This headline appeared in Sunday's Observer under Nick Cohen's byline.
He'll never live it down!
No riots here. Just quiet, ever-deeper misery
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This headline appeared in Sunday's Observer under Nick Cohen's byline.
He'll never live it down!
No riots here. Just quiet, ever-deeper misery
Australian police are so politically correct that they tuck our little scum bags into bed and i suspect that the pommie cops are the same
No they don't, Russ. True, they aim for containment first and confrontation if they have to, which is by far the pragmatically most sensible approach, but the real problem in dealing with the aftermath of this will be how the courts deal with the offenders, particularly when the prisons are already full to bursting.Quote:
Originally Posted by russtafa
Are there still riots going on over there?
the Romans would have crucified them from one end of the U.K to the other as a lesson.god bless the good old days
There are recent news articles about it all. I assume so.Quote:
Originally Posted by AmyDaly
Yes, but fewer in London and more in other cities. Hopefully they're burning themselves out, if you'll excuse the pun, Amy.Quote:
Originally Posted by AmyDaly
It's all that Nikka's fault lol.
The coverage of all this is vivid. But for those of us out of the combat zone the truth comes home when you travel just a mile f and find gutted shops, terrified local businessmen and women. Some corner store people have lost everything - and were living so marginally they had no insurance. It's heartbreaking. Our Government's response is to call it "criminality pure and simple" without looking at the deeper and troubling roots of this. Yes we have to stop it now - if necessary with force majeur. But think about its causes. The lower depths who have no moral compass or sense of hope anymore. And the roots of THAT are in the values that have permeated our society since Thatcher's time... "greed is good' as proclaimed in the Wall Street movie. But mob violence always takes the same form. Shakespeare knew this long ago. He wrote in Julius Caeser of how the mob killed a writer called Sina mistaking him for a politician because he had the same first name. More recently UK mobs attacked a paediatricians home because they didn't know the difference between that and a paedophile. Crowds and power... they lose all restraint when they see everyone around them acting badly. And there has also been a loss of any respect in the wider public for the police. Most are ordinary men and women doing a dangerous and thankless task. but recently we've also seen corruption at the top (in the scandal over phone hacking and payments to the police) and thuggery in the ranks - the shooting that triggered this (excuse the pun) the police killing of the brazilian Jean de mendes on a Tube train after he was mistaken for a Jihadist, the casual killing and cover up of a newspaper vendor during the student protests and many other unreported incidents of brutality by police against young black people. The list goes on and on. But our politicians thunder that this is "criminality, pure and simple" and make to wave a big stick. it is neither pure nor simple - like much of the truth about things. it is complex and troubling.
Doesn't this stuff happen all the time at soccer games in all of those areas anyway? You guys should just have a few quick football games, and see if you can trap them all in a few stadiums.Quote:
Originally Posted by robertlouis
[quote=Nicole Dupre;983690]LOL... a bit like a mousetrap with soccer as the bait?Quote:
Originally Posted by robertlouis
Sorry to joke. It's actually pretty nauseating.
Humour is crucial sometimes. No probs.
Nicole the football season (premiership) is due to kick of this weekend in UK plus England have got a friendly game due. They are now talking about postponing a lot of the games due in part because the police can do without the extra hassle as they are already stretched.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicole Dupre
One big issue here is lack of respect. When I was a kid, and even today you feared a copper. When I was a kid at our local football ground there was a copper, a big old guy and he would parade amongst the terraces and if anyone was out for trouble he would take them out the back and have a quiet word with them, so to speak. I'm not saying that police brutality is to be encouraged but sometimes a clip around the year does gain respect.
The youth now blatantly stick their fingers up at the police and shout abuse in the safety that they know they can get away with it. When I was a kid I knew who my parents were and I would respect them and the family unit. The problem in Britain and worldwide I believe is that there are so many ferral kids from unknown backgrounds who have never been bought up in a safe family haven that this is where the contempt starts.
The other underlying thing with these riots is that there are so many kids out there involved with this who are quite frankly not very bright. I heard one of them shouting at a reporter that it was there way of getting some of their taxes back. Fuck off I don't suppose for one minute this individual had even paid any tax other than a bit of VAT on drink & fags.
A lot of these thugs just want an excuse for a night out and a good old tear up to get some free trainers & TV's and just make a nuisance of themselves for the sake of it. Ignorant fucks!!
I heard a kid being interviewed. He boasted about stealing stuff and the reporter asked him how he'd feel if his own home was trashed and he said he'd be outraged. No joining up of any dots here.
Any inquest has to look into underlying causes, including social deprivation etc, and the appropriate action taken. But it is really hard right now to feel anything but anger and contempt for these little fuckers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Prospero
Punish now, rehabilitate later.
