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Most tgirls I've met relish in their femininity... I think its why many guys like tgirls, many are more girly than any gg...
As for looking less feminine with a cock?... I don't think so.
Procreation (though its likely the subconscious motivation for being turned on) is the last thing on my mind.
I am of the Benjamin school primarily, thus I feel that there are "true" andQuote:
Originally Posted by Nicole Dupre
untrue transsexuals. I would also daresay that I feel that some women
have transitioned solely for economic reasons, and some purely for
sexual ones.
For me it was primarily to correct a mistake, though in some instances itQuote:
Do you feel that you had SRS because it corrected a mistake, or because it just made life easier?
has made life easier.
As to you and Phobun, I must admit that when any two or more posters
are engaing in non-productive discourse that I attempt to avoid those
threads.
I will say that I feel that alll posters, irregardless of their gender should
be respectful of the other and not engage in ad hominem attacks.
nicht du angelaQuote:
Originally Posted by Coroner
sie ist ein weiblicher kinderloser geschiedener evangelischer ossi
also perfekt für die union
Again, no, in this context of 3rd gender, or any actually. - By the by, this is copied and pasted :P :Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicole Dupre
The terms third gender and third sex describe individuals who are considered to be neither women nor men, as well as the social category present in those societies who recognize three or more genders.
The state of being neither male nor female may be understood in relation to the individual's biological sex, gender role, gender identity, or sexual orientation. To different cultures or individuals, a third sex or gender may represent an intermediate state between men and women, a state of being both (such as "the spirit of a man in the body of a woman"), the state of being neither (neuter), the ability to cross or swap genders, or another category altogether independent of male and female. This last definition is favored by those who argue for a strict interpretation of the "third gender" concept.
The term has been used to describe Hijras of India and Pakistan,[1] Fa'afafine of Polynesia, and Sworn virgins of the Balkans,[2] among others, and is also used by many of such groups and individuals to describe themselves.
The term "third" is usually understood to mean "other"; some anthropologists and sociologists have described fourth,[3] fifth,[4] and many[5] genders.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_gender
Well, neither are a lot of people. But ok. Let's say they aren't planning. You could say that becoming a nun shows lack of planning. Just kinda letting God sort it out for you. Same thing with becoming an actress, or even an artist. I'm not sure that transwomen are quite in the downward spiral you'te portraying them to be in.Quote:
Originally Posted by peggygee
Is it having a penis that's the cause of GID, or is it living as a male? And do you think that those people not suffering from GID are actually "autogynephiliacs", and not "true" transsexuals?Quote:
Originally Posted by peggygee
Right, but you realize that this is a forum mostly about chicks with dicks. So it's not like you'd be preaching to the choir. It's a bit against the grain. Not necessarily a bad thing, but you know it's a bit contra.Quote:
Originally Posted by peggygee
Again, this is somewhat in the ballpark of true and untrue, right? Some are a 3rd gender, but you aren't? Is it a philosophical or biological difference? Or both?Quote:
Originally Posted by peggygee
I prefer men to women, mate wise, I have been involved with womenQuote:
Originally Posted by Nicole Dupre
before and could see myself again, with the right one.
Comparing pussies to dicks, is a bit like comparing apples to oranges,
though I will say that for me I find a vagina more aethetically different,
they are like snowflakes with two being alike, wheras once you've seen
a bunch of cocks you pretty much have seen them all.
Then too I love my pussy, it looks great, feels great, smells great,
can't say that I taste it oftem, but have been told it tastes great. I had a
nice cock, it was large, looked nice, but it wasn't the right thing for me.
And yes there are many beautiful transwomen. Do cocks look good on
them? For the most part i don't really look, though there are some that
I could see myself kicking it with if our personalities clicked.
So going as far as dividing TS into true and untrue, or if they're in it for the money and the sexual rush or not; those are pretty cut and dry issues for you. Heated debates over such things are simply unnecessary and non-productive. lolQuote:
Originally Posted by peggygee
And you agree with him, but you think he should simply patronize me, the way you patronize "untrue" TS. lol
While we're at it, do you see any untrue TS on this forum, or would you rather not mention names? ;) lol
Btw, that must be kinda neat, being a true TS. Kinda kicks it up a notch. lol
I'm going to have to get back with you on the morrow, IQuote:
Originally Posted by Nicole Dupre
need to turn in, you know us middle-aged women need
our beauty sleep.
