My Little Pony and a young Flammer

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Originally Posted by trish

Pretty close to my initial reaction. Great picture btw. I like the pink pony.

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Originally Posted by Odelay

When you think about it, this argument is very similar to the one where women who dress seductively are just begging to be raped. Those women should have known better, and what the hell were their parents thinking?

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My argument with the kid is about time and place. Whether life is fair or not is another discussion. That being said I think it was parental malpractice to allow the young boy to go to school with a "My Little Pony" backpack.

It is unfair to the kid, but both Mom and son should have known no good would come of such a backpack, and were hence dumbasses for allowing the kid to go to school like this. I think I also pointed out in the original post the Mom and son must not be too bright to do this.

I'm sure by the age of 8 or 9, I would have been smart enough (even if I had been a My Little Pony fan) not to wear the paraphernalia to school. If the kid is not smart enough to know this then the Mother should have been. At nine years old don't make life harder than it needs to be. I don't know enough about the family but it seems this kid is lacking a positive male role model.

I think I stated in my original post that I thought the bullying of the kid was uncalled for, but it was entirely predictable.

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Originally Posted by mildcigar_2001

My argument with the kid is about time and place. Whether life is fair or not is another discussion. That being said I think it was parental malpractice to allow the young boy to go to school with a "My Little Pony" backpack.

It is unfair to the kid, but both Mom and son should have known no good would come of such a backpack, and were hence dumbasses for allowing the kid to go to school like this. I think I also pointed out in the original post the Mom and son must not be too bright to do this.

I'm sure by the age of 8 or 9, I would have been smart enough (even if I had been a My Little Pony fan) not to wear the paraphernalia to school. If the kid is not smart enough to know this then the Mother should have been. At nine years old don't make life harder than it needs to be. I don't know enough about the family but it seems this kid is lacking a positive male role model.

I think I stated in my original post that I thought the bullying of the kid was uncalled for, but it was entirely predictable.

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By that logic none of these ladies here would have dared to step out the front door.

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My argument with the kid is about time and place. Whether life is fair or not is another discussion. That being said I think it was parental malpractice to allow the young boy to go to school with a "My Little Pony" backpack.

It is unfair to the kid, but both Mom and son should have known no good would come of such a backpack, and were hence dumbasses for allowing the kid to go to school like this. I think I also pointed out in the original post the Mom and son must not be too bright to do this.

I'm sure by the age of 8 or 9, I would have been smart enough (even if I had been a My Little Pony fan) not to wear the paraphernalia to school. If the kid is not smart enough to know this then the Mother should have been. At nine years old don't make life harder than it needs to be. I don't know enough about the family but it seems this kid is lacking a positive male role model.

I think I stated in my original post that I thought the bullying of the kid was uncalled for, but it was entirely predictable.

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You've already made yourself clear. No need to repeat it. Just to be sure, let me make sure I've got it. It's the victim's fault. In your eyes, he's a stupid dumbass. You would have been way smarter. Oh, and his mother is irresponsible. The bully, on the other hand, was just doing what some kids predictably do. Your remedy: suppress the victim's freedom of self-expression. Wouldn't want to suppress the antisocial proclivities of the perpetrator though. That would be anti-Darwinian. That about covers it, right?

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Originally Posted by trish

You've already made yourself clear. No need to repeat it. Just to be sure, let me make sure I've got it. It's the victim's fault. In your eyes, he's a stupid dumbass. You would have been way smarter. Oh, and his mother is irresponsible. The bully, on the other hand, was just doing what some kids predictably do. Your remedy: suppress the victim's freedom of self-expression. Wouldn't want to suppress the antisocial proclivities of the perpetrator though. That would be anti-Darwinian. That about covers it, right?

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First of all, if the victim behaves in a stupid manner, then part of the consequences are the victim's fault. Life is hard, and it is a lot harder when you are stupid.

Secondly, I don't claim any special intelligence as a child, I think most kids by the age of 8 or 9 know very well what is appropriate and what is not appropriate to bring to school. As I stated in my earlier post, I think this kid is missing positive male role models in his life, and his Mom seems clueless.

