Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
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Originally Posted by
yodajazz
The prosecution does need to prove a "depraved state of mind" in its case.
Exactly... and the way this case is going, they have zero shot of that.
to quote me last year:
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Originally Posted by
bobvela
Zimmerman will walk... mark my words... he was over charged and will walk for the same reason that Casey Anthony did... the prosecution will not be able to prove their case to the degree charged.
Now at trial we see it's not just a matter of having over charged him... but because they have a very weak case in general.
Witness after witness for the state have done more to support the defenses claim of lawful self-defense than even hint at a "depraved state of mind".
Even the state's star witness has admitted on the stand to giving false statements to investigators (in addition to many other false statements related to the case).
Quote:
Originally Posted by
yodajazz
Lastly, I have never seen any maps showing where Zimmerman's vehicle was. I think that the prosecution will able to establish that he was pursuing Martin. I still believe that it was reasonable that Martin felt fear in being followed at night, especially by someone of a different race.
You can find some aerial shots of there area here & here... as well as some analysis that suggests that Zimmerman could not have 'chased down' Martin... and that in all likelihood, Martin doubled back.
I wonder when Zimmerman is acquitted... if those who were calling for his head will acknowledge they were wrong... and take responsibility for the violence that will almost certainly happen.
Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
At trial's end I will refrain from second guessing the conclusions of the jury. My main complaint is that Zimmerman would never had gone to trial had there not been a public outcry. Both Martin and Zimmerman deserve due process. That process is now ongoing, no thanks to the Florida enforcement community.
Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bobvela
Exactly... and the way this case is going, they have zero shot of that.
to quote me last year:
Now at trial we see it's not just a matter of having over charged him... but because they have a very weak case in general.
Witness after witness for the state have done more to support the defenses claim of lawful self-defense than even hint at a "depraved state of mind".
Even the state's star witness has admitted on the stand to giving false statements to investigators (in addition to many other false statements related to the case).
You can find some aerial shots of there area
here &
here... as well as some analysis that suggests that Zimmerman could not have 'chased down' Martin... and that in all likelihood, Martin doubled back.
I wonder when Zimmerman is acquitted... if those who were calling for his head will acknowledge they were wrong... and take responsibility for the violence that will almost certainly happen.
The media and the 'analysts' have been doing a terrible job of reporting some significant things that have been happening in the court room, and their 'opinions' contrast dramatically with what the people watching the trial think. Many people, around half of them, think that Trayvon's female friend's testimony was damaging to the prosecution and helpful to the defense. However, the 'analysts' all seemed to think she was wonderful.
It's not accurate reporting. They seem to be raising the expectations of those who may expect a conviction. When the prosecution has a bad day, the media should let the public know that the prosecution had a bad day. As simple as that. They shouldn't pretend the prosecution had a good day.
They all ignored the exchange where Trayvon's lady friend admitted that she didn't care enough to make sure that what she said during the interview with Benjamin Crump, the Martin family attorney was accurate or not.
My jaw dropped when I heard her say that. Trayvon's family deserved better from her. But I didn't see that clip on the news.
Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
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Originally Posted by
trish
My main complaint is that Zimmerman would never had gone to trial had there not been a public outcry.
And yet the lead investigator was pushing for negligent homicide charges (a far easier bar to meet given the evidence)... and yet the public outcry gave prosecutor Angela Corey and excuse to get involved, bump up the charges and try to raise her political capitol.
How does it feel to be used?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
trish
Both Martin and Zimmerman deserve due process. That process is now ongoing, no thanks to the Florida enforcement community.
Due process requires a trial? You must not believe in prosecutorial discretion.
This is not due process... this is poor attempt at a legal lynching. Due process was prevented by the public outcry and a politician who saw a way they could gain. Instead false hope has been created and the violence and outrage that happens upon acquittal will be on the heads of those who demanded this.
Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Queens Guy
It's not accurate reporting. They seem to be raising the expectations of those who may expect a conviction. When the prosecution has a bad day, the media should let the public know that the prosecution had a bad day. As simple as that. They shouldn't pretend the prosecution had a good day.
Why would the same media that was pushing for the head of Zimmerman back off now? The current narrative from the media will play well into a later narrative of the "racist jury of mostly whites that acquitted Zimmerman" while removing blame from the state which never should have brought murder-2 charges in this case.
Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
The case is about negligent homicide and not homicide. There is a difference and this is the reason zimmerson should not be found not guilty.
Zimmerman's actions willfully created a situation
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012...rvers-say?lite
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...oAT_story.html
the charge is not 2nd degree homicide .
the charge is Zimmerman recklessly endangered Trayvon's life (Criminally Negligent Homicide ).
He WILLFULLY CREATED the circumstances where the gun was used.
911 call records george Zimmermans's desire to DETAIN Travyon martin.
ZIMMMERMAN STATED "they always get away" argument for racial profiling
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012...rvers-say?lite
Criminally Negligent Homicide
(or "depraved indifference") in the language of the indictment for second degree murder.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...oAT_story.html
What this means is that the state is not attempting to prove that Zimmerman willfully murdered Trayvon Martin.
