Well, I've always figured that if you have all the fringes pissed off, you're probably doing it right.
I think what really bothers me most about all this BS rhetoric is the resurection of Joe McCarthy.
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Well, I've always figured that if you have all the fringes pissed off, you're probably doing it right.
I think what really bothers me most about all this BS rhetoric is the resurection of Joe McCarthy.
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Originally Posted by TSCURIOUS
Wow - harsh words! If he is this, what was his predecessor??? lol
See, this is what happens when you watch too much Faux News. ACORN was guilty of having some of their workers illegally register voters, of which ACORN reported THEMSELVES.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kramer
They were not charged with assisting people to vote who weren't registered.
Subtle difference, and yet all the difference in the world.
'Despicable','back stabbing sellout','disgrace', etc..??
For all of you who decided to get 'interested' in politics because of BHO, please stay involved and informed when the re-thugs get back into office and hold them under the same microscope.
As for Kramer, turn on your brain and leave it there.
If Obama was a communist( the biggest joke about BHO's presidency there is), he wouldn't have all these corporate giveaways to the healthcare industry and Wall Street investment banks.
And trust me, knowing someone as a youth does not make you...THEM.
I've had plenty of life 'mentors' as a teen who've lived totally different life experiences than me, but their lives weren't ever mine.
A representative democracy by its very nature is 'socialist' in some sense, but that doesn't make it a totalitarian dictatorship.
The sheeple are still being led over the cliff by multi-millionaires like Limbaugh, Beck, and Hannity who could give a shit if the country impodes.
Trust, is the daily gets reckless on the streets, those folks are LEAVING the country.
Do you really think he's that much smarter than Bush? Both of them, intelligence-wise seem to be pretty average.Quote:
Originally Posted by tenn2008
Bush got into Exeter, Yale undegrad and Harvard Law simply because of his last name.
Not saying that Obama's race didn't play some small factor in his academic career, but for the most part what he accomplished was because of his work ethic and what God blessed him with between his ears.
If you want to see an example of the man's intelligence quotient, go take a look at Obama's healthcare summit in February attended by 36 congressman, half of whom believed they would effectively make BHO look like an ill-prepared, ignorant fool.
When it was over, the GOP decided NEVER to televise such a meeting again, because it made Obama look brilliant in comparison to his opponents who thought they could bombard him with more stats and info than he was prepared to refute.
Didn't happen.
Bush was a pilot and got grades in the 70s at Yale. BHO never released any of his grades so it's hard to get a real grip on his intelligence. Bush was an awful public speaker, but he didn't relay on teleprompters like BHO does. Both have intelligent parents, BHO's mother was clearly very smart just as GHWB was. I tend to believe that they're pretty similar in terms of intelligence (above average probably have IQs of 115-120) and that they're both not smart enough to be effective presidents.Quote:
Originally Posted by giovanni_hotel
This whole thing is a joke.
The real meat of the damage was done during the Clinton admin. He is the one that signed NAFTA in 94 effectively allowing corps to relocate to Mexico and the like. His admin tweaked the Community Reinvestment Act in 95 allowing lower standards/qualifications for home buyers. He signed the WTO treaty with China, lowering tariffs, and allowing them to become the mega export giant they are today. Walmart does 30 billion in commerce annually with them alone. He is the guy whos admin passed the Glass-Steagall reform, allowing banks to swallow other banks, becoming to large to allow to fail. Clinton hired Franklin Raines to head up Fanny Mae/Freddie Mac.
Whoever told you guys that those were Republican doings is wrong. That shit happened in the 90's, and came to a boiling head in the last 5 years. Barney Frank and Nancy Pelosi were at the forefront of the opposition against regulating the housing market.
YouTube- Barney Frank in 2005: What Housing Bubble?
There is Frank talking about no housing bubble in 05. There is plenty more out there. Educate yourselves.
Then when the market collapsed, these guys were all pretending like they weren't in opposition of a reform prior to the fallout. The point is the Dems were largely responsible for the crumble recently, and all the news outlets hated Bush so much, they swept all this info under the rug, and that's sad.
For me, I am worried where Obama is trying to take us. We seem to be speeding towards socialism, while most countries are heading the other direction. As a guy who dated a person from a socialist country, I can tell you that it isn't all it's cracked up to be, although they don't know any better, cause they have ALWAYS been like that.