Third, and this is just an aside, but some of the outbursts and anger control issues demonstrated by some of the posters on this thread, make me believe that the kid is not the only one who missed out on positive male role models. Please note this has little to do with gender dysphoria, but rather personality development (i.e., the impulse control has less to do with the transsexualism than getting adequate male guidance when growing up).

Finally, as far as blaming the victim, suppose for the sake of argument that I put on a Minstrel outfit and blackface and then paraded around Watts in the middle of the night. That's me having freedom of expression. What realistically would you think would happen to me? If I can pretty much guarantee that there will be negative consequences, how much of those negative consequences would be my fault? Just curious.

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Originally Posted by mildcigar_2001

First of all, if the victim behaves in a stupid manner, then part of the consequences are the victim's fault. Life is hard, and it is a lot harder when you are stupid.

Secondly, I don't claim any special intelligence as a child, I think most kids by the age of 8 or 9 know very well what is appropriate and what is not appropriate to bring to school.

Third, and this is just an aside, but some of the outbursts and anger control issues demonstrated by some of the posters on this thread, make me believe that the kid is not the only one who missed out on positive me role models...

Finally, as far as blaming the victim, suppose for the sake of argument that I put on a Minstrel outfit and blackface and then paraded around Watts in the middle of the night. That's me having freedom of expression. What realistically would you think would happen to me? If I can pretty much guarantee that there will be negative consequences, how much of those negative consequences would be my fault? Just curious.

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Your first statement assumes the kid was doing something wrong; your second point furthers that thought and states he should have known better.

Your third statement is just an insult, and your fourth is insulting. Are you really going to equate the choice of a lunchbox with such racist symbols?

You did get one thing right when you said kids have poor impulse control. The part of the brain that controls that doesn't fully develop until the early to mid 20s. But that contradicts your second statement, so we should just move on.

Dude, have fun with your worldview, if you can; I'm miserable just reading this.

You have the chance to learn something here.

Sooo, basically arguing for the status quo? No other disposition could possibly be any more lazy, ineffective and safe. You must get absolutely nothing done. I mean, other than posting empty internet arguments... we all have hobbies.

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Originally Posted by mildcigar_2001

My argument with the kid is about time and place. Whether life is fair or not is another discussion. That being said I think it was parental malpractice to allow the young boy to go to school with a "My Little Pony" backpack.

It is unfair to the kid, but both Mom and son should have known no good would come of such a backpack, and were hence dumbasses for allowing the kid to go to school like this. I think I also pointed out in the original post the Mom and son must not be too bright to do this.

I'm sure by the age of 8 or 9, I would have been smart enough (even if I had been a My Little Pony fan) not to wear the paraphernalia to school. If the kid is not smart enough to know this then the Mother should have been. At nine years old don't make life harder than it needs to be. I don't know enough about the family but it seems this kid is lacking a positive male role model.

I think I stated in my original post that I thought the bullying of the kid was uncalled for, but it was entirely predictable.

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Also, just saying... the cartoon this kid likes and is getting picked on over? Freakin' amazing. It's sincere, intelligent, quick witted and very, very sweet. The animation itself is comfort food for the eyes. There are very good reasons this simple children's television program has a reach that extends beyond the scope of its intended demographic.

The problem isn't that the little kid needs less "ponies" in his life, the problem is that the bully never had any.

Im not going to read this whole thread... but there is a whole MLP movement where str8 adult men go to Brony Conventions, whole documentary on Netflix. Watch it, its very good! Doesn't make them gay, and doesn't make this boy gay cuz he likes the MLP. No one to blame but the people hurting or bullying him. STUPID OF OP TO BLAME MOM! She is letting her son be himself... which more parents should do then we wouldn't have this bullying shit. I grew up not acting like a girl, or any of that... but I was still bullied but the minute I came out no one ever bullied me again. Imagine if I could of went to school the way I wanted to.

The OP has a thing for the whole 'strong male role model' argument. By his definition of what a strong male role model is, his dad must have failed super hardcore. After all, his kid is hanging out on a tranny porn forum, checkin' out all the pretty little cocks and starting his very own MLP threads.