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2...llersredux.jpg
So pussies are like snowflakes, but all cocks look the same?!? Mother Mary and Joseph!!! lol ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by peggygee
That sounds kinda non-gay TS ie. untrue. ;) Have you ever turned yourself on by looking in the mirror? ;)
Thank you, Good night. :)
Why condemn someone over a silly academic theory... so what if anyone chooses to believe differently than you? It does not make them a fascist or racist as you just ridiculously implied. So what if someone chooses not to subscribe to any formal theory at all, and instead just trusts his or her intuition that you're a nutty phony?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicole Dupre
In spite of your claims that you're going to be leaving this forum except for occasional promotion, you're unable to keep your word, and you're probably on here more than anyone else. Why do you seem to be so dependent on HA forum? How close are you with your extended family now that you're older and have gone home, and do they wonder if the escort business in Florida flopped? I wonder if the real issue is you and your bitter loneliness as you enter middle-age. I worry that emotional abuse and dysfunctional relationships are what you've known, and that is why you spend your time here attacking others. You might find happiness if you redirected your venom and rage into more productive uses.
Go ahead and call me a fag, latent homosexual or whatever pleases you.
Your pathetic epithets do much to discredit yourself as a sentient, warm and well-adjusted transwoman.
Don't downplay the single biggest divide and conquer strategy to ever be used AGAINST transsexuals. And why bother throwing around such terminology in the first place if it's "silly academic theory"? It seemed like a good idea to you at the time? Please tell us which it is for you. "Silly academic theory" or "intuition"? Don't talk out of both sides of your mouth.Quote:
Originally Posted by phobun
Sorry, but the "failed escort business" theory is not holding weight. I know it would make you feel better if it were true, but it simply isn't. I moved back here primarily because south Florida is a culturally and intellectually bankrupt vacuum, but keep guessing if it makes you feel better. And I will post here as often or as little as I want. You won't be seeing any grandiose departure posts from me. You're simply disappointed because "I'm getting bored an/or sick of this place" is hardly a promise which you can personally find solace in. Again, that was more wishful thinking on your part. I am a pre-op TS with things to promote. You're a declared dissident of the pre-op TS sex worker industry. The person who's presence here is inconsistent with their words is you, not me.Quote:
Originally Posted by phobun
Thanks. I will. lolQuote:
Originally Posted by phobun
"Sentient and warm? lol I'm an outspoken cunt. However, I'm neither stupid nor inhumane.Quote:
Originally Posted by phobun
Your every post questions another person's sexuality, and/or "true" or "untrue" transsexual status. So, whether you like my tone or not, it does nothing to change the fact that I am the altruist here and you're the ideoligical pariah. Read my posts, and re-read them. Get sick of them. And then choke on them. I find a great sense of pride in challenging your hater tactics. You don't belong here, and don't you fucking dare forget it. 8)
I think what's most ironic about this whole convo is, I've wanted SRS since I first heard about it at the age of 8. I only started reconsidering it about two years ago. lol
And the biggest reason I see to not get SRS is, there's hardly anything practical about it. I now see it more as an obligatory act, if not a completely superficial one, than as a defining one. I wanted a vagina because I learned to hate the body part which robbed me of my gender identity at age 2.
When my mom explained to me that the thing I peed with was some sort of deal-breaker, I found it to be absurd and wholly unfair. But life is hardly ever fair, and I now see my penis as nothing to base my gender status on. It's society's issue, not mine. So let them catch up.
And God knows society as a whole has had it's collective head up it's ass before. Conventional thinking and "intuition" is what led Germany down the path of the Final Solution. So much for letting others do your thinking for you.
