling and maintaining of firearms. I NEVER thought about taking a gun. When I was old enough to hunt or go shooting on my own with friends I always ask permission. Permission was usually granted because Dad knew he could trust me.
I involved my son early with firearms. Starting about five years old he would clean guns with me. I taught him proper use and handling (just like those nasty NRA classes). That took all the curiosity out of it. Progressed to hunter safety, now has a CPL, and attends advance training with me. Now my granddaughter is almost ready to shoot the Red Ryder BB gun that I got him. Once she sees the pink stock version I'll probably have to get one of those.
In my small circle of people that I have met there are two guys who stopped the early stages of some thugs sizing them up. One had already revealed a knife at a ATM and just displaying/ brandishing the gun convinced the punks to retreat. So ya they are used for self defense- A LOT!
Don't go looking for people who owe you money with a gun. That can cause more trouble than it's worth.
Ok, flame away on how bad I am :-)
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Re: The FAST Approaching Gun Ban
Quote:
In my small circle of people that I have met there are two guys who stopped the early stages of some thugs sizing them up.
Yeah, right. Dream on.
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Re: The FAST Approaching Gun Ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
trish
The amusing thing about the anti-gun lobby is that they are trying to take advantage of these Fort Hood shootings to further their agenda on banning civilian gun ownership despite the fact these are military soldiers shooting up bases. The problem here is that a military base is a gun free zone. Soldiers can't have guns on their person unless they are military police. So, like any gun free zone, an armed criminal knows he or she is walking into a crowded building full of unarmed victims who have no means of defense. You would think, at least of all places, that our soldiers would be able to defend themselves from spree shooters. You can thank the Clinton administration for that one.
There is a reason that police departments, gun stores and gun shows don't get shot up by spree killers.
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Re: The FAST Approaching Gun Ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
95racer
Having a high risk profession makes ones life more important than someone elses? We all have the right to defend our selves regardless of income level or profession. That was the criteria before shall carry laws were finally made.
My and friends houses while growing up had gun racks complete with guns. Ours were in the basement and I knew where all the ammo was kept. We were taught proper use, handling and maintaining of firearms. I NEVER thought about taking a gun. When I was old enough to hunt or go shooting on my own with friends I always ask permission. Permission was usually granted because Dad knew he could trust me.
I involved my son early with firearms. Starting about five years old he would clean guns with me. I taught him proper use and handling (just like those nasty NRA classes). That took all the curiosity out of it. Progressed to hunter safety, now has a CPL, and attends advance training with me. Now my granddaughter is almost ready to shoot the Red Ryder BB gun that I got him. Once she sees the pink stock version I'll probably have to get one of those.
In my small circle of people that I have met there are two guys who stopped the early stages of some thugs sizing them up. One had already revealed a knife at a ATM and just displaying/ brandishing the gun convinced the punks to retreat. So ya they are used for self defense- A LOT!
Don't go looking for people who owe you money with a gun. That can cause more trouble than it's worth.
Ok, flame away on how bad I am :-)
YOU.... I like you. :wiggle:
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Re: The FAST Approaching Gun Ban
Thought Experiment - Trying To Understand The Pro-Gun Perspective
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzZ4ms60Jtk
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In the military, in the police, you have to go through quite a bit of training, probably the most important rule is that you do not ever let your personal feelings come into play when you loosen the strap on your holster.
Carrying a gun around everyday hoping to show some punk a thing or two smells like a personal problem to me.
Buy a BEWARE OF DOG sign and a few chew toys thrown around the yard. 15 bucks.
I've met a thousand guys that needed a severe beating. Lots of them use to get beatings from their Dads on a regular basis, so I figure justice knows more than I do.
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Re: The FAST Approaching Gun Ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
buttslinger
Carrying a gun around everyday hoping to show some punk a thing or two smells like a personal problem to me.
