traffic sells ...
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traffic sells ...
Because content ages. If you can offer something newer, or better packaged, or easier to access content, and you own all of the free alternatives which only offer the dated content, you've given yourself your own competitive advantage. And again, you're not factoring in advertising revenues.Quote:
Originally Posted by nysprod
^ This.Quote:
Originally Posted by LibertyHarkness
~BB~
Ok, so what about Sean's theory: freesite buys paysite then shuts freesite.Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaBellucci
That surely hasn't happened.
It all depends on how one wants to make their profit. One can also make money from this scheme because there are far fewer production costs (nearly none) to run a free site than a pay site, but sometimes a pay site is more profitable. Every deal is different.Quote:
Originally Posted by nysprod
~BB~
In order for that to be correct, you'd have to assume that the typical free tube site porn consumer has waded thru untold thousands of hours of "older" stuff available and is still so in need of more porn, he then has to buy. No.Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaBellucci
And I don't believe the advertising revenues are so great as to justify the 100's of millions needed to get into this business and then actually run it.
You don't have to assume that. You can always remove content as well. When you have that kind of control, you can tweak your model to make it profit however you want it to.Quote:
Originally Posted by nysprod
Analytics can tell you a LOT about your traffic.
~BB~
That doesn't answer an earlier question of mine, which is "the reason why no paysite has ever set up their own freesite in order to drive traffic to their paysite (and garner all the advertising revenue) is..."Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaBellucci
Whatever content is being removed cannot even begin to make up for the endless, limitless supply of free stuff becoming more and more available!Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaBellucci
They do to a certain extent. Seanchai's is what? TGirls.com, right?!Quote:
Originally Posted by nysprod
As to free site owners, they don't producer their own content, so they give away someone else's STOLEN content to bring in their traffic, viewers to which they can sell other products.
Seriously. What's so hard to understand?! :?
~BB~
OMG! Advertising!Quote:
Originally Posted by nysprod
Do you watch television? Do you watch commercials? Do you sometimes buy the products and sometimes not?
~BB~
What's not being understood is how exactly all this free traffic is being monetized so as to justify the 100's of millions of dollars being invested...and the advertising that "Spunk Lube" buys isn't the answer...lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaBellucci
And you're getting away from the original question, which is:
When a freesite buys a paysite it has damaged, how does it then expect to convince people who are getting porn for free to suddenly pay for it?
What legitimate companies do you see advertising on tube sites??Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaBellucci
You're fucking with me now, right?! :?Quote:
Originally Posted by nysprod
Depending on market forces, after one buys a paysite, they can either convert it for use as a traffic magnet (freesite) or decide to produce content (paysite). Some might even find ways to run a profitable freesite that produces content if they can take over the ENTIRE industry. I won't argue that it's not a long-term strategy.
~BB~
It's not the attraction of traffic...that's being accomplished...it's monetizing the traffic i.e. convincing people to buy something they're already getting for free (or simply depending on Spunk Lube to spend 100's of millions on advertising)...oh wait, the freesite will simply buy the Spunk Lube corporation and make the money that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaBellucci
Define 'legitimate companies.?'Quote:
Originally Posted by nysprod
According to Forbes, porn does a billion dollars plus a year in sales... and that's from 2001. That doesn't include accessory businesses that are much larger than 'Spunk Lube.' That's not legitimate enough for you?!
http://www.forbes.com/2001/05/25/0524porn.html
~BB~
why dont you email fabian directly .. go visit xbiz/net look on forums under anything with fabian name on it .. he will happily explain to you how their engine works for tube site, for paysite, for advertising, for contract shooting , for DVD etc .. :)
I've explained it. Repeatedly. I'm done. :lol:
~BB~
Legitimate = non-porn. Think dishwashing liquid.Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaBellucci
Darling, the level of free porn available, not to mention internet penetration, has expanded considerably since 2001. And don't bother quoting 12 year old statistics from a different age and assume they indicate a forever, unbroken, upward path.
The record companies were making plenty of money in CD sales in 2001...now they're not although they have altered their business models. But those new models depend on selling something else, like publishing or live shows which, as should be obvious, is NOT readily available for free to consumers.
http://blog.cytalk.com/2010/01/web-porn-revenue/
Anyone have an even more updated figure?