This is just more paranoia.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicole Dupre
No theory is necessary to see you for who you are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicole Dupre
Heh, and New Jersey is a cultural and intellectual center. Regardless though, I hope you have found support there near your family in NJ, and I wish you success as an escort during your middle-age.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicole Dupre
Oh, but we essentially have, multiple times, including here, here and here. I don't care if you leave or not, but you're either here to promote yourself as you claimed, or to bitterly attack others and call guys fags, as you do. Your claim is mutually exclusive of your actions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicole Dupre
Right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicole Dupre
Declared? More paranoia.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicole Dupre
No, as was clear in your attack on Peggygee, you're the one with issues about operative status. There is a home here for post-op transsexuals and guys who like them here, regardless of whether that makes you uncomfortable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicole Dupre
Which goes to the heart of jcinva's point. The flip side of your silly names is the implication those names have for you. Further, if you are willing to unload "fag" at guys here, that is not consistent with your claims to want to be a successful escort. What sort of desparate masochist would pay for such a personality?.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicole Dupre
Which is not to say that your intelligent or humane. But you are clearly bitter and angry. Why? Redirect those demons toward more productive uses. There's no glory to be earned by rehashing the Bailey wars, or calling guys fags, on a porn forum.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicole Dupre
You're projecting, again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicole Dupre
Heh. I hope that someday you find happiness and inner peace.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicole Dupre
Oh lord, this thread is clearly reaching a point of diminishing marginal returns now that Godwin's Law has been invoked.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicole Dupre
As I said before, I hope you can someday find happiness and inner peace.
Wow! Bravo! Nichole. I like what you said. Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicole Dupre
How kind of you. When all else fails, patronize? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by phobun
Oh, and if Manhattan and the surrounding suburbs are not up to progressive speed and lack enough culture, where pray tell are you taking up space? ;) lol
Have another idelogical coffin nail. It's on me. lol
"Uncomfortable" around post ops? lol Wake up and smell the coffee. One of my dearest and best friends is a post op TS, and she's emotionally light years beyond Peggy imho. She wouldn't waste her time on a pre-op porn forum doing public relations for post ops for a minute. She transitioned in her early teens, and had srs well over 10 years ago. If she invites me to her home for Christmas dinner, don't you think we'd know each other well enough to be more than "comfortable" with one another's value systems?Quote:
Originally Posted by phobun
Please answer one direct question. Have you ever had a close relationship of any kind with any type of TS, pre or post?
If you start saying stuff like that, some of the people on this board would likely start saying you hate late transitioners, as a few people have accused me of in the past.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicole Dupre
I do have to agree with this paragraph for the most part. NHS in the UK only seems to be capable of helping those who are late midlife crisis transitioners. How many younger girls have we seen online in the last 5 yrs who lamented about having to go private because "NHS wanted them to be fulltime for 2 years before going on HRT" or "had 5 year wait times to see the local therapist for a diagnosis"? If NHS is a success, I'd hate to see what a failure is.
But I am intrigued on one point, are you saying you don't think trans medical care should ever be included under health care programs because of the perception the general public has over it?
At the very least, therapy should be included under all health care programs for people who need it. If someone is engaged in self destructive behavior, has clinical depression, or is suicidal for any reason (not just trans related ones), they should be able to get treatment for it.
If we're using terms correctly, a pre-op is not at an "ok place" by being pre-op. That's why we have terms like non-op.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicole Dupre
A pre-op is someone who feels they need SRS to be happy. That's why the term implies they will eventually get SRS.
I would propose that the fact that we have non-op as a term today, is evidence that there are people out there... people the medical community & trans community used to hide, who do not need need SRS to be happy, and this is becoming more and more recognized. Though OTOH this somewhat ignores that even Benjamin's transsexualism tier scheme assumed that different people would need different types of treatment to be happy. Even he realized that not everyone would need SRS, or HRT for that matter.
Why is this issue always presented as if its always all one, or all the other?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicole Dupre
Some people simply will not be happy until they're accepted by society living how they want to live indifferent to how they look.
Some people simply will not be happy until their body is how they think it should be, indifferent to how society views them.
Some people need both.
It's really not that complicated.
If we are using 3rd gender to mean "there is a male gender, a female gender, and everyone else is a 3rd gender" then you have to coupe with a fatal flaw- and that's the fatal flaw of saying that MtF's and FtM's are the same gender. That's crazy talk.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicole Dupre
It would be far more easy, and accurate, to instead of using fabricated PC-terms like "3rd gender"- to just drop the facades and say "either there are two genders... or gender is a spectrum." Because you simply can't lump all MtF, FtM, and etc. people together and say they have the same gender. They do NOT all have the same gender, and anyone who thinks otherwise needs a major reality check. Usually when people start spouting off about this so called "3rd gender" they're coming from a world view where there are only 3 people; GG's, GB's, and MtF's. Any classification scheme needs to take FtM's into consideration if it is taking MtF's into consideration.
If we were to start making up new genders for every oddball situation, where would it end? This would be an argument for at least 4 genders, possibly 5 if we opened it up to androgies.
