Political Correctness Has Missed Transgender?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Castor_Troy05

Sadly political correctness only really protects the easily offended. Complete waste of time and we won't have any assistance from them for Trans women.

Mainstream acceptance would not be having someone be famous and trans, it'd just be acceptance of her as another woman in whichever field she's in. Kim Petras for example, seems to constantly be rolled out as "youngest ever sex change" yet her music is always a distant afterthought. I'd love nothing more than to see TS women occupying leading lady roles or whatever, instead of being a bad punchline to a joke only misogynists laugh at

---

Actually I like Kim, she's a talented wee minx. Wish she wouldn't speak so quick though

Cyndi Lauper Girls just wanna have fun - Kim Petras Cover - YouTube

Or Bell Nuntita, who enbraces the fact that she's trans.

Transgender at "Thailand's Got Talent" surprises the audience! - Transexual cantora surpreende! - YouTube

I wasn't having a go at Kim, I wish they would allow her music to talk for her instead of her past. I too think she's talented. She speaks like she learned english from Scottish people as we all talk too fast too haha

. As for Bell, I am in awe of that woman

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Castor_Troy05

I wasn't having a go at Kim, I wish they would allow her music to talk for her instead of her past. I too think she's talented. She speaks like she learned english from Scottish people as we all talk too fast too haha

. As for Bell, I am in awe of that woman

---

You're right on all that and I didn't think you were having a go, it was just an excuse to give her some air. I also think what you said about PC was right.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MacShreach

You're right on all that and I didn't think you were having a go, it was just an excuse to give her some air. I also think what you said about PC was right.

---

Always good to see either of those two so I welcome more excuses to do so

Kind of stupid (and telling) that Hit & Miss cast Chloe Sevigny (who I like) instead of finding a TS. Wonder what will happen when / if the show trickles to US.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MacShreach

Or Bell Nuntita, who enbraces the fact that she's trans.

---

She's on TV over there quite often. And had cameos in movies and whatnot.

Unfortunately she was estranged from her family for a long time. But, when she was discovered on the talent show she was reunited with her parents. It was really touching, my ex shed a tear while watching it on TV.

What about Jamie Clayton she played Thomas Jane lover on Hung and not as a drag queen or transvestite.

Lets not forget Laverne Cox in the upcoming Netflix show "Orange is the new black"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GroobyKrissy

Kind of stupid (and telling) that Hit & Miss cast Chloe Sevigny (who I like) instead of finding a TS. Wonder what will happen when / if the show trickles to US.

---

Chloe Sevigny? Huh... kind of ironic as she played the femme fatale who was pursued by an FTM in Boys Don't Cry.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MacShreach

Yahoo. There is one simple reason why so few trans actresses (or actors) break through into mainstream, and that reason is prejudice. Kinda like the above.

---

The prejudice is on your side, having decided there are talented transexual actors who can't get a job, which for all I know may be true. You obviously don''t want to admit that most of the cast of most soap operas are not good at what they do, it may pay the rent but the quality of acting in soap operas has been a standing joke for years. And where there have been transexuals who acted -Eva Robin's for example- they have also been successful and in her case prejudice had nothing to prevent her success, so I am aware that there are transexuals with acting ability -but in terms of volume I don't know how many transexuals want to act, and I doubt it is a lot.

Shame that when they created a drama about a trangendered "hitman" they cast a GG in the role - Hit and Miss.... with Chloe Sevigny. She was good and it was a positive portrayal but how much better, in terms of wider acceptance, it would have been if the tral transgendered actress had been cast in that role.

But it is early days i think. There must be some young transgendered women who will, eventually, become important actresses. But inherent in that is also a contradiction. They should be cast in a variety of roles - anything from a Bond Girl to a costume drama about Elizabethan England - where they are women, rather than the ghettoised portrayal of "girls with a difference.' Then we'll be making progress.

So far most of the talent is in other fields - modelling for sure - and in areas such as music (Wendy carlos and a jazz bass player whose name i can't recall) art, the sciences and more.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stavros

The prejudice is on your side, having decided there are talented transexual actors who can't get a job, which for all I know may be true. You obviously don''t want to admit that most of the cast of most soap operas are not good at what they do, it may pay the rent but the quality of acting in soap operas has been a standing joke for years. And where there have been transexuals who acted -Eva Robin's for example- they have also been successful and in her case prejudice had nothing to prevent her success, so I am aware that there are transexuals with acting ability -but in terms of volume I don't know how many transexuals want to act, and I doubt it is a lot.

---

I will grant you the courtesy of assuming that you are less familiar with English than your own language.

To recap, I have always, and throughout this thread, supported fair treatment of transsexuals, and I was criticising the prejudice against them, not supporting it.

