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i agree with you 100 percent mate these uni kids aint going to get the general publics support.i think its wrong that these company directors get so much money they can never spend it in a life time but little rich dickheads making clown's out of themselves aint the way to prove a pointQuote:
Originally Posted by fred41
If this was taking place in a middle eastern capital against the tyranny of some tinpot dictator we would all be cheering the protestors on. This time it's happening at the very heart of western capitalism and against the tyranny of the banks and their supine cronies in government of either hue, they're all equally culpable.
The students in Cairo got the same shit from their establishment and their lackeys in the media when the protests began in February, and yet they managed within a matter of weeks to overthrow what had become in effect 50 years of stifling and corrupt dictatorship, if you include both the Sadat and Mubarak regimes.
OK, so it would stretch the parallels to breaking point and beyond to take this much further, but the events in New York and elsewhere are in some respects not wildly different - it's a powerless and frustrated populace organising to take on what is to all intents and purposes a series of institutions which have done them and the entire population (of the world, not just the US) great wrong, and over the same period have not only further drained the nation's resources, but have carried on unscathed, with total impunity and the same unbridled arrogance. Believe me, those guys would do the same again tomorrow without turning a hair if they thought they could cut a profit from it. It's capitalism, it's about profit first, second, third and last, and fuck anyone who gets in the way.
These guys have settled on the right target, the people and businesses which created this mess. Yes, government was asleep at the wheel in terms of regulation and helped to facilitate what happened. But it wasn't government that created the whole sub-prime disaster or the financial products that they knew were worthless as they sold them. It was the banks.
What's happening here goes right to the core of America's belief system, that capitalism is ultimately beneficial for all and the only game in town. Well, it isn't, it fucks ordinary people over again and again and will continue to do so until governments worldwide have the courage, acting in concert, to take the bastards in the banks on and call their bluff.
Yep, I'm what you would call another candy-ass liberal wimp from the UK, but I'm calling this as I see it. I don't know if it will succeed, I don't care how many trust-fund kids are involved, but it's new and strange and it's scaring the shit out of the vested interests. It does my radical heart good to see people taking on the biggest and nastiest beasts in the forest. As Wordsworth said in 1802 in the context of the French Revolution, "Bliss was it in that dawn to be alive, but to be young was very heaven."
It's intoxicating to see the establishment on the run. All power to those involved.
Well stated, RobertLouis, but I take exception to the thought of the US gvt. "asleep at the wheel".
My hope is that what we're seeing is an America waking up to the utter complicity of government in creating this mess- actively charting the course through these waters while keelhauling the masses.
:iagree::iagree: Robertlouis, I couldn't have put it any better. Very well said :iagree::iagree:Quote:
Originally Posted by robertlouis
I had posted this in another thread but this video strikes to the core at why banks have no desire to change the status quo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzpOg8APiBo
fuck wall street!
I think we're in violent agreement on the point of government's role, Dave. Yes, they were complicit, and the blame lies with both Clinton and Bush, Obama's only fault in this regard has been his failure of courage in not tackling the systemic abuses of the banks and the financial system in general (and a similar failing in too many other things to mention....)Quote:
Originally Posted by MdR Dave
However, my point is that while those in government facilitated the whole scandalous mess by their dismantling of the checks and balances that had governed financial business since the 30s, the banks took the opportunity to leap into the void that action created and to turn the whole environment utterly toxic.
Government was complicit, but the banks were culpable. Whether individuals within governments actively connived at what was going on is another matter, but I don't think that there has ever been a suggestion that it constituted overt government policy.
And a couple of glimpses/pointers from the UK. At the Tory conference yesterday the prime minister finally admitted for the very first time that the current debt crisis may actually have had something to do with worldwide factors and wasn't solely down to the previous Labour administration.
He also through his weight and commitment quite unequivocally behind full legalisation of gay marriage in the UK. He may be truly conservative in many things, but I totally applaud and support his social liberalism, it's a very significant shift within his party (probably hated by the right) but it took personal courage and it's a wonderful development. Now, can you imagine the US parallel of a sitting Republican president making the same open commitment? You guys have a long way to go.
i have always hated smart arse rich that don't have to work and run around looking like shit and whinging [protesting] and sneering at working people. but i do think its so wrong that a man or woman cant spend what they receive in their pay in a life time and that has to stop .maybe if the government placed bans on these obscene salaries it might help
You're just being ridiculous. If not Mickey D, then some other. Bars, restaurants,. Hell, FedEx is hiring seasonal drivers. No one is going to get rich off of these types of jobs, but I was responding to someone complaining of not being able to pay tuition, and that's how I did it. Oh and in response to someone complaining about the high cost of today's tuition. I could have applied to an expensive college but chose instead to apply to an affordable university.Quote:
Originally Posted by maxpower
Do you really think these republicans will allow that to happen?Quote:
Originally Posted by russtafa
Beautifully put. Its a shame how people get so conditioned by the American system of thinking capitalism is the only way. the gentleman complaining about he has to work has no clue how demoralizing wage slavery is I'm guessing, its just a natrual corce of his life. Indeed wether the cause is concise or not, its nothing to sneeze at that these are the largest on going protests in a long time. THey are afraid to call this a class struggle but thats exactly what it is.. 1% of our population controls the majority of the wealth.. No matter how much you try to get around it thats a fact,. that means that small majority holds more power and influence..