My father was a strong male role model, and for a long time I had no female in my life... so to say it is how my father raised me, is how I live now is stupid. My friends were scared of my dad! LOL Again why is the OP even here?

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Originally Posted by Jamie French

Also, just saying... the cartoon this kid likes and is getting picked on over? Freakin' amazing.

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^^~agree~

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHy3ZhY9VKs

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Originally Posted by trish

Yes. And do lion cubs bully other lion cubs and call them names? Of course not.

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actually, lion cubs do "bully" one another, except they do so as fighting which prepares them for fighting over prides when they grow older (check video below).
unfortunately, lions haven't developed a language to use language to call one another names, but a lion cubs roar to a fellow cub can carry the necessary interpretation

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Originally Posted by trish

They harass others because to divert attention from what they are afraid others will perceive as their own inadequacies. This is not a natural or primitive state.

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i disagree with this statement particularly (but also the others you made).

most bullies i knew bullied because power is intoxicating. to control another human being, means that that individual looks up to you- and who doesn't love when others agree with them? after all, what are most individuals here trying to do when arguing back and forth, than getting the other party to agree with them?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nut1HkNCEDI

It is interesting that the people that should know better are actively advocating for a miserable childhood for the pink pony loving kid.

The "My Little Pony" toys/backpack in a vacuum are neither good or bad. The problem is that the kid does not live in a vacuum.

Once again whether it is fair or not the kid will be picked on for bringing his "poofy" backpack to school. Even if you attempt to punish the other children who make fun of him, he is still going to be picked upon. Why I am unhappy with the Mother's parenting abilities because a good part of being a part in protecting children from their bad choices.

If adults want to make bad choices that is fine they are adults. For example an adult eats until they look like a sow, then that is that adult's own problem. On the other hand if your kid is doing that you as a parent have an obligation to attempt to do something about it.
I know it is tempting to say isn't it cute that the kid in questions likes ponies, but the world is not going to change for this one kid (as unfair as that may be).

Nobody lives in a vacuum, including the bully and a whole host of different flavored assholes. You act violently, you either receive violence in kind or some other just punishment. The kid still gets to play with his pony and you get to rot in a small un-fun box.

You speak against a kid's right to play with pink toys, you're denying a kid his freedom. That flies in the face of an American's right to pursue happiness. I'd have a broken bottle fight on sight with anyone I knew who spoke out against American freedom and the happiness it brings.

And another thing... nobody gives a fuck what some kid does. You'd like to think so, but you'd be projecting. (Pro-Tip: Kids in general love MLP) Every once in a great while some foul shit happens somewhere out there in this great big land of ours, but that's exactly why it makes the news. It's a freakin' anomaly. Fuck off already.

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Originally Posted by mildcigar_2001

It is interesting that the people that should know better are actively advocating for a miserable childhood for the pink pony loving kid.

The "My Little Pony" toys/backpack in a vacuum are neither good or bad. The problem is that the kid does not live in a vacuum.

Once again whether it is fair or not the kid will be picked on for bringing his "poofy" backpack to school. Even if you attempt to punish the other children who make fun of him, he is still going to be picked upon. Why I am unhappy with the Mother's parenting abilities because a good part of being a part in protecting children from their bad choices.

If adults want to make bad choices that is fine they are adults. For example an adult eats until they look like a sow, then that is that adult's own problem. On the other hand if your kid is doing that you as a parent have an obligation to attempt to do something about it.
I know it is tempting to say isn't it cute that the kid in questions likes ponies, but the world is not going to change for this one kid (as unfair as that may be).

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You can find Pony shit right next to the Cannibal Corpse CDs down at your local HotTopic, the only folks who turn a nose up to MLP these days are small handful of dumb-fucks who are out of the loop and full grown adults who have better things to do with there time than spare a single thought on the latest flavor of plastic garbage you can buy down at the mall.

Your little theory is nothing more than self righteous, paranoid, underdeveloped garbage at best.

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Originally Posted by Jamie French

You can find Pony shit right next to the Cannibal Corpse CDs down at your local HotTopic....

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I realize that you are from BFN, but you know what they stock at "HotTopic," really??