This is not the first time I have had cause to wonder about your reading skills. I am not going to address your comment in detail, since it definitely does not warrant the effort.

Mac... Stavros is as British as you and me...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Prospero

Mac... Stavros is as British as you and me...

---

Sorry, I'm not British. But anyway, I was just being nice.

I assumed you were a Scot

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Prospero

I assumed you were a Scot

---

Indeed I am. And European.

To give a wider context, I do come from the British Isles, but in political terms I reject the Union, the monarchy, et alia and do not have any loyalty at all to the 'British' State. Therefore I do not consider myself 'British' and rather, Scottish and European. With any luck this situation will be regularised in the not-too-distant future.

LOL... I wouldn't count on it. Latest opinion polls suggest otherwise.

Well, they have been wrong before, and if my compadres are stupid enough to reject the opportunity they are being offered, then I will simply finalise my naturalisation as French. So the situation will be regularised, one way or the other.

As an Irish ancestored exile i do sympathise with your position

Good. I have delayed naturalisation out of respect for those still at home who continue to struggle against the British State, its lies and interference. But at the end of the day, being European and part of a real Union is much more important than being part of an obsolete hangover from an Imperial past. I'll be happy either to have a Scottish passport or a French one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MacShreach

I will grant you the courtesy of assuming that you are less familiar with English than your own language.

To recap, I have always, and throughout this thread, supported fair treatment of transsexuals, and I was criticising the prejudice against them, not supporting it.

This is not the first time I have had cause to wonder about your reading skills. I am not going to address your comment in detail, since it definitely does not warrant the effort.

---

In other words, what you have to say is all that matters, there is no debate; your prejudice is not against the transgendered but against me as someone who has exposed your intellectual weakness on issues in other posts. To get to the point, most people do not want to act or perform in public, and unless there is something different about transgendered people they probably conform to the norm which means most transgendered people do not want to act, which therefore makes the pool of transgendered actors seeking work relatively small; there are few if any disabled actors performing in soap operas and I doubt there will be many in spite of the success of the London Paralympic Games. The two key points, in which we are in agreement, is that there is prejudice against transexuals in employment, and that an umarried and alluring transexual character in a soap opera would be a challenge too risky for most networks to take on. Perhaps we can leave it at that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stavros

In other words, what you have to say is all that matters, there is no debate; your prejudice is not against the transgendered but against me as someone who has exposed your intellectual weakness on issues in other posts. To get to the point, most people do not want to act or perform in public, and unless there is something different about transgendered people they probably conform to the norm which means most transgendered people do not want to act, which therefore makes the pool of transgendered actors seeking work relatively small; there are few if any disabled actors performing in soap operas and I doubt there will be many in spite of the success of the London Paralympic Games. The two key points, in which we are in agreement, is that there is prejudice against transexuals in employment, and that an umarried and alluring transexual character in a soap opera would be a challenge too risky for most networks to take on. Perhaps we can leave it at that.

---

Please do not flatter yourself that you have shown any 'intellectual weakness' in my arguments.

I must confess that I do not overly like you, however. Tough. Put me in your block list.

I find the assumption, that the talent pool of trans actors is small due them not wishing to act, laughable. Given the reluctance of society and the media to allow them to perform in roles peacefully, it's hardly by their own choice there aren't more. I do not believe anyone here is asking for them to create trans roles for them, merely allow them to be the women or men, they should be. It's unlikely we'll ever see a trans friendly Bond bedding a TS Bond girl, but we can hope there will be gradual,acceptance in time

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stavros

In other words, what you have to say is all that matters, there is no debate; your prejudice is not against the transgendered but against me as someone who has exposed your intellectual weakness on issues in other posts. To get to the point, most people do not want to act or perform in public, and unless there is something different about transgendered people they probably conform to the norm which means most transgendered people do not want to act, which therefore makes the pool of transgendered actors seeking work relatively small; there are few if any disabled actors performing in soap operas and I doubt there will be many in spite of the success of the London Paralympic Games. The two key points, in which we are in agreement, is that there is prejudice against transexuals in employment, and that an umarried and alluring transexual character in a soap opera would be a challenge too risky for most networks to take on. Perhaps we can leave it at that.

---

But they've already done it lol.
Look up the show "dirty, sexy money".i believe it was on the abc or nbc network

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by amberskyi

Ahh so transsexuals shouldn't be just as attractive a gg woman to protect the precious fragile straight male loll

---

would you rather have trassexuals accurately portrayed or simply portrayed by beautiful ggs? do you put looks above personality?

i actually agree with stravos: if they choose someone really beautiful, would people even notice or care about the character anymore? and if that was the case, why even bring up their being trans as part of the story?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bluesoul

would you rather have trassexuals accurately portrayed or simply portrayed by beautiful ggs? do you put looks above personality?

i actually agree with stravos: if they choose someone really beautiful, would people even notice or care about the character anymore? and if that was the case, why even bring up their being trans as part of the story?