Its so sad that a lot of Americans like dakota87 get drawn into the fallacy of poor impoverished people are their from their own lack of willingness to work or sacrafice and thats just utter stupidity. The poverrty gap between rich and poor are at the most polar levels since THE GREAT DEPRESSION.. America needs to add like !00K jobs to the economy every month to keep up with all the unemployed and new workers who are entering the work force. WE NEVER HAVE DONE THIS.. there are like 1 job for every 8 people. Maybe higher.. and Dakota again when did you go to school? You sound out of touch with people honestly.. We are the 99%..
If you don't have a trust fund living off mommy and daddy, you should be in support of those fighting for you to have a better standard of living.
You are right on point with this, Robertlouis. While our government occupied itself with the war on terror and finding ways to grow government by using the fear caused by 9/11 they let off on the oversight of our financial institutions that would have picked up on the coming crisis in 2008. The Occupy Wall Street protest is reflective of what people are starting to realize about our government and who is actually running our country.Quote:
Originally Posted by robertlouis
Back in the early 1980's I was in a corporate training course at one of the leading firms in the world. My instructor in economics then predicted that the US would transform from an industrial based economy to one based on the service industry in the new millennium. Since this seems to be exactly what is going on right now, as our manufacturing base erodes, the fact that he made this prediction nearly 30 years ago makes me wonder if this isn't someone's grand plan.
And as our manufacturing base disappears, so does our middle class start to shrink. The threat of that seems to have come home as I've heard this morning that unions are starting to join the protest. I am not sure how to stop this trend or even if it is possible, but this next shift in our economic system threatens to be very painful for many of us. I myself am dependent right now on my Social Security disability which is now termed an entitlement and perhaps subject to cuts, although as a member of the boomer generation, politicians seeking my vote constantly reassure me that my income is safe.
Once again the conduct of humans baffles me, as the fact that we are all stuck on this rock together seems to escape so many of us. That and the fact that when we die and we all will someday, we die with exactly what we started out with: nothing.:(
Somone said the working classes are not with what they dismissed as these "rich kids." Well that's changing now. Unions and ordinary working people are out there as well.
A genuine protest as opposed to tstagedmanaged ludic games of the tea party.
The difference between these protesters and the middle eastern peoples are that the middle eastern people fought against whimpy armies. While these people in Wall st are going up against NYC police,, the Wall street protesters don't stand a chance in hell.Quote:
Originally Posted by robertlouis
I keep hearing how the protesters are complaining about wall street influence in the gov't. Then wouldn't the common sense place to protest would be at the doorsteps of the gov'ts? You can't change a gov't policy when protesting at the wrong place. It's similar to protesting about the mobs influence in the gov't by protesting at the mobs hangouts. You don't do that, you protest at the gov't if one wants change but we will have to wait another year before that happens. No one in that crowd is going to protest against Obama.
Also,, be very careful what one wishes for,, if one wants a revolution,, they just might get one. And I can bet if a real revolution was to happen here, those protesters at wall street will probably either run away or become slaves to the new regime. Don't forget,, right wing people can make a revolution as well, and o lot of them are armed to the teeth.
My personal opinion,, these protesters are kinda like babies,, according to the videos I see of the protest, they seem to cry and complain when the police push them around,, very unlike the middle eastern protesters. Whatever their cause is,, they don't have the bottle to fight. When the cold weather comes to NYC I expect most will go back home.
“How can I tell my daughter with a straight face that Capitalism is a better system than Communism when we borrowin’ money from the Chinese, the biggest communist country on the planet??”
as quoted by one Felonius Monk
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Originally Posted by Yvonne183
See I disagree.. For one the people in the middle east were hardly fighting "whimpy" armies they were fighting regimes who have used violent force, torture just plain make you disappear for voicing dissent. So in this regard we have lot more freedom to assemble, hell its in our constitution. So these police are obstructing our Constitutional right to be able to protest things we find unjust.
As far as being in the wrong place, I think for the first time people's anger is in the right place. Turn to the media and its owned by a large corporation, 4 or 5 to be exact.. So of course they don't want any negative light shed upon the banking systems.. It will cost a $billion dollars to run for president in this upcoming election.. Is that democracy? is the most capable person of running the country really going to be elected if you need that kind of money? They only place that kind of money can come from is wall street. and they expect to get paid back..