If you are hoping to use a gun on someone, that would already make one an irresponsible gun owner. People watch too much Hollywood and think that Rambo'ing a bunch of bad guys will be fun. It's an extremely high adrenaline experience to have to draw a gun on someone. And not the kind of rush one would enjoy from skydiving.
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Re: The FAST Approaching Gun Ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ben
The logic of those people is horrendous.
The guy's first scenario is ridiculous. Such a scenario pertains to absolutely no real world situation. "You're in a room with three people and have three guns, are you safer? Or with no guns at all? Oh and nobody can get in or out." Wtf does this have to do with anything?
Then the woman imitates a concealed carrier responding to bad guys trying to shoot up a place by pretending to draw dual pistols. She then states people can't react properly to a shooting situation, despite dozens of CCTV videos I've watched of random concealed carriers effectively doing that exact thing. Drawing their guns in a panicked and high tension situation, in crowded public places, and firing on and hitting the armed criminals.
Then she calls gun ownership a marketing ploy and a corporate scheme to make money. This is ludicrous. We've had the Second Amendment in our Constitution and a "culture of gun ownership" for 150 years prior to Hollywood, capitalism and marketing's existence.
The entire video is merely a display of the complete and total ignorance people have on the topic of guns, based on opinions they get from CNN, the Democrats, Hollywood action movies and liberal media (all whom themselves, know nothing about firearms).
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Re: The FAST Approaching Gun Ban
Just once did my Uncle Joe from Mississippi meet my Uncle Willie from New Rochelle NY.
My Uncle Willie said he had never heard of George Jones.
I watched my Uncle Joe's world stop for a minute in disbelief.
When WWII broke out, they sent all the Yankees to train down south, and all the Rebs to train up north.
They took advantage of the war to bring an end to the previous Civil War, which was still smoldering in many places down south.
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Re: The FAST Approaching Gun Ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kittyKaiti
The amusing thing about the anti-gun lobby is that they are trying to take advantage of these Fort Hood shootings to further their agenda on banning civilian gun ownership despite the fact these are military soldiers shooting up bases.
I'm professionally acquainted with a number of people active in the "anti-gun lobby," and I've heard literally zero gun-control advocates say anything at all about Ivan Lopez. Perhaps you could be more specific about who is "taking advantage."
I have heard many noted gun-lobby apologists -- John Lott, Allen West, Steve Doocy, etc. -- "taking advantage" of the latest Fort Hood shooting to argue for more guns, for expanding the market for the gun lobby.
So it seems as though what's happening here on earth is precisely the opposite of what you have alleged.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kittyKaiti
The problem here is that a military base is a gun free zone. Soldiers can't have guns on their person unless they are military police. So, like any gun free zone, an armed criminal knows he or she is walking into a crowded building full of unarmed victims who have no means of defense. You would think, at least of all places, that our soldiers would be able to defend themselves from spree shooters. You can thank the Clinton administration for that one.
This is obviously false. For one thing, the second sentence contradicts the first. How is a military base "gun free" if authorized personnel are, in fact, armed? There are many occupational specialties that are authorized to carry on post. Anyone who has actually been on base would observe armed personnel within minutes.
As it happens, I was stationed at Hunter Army Airfield in February 1992 when DoD issued directive 5210.56, which formalized existing practice regarding firearms on post for all service branches. Two things:
• Rank-and-file noticed no change as a result of this directive; base commander had already barred most personnel from carrying on post.
• February 1992 was almost a full year before Bill Clinton took office.
You have a tendency to uncritically parrot gun-lobby propaganda. You accuse your ideological opponents of ignorance, but you're clearly getting all of you information from a single source.
You're certainly not the first person to misrepresent Department of Defense policy regarding firearms on post. Neither are you the first to accuse Bill Clinton of issuing a DoD directive (that you don't fully understand) 11 months before he took office. Heck, the gun lobby's misrepresentation of DoD policy has already been covered in this very thread.