~BB~
First, there's no way to factually ascertain that info because porno firms are typically private, meaning they are under no obligation to provide certified, audited, financial statements (unlike public companies that sell shares listed on exchanges).Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaBellucci
Next, the percentage attributed to China, with its government sponsored counterfeiting, pirating and intellectual property theft, is likely to be very inaccurate, which leads me to distrust these statistics.
Steven who owns xxxxxxxxxxxxx- be I've dmca'd them several times and they ignore me
Quote:
Originally Posted by nysprod
Not for nothing, but porn is a legit business! Since you think more recent numbers, the following is from the pinkcross website , which is actually anti-porn!
It is estimated that there are 4.2 million porn Web sites — 12 percent of the total amount of sites — allowing access to 72 million worldwide visitors monthly. One-quarter of total daily search engine requests, or 68 million, are for pornographic material, where 40 million Americans are regular visitors.
Chatsworth, California produces 85% of the world’s adult content. All of the top female talent agencies are located in or with in the Chatsworth local radius. Female performers are flown or fly to Chatsworth to work in the adult industry. All of the world’s top male talents live or travel to Chatsworth California for work. Almost every major and minor adult DVD Company is in the local Chatsworth radius.
The United States adult film industry produces 4,000–11,000 films a year and earns an estimated $9–$13 billion in gross revenues annually. An estimated 200 production companies employ 1,200–1,500 performers.
By legitimate I just meant non-porn...lack of better terminology. All these "estimates" are simply speculation since, as I said, no actual financial figures are released. And an "anti-porn" website making these estimates could mean they want to overstate the revenues for their own purposes-like fundraising for example (there has to BE a problem so that they have a "reason" to exist and raise money). Which is exactly what they are:Quote:
Originally Posted by VictoriaVeil
From their website: Pink Cross Foundation is a faith-based IRS approved 501(c)(3) public charity dedicated to reaching out to adult industry
So $13B rev/11k films = $1.18M/film. And 200 producers divvying up $13B/yr leaves $65m/producer/yr. Hmmm...
So with all that loot floating around, what's the problem with free tube sites?
our thoughts:
"People often justify piracy by saying they are stealing from the rich, but they are, in fact, making it more difficult for anyone but the very rich to produce anything." - Gawker Comment
Well said er well quoted lol! Its a matter of revenue going to the proper place.. the smaller the producer the greater effect it has on the bottom line of the particular company..Quote:
Originally Posted by acouplenyc
by the logic of dishwasher soap being a real company versus porn ( and they are both real)-- say a competitor pirates say dove soaps formula to make dishwasher soap and then shared it with the world... how long would it would be before people stopped buying Dove soap?
exactly. it applies across the board. the technorati loves to shout from the mountain tops about how egalitarian they are, but the truth is they just want stuff for free. did you see the below article on Gawker/Gizmodo?Quote:
Originally Posted by VictoriaVeil
http://gawker.com/5977163/hands-on-w...tag=megaupload
I hadnt seen that... (oof.)
I am sure that Grooby sites do very well, but if the independents are making so much from pay-sites, do you see them doing webcam shows for such low rates?Quote:
Originally Posted by seanchai
Makes me think that they must be finding it very hard to make ends meet.
email meQuote:
Originally Posted by KellyShore
Praise for free sites like the AVN things - and awards -with the resulting upsurge in traffic to them must surely jeopardise some of the sites we all love so well, like this one.
Pills, especially sex aid pills is the big one but also high ticket/low cost porn like phone sex, cam sex, dating sites promote themselves on these sites. It's not just the advertisement you can see, it's controlling the traffic and being able to direct it to a site, there is more than one way to do that.Quote:
Originally Posted by nysprod
Paysites have a very poor ratio of return advertising on those sites.
It's not a theory, it's what's happenning. This is what fucks me off about people like you. You ask a question, the answers are given and then you decide to argue against it.Quote:
Originally Posted by nysprod
We own a couple of hundred free sites from hungangels, hungdevils, tgflix, tgirls, solo model blogs, specific blogs, FHG sites.Quote:
Originally Posted by nysprod
What we don't do is take other people's stolen content to raise our profile and traffic.