1% of our population controls the majority of the wealth... its backwards for us to debate amongst ourselves of what the best course of ACTION is to fix a problem every one knows is there, ACTION creates RE-ACTION. its time that people learn the truth about our country..
What i dont get is why people are hating us protesters? Why do you feel its a dumb cause? Injustice of poverty is at its worst level.. The rich are richers and the poor are sliding into levels of great depression.. And our Government is bankrupt.. our global crediting rating has dropped for teh first time in american history.. The whole world knows where broke.. But americans to busy watching bad girls club, and reality tv.. :(
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Originally Posted by Yvonne183
Iyvone.. did i speell that wrong my bad... lol But yo your absolutely right, people arent ready for revolution.. When african americans were the goverment swooped in and killed and imprisoned damn near every one in the movements.. The right wing nuts are armed to the teeth and having backing of their party (GOP), because they are organized. Again the right wings only get heard not because the republican party is in line with their values, but they can organize and cause a ruckus.. Combine that with close minded racisits views.. and yeah a revolution could get scary.. Lets not forget this country fought a civil war.. and it was a lot of people who would much rather prefer blacks in chains.. :( shits real
so besides myself and ole girl who lives down the street, no one has gone out??? or supported in their own city? Before people jump to conclusions or stigmatize protesters, ask yourself where are you getting your information from?
Sool for reel,, did I spell that wrong,, my bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by soul4real
Give me a fuckin break, i said nothing about black people,,, what is going on has nothing to do with race.
The protesters are protesting the wrong people. If there is corruption on Wallstreet then the corruption is there because the feds allow it or are part of the corruption. Change can only come if the protest is directed at the right people, which I believe is the feds, right now that would be Obama cause he is the President. And Obama has taken quite a lot of money from Wall street. I know republicans do the same, then we should direct our anger towards all gov't. But I don't see that happening cause most protesters are on the same side as Obama and they won't protest against Obama. Just like you Sool for reel brought up the race card, so would Obama and the lefty wing looney protesters fear being called a racist, i am not afraid of what people call me.
Also, this protest lost a lot of validity when labor unions joined the march. labor unions give millions to politicians who keep these corrupt policies alive, the unions are just the same as big business, corrupt as hell. Also, if the labor unions are so against Wall street, why do they invest money into wall street. If the economy is so very bad with people starving and all, then isn't it just wrong that labor unions give millions to politicians and to invest their monies on wall street. Wouldn't that money be better pent giving it to the staving masses?
Still. my opinion is the protesters are just spoiled brats, the cold weather should scare the babies back home. Just listen to some of the protesters talk on videos, they sound like lunatics, not knowing what they are saying.
Yvone first off I didn't play any race card. I stated facts about mass movements in the united states.. the Civil Rights movement was a mass movement, it just happened to be African americans. How is that me playing the race card? And i hate that people use the "race card" as if its just something mythical, like the descendants of slaves who built this country, every really assimilated into the country as a whole with equality lol Yeah right.
Thats fine if thats your opinion of protesters being spoiled brats.. Your mis informed I cant be upset at you for that.. Have you been to the protest? Have you seen the people? I'm down there, i'm far from being a rich kid.. So what does that say about your generalization?
Wall Street is pimping our government, so there is no sense in going there, we want our government to know that WE KNOW the games rigged.. Sorry you will be on the wrong side of people boo ;)
Oh and I for one could care less if people protest obama.. He is just as fault as anyone else.. I agree that having to tip toe the line of race with regards to critiques of the President, are a pain.. But guess what,,, thats because Racism is still alive.. its easier to try to ignore it when you safely can forget it.
He took money from wall street that tipped his campaign with enough to win, and he paid back wall street. So yeah he is in this as well
Then why aren't the protesters protesting at places that Obama talks at. Protesters followed Bush around the country protesting at him, then why don't the protesters in Wall street protest in front of Obama? It's cause the protesters are false, they aren't true to the real causes and the real villains, they are blinded by their left wing beliefs. And in my opinion this refusal to protest Obama means the protesters are just big babies on a camping trip.Quote:
Originally Posted by soul4real
I believe wall street is bad, i believe unions are bad, I believe all news media as bad, I believe all gov't is bad, I also believe the French are bad. But if one wants people to believe that the protesters cause is true then they shouldn't pic and choose who they feel are the bad guys. It is because of this exclusion of some people as the bad guys that makes me have doubts about the real intent of the protesters.
And one doesn't have to be around the protesters to have an opinion. I don't have to visit the middle east in order to have an opinion on what goes on there, I can make an opinion from what I think is in my mind. I can see things wrong about the protest that I mentioned above and in my other posts and this gives me my right to my opinion.