Fuck, I sound like David Cameron. Without the accent, obviously. :whistle:
Amusing to see the spluttering Ed sec last night on Newsnight sounding like Colonel Blimp though. Its all sturm und drang to the Tories - hit em with a bigger stick and it'll all be over It's got to be put down hard - but afterwards, later, there HAS to be some deep thinking about why it happened. Or it will happen again.
Yep, and probably in the already overcrowded prisons - another powder keg.Quote:
Originally Posted by Prospero
or let this thing go on happening until society snaps and their are some very very harsh punishments for the offenders actions .these riots if not checked could mean the reshaping of society's laws and what is tolerated
If you would have read my other post on this thread there you will see I gave an example on how guns would have helped. if you don't want to go back and read it I will say it again.Quote:
Originally Posted by robertlouis
When I lived in the Bronx there was a blackout and looting in 1977. Many stores were destroyed by the thugs. But some store owners, especially those owners along Westchester Ave, Arthur Ave, Took shotguns and stood or sat in chairs in front of their stores. The shotguns were never used but these stores were not attacked by the thugs
You English have every right to run your country the way you want, if that means no one can own guns, so be it. But I just gave you an example on how guns do protect. You can give many examples of the horrors of guns but guns do protect people.
You have just witnessed how helpless your police are when an emergency arises, it takes days before they can react. It is very similar here in the US in some places like Baltimore, the police aren't always able to answer a call for help and that is not under a riot condition. Here in the US the police are an "after the fact" force. they are no way able to protect anyone in an emergency, the people have to do it themselves or they will be harmed or die.
So, all you English, get out your brooms and clean the mess that the thugs created,, that'll show the thugs that you guys mean business, ha ha ha
:Bowdown:Yvonne for general of the tgirl army
Water Canons and Plartic bullets aprooved. Well done but that only took 4 days of riots
Scotland are now on alert so be careful up there :)
Chloe x
http://www.prisonplanet.com/claim-yo...art-riots.html
Violence in Leicester after “journalists” tried to pay off kids, according to Tweets
Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet.com
Wednesday, August 10, 2011
As massive unrest plaguing the United Kingdom spread from London to other cities last night, claims emerged that individuals calling themselves journalists were offering to pay youths to start riots, suggesting an effort to provocateur some of the violence.
According to Tweets sent by people who were in the city of Leicester last night trying to secure their communities, kids were being told to cause mayhem in return for cash. Leicester was hit by violence later that night, as youths attacked buildings in the city center.
“There were swarms of hooded Asian, black and white youths in their 20s, and some as young as 12, being hounded out of Leicester city centre at around midnight,” nightclub owner James Cockerill told the BBC.
I would rather be Field Marshall, like my hero, The King of Scotland Idi Amin.Quote:
Originally Posted by russtafa
Funny thing,,, rioters in Libya are called protesters and protesters in the UK are called rioters.
Proper prior planning prevents piss poor performance.
How can you be a MEGA city in what is already one of the most locked down nations on earth and not have a police force with proper training enough to put down a riot early?
Yes but...Quote:
Originally Posted by sexyasianescorts
Water cannons available "on 24 hours notice".
"Sorry rioters, we haven't got the cannons just now, can you come back same time tomorrow?"
Wanker politicians.
Sorry Yvonne, I hadn't read your earlier post which puts it all into context.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yvonne183
I take your point, but in light of our present gun laws, which I personally hope remain every bit as draconian as they do now in spite of these riots, many shopkeepers are organising themselves into unofficial response units wielding baseball bats, coshes and (this is England after all) cricket bats!
There hasn't been any official response to this that I've heard so far, but if the police are too stretched to defend property, businesses and livelihoods, then it's difficult to see what else people can do apart from stand back and watch their businesses burn down. The test will come of and when the police decide to take action against someone who uses what's seen as undue force in protecting their property. That's when the balloon will really go up.
And it's actually heartening to see the real communities get together to clear up the mess. Don't laugh at these people.
And finally, sweety, I'm not English....
Nobody could have realistically anticipated violence on this scale spreading at such a speed - the last time we experienced something like this was exactly 30 years ago. You don't staff up for a once in a generation possibility.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hebrew Hammer
And what makes us a "locked down" society? The lack of access to guns?
I'd far rather live here, thank you.
Ha ha ha,, Scottish-English, same thing, lol Come to the US and you would be neither Scottish or English, you'd be classified as other. If you go to New York you'd be Irish. haQuote:
Originally Posted by robertlouis
I don't laugh at the people themselves, I just laugh at the foolishness. The exact same thing would happen in liberal areas of Baltimore, instead of fighting for their property, they would have a wine and cheese party of love and understanding. Thugs fear a few things, being beaten up, or being killed, they don't fear the police, they don't fear jail and they certainty don't fear a broom sweep up party. They will be back cause your laws and lifestyle creates their behavior,, they will be back it's now you're future.
