I'll fix it next time there's an opportunity to use it.
That probably means I'll fix it tomorrow. I usually throw out the PSD files when I make something simple like this, and I'm way too tired to be fucking around remaking the thing tonight.
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I'll fix it next time there's an opportunity to use it.
That probably means I'll fix it tomorrow. I usually throw out the PSD files when I make something simple like this, and I'm way too tired to be fucking around remaking the thing tonight.
To me a CD or TV is man so if a guy goes with one he is not straight he is at least bisexsual no matter how good the cd looks.
You’re right on the principle, in my opinion, lovely Sensuelle (oups! that one although true is a bit redundant! ;)). I agree with you (and I respect bisexuality too; I don't mean to offend anyone). But seeing some men today who are so naturally feminine, I’ve been wandering more and more where the line is. Some of these young men who models high fashion as females, are sometimes so feminine, there’s no way anyone could know they are male would they see them anywhere. I’m personally repulsed by the idea of sex with a man. Not by sex with a girl with a little extra. But with people who are so androgynous, like these, I have a hard time. In all honesty, I’m troubled by some of them. I’m not sure how my body would react, if I was to try sex with one of them. Not sure at all it would work. But my point is, there’s a fine line that for some reasons (surely of a biological nature, because as far as I’m concerned, this phenomenon is new, it dates back to only a few years) is getting thinner and thinner yet. And I don’t know where this is all going…Quote:
Originally Posted by sensuelle
CD'S & TV'S or under the umbrella of TG,especially CD'S
they feel like a woman but not just all the time.
cd's go through more trouble then TV to get dressed and present as a woman.
i THINK TV'S WILL NOT SHAVE OR do enough to look feminine
DQ are either doing it for shows,contest or performance or they might be "TRANNY CHASER CHASERS"
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Originally Posted by sensuelle
Yes i get your point some cd's look really convincing but as soon as the wigs comes off and the pre filled bra is taken off it is still a boy and usually they wear a very heavy amount of make up.I dont want to judge anyone but i am just saying that if someone has sex with a cd or tv he has to have bi feelings because in the end a cd= a man.
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Originally Posted by danthepoetman
yes sometimes they are classed under the umbrella of tg but in my opnion this is not correct since a beeing a cd or tv is a fetish or a sexsual thing.While beeing a ts or tg is something completly different.This also why i think ts/tg also shouldent be in the same category as gay and bi people because beeing a ts/tg has something to do with who you are yourself while beeing gay or bi has something to do with who you are attracted to, these are 2 completly different things!
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Originally Posted by natina
Main stream society says even TS POST OP or PRE OP TS are MEN
see proof below
Judge Denies Transgender's Request for Name Change
http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=70677
Judge listed "the gender reassignment process will not alter Petitioner's DNA" as the reason the request was denied. Judge also cited Genesis 1:27, 28: "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth..."
Sensuelle, I’m not talking about a guy with a wig at all. And I’m not saying that you’re wrong on the principle. I’m talking to you about a fine line androgyny as been thinning and reducing and playing with for a few years. So much so that it’s getting weird. I’m talking about someone like him, Stas Fedyanin. He’s a male who models as female. He lives in female clothing and act like one, but weirdly remains male. And that’s just one example.Quote:
Originally Posted by sensuelle
great looking CD'S who look like women most of the time are all the time.
some get breast implants, butt and hip work,cheek and chin work but do not say they are a woman are even TG
Quote:
Originally Posted by sensuelle
Natina is obviously right.Quote:
Originally Posted by natina
But Sensuelle, I'm not seeking a debate with you; you're also totally right: there's no mistake possible, there's a world of difference between a ts and a tv or a cd. That's not my point.