I don't think anyone is suggesting the people on wall street are ever likely to go head-to head with the US armed forces. Look what happened when anti-war protestors in Ohio were confronted by the National Guard. Four kids shot dead.
And to describe Arab soldiers in Egypt as wimpy is just plain wrong. The weight and force of the demonstrators there proved irresistible - with a weakened leader easily sacrificable. The army have since stolen that revolution.
And is the army in Syria wimpy? I don't think so.
I think the point that Robertlouis was making is that what the media characterise as a popular uprising in one place can be presented as a bunch of idealistic know-nothing kids elsewhere.
I agree with everything you said... Im just happy to see this as a start.. And I support the effort, and hope it does get spread to more protests and forms of dissent. that will only happen with people informing, instead of dismissing those who are ready for action.
Yvonne wrote: " I believe wall street is bad, i believe unions are bad, I believe all news media as bad, I also believe the French are bad." ALL French? ALL media? All unions? Everyone who works on Wall Street?
C'mon Yvonne - a little more consideration before such blanket remarks.
Not everyone who works on wall street... But the system itself.. YEs.. so can you work for a corrupt system and not be bad? Exploitation and making profits at any means is part of the job description.
Oh and "all Government?" is bad.... any government anywhere? So the government formed after the American revolution as bad etc.... the complexities of the present crisis certainly bring out some anger - but simplistic responses don't help to solve anything?
Ha ha ha,,, I see some protesters are for saving the environment, yet right there in their base camp they use gas powered generators to supply energy for their laptops and other things. gas generators are one of the worst forms of producing energy, they pollute the earth but, it's OK as long as liberals do the pollution, ha ha ha. Why don't the protesters use solar panels for their energy needs,, just a bunch of phonies.
If wall street is so bad then just stop buying the products that the wall street companies sell, stop investing 401 K''s and other monies into this evil market.
I do notice lots of protesters using cameras, iphone things, and lap tops,, all corporations of wall street. If you don't like wall street corporations then stop buying their products, freakin idiots. How big of a hammer do you need to hit you on the head before you take notice and stop being a tool,,, ha ha ha you don't have a clue.
Pretty much all of them are bad. The unions are definitely corrupt. I heard many and I mean many stories from my dad about the construction unions, they are corrupt as hell. And I hear stories from other unions as well,, they are all mob controlled.Quote:
Originally Posted by Prospero
Gov't,,ha ha ha... only a fool believes there are decent politicians.
I talk about the world of today, I am not living in the past so i don't talk about past gov'ts. but I am sure some will agree that the first US gov't was bad,, just take sool for reel's posts as an example,, the gov't of the revolution was in favor of slavery.
The civil service unions in New York and New Jersey own the local politicians. They refuse to agree to even minor wage and benefit concessions. They prefer layoffs within their own membership over collective sacrifice. Even as private sector workers loose health coverage and struggle to make ends meet. To see union members take part in this protest makes it a total mockery. TWU, PBA, UFT make Wall Street look like the good guys. And that's hard to do
I've been handing out homemade organic PB&J sandwiches to the protesters, taking a bit of my personal time/money to support this movement. Heading down there right now with Harvey Van Toast
Wall Street is not 'the system.' It's just one part of it. Where are the protests against the real enemies: the Treasury and the Federal Reserve? :?
~BB~
yo this country falling apart hard. Lil Wayne said it himself, "if you aint making money in America, get the fuck out". Its basically getting to that point
You know it's bad when that gremlin say something that is true.Quote:
Originally Posted by SirCumsAlot
Haha Lil Wayne my homie. Dude's a self made millionaire. Who else u know in the rap game be putting out as much music as Wayne? Gotta admit that dude be putting in workQuote:
Originally Posted by Silcc69
I think it's quality not quantity.Quote:
Originally Posted by SirCumsAlot
Lil Wayne Jumps out of a Freezer - YouTube
I would have thought you English guys could figure out what i said. I was comparing the NYC police to Arab tanks, jet fighters and other heavy artillery and small arms. I would have thought you could see that was a joke.Quote:
Originally Posted by Prospero
If the unions want to do some really good for the suffering people, then they should go to China and organize the workers there so they don't have to work like slaves. But the unions here in the US and in Europe are too cowardly to attempt that.
I would think they value there own lives.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yvonne183
To me, that is the definition of a coward. To fear their own lives for something they should fight for.Quote:
Originally Posted by Silcc69
YYEEEEAH RIGHT! We would piss China off if we invade them. You know how huge their freaking army is????? They been an isolated country for centuries. N. Korea would love to find a reason to fight and use their nuclear weapons and some how some way, they would find a reason in our invasion to fight usQuote:
Originally Posted by Yvonne183