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actually, lion cubs do "bully" one another, except they do so as fighting which prepares them for fighting over prides when they grow older (check video below).
unfortunately, lions haven't developed a language to use language to call one another names, but a lion cubs roar to a fellow cub can carry the necessary interpretation

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What the clip shows is one pride defending its kill and territory. It doesn’t show cubs bullying. Cubs roughhouse and play. BTW, lion cubs don’t ROAR, they mew, lol.
Lion Cub Gives Us His Best Roar - YouTube

Among humans bullying may be common, but it’s not normal. It’s the result of deep seated insecurities. It’s a bid for the approval of the audience. (Group approval is power, btw). A bully is much more likely to act out his or her insecurities when their is an audience. The contrapositive of this is that an audience that is not amused can suppress this acting out without even lifting a finger.

But enough with the motivations of the bully. The issue most in dispute here is the action of the 1) victim, 2) his mother and 3) the school. Let’s take them in reverse order.

The world is not fair. We all know that. But we pay schools, not only to teach, but to implement fair policies. For the school, the issue is, “What is a just reaction to this incident of bullying?” Your answer: Suppress the boy’s freedom of self-expression. Forbid him from bringing his favorite lunchbox, backpack, pencil box, whatever to school. It’s not like pink ponies are violent, pornographic, gore or hazardous. We don’t allow all manner of self-expression, but with reason. That’s why we shouldn’t allow violence against or harassment of other students. There's no reason to ban pink ponies. Your further recommendation for the school: Don’t bother counseling the bully, just let his insecurities deepen.

What should the mother do? Of course she knows a pink pony logo on a lunchbox, a jacket etc. might call attention of an unwanted sort. She’s at least as smart as mildcigar_2001. Everybody on the planet is. It’s not a matter of being smart enough to avoid drawing the attention of bullies. It’s a matter of weighing her child’s right to innocent self-expression against the likelihood of and the dangers of being bullies and hassled (which believe it or not, in some school environments, is not all that likely). It’s a cost/benefit analysis. Being bullied is not the worse thing that can happen to a child. In some cases it maybe be less harmful than letting the child be him- or herself. Sometimes, there are no good or bad choices, just choices with different consequences.

What should the kid do? Be himself, of course. That’s the only thing he can do.

There are a few here that keep bringing up lions, tigers and bears. Oh my! Nature, red in tooth and claw. With little doubt the victimized child will survive and I bet he grows to have a strong and interesting personality. If you insist on getting Darwinian-Nietschean about it, “That which does not destroy me makes me stronger.” What about the bully? If he doesn’t get help or grow out his insecurities on his own the bully will grow more and more miserable with himself. He’s a loser. He needs help. At some point in their adult lives the kids in the crowd who degraded themselves by egging the bully on will blush with shame at the memory. Some might even remember it differently to their future friends, “I remember there was a guy bullying a kid, and I stepped in and stopped it.”

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Originally Posted by bluesoul

actually, lion cubs do "bully" one another, except they do so as fighting which prepares them for fighting over prides when they grow older (check video below).
unfortunately, lions haven't developed a language to use language to call one another names, but a lion cubs roar to a fellow cub can carry the necessary interpretation



i disagree with this statement particularly (but also the others you made).

most bullies i knew bullied because power is intoxicating. to control another human being, means that that individual looks up to you- and who doesn't love when others agree with them? after all, what are most individuals here trying to do when arguing back and forth, than getting the other party to agree with them?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nut1HkNCEDI

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http://i.imgur.com/9HYGeeY.jpg

My last post with corrections:

What the clip shows is one pride defending its kill and territory. It doesn’t show cubs bullying. Cubs roughhouse and play. BTW, lion cubs don’t ROAR, they mew, lol.
Lion Cub Gives Us His Best Roar - YouTube

Among humans bullying may be common, but it’s not normal. It’s the result of deep seated insecurities. It’s a bid for the approval of the audience. (Group approval is power, btw). A bully is much more likely to act out his or her insecurities when there is an audience. The contrapositive of this is that an audience that is not amused can suppress this acting out without even lifting a finger.