For example, if you make 52k in germany, they are gonna take 42% of your income off the top for taxes. Then the sales tax there is 19% for items that are not considered food. Think about that for a moment, and think about the fact that you would be paying 24% taxes here, and only 7-8.5% sales tax depending where you live. All you get in return is health care, for your extra layout in cash. I don't know about you, but I could buy the best healthcare policy known to man for an extra 900 a month.
By the way. I vote independent. I am not a Dem or Repub.
They're both complicit in our collapse. If you look at graphs showing the Reagan and Bush tax cuts you'll see that there's a corresponding reduction in federal revenue, thus an increase in the budget defecit. This means that we had to borrow in order to pay for all federal expenditures. Add a couple pointless wars, relaxed standards on mortgages, and Clinton decimating our manufacturing base and you get a complete collapse of the US economy, which we're seeing now. There will not be a recovery, ever.Quote:
Originally Posted by goku
ALL modern presidents have used teleprompters, even the 'great communicator', Ronald Reagan. To say that Obama uses them more is just a bias against him.
IF you have a problem with teleprompters, I can't wait to see what you think of 'Mama Grizzly' who has to write talking point inside her palm to remember what she's going to say.
And BTW, being an effective President has more to do with judgement and wisdom that raw brain power.
In this regard, I can't ever give Dubya high marks.
And tell me, how many U.S. Presidents have released their academic undegrad transcripts???
As for BHO and his 'use of teleprompters', if you get a chance take a look at the 90 minute healthcare summit he held in B'more with those GOP congressman; Obama had not one note and did not read from a teleprompter and knew MORE about every aspect of the healthcare debate than all the republicans did.
Also, awful public speakers rarely become president. To think that someone who lacked one of the essential qualities needed for a politician, the ability to effectively communicate, was ever elected POTUS is still a mystery to me.
Stutters and people who butcher the English language don't usually make it to the Oval Office.
Imagine if Obama had 'grammar malfunctions' at the rate that Dubya did...??!!
He'd be impeached on general principle!lol
The quality of life for the average German IMO is much higher than it is in the U.S.Quote:
Originally Posted by goku
Healthcare AND free education through college undergrad and postgrad.
Yeah, the economic collapse started under Clinton, but Dubya poured gasoline of the fire by giving U.S. corporations tax incentives to relocate their manufacturing overseas and having the Fed lowering the funds rate to 1.75% and the key interest rate to 1%, making easy credit available to everyone.
But if we're gonna say who deserves the most blame, Dubya or Clinton, it's definitely the Clinton administration that set the table for this mess.
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Originally Posted by giovanni_hotel
Who told you that everything was free there? Most colleges are state funded, but the admissions qualifications for that are very difficult. There are still many schools that charge tuition, and there are others fees that have to be paid. Over there, you are just ass out if you are a mediocre student.
I agree 100%. How do you think this all ends?Quote:
Originally Posted by giovanni_hotel
Personally, I think we're going to have a period like Japan in '91 when their asset prices collapsed, followed by their stock market crash and a huge debt crisis.
It took Japan nearly ten years for their economy to recover, commonly referred to as the 'Lost Decade'.
IMO it will be more than two Presidential terms before the economy rebounds.
If we don't find a way to bring back manufacturing jobs to the U.S., I don't know if we ever fully recover.
There are scary parallels to what we are currently experiencing now and what occurred to Japan in the 1990s.
The GOP is talking tough, but really, privately, I bet they don't wanna take this mess on in 2013 and have this crap sandwich shoved down their throats.
There is no 'quick fix'.
However, I keep forgetting that U.S. businesses and corporations are sitting on billions
( or is it TRILLIONS?) of dollars in assets they refuse to invest in jobs and infrastructure, apparently because they 'fear' Obama's economic direction.
If they began to spend this capital, then yeah, a full recovery could happen in about 5 years.
Maybe they're waiting until a POTUS they like, (see Republican), gets voted into office.lol
The difference though is that Japan remained a strong exporter during their lost decade. The US quality of life is linked to the availability of cheap consumer goods, which is made possible by our credit. The fact that we still have a AAA bond rating proves only how flawed the rating system is. The probability of a sovereign debit default is 100%. I think the US in 10 years will look a lot like Argentina.Quote:
Originally Posted by giovanni_hotel
I haven't read this whole thread and I'm quite ambivalent to what Obama has/has not done, but I find it funny that some are talking about intelligence. You guys do realize that the American voter overwhelmingly does not vote for academicians, but "guys they can have a beer with"---- that's part of our problem. A truly smart guy will never get elected, unless he's from the south/has good ol' country boy roots.