THANK YOU THANK YOU..:iagree:. It's good to hear a woman express this. I said the exact same thing in another "reviews" thread and ALL of the dudes..especially the brits jumped all over me. The facts are the facts. They try to convince others because they are trying to justify it in thier own heads, A CD/TV is a man..plain and simple and should NOT be considered in the same category as a TS..periodQuote:
Originally Posted by sensuelle
And it's all the more true that these guys will age and loose their feminine features, eventually. If they want to remain what they are (and in fact, who they are), they need to eventually transition. I think you're right again, Natina. But this is a new phenomenon that goes beyond simple transvestism. We just live in a weirder and weirder society. Exciting and strange, but sometimes really weird.Quote:
Originally Posted by natina
EVEN ts WILL LOSE THERE FEMININITY if they do not take hormones.
castration helps
how many times have I seen a TS who use to look very good start to get hard looking and pick up masculine muscle from doing activity's that if they were a GG woman would not be able to do???????
Quote:
Originally Posted by natina
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Originally Posted by natina
No their straight for the time i crossdress for them and put make up and everything , high heels!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by tsdvdman
crossdressers and transvestites arent going to transition because they dont feel like woman at all.they have no drive or desire to reach womanhood.Quote:
Originally Posted by danthepoetman
no some transwoman start out cross dressing (or dressing part time) but they are still woman because they spent theyre whole life feeling like they were born in the wrong body.a phenomenon that a cd/tv wouldn't understand.
the last photos you posted are of carmen carrera who is indeed a transwoman. she just happens to do drag for a careerQuote:
Originally Posted by natina
carmen was a crossdresser and or drag performer before recent transition
Yes. Sure, Amber. Absolutely. Once again, that’s not my point. There is not one single doubt in my mind that transsexuality in women is a biological condition, that the irresistible and crystal clear inner feeling of a transsexual woman is that of a woman, and that she therefore find herself trapped in the wrong body. No argument from me about that.Quote:
Originally Posted by amberskyi
We sure have talked about the subject often, but I’m surprised that what I’m alluding to doesn’t seem to get across at all. I guess I express myself badly.
I find that there is a new phenomenon, Amber, of which nature we know very little about. Real androgyny, which is quite beyond the traditional nature of transvestism. It’s not “normal” (I’ll use the big word) for a guy to be so feminine naturally (as these models I’m showing you). To me, there’s probably another type of biological phenomenon there. And these individuals are in their own way jerking with this line between male and female. Am I happy about that? Personally, hell! no. I’m an old hetero guy and I feel fucked (no pun)… I feel fooled, and troubled. This is just weird!
androgeny is not a new phenomenon. look at grace jones.she had masculine and feminine characteristics in equal measure but identified as a woman. also theres prince.extremely pretty and feminine for a dude but has never identified as anything other than a hetero male.what about jaye davidson from the crying game? very extremely pretty and feminine but now living as a buff gay dude lolQuote:
Originally Posted by danthepoetman
These are pretty recent examples, Amber. And yet even the persons you mention are not anywhere as close as where this Stas Fedyanin is, or for instance Arthur Nazarov (I don’t know all of their names by heart). It is a relatively new phenomenon and this is precisely part of my point: they’re getting more and more feminine. That’s what so strange!Quote:
Originally Posted by amberskyi
You don’t find such femininity in males in history. Or at least, not since the time of early photography and cinema. And not really either in painting. Nothing of this sword.
ancient egypts androgynous king:Quote:
Originally Posted by danthepoetman
""[He had] an androgynous appearance. He had a female physique with wide hips and breasts, but he was male and he was fertile and he had six daughters," Braverman said."
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...minine-ph.html
Yes, we think it was a case of intersexuality, most probably the result of Androgen Insensivity Syndrome (which is the major cause). But once again, it’s not what we’re talking about one bit, here. lolQuote:
Originally Posted by amberskyi
Or yet, it does have a relation to that, in my opinion. I really suspect we're facing a new kind of biological phenomenon.
how isnt it? he was feminine and yet was still a man.Quote:
Originally Posted by danthepoetman
so whos to say that these male models dont have the same hormonal imbalance thats making them appear feminine?