But enough with the motivations of the bully. The issue most in dispute here is the action of the 1) victim, 2) his mother and 3) the school. Let’s take them in reverse order.

The world is not fair. We all know that. But we pay schools, not only to teach, but to implement fair policies. For the school, the issue is, “What is a just reaction to this incident of bullying?” Your answer: Suppress the boy’s freedom of self-expression. Forbid him from bringing his favorite lunchbox, backpack, pencil box, whatever to school.
It’s not like pink ponies are violent, pornographic, gore or hazardous. We don’t allow all manner of self-expression, but with reason. That’s why we shouldn’t allow violence against or harassment of other students. There's no reason to ban pink ponies.
Your further recommendation for the school: Don’t bother counseling the bully, just let his insecurities deepen.

What should the mother do? Of course she knows a pink pony logo on a lunchbox, a jacket etc. might call attention of an unwanted sort. She’s at least as smart as mildcigar_2001. Everybody on the planet is. It’s not a matter of being smart enough to avoid drawing the attention of bullies. It’s a matter of weighing her child’s right to innocent self-expression against the likelihood of and the dangers of being bullies and hassled (which believe it or not, in some school environments, is not all that likely). It’s a cost/benefit analysis. Being bullied is not the worse thing that can happen to a child. In some cases it maybe be less harmful than not letting the child be him- or herself. Sometimes, there are no good or bad choices, just choices with different consequences.

What should the kid do? Be himself, of course. That’s the only thing he can do.

There are a few here that keep bringing up lions, tigers and bears. Oh my! Nature, red in tooth and claw. With little doubt the victimized child will survive and I bet he grows to have a strong and interesting personality. If you insist on getting Darwinian-Nietschean about it, “That which does not destroy me makes me stronger.” What about the bully? If he doesn’t get help or grow out his insecurities on his own the bully will grow more and more miserable with himself. He’s a loser. He needs help. At some point in their adult lives the kids in the crowd who degraded themselves by egging the bully on will blush with shame at the memory. Some might even remember it differently to their future friends, “I remember there was a guy bullying a kid, and I stepped in and stopped it.”

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Originally Posted by trish

My last post with corrections:

What the clip shows is one pride defending its kill and territory. It doesn’t show cubs bullying. Cubs roughhouse and play. BTW, lion cubs don’t ROAR, they mew, lol.

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again, i disagree. just become it comes from a young cub doesn't mean it's not a roar. it's like saying "a child doesn't cry it wails" just because it doesn't sound like a grown up crying

the cubs vocal cords haven't developed like it's parent so it's roar sounds different. humans have also chosen to interrupt the sound based on how they hear it i.e. it sounds cute so it's a pur. it sounds mean so it's a roar.

also, you said the clip shows a pride defending it's kill and territory. what do you think the defeated (and former pride leader) considers it's attacker if not a bully? do you think it thinks that was just a friend that came into it's family territory, killed it's children and ripped off it's balls? isn't that (literally) the defintion of a bully?

and like i said earlier, i think bullying is normal. it's just a part of social interaction. so it's difficult to address your other points when i disagree with the main crux

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vynkoOlhyNU

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Originally Posted by trish

The world is not fair. We all know that. But we pay schools, not only to teach, but to implement fair policies. For the school, the issue is, “What is a just reaction to this incident of bullying?” Your answer: Suppress the boy’s freedom of self-expression. Forbid him from bringing his favorite lunchbox, backpack, pencil box, whatever to school.
It’s not like pink ponies are violent, pornographic, gore or hazardous. We don’t allow all manner of self-expression, but with reason. That’s why we shouldn’t allow violence against or harassment of other students. There's no reason to ban pink ponies.

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i think you have me misunderstood. i don't think pink ponies should be banned. in fact, there are a lot of things that are banned that i don't think should be banned. personally, i'd rather be arguing to unban books that are banned, because i know nothing about my little pony (or pink ponies) except their color and size

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Originally Posted by bluesoul

most bullies i knew bullied because power is intoxicating. to control another human being, means that that individual looks up to you- and who doesn't love when others agree with them? after all, what are most individuals here trying to do when arguing back and forth, than getting the other party to agree with them?