He has done a good job so far. Not perfect but, given the disastrous situation he walked into, thanks W, things are on the right track. I do wish he would stop with all the attempts at bipartisanship, the right will never accept him so he should forget about trying to please them and get on to the business of cleaning up Bush's mess and getting this country back on track.
I'm already quite beyond the point of accepting the false left-right paradigm that you seem to be stuck in intellectually, but thanks for the advice, pedestrian though it may be. My advice is that you learn the words tu quoque fallacy.Quote:
Originally Posted by giovanni_hotel
I think the quote, you cited was mixed up with another quote. I looked up "tu quoque". But who are you saying is using these argument. And if the think the poster is stuck in a left-right paradigm, what do you think about the Limbaugh's, the Becks, and others who make livings based on this?Quote:
Originally Posted by SmashysmashY
I do believe that there is not that much difference between the political parties, but some of that comes from the influence of lobbiests, who have direct access to our legislators.
What I think about those people has nothing to do with this subject and never having watched those programs, I don't know enough about them to comment on that even if I was inclined.Quote:
Originally Posted by yodajazz
What he said was a fallacy of relevance because it's not an attempt to state premises that prove or disprove a conclusion, but instead appeal to one's emotions.
If I claim that the president has committed some offense and you reply by injecting into the discussion the fact that others have as well, which is exactly what he did, then it's merely a ploy. You cannot justify or defend one's wrong-doing by claiming that an opponent has committed a similar offense. Your crimes are not canceled out by the crimes of others unless we are to accept the notion that two wrongs make a right.
If that's your position then guard it, but the rationale behind it is illogical. Now if you're saying I'm wrong that's different. I very well could be. Maybe the president has not betrayed his constituency in favor of corporate interests, but no one seems to be making that argument.
As the idiots administration goes down in flames, listen for a faint "But Bush.......!"
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Originally Posted by goku
Please do your research about the "housing bubble" you DONT really know what your talking about.
People that blame this whole thing on banks lending money to "minorities" are idiots.
Im so tired of hearing UNINFORMED ignorance repeated.....read a fucking book for christsakes.
Again, I think you have to go back to Aug. 15, 1971 to find the real culprit here. That was the day that Richard Nixon, by executive fiat, debased the dollar. It ended 25 years of stabile growth & started the inflationary spiral that we're still caught up in, even during the recurring recessions. The purchasing power of the currency is now less than 10% of what it was, & it's all artificial. There's no standards. There's no way to judge value, & the rate of currency decline (inflation) is set by the whims of international speculators who aren't regulated by anybody. Every currency in the world is in decline, & "FOREX" is just where you bet on the rate. It's not even real money. It's all derivatives. You have to use derivatives for any kind of international trade because you don't know what the exchange rate might be tomorrow. Whenever somebody mentions "the value of a dollar" anymore, the first thing that comes to mind is "compared to what?".
What to do? Simpliify. Start negotiating a new agreement on the lines of Bretton Woods, without the gold peg. Can't go bck to a gold standard because there's no reserves. I think that was the fatal flaw in Bretton Woods to begin with. But if you fix the exchange rates by pegging the currencies to each other, inflation could become manageable. Right now, it's not, & you can blame everything that's happening today on the financial industry trying to hedge against it.
Germany is the world's second largest exporter. Yes folks, they export more stuff than we do - not per capita, but total. Their goods are like the anti-China, they're high quality stuff. My prediction is that they'll leave the EU by 2015. They simply don't need them.Quote:
Originally Posted by giovanni_hotel
all the capitalists want to set up in china wich damages the west so badly and strengthens chinas economy and worst still military
Agreed.........Quote:
Originally Posted by hippifried
if america started to stop its rich from buying expensive foriegn cars it might help and importing cheap labour
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solitary Brother
It seems I know more than you think, because it was a combination of all of the above that got us in this mess. I just cited the bills passed, and (I believe) the years also.
The loans people drew up were the problem, but that had been going on since the 90's, and even the Bush admin tried unsuccessfully in both 03 and 05 to regulate that sector. They were met with harsh opposition from the Pelosi/Frank camp both times.
Couple that with people losing their jobs to outsourcing, and you have a recipe for disaster.
Now factor in that the banks that sold people the loans had grown to the point were they were too big to fail. You had bank after bank swallowing each other since the signing of that bill in 98.
People didn't default on their bad loans 6 months in. They had those loans for a few years, until the rates kicked up, and then they defaulted after awhile. Which means the meat of the damage started way before W got in office.
I don't think I said minorities were the problem.
