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I have not seen it yet and still have not made up my mind if I want to see it. I was answering GroobyKrissy on what a hardcore Star Trek fan feels for these movies so I am starting with the movie that I have seen. I apologize if I went to far off topic.Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaBellucci
It's all good. I'm just messing with ya. :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by volkov2006
~BB~
Okay sorry, I don't like to make people mad if I can help it, although I usually do when I point out facts which can't be helped.Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaBellucci
But if and when I see this "Star Trek" movie I will give my analysis of it as best I can.
I find stuff like this fascinating... and good for providing conversational fodder if I ever happen to be at the table with Star Trek Fans. So yes, continue.Quote:
Originally Posted by volkov2006
Did you research these all yourself or is there some sort of forum / website that you aggregated this from? You definitely sound like you know what you're talking about but I'm always a bit wary when discussing matters that I have limited knowledge of.
I think some of your points are artistic license. Star Trek is, after all, Sci-Fi(ction / Fantasy). I think if you start pulling physics into a critique of the series, given our limited understanding of the universe, you're going to end up with some heartache. Anyway, if no one else minds, I am totally interested in reading more so I can check them.
Thanks!
Has Data's origin ever been really explained in detail besides the episodes in [I think] Next Generation? Always thought he was a fascinating character too.
Well as I said I am a very hardcore Star Trek Fan and I found those all by myself(which because of this no one wants to watch Star Trek with me for fear of me going off on a scientific rant).Quote:
Originally Posted by GroobyKrissy
And while Star Trek is Sci-Fi it is rooted in science fact. As an example in Star Trek there is a particle that occurs naturally in space called a neutrino that can travel faster than the speed of light, 3 years ago scientists said that going faster than the speed of light is not possible in anyway shape or form. 2 years ago scientists discovered a particle that can travel faster than the speed of light and they named that particle neutrino. Also during the writing and filming of the TV series and the movies they would get a hold of NASA and scientists to check to see what they have is even possible, in fact on one episode of the TNG called "Descent" Stephen Hawking made an appearance. On the same note the science behind how the engines work makes perfect logical sense when all of the recent scientific discoveries that have been made.
Other things that they were ahead of science was Anti-matter, Dark matter, and many spacial anomalies. So while Star Trek is Sci-Fi alot of it is Sci-Fact.
For Data I am not sure I have not read any books that make any changes to his origin story. Which speaking of him in the comic book leading up to the 2009 movie it is said that he is the Captain of the Enterprise-E, which makes no sense because if you go with the theory that B-4 becomes Data after Nemesis, which in books that I have read never happen Data is dead(sad, which Worf becomes his 1st officer). Data would be Picards 1st officer unless Picard died during the mission Data would not become captain of the Enterprise. If he would become captain he would be transferred to a new ship just like in today's world that a 1st officer can not become captain of the same vessel for the fact that the officers and crew underneath him/her may of would not respect them.
LoL... I would love to sit down and watch Star Trek with someone like yourself. Like I said, I find discrepancies in films fascinating. I have a friend who is a LOTR fanatic and sat through basically three days with her going through the movies vs the books. It was a-maz-balls.Quote:
Originally Posted by volkov2006
I was aware that Star Trek consulted with NASA and other scientists (I'll use that term to blanket astrophysicists, theoretical physicists, etc. with apologies to those fields) to create the natural laws which govern the universe, which I think is great. Being somewhat science minded myself, the science of it all appeals more to me than anything.
Anyway... thanks for sharing and feel free to pvt me with more :)
Which? There were a few. Data's backstory has been explored to death, as have the social and moral implications of his existence.Quote:
Originally Posted by GroobyKrissy
~BB~
Think I caught some episodes on Spike or something where he went and found his brother or something, who turned out to be a "bad" model or used to almost destroy the Enterprise... something like that. I had it on in the background while i was working.Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaBellucci
I haven't read any of the Star Trek comics or books so I am just talking TV / movies here. Any specific episodes of Data lore? I am too lazy to Google it.
Yes. Datalore. :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by GroobyKrissy
Season one. Episode Thirteen.