im just saying that androgyny no matter how extreme is nothing new.it might just be new to you lol
No no, Amber: you can’t mix intersexuation with androgyny in history. AIS is a well defined and well known condition today. And a few others cause different types of intersexuation. Yet, as I was saying myself, you’re right in saying that it probably is something of the same nature, something biological indeed. Yes! That’s exactly my point! There is something weird happening, and new, and that touches more individuals than ever before, obviously. All you have to do to see that, is check the fashion world, check on the net, anywhere!Quote:
Originally Posted by amberskyi
Again my friend...its nothing new.just google androgyny in art and historyQuote:
Originally Posted by danthepoetman
Amber, your penetrating intelligence forces my submission to your view... I was precisely trying to say the opposite, but I can't deny the strength of your arguments. You obviously see everything I said with an infallible clarity and have pierced through the fortress of my errors. I stand corrected. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by amberskyi
Mmmmm you might want to check out the 'Mollie Houses' which existed in 18th century London. Perhaps also the description (in Burckhart and elsewhere) of the femboys who hung about the corners of Florentine streets (and whom MIchelangelo was attracted to.) These were young men presenting as closely to female as they could in an era when doing so could get you executed. In Rome, young men self-castrated in the temple of Cybele and then lived as female prostitutes, and this tradition can be traced back to the Temple of Inana in Uruk in Sumer. The Native American peoples also had transgendered people. Going the other way, George Sand (a natal woman) habitually presented as a man.Quote:
Originally Posted by danthepoetman
As for representation in art, the 'Morning' in Michelangelo's sculpture is clearly a man with tits, and there is an obvious femboy standing behind Jesus in da Vinci's 'last supper'==albeit one which has often been misrepresented as a woman!
Transgenderism most certainly is not a new phenomenon; yes modern medicine can make a transgendered individual very much more convincing in appearance, but the social phenomenon is as old as society.
Well, she's sitting actually. But anyway
Two things are new in addition to modern medicine: the first is that while being transgendered is still dangerous, it is no longer punishable by a judicial death sentence, at least in large parts of the world (thankfully) (sorry I'm chatting with a student as well this is a bit disjointed) Where was I? and there is greater freedom for TS/TG to present as what they are with less risk of social violence. Secondly the internet has made it possible for TS/TG to be in public while also quite anonymous and has very much strengthened the network...which just did not exist before.Quote:
Originally Posted by danthepoetman
These have also allowed trans-attracted men like us to come much more out into the open where once we would probably not, because we could not see how we fitted or even knew what we are--we knew we were not gay because we are attracted to women, but we had nowhere to find similar voices. Places like this, for all its faults, provide that.
(BTW I just remembered I have a ref somewhere to conquistadores finding transgendered people in Peru in the 16th c)
You know John was always presented as a very young man. The tradition had it that he was 15. And it wasn't to displease Leonardo, who has you know, was leaning pretty hard toward young men...Quote:
Originally Posted by MacShreach
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacShreach
I now have to suppose my English is much much worst than I ever have envisioned!Quote:
Originally Posted by MacShreach
I know there always were transgenderism, MacShreach! And in almost every country, everywhere in the world! I myself am partly huron Indian and I know very well about everything surrounding the berdache. I’m NOT talking about that! What I’m saying is exactly on this line: we know there has always been transvestites and surely transsexuals, but nowhere in any type of iconographic records do you ever see anyone looking as feminine as some of the young men we see today -and I don't mean t-women: men. NOWHERE! We would see it; we would have the data, the images; we would know! Nowhere in the literature do you have any mention of very credible and passable transvestites. Even in the Greek society, which was very free with homosexuality and quite free with such cases of transgenderism, the mentions we have shows how ridicule these transvestites were to the eye of people in general. Aristophanes, for instance, with one of his character in “The Thesmophorias”. In the photographic records, you can only find very few remotely passable individuals before about the 50s. And more and more and ever more since then. There’s a few representations in art, but usually, these representations obviously shows adolescents, like Verrochio’s David, for instance. On the contrary, we are told and reminded that in theatre, in the West, teenagers had to play the roles of females when women were forbidden, before somewhere in the 17th century, for the play to be realistic and enjoyable. Same thing in Japan and in the Chinese opera. In Japan men eventually replaced teens, but quite a bit closer to our time.