Your response to AsianG’s stalker worries a couple of weeks back was textbook gun industry marketing copy: “The police can’t help you. Buy a gun.” That's the essence of every speech Wayne LaPierre has given in the last five years.
You referred to Gary Kleck’s 1995 paper with no apparent knowledge of the 20 years of research that has occurred since then. You trotted out the very tired “other things are dangerous” argument, while failing to note that the number of people who drown or are stabbed to death is a full order of magnitude smaller than that of those killed by firearms.
I’m especially amused every time one of you gun nuts breathlessly refers to motor vehicle crash deaths. The raw number of Americans killed in motor vehicle crashes has been reduced by almost 1/2 since its peak in 1972. In terms of fatalities per vehicle miles traveled, the 2013 rate is less than 1/10 what it was in the 1940s. And how, you might ask, did the U.S. achieve such a precipitous reduction in motor vehicle crash deaths? Why, through some of the same policies that apologists for the gun lobby now claim are a dire threat to liberty: mandatory licensing, universal registration, mandatory safety devices, strict liability, etc.
It’s mysterious to me why self-styled libertarians, who are usually so keenly attuned to the influence of money on policy, are so credulous when it comes to the gun industry. Gun manufacturers made about $30 billion from U.S. consumers last year. They make that money by convincing you that their products are essential, by lobbying legislators to head off any kind of regulation of the products that they sell you, and by spreading misinformation about the empirical research that clearly shows that their products are dangerous.
It’s really not very complicated. You seem like a smart and curious person. You owe it to yourself to find some better data, think more critically, and not rely exclusively on people trying to sell you something.
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Re: The FAST Approaching Gun Ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
trish
Yeah, right. Dream on.
Dream on? More like a nightmare.
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Re: The FAST Approaching Gun Ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
95racer
My and friends houses while growing up had gun racks complete with guns. Ours were in the basement and I knew where all the ammo was kept.
I involved my son early with firearms. Starting about five years old he would clean guns with me. I taught him proper use and handling (just like those nasty NRA classes). That took all the curiosity out of it. Progressed to hunter safety, now has a CPL, and attends advance training with me. Now my granddaughter is almost ready to shoot the Red Ryder BB gun that I got him. Once she sees the pink stock version I'll probably have to get one of those.
Passed on for three generations? When will one of your lineal descendants get a reprieve from this ignorance?
Of course I don't understand this sentence but maybe it explains your interest in this site:
"Now my granddaughter is almost ready to shoot the Red Ryder BB gun that I got him"
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Re: The FAST Approaching Gun Ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
broncofan
Passed on for three generations? When will one of your lineal descendants get a reprieve from this ignorance?
Of course I don't understand this sentence but maybe it explains your interest in this site:
"Now my granddaughter is almost ready to shoot the Red Ryder BB gun that I got him"
Him, meaning my son. Pretty simple to understand.
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Re: The FAST Approaching Gun Ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
95racer
I involved my son early with firearms. Starting about five years old he would clean guns with me. I taught him proper use and handling (just like those nasty NRA classes). That took all the curiosity out of it. Progressed to hunter safety, now has a CPL, and attends advance training with me. Now my granddaughter is almost ready to shoot the Red Ryder BB gun that I got him. Once she sees the pink stock version I'll probably have to get one of those.
Would you say that the instruction and training that you gave to your son is superior to that of the US Marine Corps School of Infantry? Does the NRA offer more rigorous classes than the Corps' Infantry Training Battalion? Because this Marine just accidentally shot his fellow sentry:
http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/arti...-officials-say
And if U.S. military bases are "gun-free zones," why were the sentries at Lejeune armed?
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Re: The FAST Approaching Gun Ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kittyKaiti
There is a reason that police departments, gun stores and gun shows don't get shot up by spree killers.
Not to belabor the point, but on Monday, Daniel Yealu walked into the LAPD's Wilshire station and opened fire with his Glock pistol:
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/l...#axzz2yPvZwEdZ
It was actually the second time in less than a year that someone shot up the Wilshire Station. They never caught the guy from last year.