~BB~
The first of Dr. Noonien Soong's androids was B-4 which was in Nemesis which we know very little about, the second was Lore who was the evil one who worked with the Crystaline entity to try and destroy the Enterprise, and the 3rd and last android was Data. They were all created by and in the image of Noonien Soong, so they are all different and have different personalities.Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaBellucci
As for continuing my analysis of the new movies I would love to I don't get to talk enough of Star Trek, mostly because most of my friends like Star Wars more(They also have know idea that I am also in the middle of my transition and would never support it of me anyway), and my wife and I talk about it all the time both of us being Trekkies(we even had a Star Trek themed wedding, if anyone wants to see pictures please let me know).
I will continue my analysis tomorrow as of right now it is time to got to sleep, right after finishing this DS9 episode. I look forward to more interesting conversations about this. Thank you!
Well that was easy. Thanks. I love how Data Lore in Google brings up Data inspired porn. All I can say is... WOW.Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaBellucci
Uhh, yeah. Thanks. I knew that already. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by volkov2006
Now that I DIDN'T know. Awesome!Quote:
Originally Posted by GroobyKrissy
... I think. :lol:
~BB~
Sorry I was doing that mostly for GroobyKrissy since we are getting into a good conversation about Star Trek.Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaBellucci
And to not make myself into a liar I will now go to sleep if anyone wants to talk more let me know, or if they want to just talk in private please let me know.
Bella, after learning you LOVE Star Trek.....you have now become my ideal woman!:Bowdown::jerkoff
Thank you! I just assumed everyone already knew that I'm a geek. :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulka_bewitched_me
~BB~
Quote:
Originally Posted by volkov2006
Look up Trekkie and Trekker on Wikipedia to see what is what . Btw, are there any Niners here ?
A?m I the only one that caught a certain thing in the movie that no one has mentioned ? Heck I laughed when I saw/heard it and at least 1/2 the theater heard me .
How did the Away Team conceal their true identity when they traveled to Qo'anoS ?
How did I misspell Qo'noS
Wikipedia is not the best source foe anything and I was going off of what Gene Roddenberry said, you know the person who created Star Trek, he said it is Trekkie not Trekker. This Trekker thing started up again because the writers of these new movies said that it was Trekker not Trekkie, I for one am going with the creator not the butchers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cecil Rhodes
And I am a DS9 fan in fact it is my favorite series, so many good episodes, good character development, and such good storytelling.
Although as a whole I would agree with you, trying to watch the first season was a tedious journey. Yea I know they were developing the characters but let's be honest there were some fairly stupid/insufferable episodes. Once the main characters were developed I'd have to say alot of the series (especially The Dominion Wars storyline) were some of the best Trek stories. The only real gripe I had was Jake Sisko......the black version of Wesley Crusher. I don't know why the creators felt the need to add an "adolescent" element to the series but what's done is done.Quote:
Originally Posted by volkov2006
Yes the first season was difficult but they were just trying to get started, in the second season they actually started to make the show all about themselves and not just be a spin off of TNG. I think that Voyager was the same until about season 3 or so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulka_bewitched_me
And the Dominion story arc was awesome, the stories were so great especially the ones that showed that the Federation losing the war, after 2 series of the Federation being an almost infallible entity, was just great. Also the way they tied DS9 into the movies(Generations and First Contact) was very well done, even if it was just a quick mention. Also the idea that Sisko was the Emissary of the Prophets was a very good look at religion and how it changes people who have it, don't have it, and those who are thrust into the middle of it.
About Jake I am not sure why they wanted it but I think it was nice to actually see a relationship between father and son, and how they were at odds at times. Also Sisko was named as one of the top 100 TV dads at the time. Although I seem to like Jake more than Wesley, not sure why.