3rd gender was a term fabricated to advocate a political position. It's factually baseless and without supporting logic.
The same is just as true if we start using "3rd gender" to talk about classifying sex. You simply cannot argue that MtF's and FtM's are the same sex, for the same reason why you cannot argue that GG's and GB's are the same sex.
ZzzZZZz
I was thinking about mature hardcore porn
The NHS is all about the postcode funding lottery and whether or not your GP has any previous experience with gender issues.. local therapists do they actually exist ?:)Quote:
I do have to agree with this paragraph for the most part. NHS in the UK only seems to be capable of helping those who are late midlife crisis transitioners. How many younger girls have we seen online in the last 5 yrs who lamented about having to go private because "NHS wanted them to be fulltime for 2 years before going on HRT" or "had 5 year wait times to see the local therapist for a diagnosis"? If NHS is a success, I'd hate to see what a failure is.
Sure, they're in the same districts that have honest politicians, truthful lawyers, hordes of wild unicorns, and no CCTVQuote:
Originally Posted by SammiValentine
Why doesn't she invite you to her home for Thanksgiving dinner?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicole Dupre
We have been using the terms "true" and "untrue" transsexual quite a bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicole Dupre
As I have mentioned I am a card carrying member of the Benjamin school, The World Professional Association for Transgender Health (WPATH), formerly known as the (Harry Benjamin International Gender Dysphoria Association, HBIGDA)
It is in the context defined by Benjamin that I mean "true" transsexual.
The Blanchard-Bailey school on the other hand use the terms autogynephiles and homosexual transsexual to denote between true and
untrue.
Thus on the Benjamin scale, I was a Type Six: True Transsexual (high
intensity), and on the Blanchard scale I would haave been a homosexual
transsexual.
Dr. Harry Benjamin's Gender Disorientation Scale
Type One: Transvestite (Pseudo)
Gender Feeling: Masculine
Dressing Habits and Social Life: Lives as a man. Could get occasional kick out of dressing. Normal male life.
Sex Object Choice and Sex Life: Hetero, bi, or homosexual. Dressing and -- more --exchange may occur in masturbation fantasies mainly. May enjoy TV literature only.
Kinsey Scale: 0-6
Conversion Operation: Not considered in reality.
Estrogen Medication: Not interested or indicated.
Psychotherapy: Not wanted and unnecessary.
Remarks: Interests in dressing is only sporadic.
Type Two: Transvestism (Fetishistic)
Gender Feeling: Masculine
Dressing Habits and Social Life: Lives as a man. Dressing periodically or part of the time. Dresses underneath male clothes.
Sex Object Choice and Sex Life: Heterosexual. Rarely bisexual. Masturbation with fetish. Guilt feelings. Purges and relapses.
Kinsey Scale: 0-2
Conversion Operation: Rejected
Estrogen Medication: Rarely interested. Occasionally useful to reduce libido.
Psychotherapy: May be successful (in a favorable environment.)
Remarks: May imitate double (masculine and feminine) personality with male and female names.
Type Three: Transvestism (True)
Gender Feeling: Masculine (but with less conviction.)
Dressing Habits and Social Life: Dresses constantly or as often as possible. May live and be accepted as woman. May dress underneath male clothes, if no other chance.
Sex Object Choice and Sex Life: Heterosexual, except when dressed. Dressing gives sexual satisfaction with relief of gender discomfort. May purge and relapse.
Kinsey Scale: 0-2
Conversion Operation: Actually rejected, but idea can be attractive.
Estrogen Medication: Attractive as an experiment. Can be helpful emotionally
Psychotherapy: If attempted is usually not successful as to cure.
Remarks: May assume double personality. Trend toward transsexualism.
Type Four: Transsexual (Nonsurgical)
Gender Feeling: Undecided. Wavering between TV and TS.
Dressing Habits and Social Life: Dresses as often as possible with insufficient relief of his gender discomfort. May live as a man or woman; sometimes alternating.
Sex Object Choice and Sex Life: Libido often low. Asexual or auto-erotic. Could be bisexual. Could also be married and have children.
Kinsey Scale: 1-4
Conversion Operation: Attractive but not requested or attraction not admitted.
Estrogen Medication: Needed for comfort and emotional balance.
Psychotherapy: Only as guidance; otherwise refused or unsuccessful.
Remarks: Social life dependent upon circumstances.