---

I think the full spectrum of ts woman should be represented. Yea some are "masculine", but also some are average looks and some are drop dead gorgeous.
So far the majority of ts portrayal is masculine. Candis Cayne actually spoke about how abc wanted her to deepen her voice to drive home her ts status but she refused.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by amberskyi

So far the majority of ts portrayal is masculine. Candis Cayne actually spoke about how abc wanted her to deepen her voice to drive home her ts status but she refused.

---

well, i don't know the role she was playing, but if the story specifies the character is TS, how is the audience know besides actually voicing it?

television and film are about showing and not telling. if the role was for a woman and didn't specify she was ts or gg, then i can understand her stance.

btw: just realized i really hate typing gg. which other options do i have?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bluesoul

well, i don't know the role she was playing, but if the story specifies the character is TS, how is the audience know besides actually voicing it?

television and film are about showing and not telling. if the role was for a woman and didn't specify she was ts or gg, then i can understand her stance.

btw: just realized i really hate typing gg. which other options do i have?

---

so characters should be a collection of stereotypes and overt caricatures lol.that not good acting,script writing or directing.
you wouldnt have a character of african decent in a full kente cloth ensemble, with a spear, riding an elephant just to get across the person is from africa would lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by amberskyi

so characters should be a collection of stereotypes and overt caricatures lol.that not good acting,script writing or directing.
you wouldnt have a character of african decent in a full kente cloth ensemble, with a spear, riding an elephant just to get across the person is from africa would lol

---

that's actually how films get financing and distribution. the character doesn't have to dress in full kente clothing with a spear riding an elephant, but distributors want to know his african without him saying so. so they'll get an actor like don cheedle and ask him to do an african accent exactly like he did in hotel rwanda. now- does everyone in africa talk like that? in fact, the character that cheedle plays, paul rusesabagina speaks a more british english. but cheedle (and the director) have to make this accessible to everyone and such details are usually overlooked for something more contemporary.

in the same way, not every transsexual "sounds" like a gg so mainstream cinema and television will always go for what "everyone" thinks they sound like. that's what distributors and producers want.

if you want something more realistic, perhaps you should start supporting independent film which will take chances and even feature stories that people actually care about. everything else your talking about is done for profit first and entertainment- never education or information.

but you know what? perhaps lana wachowski in the near future with do trannies a solid and feature an all sci-fi transsexual cast in a blockbuster feature.

Two or three entangled issues here.
1. Shortage of roles offered to TS actresses
2. Shortage of good ts actress (is there? I don't know)
3. Casting GG as transexuals... why in this day and age!
4. Why should a good actress who happens to be transexual be confined to the ghetto of portraying transexuals as opposed to simply being offered good female roles? Surely the journey is to womanhood and a TS actress would want to be judged for her ability to portray a female - in a thriller, a love story, a sci fi epic, a historical epic, a comedy or whatever. This would be real integration and acceptance (without hiding or denying who she is)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bluesoul

that's actually how films get financing and distribution. the character doesn't have to dress in full kente clothing with a spear riding an elephant, but distributors want to know his african without him saying so. so they'll get an actor like don cheedle and ask him to do an african accent exactly like he did in hotel rwanda. now- does everyone in africa talk like that? in fact, the character that cheedle plays, paul rusesabagina speaks a more british english. but cheedle (and the director) have to make this accessible to everyone and such details are usually overlooked for something more contemporary.

in the same way, not every transsexual "sounds" like a gg so mainstream cinema and television will always go for what "everyone" thinks they sound like. that's what distributors and producers want.

if you want something more realistic, perhaps you should start supporting independent film which will take chances and even feature stories that people actually care about. everything else your talking about is done for profit first and entertainment- never education or information.

but you know what? perhaps lana wachowski in the near future with do trannies a solid and feature an all sci-fi transsexual cast in a blockbuster feature.

---

I'm actually all for idie films, mostly horror tho.
To me this issue is not that different from the stereotypical roles that blacks and latinos often get in hollywood.fuck popular perception.popular perception does not equal right

Love / Jamie Clayton on Vimeo

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Prospero

Two or three entangled issues here.
1. Shortage of roles offered to TS actresses
2. Shortage of good ts actress (is there? I don't know)
3. Casting GG as transexuals... why in this day and age!
4. Why should a good actress who happens to be transexual be confined to the ghetto of portraying transexuals as opposed to simply being offered good female roles? Surely the journey is to womanhood and a TS actress would want to be judged for her ability to portray a female - in a thriller, a love story, a sci fi epic, a historical epic, a comedy or whatever. This would be real integration and acceptance (without hiding or denying who she is)

---

Yeah...but.