And this former police officer walked into Frank's Gun and Taxidermy Shop in Pennsylvania, stole a weapon from a display case, and shot Frank to death: http://www.wtae.com/news/local/coron...-shop/23715272
You may be right that there have been no intentional shootings at gun shows in recent memory, but hardly a week goes by without someone being accidentally shot at one. You get an auditorium full of firearms and firearm enthusiasts, you're pretty much asking for an accidental discharge.
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Re: The FAST Approaching Gun Ban
Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak just because a baby can't chew it.”
― Mark Twain
Obamacare, Abortion, Internet porn, Freedom to be as gay as you wanna be; these are Democratic experiments.
Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure.
The facts hate guns, cops hate guns, every other country in the world hates guns.
But guns are so twisted and entangled with Freedom, I say pick your battles.
Obamacare and Gay rights, gays in the military, gays getting married, these are huge.
As a people ...it is real easy to find something wrong with somebody else, but harder to find something wrong with your self. Don't go into Dino's home and take his gun. It's too similar to going into his house and taking his weed, his porn, his tranny whore girlfriends.
Freedom is fucking Dangerous. Not mine, yours.
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Re: The FAST Approaching Gun Ban
I adore maxims.
Curtailment and limitation is having to carry a gun where ever you go, while looking over your shoulder. In the anarchic days of our western expansion we experienced that.
Freedom is being able to walk unencumbered and without worry into every corner of the nation. We fairly recently were pretty much achieving that.
Paranoia is a virus. The NRA has weaponized it, for profit.
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Re: The FAST Approaching Gun Ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
trish
I love that what he actually said was wiser and more eloquent.
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Re: The FAST Approaching Gun Ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
buttslinger
Don't go into Dino's home and take his gun. It's too similar to going into his house and taking his weed, his porn, his tranny whore girlfriends.
Are you saying by stealing my guns you'll start scratching and thinking bugs are crawling on you?
http://www.kitsune.addr.com/Firearms...s/SIG_P220.jpghttp://i614.photobucket.com/albums/t...ps4ad4cbec.gif
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Re: The FAST Approaching Gun Ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
thombergeron
Not to belabor the point, but on Monday, Daniel Yealu walked into the LAPD's Wilshire station and opened fire with his Glock pistol:
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/l...#axzz2yPvZwEdZ
It was actually the second time in less than a year that someone shot up the Wilshire Station. They never caught the guy from last year.
And this former police officer walked into Frank's Gun and Taxidermy Shop in Pennsylvania, stole a weapon from a display case, and shot Frank to death:
http://www.wtae.com/news/local/coron...-shop/23715272
You may be right that there have been no intentional shootings at gun shows in recent memory, but hardly a week goes by without someone being accidentally shot at one. You get an auditorium full of firearms and firearm enthusiasts, you're pretty much asking for an accidental discharge.
LOL. Have you ever even been to a gun show? "Hardly a week goes by without someone being accidentally shot at one". I went to gun shows in Las Vegas. If you choose to bring your firearm into the show, you must check your guns at the desk, where they inspect to see if they are unloaded and then use a ziptie to keep the slide and magazine well locked up so you can't load it while walking around. There are no loaded guns in shows. Display guns are unloaded, chambers are locked or blocked with zipties or other devices, have no magazines nearby and bullets are sold by separate vendors. It's not like it's a fairground full of people waltzing about with loaded assault rifles and pistols.
That police officer was an active duty cop when the murder happened. So much for "only cops should have guns." As for the guy who shot a cop in a police station the other day... he was met by a hail of return gunfire. You can't simply walk into a building with armed people and go on a spree. You'll be put down fast by the good guys with guns. Not so much for every school, theater, church and mall shooting spree in the past few years. No one shot back. Not even armed security or a school resource officer were available... Just unarmed victims everywhere.