Type Five: True Transsexual (moderate intensity)
Gender Feeling: Feminine (trapped in male body)
Dressing Habits and Social Life: Lives and works as woman if possible. Insufficient relief from dressing.
Sex Object Choice and Sex Life: Libido low. Asexual auto-erotic, or passive homosexual activity. May have been married and have children.
Kinsey Scale: 4-6
Conversion Operation: Requested and usually indicated.
Estrogen Medication: Needed as substitute for or preliminary to operation.
Psychotherapy: Rejected. Useless as to cure. Permissive psychological guidance.
Remarks: Operation hoped for and worked for. Often attained.
Type Six: True Transsexual (high intensity)
Gender Feeling: Feminine. Total psycho-sexual inversion.
Dressing Habits and Social Life: May live and work as a woman. Dressing gives insufficient relief. Gender discomfort intense.
Sex Object Choice and Sex Life: Intensely desires relations with normal male as female if young. May have been married and have children, by using fantasies in intercourse.
Kinsey Scale: 6
Conversion Operation: Urgently requested and usually attained. Indicated.
Estrogen Medication: Required for partial relief.
Psychotherapy: Psychological guidance or psychotherapy for symptomaticrelief only.
Remarks: Despises his male sex organs. Danger of suicide or self-mutilation, if too long frustrated.
As contrasted with:
Blanchard's Categories
Autogynephiles
Autogynephiles suffer from an extreme variation on Transvestic fetishism. Basically any transsexual who also suffers from the symptoms of transvestic fetishism is an Autogynephile
In Bailey's book he describes the Autogynephile as transitioning at an average age of 45. They were typically masculine little boys and very masculine as grown men. They often were the type who was first string on the (American) football team, or green beret commando's. They have usually had long and successful careers in typically masculine occupations. Very often these women remain married to their wives who they have been married to for many years after transition.
Homosexual transsexuals
All transsexuals who are in fact free of transvestic fetishes are of this type. The vast majority of transsexuals fall into this category. Transsexuals who are strictly un attracted to female anatomy would be unable to have a fetish for having a female body or wearing the clothing of a female. Hence the emphasis placed on an exclusive homosexual pre transition sexual orientation by way of the name given to this type.
This type of transsexual regardless of their professed sexual orientation makes a socially awkward male. They may attempt to fit into society as a homosexual male but find that homosexual males are unattractive to them. They may try to fit into heterosexual society for a short time. They are never able to maintain that front long enough to have grown children or a long masculine career.
It is worth noting that this type of transsexual has been observed through all of history. They have been called primary, true, or classical transsexuals. They have been seen as the Hijra (South Asia) of South Asia , Two-Spirit of Native North Americans, and the Mukhannathun of Arab/muslim society. One case illustrates the whole phenomena of heterosexual transsexuality. The Roman Emperor Elagabalus who was married five times but only had a lasting relationship with his slave and chariot driver who she referred to as her husband. She is thought by some to have undergone a primitive form of sexual reassignment surgery before dying, being killed by her guards or faking her death at the age of 25.
Pretty much the essence of my responses.Quote:
Originally Posted by BrendaQG
I realized that God willing that I would get older. I knew that I would be
middle-aged, then a geriatic senior.
I knew that I didn't want to, nor could I, be sucking and fucking at 50, 60,
70, 80, 90, perhaps a 100+ years of age.
The sex industry is a young persons industry, thus if I didn't want to go
hungry, be homeless, or be dependent on state or Federal aid that I
needed to put in place a plan to ensure that didn't happen.
And unlike some transwomen, I didn't see myself as a victim. I didn't see
myself as someone whoose race and gender was going to hold her back.
What do they do when they gt older? they fuck us guys whom they were fucking when they were younger, lots of them are still servicing clients into their late 50's and beyond. Listen all you young studs, you too will get older and will be doing the same thing. I usually fuck girls under thirty who prefer older guys, but I still visit some of the old flames whom I fucked when I was a youngster and my cock was able to cum three times in a session.
I am thinking of opening a non profit retirement home for transsexuals out in Palm Springs,CA, minimum age will be 54 and will try to gear expenses to reality. Should be about twenty units, mostly with two bedrooms, living room, kitchen, storage ares, swimming pool suana/steam room. Also an upside down room so if your tits are sagging you can refresh them by hanging upside down for a while. Contact me if you are interested in signing up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by helmetvonzeplin
But what happens when they get older and can no longer walk the
streets?