1 yes, because there is a shortage of decent scripts because writers don't produce material with TS as centrepieces because they don't see it as commercialy viable. (You could buy The Warm Pink Jelly Express Train ebook for $2.50 and buck this trend. Make it worth my while, I'll write more. Get stuff like this noticed, movie producers will pay attention. Simples.)

2. Possible; partly because of 1, not enough material to work in, so no way to gain necessary experience. However an established route into acting is through mainsream modelling and there are now a few TS models.

3 I agree totally, but when you're running a production budget of millions you need guaranteed deliverers, and 1&2 above already compromise the availability of said

4 Goes without saying. However, the TS actresses whom there are came in through TS-specific roles and that is unlikely to change for the foreseeable.Clearly in an ideal world, no-one would pay a blind bit of notice as to whether a woman was trans or cis, they'd just watch her act.

The upshot is that for there to be more TS actresses, there needs to be more material for them to play, which means there must be an established audience, which brings me back to my response to 1 above.

You only have to go back to the fifties to see a time when there were very very few blackfilm actors and really no black male leads. With changing social conditions, more roles came up, giving black actors and actresses the opportunity to develop their skills, until now, when there is simply no question that some of the best and most bankable movie stars are black. There are many similarities, even if they are not completely analogous cases. /rant

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by amberskyi

fuck popular perception.popular perception does not equal right

---

i don't think you understand. they don't care about being right or wrong. they only care about making money. you really think they're going to invest $50 million plus to say fuck popular perception?

besides- hasn't tyler perry built a career from stereotyping black people?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Prospero

Two or three entangled issues here.
1. Shortage of roles offered to TS actresses
2. Shortage of good ts actress (is there? I don't know)
3. Casting GG as transexuals... why in this day and age!
4. Why should a good actress who happens to be transexual be confined to the ghetto of portraying transexuals as opposed to simply being offered good female roles? Surely the journey is to womanhood and a TS actress would want to be judged for her ability to portray a female - in a thriller, a love story, a sci fi epic, a historical epic, a comedy or whatever. This would be real integration and acceptance (without hiding or denying who she is)

---

i thought you work in film.

1. this is n/a. any role can be changed to fit any character. there is currently no demand to make characters transsexual
2. actually, it's more likely nobody is willing to invest for a major motion picture with a transsexual as the lead (or supporting). it is also possibly nobody looking to invest in a transsexual actor (or there is and they cannot succeed doing so because of reason in 1)
3. it's called acting- you know, the same way they got an irish guy to play oskar schindler (a german native)
4. check reasons 1 + 2

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bluesoul

i thought you work in film.

1. this is n/a. any role can be changed to fit any character. there is currently no demand to make characters transsexual
2. actually, it's more likely nobody is willing to invest for a major motion picture with a transsexual as the lead (or supporting). it is also possibly nobody looking to invest in a transsexual actor (or there is and they cannot succeed doing so because of reason in 1)
3. it's called acting- you know, the same way they got an irish guy to play oskar schindler (a german native)
4. check reasons 1 + 2

---

Yup. 'no demand' and 'nobody willing to invest' because of it. When producers think it's a profitable move they'll do itall right.

Hollywood is mostly shit anyway

^^ wrong. making money is the shit

http://i.imgur.com/lvJCA.gif

Hmmm...interesting indeed. Reality versus perception and profitability/preferability versus perfection/perception. Talent and creativity will ultimately make these arguments moot. However, all political correction must enter through a stage of the hypothetical; generate awareness through talent, creativity; and, ultimately, present viable alternative profitability and practicality for the targeted entertainment industry to make concrete change happen.

The dilemma here is the willingness of non-trans persons to work with transgendered persons -and for all of the practical reasons heretofore mentioned (however unpopular or rejected as practical reasons) the change necessary may not be in the interest of such an industry. There is, however, an instaneous injustice in allowing a female born person to play a role centered on a character based upon transgendered origin. That fight is within our grasp for those similarly affected as such.

Misrepresentation of any issues suggests an injustice for which the patience of the passage of time to correct is intolerable. It is such an empassioned intolerance for which sympathy and understanding is not needed to demand correction or convey discontent. Yet, no anger or argument is as resolute as building your own Hollywood. India does it. Supporting transgender talents in their personal ventures is another self-empowering method of correction. These methods are not easily attained; yet, it would be more successful than the back and forth with people incapable of such considerations.