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Re: The FAST Approaching Gun Ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
trish
I adore maxims.
Curtailment and limitation is having to carry a gun where ever you go, while looking over your shoulder. In the anarchic days of our western expansion we experienced that.
Freedom is being able to walk unencumbered and without worry into every corner of the nation. We fairly recently were pretty much achieving that.
Paranoia is a virus. The NRA has weaponized it, for profit.
It's more the opposite.
Curtailment and limitation is having to watch where you go and worry who might attack you, knowing you are unable to defend yourself from rapists or muggers, because cops are too heavy to carry around on your hip and bodyguards cost too much to hire.
Freedom is being able to walk unencumbered and without worry into every corner of the nation, because when you are well armed and well prepared, everywhere you go is a safe zone.
Unfortunately, there are many areas across this country, that people are forced to live in, because of expenses or other conditions, where crime rates are high and merely walking out your door exposes you to gangs, muggers, sex predators and drugs. In some places, being locked inside your own home is no longer safe, where criminals or even hordes of them, are willing and able to smash down your door to take your things, even your life. And even more unfortunate, is that you can have police to help you... in about 15 to 20 minutes.
I can spend 3 minutes on the phone with 911, giving them my address and telling them what's happening and wait another 15 to 20 minutes for them to arrive while intruders are breaking down my door.. or I can draw, aim and fire in less than one second, forcing the intruders to flee.
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Re: The FAST Approaching Gun Ban
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Re: The FAST Approaching Gun Ban
Trish: I'm going to get you for making fun of me
D V: Am I the only person on here who can't get GIFs to work?
KIT: I lived in a bad neighborhood and gangs DID break into my house.
They were like 9 and 10 years old.
Twice my place was robbed, teenagers.
Now then.....
1935 Social Security,
1964 Civil Rights,
2010 Affordable Care Act
Without 60 Senators and a majority in the House Obama would only give the NRA an Erection of Steel if he tried anything related to gun control. Yahoos who had no clue where the schoolhouse was would find it if that's where the voting was taking place this November. The battle for the USA takes place one kid at a time. In school.
There is no security, only opportunity-Gen MacArthur.
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Re: The FAST Approaching Gun Ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
trish
Armed is encumbered.
Nope.
Unarmed, I could not enter many areas without constant fear of harassment or assault. I used to have a gender therapist who had his office in a ghetto area of a nearby town. I had to park my car on the street and if my appointment was in the evening, I had to walk on that street in the dark. It's fucking scary when you are alone, unarmed and it's night out, in the ghetto, with groups of assholes walking around or loitering about. The area is the worst in my entire county. I stopped going to that therapist because of the shitty neighborhood.
Knowing I have a means to defend myself from a group of attackers increases my freedom. The burden of fear and paranoia that I could be attacked by a crackhead or mugger was gone when I had a gun on my hip. I had the ability to protect myself anywhere I went and didn't have to worry or even think about the possibility of someone attacking.
Like I've posted about other experiences in high crime areas, it is liberating when you can walk around anywhere, even in ghetto, crime ridden areas, because I have immediate defense at my side.
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Re: The FAST Approaching Gun Ban
Armed is encumbered, by the piece, by weight of one's paranoia and by the incessant need to justify oneself to others for carrying it.
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Re: The FAST Approaching Gun Ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
buttslinger
D V: Am I the only person on here who can't get GIFs to work?
Just like posting regular pics except you can't upload them from your hard drive.
http://lastangryfan.com/wp-content/u...ose-picker.gif http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2321941/boogergif.gif
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Re: The FAST Approaching Gun Ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kittyKaiti
LOL. Have you ever even been to a gun show? "Hardly a week goes by without someone being accidentally shot at one". I went to gun shows in Las Vegas. If you choose to bring your firearm into the show, you must check your guns at the desk, where they inspect to see if they are unloaded and then use a ziptie to keep the slide and magazine well locked up so you can't load it while walking around. There are no loaded guns in shows. Display guns are unloaded, chambers are locked or blocked with zipties or other devices, have no magazines nearby and bullets are sold by separate vendors. It's not like it's a fairground full of people waltzing about with loaded assault rifles and pistols.
