17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?

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You mean ...

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I mean the witness was examined in front of the victim's mother. This is not investigative procedure. There was no real investigation until the public demanded it.

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You seem to be forgetting the fact that you helped enabled that.

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Yeah, 'cause all of Florida follows my posts here on HungAngels. :roll:

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Originally Posted by Stavros

But is it not the whole point of the law in Florida that the 'stand your ground' element of its law does in fact give someone the legal privilege to take a life?

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I understand the stand your ground portion as saying that you do not have to retreat before defending yourself.

But it doesn't obviate the need for the force you use to be proportional to the force used by your attacker. So you can use deadly force but only if it is necessary to subdue your attacker.

If someone is attacking you with deadly force, then you do not have to run away before responding in kind. But if someone is attacking you with something less than that, can you immediately escalate the degree of violence to avoid having to retreat?

I didn't think so but I am not sure.

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Originally Posted by bobvela

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We are on the same page mostly, but you just seem saturated with glee over the mistakes of the prosecution.

The prosecution should have responded to the initial mistakes and outrage with diligence and not made a charge that is difficult to sustain.

I am not familiar with Florida homicide statutes. For instance, some states have different degrees of manslaughter, with negligent homicide being a less culpable form. Voluntary manslaughter may also have been a winnable charge.

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Originally Posted by bobvela

Bingo... which is why the blame goes back to those who demanded Zimmerman's head, this over charging, and now will force an even worse outcome.

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This is the part I disagree with. I don't see that following really. The prosecutor is responsible for the decisions she makes, though she doesn't make them in a vacuum.

Just looking at the overall trajectory of events is enough to make me want to see him locked up. I was outraged, and there was a lot of collective outrage. But the prosecutors legal mistakes are her own, however zealous she thinks she should be and however she misinterprets the public's will.

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Originally Posted by bobvela

Liar.

Based on what I know... negligent homicide would be a charge that would be in line with the facts of the case. The very charge the police wanted to bring but that the prosecutor ignored and bumped up several levels.




Yes... there was zero investigation after the fact and before the public outcry.



Bingo... which is why the blame goes back to those who demanded Zimmerman's head, this over charging, and now will force an even worse outcome.

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I wouldn't be so quick to write off the case. I don't see any people talking about the physical evidence of the case. Seems to me, one can draw some conclusions from the spot of the death. Zimmerman claims he was returning to his car. It doesn't seem that hard to prove that he followed TM. From the photos I saw of the crime scene, it looked like it was a considerable distance from his vehicle. He was armed. He had history of making false allegations. People made a big deal of Martin's girlfriend, lying about why she didn't go to the funeral, but Zimmerman has already lied to the court under oath, saying he had no money, when he had collected over $100,000. I think the prosecution is just setting the stage, to directly address Zimmerman's actions and history, to end their turn. From my understanding Zimmerman's story details have changed. So I expect those to be bought to the forefront. and on last thing; I dont know Florida law, but in many states, people can be re-charged, with lower degree codes, for the same crime. If this is the case, the state would be able to use the same evidence for the lower charge.

http://www.policymic.com/articles/68...u-need-to-know

I found this and a couple of other articles. I am not knowledgeable about criminal procedure but apparently juries can be instructed on lesser included charges. As a result, Zimmerman could be convicted of manslaughter even though he is being charged with second degree murder.

But if he is acquitted of the charges brought against him the prosecution cannot bring lesser included charges such as manslaughter in a second trial without violating double jeopardy.

If this article is reliable, then our speculation about overcharging is moot, because the jury can convict of manslaughter.

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Originally Posted by yodajazz

; I dont know Florida law, but in many states, people can be re-charged, with lower degree codes, for the same crime. If this is the case, the state would be able to use the same evidence for the lower charge.

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I'm not sure what you mean by that.
Usually before deliberations the judge will have a charge conference,in which it will be discussed what lesser included, if any, charges the jury will be instructed and allowed to deliberate on. I'm not sure on Florida's law on this ...but that is the general procedure.
...but
if a defendant is found "Not Guilty" after trial...you can't retry an individual on a lesser count.

..oops..sorry Bronco...didn't see your post.

The only way I can think of for a person to be retried on a lesser included would be if the jury found him "Not Guilty" of the top count..but were unable to come to a decision on a lesser included after lengthy deliberations and receiving the "Allen Charge".....but I'm not a lawyer.

sorry to post so much in a row. I was unsure about whether or not a judge has to charge the lesser included in the state of florida..especially if neither party want this.
This article by an attorney clears up a lot of questions...:
http://www.jlellis.net/blog/zimmerma...uded-offenses/