Mexican ex-prostitutes find home
By Duncan Kennedy
BBC News, Mexico City
Go to the centre of Mexico City after dark and you can see the women start to colonise the district.
The grey suits that are everywhere during daylight hours give way to multi-coloured miniskirts as the time arrives for a different kind of product to be traded.
There are not enough street corners to accommodate all the women. Instead, there are rows of them along the main boulevards.
The parade of women means the male clients can stay in the dry warmth of their cars as they make their impersonal choice.
One estimate says there are 3,000 prostitutes in the city at any one time.
But what happens when they get older and can no longer walk the streets?
One answer lies behind an unremarkable brown door of a two-storey block in the city's poorer northern neighbourhood.
Tranquil
Push open the door and you walk into what is believed to be the world's first retirement home for prostitutes.
A fountain in its central court yard gives it the tranquil feeling of a home for pensioners in Florida.
Here all of the 30 women who have so far moved in are former workers in the sex industry.
The house is the idea of Carmen Munoz, herself a prostitute for 20 years.
"It's taken me a long time to get this place opened," she says. "We had to convince the local government and the police it was needed. But when I saw elderly women lying in the streets with nowhere to go, I knew I had to act."
An enlightened city mayor and private donors are paying for the home, Carmen says.
As we talk, one woman shuffles by on a walking frame. Carmen turns to me and whispers: "She's 90 and spent 40 years as a working girl."
Before I came here, I lived with people who used to hurt me
Maria, 75-year-old former prostitute
Set around a central square with walls painted in blue and yellow, the house is called Casa Xochiquetzal. It is named after the Aztec goddess of beauty and sexual love.
Solitude
We go into the room of Maria, 75. On one wall hangs a small picture of Jesus. A collection of six black, brown and blue hand bags are pinned to another.
It is a sign, she tells me, of her determination to retain some femininity in a career of cold, anonymous, encounters.
After providing a lifetime of comfort for others she, like all those here, was condemned to a life of solitude herself.
"Before I came here, I lived with people who used to hurt me. If I couldn't pay the rent they used to make me suffer very much," Maria says, before breaking down in tears.
Later, we see other women and more rooms, most of them equipped with nothing but a bed.
Any money the women earned was long ago siphoned off by pimps and corrupt police officers.
I see a young boy and girl playing by the fountain. Carmen tells me there is an occasional visit by a grandchild. But the sons, daughters, brothers and sisters of the women stay away.
"In a country like Mexico which is very conservative and religious, those friends and family don't want to know," she says.
Martha, 74, has not seen her two sons for years. The house now provides the dignified sanctuary so long denied her.
"I have many comforts here," she says. "There's food and a roof over my head. I don't want much, just security and to be with friends."
Until now, Martha and the other residents were proof that the sex industry had a forgotten demographic: elderly, former practitioners, discarded by the cruel forces of a market that penalises the imperfections of old age.
But after a life of violence, discrimination and exploitation, these women have at last found people who are showing them compassion.
Prostitution is the oldest profession in the world, but some of its oldest professionals now have a place to call home
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7028449.stm
Zimbabwe - AFRICA
Prostitute ends up in a retirement home
Posted on06 September 2009.
CHIPO Chatyoka’s life as a prostitute had reached a dead end when she came to Hope Nyamapanda Centre, Hope Nyamapanda Centre is also popularly known as the so-called retirement home for sex workers.
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2/magi43/zim.png
The 36-year-old former prostitute went to the border town of Nyamapanda from nearby Tsonga Village a few years ago to look for riches through one of the world’s oldest professions. Ravaged by diseases and weighed down by the hectic life of prostitution, Chatyoka decided to retire recently from her demanding job without much to show for it.
She now talks about her past as a prostitute with regret and is adamant that prostitution does not pay.
“There is no day I can say I was happy during my days as a prostitute.
“You are always crying and regretting your actions. In short, there is no way one can enjoy being a prostitute.”
Chatyoka has since turned a new leaf and joined other former prostitutes at the home at Nyamapanda Border Post where they try out various income-generating projects.
“We came here to rediscover ourselves once again. We are all ex-prostitutes and most of us are living with HIV and Aids.
“This is the reward we had after our long years of escapades in this border area.”
Chatyoka constantly breaks down when she narrates some of the ordeals she went through as a prostitute.