Maybe I overestimated you; you're not acting very smart nor curious.
5 injured after firearms go off at Ohio, N.C., Indiana gun shows
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kittyKaiti
That police officer was an active duty cop when the murder happened. So much for "only cops should have guns." As for the guy who shot a cop in a police station the other day... he was met by a hail of return gunfire. You can't simply walk into a building with armed people and go on a spree. You'll be put down fast by the good guys with guns. Not so much for every school, theater, church and mall shooting spree in the past few years. No one shot back. Not even armed security or a school resource officer were available... Just unarmed victims everywhere.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kittyKaiti
There is a reason that police departments, gun stores and gun shows don't get shot up by spree killers.
Plainly, police departments and gun stores do get shot up. The “gun free zone” talking point is a marketing strategy developed by the firearms industry for the purpose of expanding the market for firearms.
Similarly:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kittyKaiti
Unfortunately, there are many areas across this country, that people are forced to live in, because of expenses or other conditions, where crime rates are high and merely walking out your door exposes you to gangs, muggers, sex predators and drugs. In some places, being locked inside your own home is no longer safe, where criminals or even hordes of them, are willing and able to smash down your door to take your things, even your life. And even more unfortunate, is that you can have police to help you... in about 15 to 20 minutes.
“And the fact is, that wouldn't even begin to address the much larger and more lethal criminal class: Killers, robbers, rapists and drug gang members who have spread like cancer in every community in this country. And the fact is, that wouldn't even begin to address the much larger and more lethal criminal class: Killers, robbers, rapists and drug gang members who have spread like cancer in every community in this country.”
Wayne LaPierre, President, NRA, December 21, 2012
According to the U.S. Department of Justice, violent crime has been declining steadily for 20 years; the violent crime rate in 2012 was approximately one-quarter the rate in 1993.(PDF)
I travel a lot for my work, but when I’m home, I live I the inner city. We don’t keep firearms here because we don’t need the added risk. We do have a big-ass dog, and we know everybody in the neighborhood so nobody fucks with us. But not everybody here is so lucky, and two young men who lived across the street from me were both killed over some stupid neighborhood beef. One was 19, and then two years later his brother was killed. He was 25. Over nothing, just because it was easy enough for some pissed off guys to get a gun.
We have made it incredibly easy in this country for crazy people, criminals, and idiots to gather up as many firearms as they want. Both you and the other gun nut of the week on here offer that same old gun nut argument: “I’m a responsible gun owner. I know what I’m doing. I’m careful. I would never handle my weapons irresponsibly.” So, fine. You’re the one gun owner who’s immune to momentary distraction. But current U.S. gun policy makes virtually no distinction between responsible gun owners and irresponsible gun owners.
Look, no one is coming to take your stupid fucking gun away. Grow up. But a responsible society makes some effort to keep dangerous weapons out of the hands of crazy people, criminals, and idiots. Guns are dangerous. That’s the fucking point of guns. Mandatory licensing, universal registration, mandatory safety devices, and strict liability. If you’re actually a responsible gun owner, why would you be opposed to those things?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
trish
Armed is encumbered, by the piece, by weight of one's paranoia and by the incessant need to justify oneself to others for carrying it.
Well put.
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Re: The FAST Approaching Gun Ban
The media reports that twenty students were seriously injured in a Pittsburgh school when a student went on a rampage with a knife. All are expected to survive.
Fool! He should have used a gun in the fine old American tradition. They'd all be dead.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...l-9248774.html
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Re: The FAST Approaching Gun Ban
If the other students had had guns then they would have shot the guy. Just stating what the pro-gunners will say :(
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Prospero
The media reports that twenty students were seriously injured in a Pittsburgh school when a student went on a rampage with a knife. All are expected to survive.