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It sounds like you’re talking about psychopaths, not bullies. I would really suggest that you consider familiarizing yourself with the scientific literature on bullying rather relying on your own incomplete experience and understanding. Most bullies engage in bullying behaviors because they, themselves, have been bullied. Bullies show higher rates of depression, anxiety, and self-harm than the general population. There may be a power-seeking component, but only to the degree that the bully was previously disempowered.

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Originally Posted by mildcigar_2001

Once again whether it is fair or not the kid will be picked on for bringing his "poofy" backpack to school. Even if you attempt to punish the other children who make fun of him, he is still going to be picked upon. Why I am unhappy with the Mother's parenting abilities because a good part of being a part in protecting children from their bad choices.

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Preventing bullying behavior is not about “punishing” kids. Choosing between punishing the victim and punishing the bullies is already a societal failure. It’s about creating a developmental environment for all children in which bullying is recognized as antisocial and unacceptable. That’s where the grown-ups come in, to model good behavior.

mildcigar_2001 and blue soul are modeling very poor behavior, by insisting that the victimization of children for any reason is somehow “predictable” or “natural.” Children learn behaviors by trying things out and then evaluating the reactions of those around them, especially the adults. When antisocial grownups witness bullying behaviors and say, “Well, kids will be kids,” then the bullies see that their antisocial behavior is what these adults expect of them, and their antisocial behavior is validated and reinforced.

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Originally Posted by mildcigar_2001

I know it is tempting to say isn't it cute that the kid in questions likes ponies, but the world is not going to change for this one kid (as unfair as that may be).

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It’s kind of bizarre to hear someone say this, given the enormous cultural changes that have taken place in our society over the last 15 years or so. In 1998, Matthew Shepard was murdered for being gay and “poofy” people were denied legal recognition of their domestic relationships. Today, hate crimes against gay people are vigorously prosecuted and gay marriage is on its way to legal recognition in every state in the U.S. In 2002, Gwen Araujo was murdered for being transgender. Today, Isis King is a regular contestant on one of the most popular reality shows on television.

In fact, the world is changing, for the better and pretty rapidly. You should consider joining the rest of us.

Hopefully, when we get old, wrinkled and grey homophobia will be as taboo as racism.

Then people won't think:

Oh well they are just asking for it if you play with pink toys when you're the target of bullying.

Sounds similar to other civil issues regarding sex, race, religion and creed.

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Originally Posted by bluesoul

again, i disagree. just become it comes from a young cub doesn't mean it's not a roar. it's like saying "a child doesn't cry it wails" just because it doesn't sound like a grown up crying

the cubs vocal cords haven't developed like it's parent so it's roar sounds different. humans have also chosen to interrupt the sound based on how they hear it i.e. it sounds cute so it's a pur. it sounds mean so it's a roar.

also, you said the clip shows a pride defending it's kill and territory. what do you think the defeated (and former pride leader) considers it's attacker if not a bully? do you think it thinks that was just a friend that came into it's family territory, killed it's children and ripped off it's balls? isn't that (literally) the defintion of a bully?

and like i said earlier, i think bullying is normal. it's just a part of social interaction. so it's difficult to address your other points when i disagree with the main crux

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vynkoOlhyNU

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Once again, all this nature red in tooth and claw stuff is irrelevant (to the issue of bullying) as well as wrong (cubs don't bully). You really do need to look up a few things. In spite of what you "think," bullying is not normal. It is an antisocial aberration. As tombergon points out, it is a learned behavior. It is reinforced by peer audiences. No matter how many times you "disagree with the main crux" the fact of the matter will not change. Don't be afraid. Look it up.

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Originally Posted by bluesoul

i think you have me misunderstood. i don't think pink ponies should be banned. in fact, there are a lot of things that are banned that i don't think should be banned. personally, i'd rather be arguing to unban books that are banned, because i know nothing about my little pony (or pink ponies) except their color and size

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Good. But then I'm confused. Why argue in support of the School's action? Why argue that the mother should ban her son from to take his favorite napsack to school?

http://i.imgur.com/8lZYi9k.jpg

Nothing wrong with our school system dderek, it taught me how to construct grammatical sentences like "Why argue that the mother should ban her son from to take his favorite napsack to school?" What fer you doin' to point finger at 'mercan schuls fer?