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Originally Posted by russtafa
What made America great was it didn't have to go outside of it's borders for anything. We made our own cars. Provided for our own oil. Grew our own crops, and manufactured our own products.
Slowly but surely we have signed away all of those things. When you are doing all those things it means that the country is working, and everyone is making money. Now we are a country of middle men, pushing papers around on a desk for products we don't make here.
As for Kramer, turn on your brain and leave it there.
If Obama was a communist( the biggest joke about BHO's presidency there is), he wouldn't have all these corporate giveaways to the healthcare industry and Wall Street investment banks.
And trust me, knowing someone as a youth does not make you...THEM.
I've had plenty of life 'mentors' as a teen who've lived totally different life experiences than me, but their lives weren't ever mine
Hey giovanni hotel..............so you say his mentor when he was young and the fact that he was a commie means nothing? Then how about Rev Wright and the racist phony religion called "black liberation theology" that the lying bastard claims he knows nothing about because he was deaf for 20 years?! Does he get a pass in your biased eyas there too!!! Wake up and see the truth!
Please go educate yourself...please.Quote:
Originally Posted by goku
Thank you.
I've had coaches that spent time in prison who were HUGE influences on my life, doesn't make me a future felon for knowing them.
Reverend Wright has hours upon hours of sermons on DVD, yet don't you think if he was preaching some insanity from the pulpit for decades, BHO's opponents would have been able to pull more than a snippet where he says, 'God damn America!!'??
20 such clips would have doomed Obama's presidential aspirations.
Like most fire and brimstone preachers, Rev. Wright went off the reservation sometimes, but for the most part he was a mainstream Baptist style preacher.
Oprah Winfrey for years was a member of his church, for chrissakes, and you know how she LOVES white folks to death!!lol
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Originally Posted by Solitary Brother
Hello friend,
I just wanted to point out that you say the same thing every time someone says something you don't agree with.
Yours Truly,
PomonaCA
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Originally Posted by giovanni_hotel
The liberal media hid everything about the bum so most voters didnt know what they were getting. Now he and congress pass bills without telling us everything that in it.
And I know Oprah is a phony that hates whites as much as any black person does. She is a phony too, but the media loves her act!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solitary Brother
lol
I can tell you don't get the big picture. You need to do your own homework. Meanwhile China is the old US, and getting richer by the minute. Meanwhile we will keep making bullshit excuses as to why we can't get the job done, and keep building on our "sense of entitlement" society.
I gave you the raw reasons as to why our society continues on a decline, and you say go educate yourself. Thanks for clearing that up. Notice you are the only one arguing this. I am a college graduate, and I have traveled abroad. I see what other countries are doing, what works, and what doesn't.
As old fashioned as it sounds, America needs to go back to building American and buying American. It's the reason wars always made us a richer country. Now that we are even getting our defense products/weapons from overseas, not even starting a war will pull us out of a recession. I think YOU need to do your homework SB, real talk.
It was the liberal media that kept replaying those clips of Rev. Wright. You think Faux would have sat on more damning video of Rev. Wright just to benefit BHO's campaign??Quote:
Originally Posted by Kramer
But you are right, ALL Black folks HATE all white, brown, Asian, Euro and Spanish people.
Please don't tell anybody.:praying:
a crashing economy occurred during the prior administration.Quote:
Originally Posted by THEbottom
runaway unemployment began 14 months before Obama was sworn in.
You have every right to call him whatever you want, but if we're going to debate his record we need to get the right sequence of events
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Originally Posted by hippifried
Exactly , all this unemployment and the economy slowly but surely going down the tubes goes back that far.
Except most people think it was Bush's or Obama's doing or ineptitude. Trouble is, most people can not see more than 5 feet in front of them or more than 5 minutes ahead, Everything is about NOW NOW NOW or fairly recent.
America's adherence to an outdated capitalistic system is actually what has been causing the gradual decline since the seventies, Factories have been going overseas since that time.
The American Way has actually become very Un-American for the current/future generations of America. A company surviving has actually become more important than keeping the jobs in the states. Exactly how American capitalism states it should be. Make your competition fail, and you do whatever you have to for survival.
That stuff was good when the USA was riding the high wave of a ruined economic japan, germany, europe, and china after ww2, but now it's redundant and came back to bite us in the ass. The glory days are over.
America is going to fall harder, before Obama or any president within a 10 year period (just guessing) really fixes anything. Right now everything is just patch ups.
Obama is not better or worse than anyone recently. McCain would've looked the same, If clinton had run again, it would've been the same.
The root of it goes back to the 70's , like hippifried said. Good call man.