Yea I'll give you that Jake was more tolerable than Wesley but I think that's because TNG painted him as a boy genius and he came across as someone trying to overcompensate, a "goody two shoes", and someone always looking to please.Quote:
Originally Posted by volkov2006
I agree with that and don't get me wrong I did not really like Jake that much but he at least had a person around his age in Nog that made him tolerable unlike Wesley who had no one of his age to interact with I think that is what made Jake the better character. Just like Naomi from Voyager, when she was young she was likeable because she was a little kid, and who doesn't like that, but when she got older the started to lose that interesting vibe and when on to become another Wesley.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulka_bewitched_me
Jake Sisko = FAIL. 'Nuff said. Even when people defend him, the best compliment he receives is, 'at least he wasn't Wesley' (I got shit for this on Star Trek's Facebook page.' That said, it should be interesting to note that Roddenberry claimed that Wesley represented his own perspective on the series, sort of like his proxy.
~BB~
All I said was look it up on Wikipedia . I know what Wikipedia is as do most people . There is a section on Trekkie vs. Trekker . This thread has definitely turned into a Trekker vs Trekkie schism . I am laughing about it myself .Quote:
Originally Posted by volkov2006
As far as Trekkie goes, Roddenberry didn't invent the term . Some writer for a sci=fi mag or tv guide or something did when he saw 15 or 20 homemade Trek costumed weirdos at a sci-fi convention while the TOS was still in production . Trekker dates back to possibly 1970, but it was definitely in common usage by 1972 .
As far as Roddenberry and the Trekkie / Trekker incident goes ....... It is a just a rumor . No one has ever been able to place it by date or even year or location . Of those that claim to have direct knowledge of it or have claimed to be have been present, each person gives conflicting info. I have been told by cast members that it either never happened or it is just rumor .
Just remember this about Roddenberry . He and George Lucas do have 1 thing in common . They are/were both Big Assholes . Gene thought Trekkies and Trekkers were a bunch scary weirdos .
Now I am off to go thru my 20 plus cases of Star Trek / Star Wars / Sci-Fi collectables to find my unopened mib 12" Pike and 12" Gorn Action Figures and let them go at it .
HELLO ...... Anybody ......... Am I the only one that knows this ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cecil Rhodes
LOL I refused to watch the reboot and there is no chance I'll watch this waste of celluloid. Anything remotely resembling coherency or intelligence in an Abrams movie is purely coincidental. This is the man who puked up Armageddon, Cloverfield & Felicity into the world. I'd rather watch Kelly Shore dance in the old HA chat room ...Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaBellucci
Yeah, don't get me wrong Bella...Jake was an EPIC FAIL but me and Volkov2006 were just making the observation that between Jake and Wesley, Jake was the lesser of two evils albeit a very disinteresting character nonetheless.:soapboxQuote:
Originally Posted by BellaBellucci
Armageddon was from Michael Bay and Jerry Bruckheimer. JJ was just one screen writer. And JJ did also give us Lost and Fringe, so he's not the WORST producer/director in show business.Quote:
Originally Posted by BBaggins06
I think The Traveler might disagree with you. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulka_bewitched_me
~BB~
PS: Leeeeave Armageddon Aloooooone! <3
Cloverfield was cool.Quote:
Originally Posted by BBaggins06
Get Steamed you Geeks
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OMG!!!!!! I totally forgot about that horrid character/episode. Bella, you truly are a Sci-Fi>:geek::Bowdown:Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaBellucci
Okay I just saw the movie last night and here is my hardcore Star Trek fan analysis.Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaBellucci
In my opinion it was horrible! Extremely horrible! Reasons:
WARNING SPOILERS!WARNING SPOILERS!WARNING SPOILERS!
1: They are trying to stay true to the Prime Directive by not letting the indigenous population see them. A few problems with that that "Spock" did not mention. If the indigenous population is on the verge of extinction by a natural disaster and is not technologically advanced enough to stop it, they are not allowed and can not interfere.
2: The "cold fusion" devise that "Spock" uses makes absolutely no sense. The Enterprises impulse engines are powered by cold fusion reactors, why would this device act like a cryo bomb device. Also freezing the volcano would that also not freeze the entire mantel of the planet dooming if further?
3: The Enterprise under water, 1: the nacelles would be torn off from the nacelle struts( this ship was designed for space travel not going into a gas giant or an ocean). 2: The salt water would get into the Bussard collectors and cause problems to the overall operation of the ship.
4: Starfleets uniforms are way to militaristic, they are explorers not soldiers, they remind me of WWII German Army uniforms.