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Originally Posted by trish

No matter how many times you "disagree with the main crux" the fact of the matter will not change.

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i agree with you here, except my "facts" and "matter" are different from yours, and i too don't feel like anything will change. also, coincidentally, i think you too should not be afraid to look things up

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Originally Posted by trish

Good. But then I'm confused. Why argue in support of the School's action? Why argue that the mother should ban her son from to take his favorite napsack to school?

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because i think what the bullies did was natural. i also never said (or argued) the mother should ban or discourage her son from taking his favorite napsack to school. i think she should encourage him to do so and face his tormentors, not cower at home and boycott the school or request a ban lift.

i'm a firm believer in facing fear, not running away from it. if he can't do so, then to the winner go the spoils

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Originally Posted by trish

Once again, all this nature red in tooth and claw stuff is irrelevant (to the issue of bullying)

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actually, it supports my point because (like i said earlier) bullying is natural, so "all this nature red in tooth and claw stuff" relevant

I see. You "feel" "your facts" to be true and changing them isn't in your future. Let's leave that on the wayside.

When I ask why support the school's action and why should the mother ban her kid from taking his pony backpack to school your response is

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because i think what the bullies did was natural

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. What's that got to do with the question? For the sake of argument, let's say you're right. Why isn't the mother right too? As I've explained before in a passage you thought was convenient to ignore, it may be better for the child endure the harassment of a bully than to suppress the expression of his own personality through innocent and harmless means.

But really. You need to do some homework. You misuse the word "feral" and when people point you to a dictionary, you still refuse to acknowledge or use the definition given by professional lexicographers. I agree, you can't argue. But not because your "facts" are different from other people's, but because you don't have the facts.

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Originally Posted by trish

Nothing wrong with our school system dderek, it taught me how to construct grammatical sentences like "Why argue that the mother should ban her son from to take his favorite napsack to school?" What fer you doin' to point finger at 'mercan schuls fer?

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Haha I'm east coast Canadian. We're not the brightest sounding people either. The schools are pretty good though but bullying and cyber bullying are becoming worse it seems. There was a young girl who committed suicide a few years ago after being bullied for a long time online. It's a really sad story but the mucky mucks are taking a closer look at things and hopefully some progress will be made. Her name was Rehtaeh Parsons if you're curious.

I'm a former teacher, I believe that bullying is an inevitability since it is a human behavior (IMHO) and young students should be taught about it and how to deal with it. As for the school backpack, I think the mother replacing it would be pragmatic way to prevent her son from being bullied. It should be a family decision though. The school should be working preventing the bullying from happening through education.

If he was really attached to it and he HAD to have it as if it were an expression of his individuality. In that case, replacing it would send the wrong message to him. I would back my son up and make sure he can deal with the BS at school in a good and safe way. School and work is rife with BS so it would be a good opportunity to teach him how to deal with it.

A reasoned response.

Aggressive behavior is natural. Insecurities are inevitable. And parents that have been bullied as children will be around for awhile. Put the three together and bullies will be as common as warts. Having one natural component (aggression) doesn't entail it isn't as aberrant as a case of warts and in need of attention. Certainly nature didn't select for cyber-bullies.

The mother replacing the napsack would be a pragmatic solution, but not necessarily the best solution for her son. I don't think we can make any general prescription here, as the best solution depends intimately upon the people involved, as your response indicates.

Thanks.

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Originally Posted by trish

Thanks.

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No thank you!

It's important to note that broad, incessant, and sensationalist media coverage often leads to gross misperceptions. The media reports breathlessly on cyberbullying, but that's only because it's a relatively new phenomenon, not because it's actually widespread. The highest prevalence of cyberbullying that's been reported anywhere is like 11%.

As for bullying behaviors in general, we know that their prevalence is not increasing, and most researchers have found significant declines in bullying over the past 20 years. Even the most pessimistic experts see a flat trend. This is a nice summary from one of the U.S.'s foremost experts in youth violence:

http://bit.ly/OC7uI9

Money quote: "Four U.S. national data sets show substantial declines in face‐ to‐face bullying and peer related victimizations at school from the 1990s to recent years."