There is something totally new here: naturally very feminine men; biologically or physically or morphologically. It can only be a biological phenomenon.
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Originally Posted by danthepoetman
I blame Glam Rock! :shrug
lol :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jericho
Most definitely has something to do with it.
One more thing you should be careful about, MacShreach, is the link you’re making between religious figures. Yes, Cybele is a fertility goddess from Turkish (today) origins, and her priests were castrating themselves. But you can’t confuse sacred prostitution with the lives of the priests, who were the gardian of the cult and not prostitutes themselves. Women were prostituting themselves around many temples in Ancient times; it doesn’t have any direct relation to the cult of Cybele. You link Cybele to the Summerian goddess Inana, but nothing seems to indicate that one came from the other. They were both fertility goddesses with very different attributes. You also linked Inana to Ishtar, somewhere else: Ishtar is the Assyrian goddess of love and war, that absorbed Inana after the conquest of Mesopotamia, and also integrated her attributes, but the second doesn’t come from the first. You even went as far as relating Cybele with Isis! The Egyptian genius was by much fertile enough to produce its own mythology, you know. Besides, Isis came from the myth of the resurrected god Osiris, who had more to do at the time with fertility and the Nile than Isis herself. The myth of Osiris and the practices related to it were in place 26 hundred years BC. In fact, Isis only became a prominent goddess much later, when Osiris was transform into Sarapis, during the hellenistic period. She then developed a large following and later on, the famous Mysteries which probably influenced the birth of Christianity, with other Mysteries cults. Yes, the places where the “black virgins” were celebrated were converted by Catholicisim into “Notre Dame” churches and the same imagery (Isis mother with the infant Horus) adopted for the Virgin Mary.
The link you finally establish between Batchura Mata and Cybele is interesting, but quite immoderate. Once again, it’s not as if the mythology of North India was not fertile enough in itself. In the case of Cybele, it’s her lover that spills his blood by castrating himself; on the contrary, Batchura Mata cuts her breasts. The obvious association is that of a bloody sacrifice to the earth, but such religious ideas were very common throughout the world: even in the Americas, long before the arrival of the Europeans! And castration was also practiced in many places around the world. The link between the two are very loose.
There. I said it. It had bothered me ever since I read it on the other thread. You obviously have good knowledge of mythology; I just didn’t want to get into such a debate. But there it is: I succumbed.
Danthepoetman, I thought I was the only nerd of transsexualsim throut history and religion. I started studying it 20+ years ago to help keep me sane with being trans-attracted. Big props to you bro!
LOL..yep..and if you got a big dick they will give you a rave review in the "TS" section at that..lol.SMHQuote:
Originally Posted by bottomXOslave
lol Thanks, Dabaldone... :) :cheers:Quote:
Originally Posted by dabaldone
more androgyny through out history:
-greak figure aphroditus. depicted as having breast and female figure but also having a penis and beard....Aphroditus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
-Donatello's bronze david is known for it androgynous and effeminate nature...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_(...e_bronze_David
-leanardo da vinci's oil painting of john the baptist stood out for its unusual portrayal of st john as androgynous and feminine...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Joh...tist_(Leonardo)
-roman historian quintus curtius rufus talks about alexander the greats eunuch lover bogoas. "Curtius maintains that Alexander also took as a lover "... Bagoas, a eunuch exceptional in beauty and in the very flower of boyhood, with whom Darius was intimate and with whom Alexander would later be intimate" (VI.5.23). "........http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/..._and_sexuality
I remember having a Motley Crue poster up on my wall as a teen. My father was like WTF? but I told him they were just into Satan pointing at the Pentagram and not a pack o' queers. He rubbed his chin and walked away.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jericho