Instead they will set out to prove that zimmerman by going after Trayvon with a loaded gun:
-- even after he had been reminded not to by the 911 operator
-- despite the proper protocals for any neighborhood watch program
-- despite zimmerman's own training in law enforcement
Zimmerman recklessly endangered Trayvon's life.
He WILLFULLY CREATED the circumstances where the gun was used.
In the absence of any eyewitness who had a clear view of the start of the fight,
or the firing of the gun.
Florida authorities wisely avoided the pitfalls of attempting to prove that Zimmerman willfully shot Trayvon in a situation where he had other options.
If the Jury believes that Zimmerman's actions willfully created a situation where he might well use his gun...
then he's guilty under the law.
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Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bobvela
And yet the lead investigator was pushing for negligent homicide charges (a far easier bar to meet given the evidence)... and yet the public outcry gave prosecutor Angela Corey and excuse to get involved, bump up the charges and try to raise her political capitol.
How does it feel to be used?
Due process requires a trial? You must not believe in prosecutorial discretion.
This is not due process... this is poor attempt at a legal lynching. Due process was prevented by the public outcry and a politician who saw a way they could gain. Instead false hope has been created and the violence and outrage that happens upon acquittal will be on the heads of those who demanded this.
There was national outcry over the fact that there was not a trial, when there were in fact many questions involving this case. This trial is the due process, many people were asking for. Due process is not being prevented. Having a public trial is a form of due process, the last time I looked.
Seems to me like you are seeking a return to earlier times, when Whites would kill Black with impunity; lynchings, tar and feathers, bombs, and death by dragging. Whites have burned down Black people's entire towns, without there being prosecutions. We are human beings just like you are, in case it is not obvious to you. HA mods took down my post with a picture from an actual lynching. It was a picture of a large group of White men standing over a charred Black body. A few of the men even managed a smile. I think they also removed my picture of separate White and Black water fountains.
Apparently reality is too deep for some people to see.
So I'm going to post another picture. Its the church window where four Black girls, age 11-14 were killed by a bomb, planted by White separatists. Yeah, due process. It took 38 years for someone to be convicted of this crime.
Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
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And yet the lead investigator was pushing for negligent homicide charges...
The fact that there was an investigation at all is due to the public demanding there be one. Zimmerman was taken to the station, cursorily questioned and released. Many witnesses (including some who made the 911 calls, and others who lived nearby) weren't questioned until it became evident that there would have to be a real investigation. One early witness was interviewed in the presence of Trevon's mother. I'm not sure, is that considered good police procedure these days.
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How does it feel to be used?
Your asking a transgender, African/Asian American how it feels to be used? So a prosecutor has taken political advantage of the public relations mess created by the police. What's new? Good for her. It time the Florida police clean up their act. But not good for justice, I agree. The charge should be commensurate with what the prosecutor feels she can prove given the evidence of the investigation. Not being a prosecutor or privy to the facts of the much belated investigation I won't pass judgement on whether murder-2 charges were justified. I leave it to (what were your words...oh yes) prosecutorial discretion.
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Due process requires a trial?
Your words, not mine. I said both Martin and Zimmerman deserve due process. Martin was invited into the neighborhood. He had no weapon other than a box of skittles. Zimmerman was not invited. He was a self-proclaimed vigilante with a concealed weapon stalking the neighborhood for criminals. In fact the police kinda unvited him. Zimmerman pursues and confronts Martin for being "suspicious." A tussle ensues and Martin dies by Zimmerman's weapon. That all we or the police knew. So what did they do? They picked up Zimmerman, questioned him briefly and released him. The public thought the case deserved more scrutiny than it seemed the police were willing to give it. It seemed to the public that the police were hoping the outcry would quickly die away and the case would just go away. Is they any evidence to the contrary? Zimmerman was being tried and fried in the media. Due process is conducting a proper investigation and if the results warrant it, giving him a trial. Something, unfortunately, that wasn't going to happen without the media noise forcing Florida's hand. Due process is something Martin never got.
Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bobvela
to quote me last year:
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobvela
Originally Posted by bobvela View Post
Zimmerman will walk... mark my words... he was over charged and will walk for the same reason that Casey Anthony did... the prosecution will not be able to prove their case to the degree charged.
bobvela quoting bobvela... how novel. I'm guessing bobvela has masturbated over that stunt a couple of times. Move along dimestore prosecutor, move along.
Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
For Bobvela, it is a failure of the system that someone is being tried for shooting an unarmed black teenager. The political pressure is based on the fact that so frequently prosecutors allow such events to happen without taking the necessary steps to determine whether they should pursue the case. The only people who should apologize are those who failed to investigate the circumstances of Martin's death and immediately released Zimmerman from custody.
I said months ago that I thought pursuing 2nd degree murder may be a bad idea because it would be tough to demonstrate Zimmerman had formulated the requisite intent to get a conviction. I think it is possible that Zimmerman is guilty of second degree murder but showing purpose or knowledge intent is difficult. "Depraved heart murder" usually requires that someone act so recklessly that an innocent's death is an obvious result. For instance, firing a gun into a playground for kicks and finding out that you unintentionally killed a child.
Here, since it is difficult to establish exactly what happened, it might be easier to show that Zimmerman did not have a legal privilege to take someone's life. That his self-defense was "imperfect", and that he committed reckless or negligent homicide.