The world is changing, and it's getting better.

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Originally Posted by trish

. What's that got to do with the question? For the sake of argument, let's say you're right.

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it has to do with me answering your question

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Originally Posted by trish

Why isn't the mother right too?

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what are you asking? why isn't the mother right in pulling her child out of school (and homeschooling him) or requesting for the bullies to be disciplined? she's not right for pulling him out of school. she's right for requesting the bullies to be disciplined. but will she be requesting this for the rest of this child's life? because bullies exist beyond school. bullies exist in high school, college, work etc.

asking for the bullies to be disciplined (IMO) isn't enough. she has to educate her child to face these kind of people otherwise he will be a victim for the rest of his life

i don't appreciate the rest of what you said and neither do i see the point of you saying it. if you wish to end the discussion simply say so, but telling me i need to do homework is just a lazy way of saying "go read something that will help you agree with me" and that's not going to happen

end-of-conversation

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Originally Posted by bluesoul

it has to do with me answering your question

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Please explain the logic of how it relates to the question.

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what are you asking? why isn't the mother right in pulling her child out of school (and homeschooling him) or requesting for the bullies to be disciplined? she's not right for pulling him out of school. she's right for requesting the bullies to be disciplined. but will she be requesting this for the rest of this child's life? because bullies exist beyond school. bullies exist in high school, college, work etc.

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Are you sober right now?

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asking for the bullies to be disciplined (IMO) isn't enough.

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Not necessarily disciplined but certainly helped.

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she has to educate her child to face these kind of people otherwise he will be a victim for the rest of his life

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And telling the kid to hide behind a false projection of himself isn't necessarily the appropriate lesson.

This is a really dumb thread. I would think that members of this forum would be a little more understanding of a little boy who wants to use a my little pony back pack. If it's the boy or his mothers fault for allowing him to have a backpack like that, then I guess it's ok to rape a woman who is dressed provacatively. After all when you dress that way you got it coming to ya right? Or it's ok to murder a transsexual woman or gay man. After all gays and transsexuals have a lot of nerve dressing like a woman and or sucking cock and taking it in the ass. And lastly, it must be fine to murder a tranny chaser or admirer. After all, men who like a woman with a cock are not worthy of living, right?

I don't mean to rant so much, but I'm just sayin.

I like My little Pony,but Vas ist das Flammer?

Maybe he sees the toy as an expression of his fundamental nature, maybe he doesn’t. Maybe he can leave it at home without a second thought. Maybe, at this time in his life, he really needs the comfort of having it near. Clearly both mother and child are aware of the social potentialities of bringing the ponypack to school. It’s not of matter of being as smart as mildcigar_2001 (which is a pretty low standard). It’s a matter of weighing the pros and cons. Being made fun of by bullies is not the end of the world. If the kid has the backbone to stand up for himself, good for him. It’s a shame the school acted to keep the decision out of Grayson’s hands. But wait! Here’s the good news...

On March 20, the school retracted it’s decision. Grayson is free to bring his ponypack to school, should he still wish. The decision is now his.

So what is at stake for the trollers in this argument? Why was it so important for them to maintain the mother is irresponsible? Why did they want mothers across the U.S. to keep their sons form taking pink ponies to school? Was it really for the sake of the children? Are we really to believe that’s their motive? That that lies at the bottom of their intransigence on the subject? And why was Darwinism such an issue here? Why was it so important to assert that bullying is a natural behavior? By contrast, in their minds, what is it when a boy brings a pack to school with a pink pony logo? Unnatural?
More interesting than the issue under discussion is the deeper motivation of the trollers. Is it just for the fun of trolling? It certainly isn’t for the art of argument for none of them have yet proposed a coherent argument. Or are there unresolved issues said trollers have not yet come to terms with themselves?

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Originally Posted by Luvs T Gyrls

I like My little Pony,but Vas ist das Flammer?

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In the title of this thread, OP probably just misspelled "flamer."

As in "flaming homosexual."

Classy.