It's like pulling teeth.Quote:
Originally Posted by nysprod
The free tube sites aren't targetting specific sites to devalue them - they've targetted the industry in general. A program or website may start to see it's value and sales drop and decide now is a good time to sell.
The buyer, gets a name brand with a good reputation and can then send traffic from their network of other brands, free sites and other traffic sources to the site to hopefully increase revenue. As they're a larger company, costs are lower and they can sell within their network. They also get the very valuable "ex-member" list. Anybody who has been a member of a website before has probably had an email sometime after they cancelled giving them an offer to return or join another site at a discount. These "ex-members" are pre-qualified (we know they have a credit card and are willing to purchase paysite memberships) so the amount of sales you get on a right offer can be staggering, especially when the ex-member list can go into the 100,000's of people.
Let's look at something a little closer to home. Hungangels.com is a brand and site that's been around for sometime and made it's money from affiliate sales. The previous owner had other committments and was unable to invest enough time in the site to make it enough money, and with affiliate sales dropping by the month as many paysites were making less new sales - so decided a one-time buyout (after making money on the site for 10 yrs).
A larger company (Grooby) which could absorb the running costs of servers and staff buys it. Immediately there is a saving, as we don't have to pay afffiliate fees for sales to our own sites to Hungangels.com. We then do some basic cosmetic work, link it into our other networks to drive more traffic in, change out the banners to a lot more Grooby sites but also other sites we know we can make sales on. Other bonuses are the members list, the search engine ranking that we can use to link our sites to (Hungangels has an excellent ranking) and the ability to use the site as an outlet for our products. We'll have recovered our investment in under 18 months.
So again - Manwin has bought up good brands - Reality Kings, Digital Playground, etc were all bluechip type adult brands but worth less than they were before the advent of the free for all tube sites. Because of the size of Manwin's network they should be able to make those brands profitable. The business model isn't bad - but using stolen content sites to drive traffic (and hurt the overall business) is.
If by "independent" sites you mean solo model sites, well that businsess model is well broken regardless of whether independent or with a big company. Some solo models compete really well, especially ones who have something a bit different to offer but the general TS model site (or any solo girl site) is a hard sell. To be fair, it's not just the piracy that has hurt them but the amount of solo girl websites out there (almost every girl has one ... and watch for another later today) but also the size and value for money that the larger paysites offer. A lot of solo models sites have hurt themselves by not updating regularly or giving customers some form of access to them.Quote:
Originally Posted by tvkim
I don't think camming for $2 a minute is bad ($120 an hr?) especially on top of running a site, doing affiliate sales, etc. It's all income.
some cam girls make over $10,000.00+++/week.
a Friend of mine was able to purchase a home cash after doing a cam girl job for about a year.
she got $2.00/min for nude chat per user. there were sometimes 10++ or more user at any one minute.
I think a few times when I was there she had 30 or 50 users doing nude chat with her.
thats $2 x 40 users x minutes=$$$$$$$
lets say she has $2X40X60 minutes X2 hours X 5 days/week=$48,000.00
nude chat was purchased in bocks of time for $25.00,$50.00 ,$75.00 and $100.00...........++++
her nude chat actually cost more then $2/min and you did not have to use the whole prepaid $25.00 time.
many people say a legitimate acting job or Hollywood job is one that has the back end $$$$$$$. residuals like an actor in a Hollywood film.
an actress who won a 2013 AVN award was said to be homeless and broke.
another actress was living in a mobil home yet her one movie made over 1 billion dollars USA.
this is why porn is not considered a legitimate business.
many movies get big advertisement dollars and product placement. you can not get that with adult porn.
no billboard ad's, no magazine or television advertisement, no product placement at MC Donald's ,burger king are any popular food chain.
porn actors miss out on a lot of $$$ in residuals and often there scence get released over without the actor earning any additional income or incentative to promote the film. so adult actresses or contract girls and get money to become exclusive to a certain porn company and to show up at trade shows.
Thread of the year so far. An eye-opener on how the industry works.
Ok, I promise to not make any further attempts at intelligent conversation...Quote:
Originally Posted by seanchai
Further ?Quote:
Originally Posted by nysprod
Seriously though, don't ask a question of someone qualified to give the proper answer and then decide to start arguing because you don't like the answer. I'm happy to elaborate but it's dull to have to repeat myself.