“The day I will never forget is when I went to the bar looking for clients. I mistakenly stepped on the foot of some man.
“I thought an apology to him would be enough, but I was wrong.
“Within seconds I found myself on the ground after being punched in the face.
“My face swelled that very moment and I had to bolt out of the bar and abandon my mission for the night.
“My day was cut short and I went home without a client. This is when I started thinking of quitting the profession,” she said.
In some instances Chatyoka said some men would take her in for several days but then kick her out without paying her anything for her services.
“There is a day I met a truck driver who told me he was spending four days in the town while clearing his vehicle.
“He told me he would pay for my services on the last day.
“On that day he sent me to buy bread using my money and when I returned the vehicle was gone.
“I waited for some time only to release that I had been taken for a ride. The guy had disappeared without paying me.”
Nyamapanda Border Post is usually a hive of activity with people from all walks of life, most of whom make up the majority of clients for the prostitutes. The chief protagonists are said to be truck drivers who stop over in the town while on their way to and from Malawi and Mozambique.
There are others referred to as “jorijo” who visit the border town to make money through different ways, including robbery.
Then there are market traders who bring various wares to the border town for resale. These normally spend several weeks camped in the town and only return to their homes when their wares have been sold. There are also hundreds of cross-border traders in this busy place. The border post is surrounded by at least five villages on the Zimbabwean side, with the same number found across the border in Mozambique. Prostitution is therefore a thriving industry in this area.
Not surprisingly, condoms also sell like hot cakes here. Last month, the retirement home dished out nearly 11 000 condoms in the area. Another former sex worker, Maidei Chamuna (35), says narrating her experiences as a prostitute brought her unbearable memories. “It all started after my husband died in 1997.
“I experienced near-death situations when I ventured into prostitution which is why I later decided to come to this centre. This has become our home.
“I am literally staying here because I am always preoccupied with the projects we are running. “I am slowly re-discovering my life as I work hard to earn some money.”
The programme officer at the home, Ms Joyce Mahachi, said the centre has assisted many former sex workers to re-discover their lives.
At least 86 former prostitutes have become permanent members of the “retirement home”.
“Those who come here become permanent members because it is very difficult for them to return to prostitution after being involved in these different projects.
“When they are here they feel at home. They settle down and cease to be active prostitutes,” she said.
The former sex workers are involved in projects that include sewing and peanut butter making. They were also offered a piece of land by the Nyamapanda Clinic where they practise vegetable gardening.
“These people need a lot of help. They come here from as far away as Bindura, Mutoko and Murehwa to be prostitutes.
“They come in good health which deteriorates after a few years of staying in this town.
“In most cases friends end up selling the few belongings of those who fall ill to take them to their rural areas.
“What surprises me is that it is very difficult to stop prostitution, even if people know the dangers involved,” she said.
Hope Nyama-panda also offers some programmes for the youth and counselling to active prostitutes.
The home was established in 2003 and is supported by the Shamva-based Development Aid from People to People (DAPP
http://www.zimbabwewebnews.co.cc/?p=243
Malaysian prostitutes snub retirement home offer
Posted on Thursday, October 12, 2006 (EST)
Ageing prostitutes in an eastern Malaysian state have reportedly snubbed the government's offer of free retirement
KUALA LUMPUR (AFP) - "We want to give them a new life but they seem uninterested," said Rosol Wahid, an Islamic development official from conservative Terengganu state.
"All we want them to do is give up their profession and lead a decent life," he told The Star newspaper.
Terengganu authorities offered 15 prostitutes, most of whom had been in the sex industry for some two decades, rent-free apartments in a housing complex in a gesture to mark the Muslim holy month of Ramadan.
But none have taken up the offer, preferring instead to remain in the town centre, continuing to practice their trade and living in dilapidated wooden houses.
"I am getting old and my loyal clients have promised to take care of my welfare when I retire," said 50-year-old sex worker Makcik Ayu, adding that the residents of the apartment block would harass the women if they moved in.
http://www.sawfnews.com/lifestyle/23826.aspx
Not at all. The general public will unfortunately believe many things that they hear repeatedly. So they need to start hearing that gender identity is not necessarily determined by genitalia far more often than they do now.Quote:
Originally Posted by SarahG
But the late transitioners often do become the face of transsexuality, and not in a good way. But I suspect thats because they stick out more like sore thumbs, and are often more obvious about struggling with making the adjustment; they find themselves having a lot more explaining to do, and speaking for us all. I don't necessarily blame them for it, but it doesn't help matters.