Fool! He should have used a gun in the fine old American tradition. They'd all be dead.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...l-9248774.html
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Re: The FAST Approaching Gun Ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
thombergeron
Maybe I overestimated you; you're not acting very smart nor curious.
5 injured after firearms go off at Ohio, N.C., Indiana gun shows
Plainly, police departments and gun stores do get shot up. The “gun free zone” talking point is a marketing strategy developed by the firearms industry for the purpose of expanding the market for firearms.
Similarly:
“And the fact is, that wouldn't even begin to address the much larger and more lethal criminal class: Killers, robbers, rapists and drug gang members who have spread like cancer in every community in this country.”
Wayne LaPierre, President, NRA, December 21, 2012
According to the U.S. Department of Justice, violent crime has been declining steadily for 20 years;
the violent crime rate in 2012 was approximately one-quarter the rate in 1993.(PDF)
I travel a lot for my work, but when I’m home, I live I the inner city. We don’t keep firearms here because we don’t need the added risk. We do have a big-ass dog, and we know everybody in the neighborhood so nobody fucks with us. But not everybody here is so lucky, and two young men who lived across the street from me were both killed over some stupid neighborhood beef. One was 19, and then two years later his brother was killed. He was 25. Over nothing, just because it was easy enough for some pissed off guys to get a gun.
We have made it incredibly easy in this country for crazy people, criminals, and idiots to gather up as many firearms as they want. Both you and the other gun nut of the week on here offer that same old gun nut argument: “I’m a responsible gun owner. I know what I’m doing. I’m careful. I would never handle my weapons irresponsibly.” So, fine. You’re the one gun owner who’s immune to momentary distraction. But current U.S. gun policy makes virtually no distinction between responsible gun owners and irresponsible gun owners.
Look, no one is coming to take your stupid fucking gun away. Grow up. But a responsible society makes some effort to keep dangerous weapons out of the hands of crazy people, criminals, and idiots. Guns are dangerous. That’s the fucking point of guns. Mandatory licensing, universal registration, mandatory safety devices, and strict liability. If you’re actually a responsible gun owner, why would you be opposed to those things?
I'm aware the crime rate has slowly been decreasing overall nationally. That doesn't negate the fact that there are many areas which crime rates are very high.
Tell me how any of these things will do anything to stop gun deaths.
Mandatory licensing: You own a gun... and a piece of paper that says you can own it. Effect: None. Person still owns a gun.
Universal registration: You own a gun... and the government knows you do. Effect: None. Person still owns a gun.
Mandatory safety devices: You mean trigger locks, magazine well locks, gun safes and lock boxes? These things exist. They can also be removed with a key. Effect: None. Person still owns a gun. Gun is stored safely when not in use. Pretty standard among all legal gun owners.
Strict liability: As in criminal charges? You mean "assault with a deadly weapon", "murder", "criminal discharge of a firearm", "menacing with a firearm", "aggravated battery"? These strict laws exist. Do you mean insurance for people who own guns? There are insurance providers that exist for gun ownership, although not mandatory. They cover property damage, bodily injury, court fees, bail and medical costs. Effect: None. Person still has a gun. Insurance will cover bills and costs. Criminal codes already exist in law.
You say it's easy for criminals and crazy people to just go out and buy tons of guns. That is false. Every state and every and each gun sale, requires a background check. This includes criminal and mental health records. There are loopholes unfortunately that can be closed up, such as gun show purchases and private sales, depending on the state. Those loopholes need to be added into background check laws. However, this is not going to shutdown black-market and underground weapons sales commonly used by gangs and felons to acquire illegal weapons. Criminals will always find ways to acquire guns, regardless if all the legal gun stores are shutdown and prohibited. And for those who want to try and throw in "assault weapon bans", these are even more absurd laws that have no effect on firearm lethality. Banning external aesthetic tactical accessories has no impact on performance or lethality of a firearm and does not change its ease of use.