And for crying out loud,, am I right, are you really Scottish? The same guys who marched right into battle playing drums and bagpipes. Why the fear of guns from such a tough lot like you guys. Why don't the people use a bit of that old Scotch toughness and kick the thugs asses? The Scotch, Welsh, English, Irish decedents here in redneckville wouldn't sit back and wait 4 days for the police to arrive. I might not like how rednecks show hate towards me, but I am much more safer living in a redneckish area than some inner city liberal areas. Despite what one thinks, the rednecks do stand together when challenged and I gotta give them credit for that, unlike most city liberals who think the police and laws will protect them, sometimes liberals seem to live in a dream world when it comes to personal safety.
Mass surveillance, detention without trial for citizens.... and it doesn't take a massive amount of resources to have your officers annually trained in a refresher course on how to handle this type of situation. The hire ups of the police force acted too little too late. An increased presence of force early on could have easily kept this this from evolving into the mass reason to riot that it's become. The mob mentality of citizens who otherwise wouldn't have normally joined in on the rioting was encouraged by a lack of commitment from any significant reactionary force. The metropolitan police just dug their heads in the sand and hoped it would all blow over.Quote:
Originally Posted by robertlouis
Yvonne, from your perspective and from your experience you are absolutely right, because your laws, culture and history allow for citizens' armed response to things like this. Ours doesn't, and it's too big a switch to start changing it suddenly, especially in response to one series of incidents like this. We do things differently here, and on balance that's how I'd like it to stay.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yvonne183
As for community tidying, these are hard, working-class communities, not effete liberals (like me lol) who are showing their ability to pull together in defiance of right-wing media declarations that it is their youngsters that have caused the destruction in the first place. All power to them.
OK, I admit that I live in a small rural community and am therefore very unlikely to experience any of the mayhem of the last few days and nights in the cities, but I have never and will never subscribe to the "stop violence, arm the police" rhetoric.
As a Glaswegian - and few cities in the world have a harder reputation - I'll stand up to anyone with my fists, but I'm not going to carry a knife or worse still a gun under any circumstances, and I mean any.
And for the record, knowing that there are almost as many guns in private ownership as there are people in the US doesn't make me feel safer when I travel to your country. Quite the opposite.
i say bring back corporal punishment like Singapore where their are no riots and never will be any riots
I have family in England. So I am following it. England has a lot of problems. Just like America. And every other country.
I think everyone wants to live in a utopian society. But life is just too complex for that -- :(
The English musician Robert Smith [of The Cure -- pretty pic below] said he wishes he could end the blind intolerance that exists between the races and religions.
A lot of problems in England stem from racism. Especially institutional racism. And, too, a hard right political agenda. The last thing, in my opinion, England needs is cuts. I mean, like America, the problem is a dearth or lack of demand. Either demand comes from private business or the government. But business isn't spending. So government has to pick up the slack.
ben most of these people rioting were on the dole?one young scum bag was reported as saying we are getting our taxes back,i doubt this wanker has ever paid taxes or done any sort of work in his life, paid or charity
russtafa, I think... I hope it's a small number. I mean, most people are decent and moral. (Actually, I heard that a lot of these looters are gang members. Criminals. Again, it's a small fraction of society. But they're criminals.Quote:
Originally Posted by russtafa
I mean, why attack and destroy small businesses? Does a mindless mob mentality take over? These criminals should be caught and prosecuted.
It's disgusting to attack and destroy a small Mom & Pop store. It's sick. If these people have grievances then they should organize and peacefully take to the streets. That's how change happens. Societal change -- for the good -- comes through peaceful demonstrations. I mean, the LGBT movement has done it -- and continues to do it.
But I don't think these thugs have a political cause. I think a lot of them simply want Nike sneakers -- or trainers, as they say in jolly old England... :)
The Republican Ron Paul has talked about the problem of inflation. He said a lot of problems are stemming from the devaluation of the (American) dollar and the rise in prices around the world. I think he has hit the nail on the head. And then the government, as Ron Paul pointed out, prints money to get itself out of the problem, well, it only makes it worse. Ron Paul is sensible. That is why he'll never be President -- ha ha ha! Plus he understands economics. Unlike Obama and Bush before him....
Are there people there as bad as those maggot kids from Harry Brown? I wanted to empty an MP5 at the movie screen when I saw the film. Decent people getting abused by street urchins is never good.
Yes, there are some. But they're by no means a majority.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino Velvet
Just curious. They were mean to Michael Caine though. I don't play that shit either. Michael Caine is a good man.Quote:
Originally Posted by robertlouis
http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l1...c7qbo1_400.jpg
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben
Darcus Howe always has an interesting, not to say very provocative, stance on these issues. But he's well away from the general consensus of UK black community opinion.