5: "Spock" and "Uhura"s relationship would not be allowed on ship it interferes with the way they preform their duties.
6: "Khan" was located in deep space during Kirks historic 5-year mission and they just stumbled on to the SS Botany Bay. How did the Admiral find him so easily?
7: Since when does the Enterprise have missile tubes, it is an exploration vessel not a combat vessel.
8: Transporting from London to Qo'noS, really why have starship then? To have transwarp transporting you first must understand transwarp technology. Last I looked Starfleet did not have transwarp capabilities, only the Borg did, and Starfleet does not use Borg tech.
9: Personal communicators have a range that reaches from Klingon space to Earth? Last I looked they were used for surface to ship and internal ship communications only. They are not cell phones.
10: The Ketha province on Qo'noS was uninhabited? Last I looked that is where the House of Martok lives. And the Klingons that were there were not of the House of Martok the brow ridges are completely wrong.
11: Praxis is apparently in contact with the Qo'noS how are those two planetoids still in one piece, the gravametric shear would tear them both apart.
12: Why is there still disease on Earth? After first contact poverty, DISEASE, and war are all gone.
13: "Khan" was way to emotional and brutal. He was also messy when he attached the emergency council why use a ship that have pulse like phasers, why not a bomb of a projectile that could take the whole room out at once? He is supposed to be a genius.
14: "Spock" melds with "Pike" without consent, yes Spock does that with McKoy in TWOK to save his contra. What this "Spock" did is considered in Vulcan philosophy a form of rape.
15: Section 31 was way to messy in my opinion.
16: A secret shipyard in orbit of a Jupiter moon? Apparently Jupiter Station could not see it?
17: I hate the Enterprise warp core design is laughable at best and makes absolutely no sense if you understand the way warp drive functions.
18: The Enterprise brig apparently does not use force fields any more? Why are they using what I can tell is transparent aluminum, and if it is how does that hole thingy move trough it?
19: How did the Enterprise make it though the Neutral Zone with out the Klingons not see them coming, and they were adrift in Klingon space for how long with out being found.
20: "Pike" was give command of the Enterprise again, he was a cripple he would not have been chosen for the new captain. Captains are like astronauts they have to be in good physical condition.
21: Starfleet/Federation does not have nor believes in the death penalty.
22: Karol Marcus is a scientist and not a part of Starfleet and does not like Starfleet.
23: The design of the Klingon bat'leth looks hideous, the original one was much better.
24: "Spock" yelling "Khan" seems way to forced and in completely out of character.
25: Starfleet does not allow augments such as "Khan" to serve in Starfleet. When Kirk is saved using "Khan"s blood even though it does not change his personality or physical ability, but non the less makes him partly augment and would be striped of command until at least he went through extensive testing and even then may be discharged from Starfleet.
26: Starfleet ships using pulse phasers instead of the beam variant? Starfleet does not develop pulse phasers until the 24th century for the Defiant class.
27: Weapons are now superficial attachments on starships now rather than internal systems?
28: "Khan" says that he was put into stasis 300 years ago? That would put him in the late 1800s around 1896. We did not have the ability to make genetically engineered humans at that point let alone cryo stasis devices. In TWOK he says that he was sent into space in the year 1996, which to me makes much more sense than 1896 just saying.
Did you say Hard Core ?
http://images.plus613.net/images/3/a...kShemales1.jpg
Just got back from it. It's a fun ride, not too deep (though I'd say it was mainly about what people are willing to do or not do and what is ethical for people to do or not do for their perceived families. There was also some tie in to current day questions of whether or not terrorists deserve trials). Way too much emphasis on Kirk, way too little on Benedict Cumberbatch (be still my heart). If you are at all drawn to science fiction, you'd probably find it worth seeing; I am and I did.
1.) AgreedQuote:
Originally Posted by volkov2006
2.) Agreed that it doesn't make sense
3.) Agreed that it is impossible. It was supposed to be "cool" scenes.
4.) Remember, Starfleet changed since the USS Kelvin was blown up by a powerful ship. Starfleet has become more militaristic.
5.) Something similar happened on Enterprise with Tucker and T'Pol. So, there is some leeway on this matter.