The gun free zone issue is a marketing ploy? I thought it was more about getting schools to have adequate protection from armed criminals. I know that my high school I attended had an armed school resource officer. Every school should have an armed police officer or security officer. We're shitting ourselves over terrorists trying to underwear bomb our airplanes so much, we're willing to let the TSA molest our dicks and vaginas, yet we can't put an armed cop in every school?
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Re: The FAST Approaching Gun Ban
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Originally Posted by
Prospero
We are only moments away from knife prohibition like you silly British people.
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Re: The FAST Approaching Gun Ban
Silly British? Taking into account the difference in size of of our populations the number of annual gun deaths here is tiny compared with the US....
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Re: The FAST Approaching Gun Ban
The problem with these serious debates is you have to declare in the ground rules whether this is to debated on a third grade level, a high school level, college level, Presidential level.
I have no evidence that Obama is here, but that means the people with 2 Masters Degrees will win every time, even if the high school graduate doesn't realize it.
On the Presidential level, you have to weigh out gun control against the possibility of Nuclear war with Iran, 4 dirty bombs exploded simultaneously on the East Coast, Putin, China, the elections, Snowdens, infrastructure, debt, drugs, prisons, homelessness, poverty, along with Pesidential approval ratings!!!
Kaitikins, why did no one ask what your therapist thought of you bringing a concealed weapon in your purse? My psychiatrist/neurologist had like 12 years of med school. His first day with me he asked me to recite all the Presidents backwards. I made it to FDR. One time I told him one of his crazy old lady patients almost plowed me down with her car in the parking lot. He said he parked way in the back.
Even in the Gun Happy US, you can avoid gun violence totally by avoiding high crime areas. Get a nice job and move to the suburbs. Your most dangerous visitor will be a Jehovah's Witness.
Thank God you don't live in Mexico, where you can get killed so gringos can get high. I got in trouble when I went looking for action downtown, pussy on every streetcorner. I could buy a machine gun or a diamond ring for 300 bucks. I got arrested once, I got the clap once. Living la vida loca.
All the gifs I find are too big.
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Re: The FAST Approaching Gun Ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
buttslinger
Kaitikins, why did no one ask what your therapist thought of you bringing a concealed weapon in your purse? My psychiatrist/neurologist had like 12 years of med school. His first day with me he asked me to recite all the Presidents backwards. I made it to FDR. One time I told him one of his crazy old lady patients almost plowed me down with her car in the parking lot. He said he parked way in the back.
Even in the Gun Happy US, you can avoid gun violence totally by avoiding high crime areas. Get a nice job and move to the suburbs. Your most dangerous visitor will be a Jehovah's Witness.
A few things to clarify: At the time I was seeing that therapist, I did not own any guns. I was 19. Secondly, I would never carry a firearm in a purse, and that is because of a few reasons.
#1: Carrying a loaded firearm in a purse, crowded together with dozens of objects, can easily accidentally discharge if an object (like a pen) was stuck in the trigger guard and pressed on the trigger. That would be stupid.
#2: I always carried in a locking holster. The same kind of SERPA holsters commonly used by many law enforcement officers. The holsters secure the trigger guard area from accidental discharge and keep the gun locked in so other people cannot take it from you. The release button is conveniently placed so the wearer has easy access to release the gun, but another person could not release it without a struggle, if they even know how to use a SERPA holster.
#3: Carrying a gun in a purse, even if you had a trigger guard cover, which are available to shield the trigger from accidental pulling, is a bad idea. If you need to pull a gun to defend yourself, having to spend time digging through your designer bag to find your gun is wasting valuable seconds you need to effectively ward off an attack.
"Get a nice job and move to the suburbs". Unfortunately, for many people, it is not that easy.