6.) Section 31 did deep space scans of unknown space to find the ship. Starfleet's technology jumped ahead because the USS Kelvin performed scans of the Narada.
7.) USS Enterprise was probably refitted after the Narada battle. Again, Starfleet has become slighty more militaristic.
8.) Remember Star Trek? Spock told Scott how to do transwrap transportation and Scott used it to beam onto a ship with Kirk. Apparently, Scott told Starfleet about the technology; however, Starfleet made it top secret.
11.) Praxis was fan service. And, it was a moon of Qo'nos.
13.) Khan went crazy like he did in the Wrath of Khan. He was cracking skulls with his hands.
15.) Section 31 has always been messy. In Deep Space Nine, they tried to examinate a species through biological warfare.
21.) Admiral Marcus, the bad guy, wanted him dead because he would of exposed his secrets if captured.
22.) The timeline was changed; therefore, there is a chance that attitudes changed too.
24.) Fan service and to show that this is an alternate universe.
25.) Some time passed since he got a blood transfusion before he started the 5 year mission. Maybe he was cleared during that time? Additionally, Bashir was allowed to serve in Starfleet.
26.) Which ships used pulse cannons?
28.) McCoy isn't a math professor!
STARFLEET is militaristic . It always has been . It is not only Research & Explorative, it is a PEACEKEEPING service . It may be more defensive than offensive, but in the end there is little difference when the shit hits the fan . STARFLEET is a Naval Service . It has FLEET in it's name . It's ranks are Naval . Not only do Navies have Military Duties, they have Exploration, Research & Scientific ones aswell . Even the smallest Navies on Earth have a Oceanographic Survey or Research Vessel of some type .
When the United States Military finally gets into Space it will be the Navy, not the Air Force that is charge . As far as Land/Planetary Forces are concerned, they will again fall under the Navy by way of the Marines . Space/Planetary Fighters, Bombers, Small Craft etc will fail under Naval Aviation with a Marine Section aswell . Any Space Force that is created afterward will be nothing more than an offshoot branch/service off the Navy .
STARFLEET has a Marine Corps . Kirk mentioned them before the Away Team went down to Kronos . STARFLEET International, the Largest Star Trek Fan Club ( Officially Licensed and recognized by Paramount and the Roddenberry Estate ) has a separate branch called the STARFLEET Marine Corps. / SFMC . They have been around for 3 decades . They use Civil Air Patrol Ribbon Medals for their Fruit Salad . CAP doesn't like it to much but they can't do anything about it . SFMC members make no qualms about being a Military Group .
There were some fans that I know that were considering making a custom colored TNG/DS9 uniform . They were going to be STARFLEET Research & Development . That was just their cover . They were actually going to STARFLEET Intelligence . You don't think that the TOS 5 year mission was for Kirk to fuck every female alien he came into contact with ? The data they collected had to go somewhere . Remember the Genesis Planet ? In ST3 McCoy was asking questions about it and as a result was making certain people very concerned . Who were those people ? It is not hard to figure out .
As far Missile Tubes go, who saw TUSC/ST6 ?
Bat'lith .... I d on't remember seeing one and I was looking . Then again I have a costume made one myself . Mine is awesome and it gets a lot of attention ....... lmao
Hmm..... I wonder if there's a correlation between being a Star Trek fan/Sci-Fi geek and having a sexual attraction to TG/TS/Ladyboys?:wink:
Yes, Starfleet is the Space Navy; however, there has been a balance when it came to their ships. Starfleet rarely built a ship that was meant for war before a war has began. For example, the Akira class and Saber class first appeared during the Dominion War. A Federation Dreadnought Class ship was only mentioned in books (non-canon) and alternate realities were the Federation was at war. Starfleet has been reactionary more so than proactive when it comes to war. In this alternative reality, Starfleet has been proactive in ways to defend itself. Starfleet has been focused on the military aspect of their mission more so their exploration aspect. In the original timeline, Kirk wasn't the first Captain to start and complete a five year mission. There were at least two Captains that finished a five year mission before Kirk took command of the Enterprise.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cecil Rhodes