And that's why I think "true" and "untrue" are a slippery slope.Quote:
Originally Posted by SarahG
I agree with all of that, but I still try to present things in a way that the average breeder and/or heterosexist can understand. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by SarahG
Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I'm very much ok with concepts like 'girls look and behave like mommy' and 'boys look and behave like daddy'. I just don't think that what we use to pee or have orgasms with should determine whether you're a boy or a girl. :P My parents still serve as my two gender archetypes. But I'm not trying to sanctify those archetypes, and I don't necessarily associate either with genitalia.
Btw, I still consider SRS EVERY DAY OF MY LIFE. But it's not plaguing me, or making me feel "less than".
I would agree with that. Someone who starts early and can pass may be out as out gets but unless she's walking around with a tshirt that boldly says "I'm trans," the general public might well never know in just passing her in a store or the mall.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicole Dupre
I do think that Benjamin's choice of terminology was more than a tick unfortunate. If he had just plainly setup his tier system so it read something like; "transsexuals who need SRS," and "transsexuals who need all but SRS" instead of this true versus untrue stuff, I doubt people would get their panties tied in knots so easily over it.Quote:
And that's why I think "true" and "untrue" are a slippery slope.
However I don't think it ever was meant to be more than a diagnostic tool, to say nothing of a divide & conquer tool.
I believe that it was the so-called community itself that was responsible for taking Benjamin et al's work and turning it into a line of distinction. If there is anything that is painfully obvious anywhere in trans spaces, it is how common trans people will try to seek validation through "trans-ier than thou" arguments debating who knew at the earliest age, who started hrt first, who got implants first, who was the youngest to go fulltime- I could go on and on. True/untrue was just another sentence to throw into that already existing, never ending pile of elitism.
lol, well in that case- do we need to dumb stuff down on this site? I would think the people who would have trouble keeping up have probably already distanced themselves from this thread.Quote:
I agree with all of that, but I still try to present things in a way that the average breeder and/or heterosexist can understand. ;)
That's actually what I was trying to get at the other day in that thread where Bella and I were talking about a few similar things.Quote:
Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I'm very much ok with concepts like 'girls look and behave like mommy' and 'boys look and behave like daddy'. I just don't think that what we use to pee or have orgasms with should determine whether you're a boy or a girl. :P
At the end of the day the brain is the most definitively important sex characteristic there is. Not everyone with a vagina is going to think, act, or perform functions like a girl. Not everyone with a penis is going to think, act, or perform functions like a guy- the brain dictates how the person does, pretty much, everything. You could take anyone off the street, give them SRS- and while they might be legally another sex after the fact (depending on what state you're in), unless you lucked into picking someone who was trans (statistically unlikely) you're going to be stuck with someone who is, for all practical purposes outside of sexual intercourse, their birth sex still. They won't think, walk, talk, or do much of anything as the opposite from their birth sex, because the brain simply won't know how.
Great response, particularly this:Quote:
Originally Posted by SarahG
And this:Quote:
I do think that Benjamin's choice of terminology was more than a tick unfortunate. If he had just plainly setup his tier system so it read something like; "transsexuals who need SRS," and "transsexuals who need all but SRS" instead of this true versus untrue stuff, I doubt people would get their panties tied in knots so easily over it.
However I don't think it ever was meant to be more than a diagnostic tool, to say nothing of a divide & conquer tool.
I believe that it was the so-called community itself that was responsible for taking Benjamin et al's work and turning it into a line of distinction. If there is anything that is painfully obvious anywhere in trans spaces, it is how common trans people will try to seek validation through "trans-ier than thou" arguments debating who knew at the earliest age, who started hrt first, who got implants first, who was the youngest to go fulltime- I could go on and on. True/untrue was just another sentence to throw into that already existing, never ending pile of elitism.
The thread had pretty much evolved / devolved, depending on yourQuote:
lol, well in that case- do we need to dumb stuff down on this site? I would think the people who would have trouble keeping up have probably already distanced themselves from this thread.
perspective to something that only a "true" gender theorist would have
an interest in.
I agree, but elitism doesn't end with transsexuals and is not inherently bad. Women are often as obsessed with out-doing each other as transsexuals are. Women also become sex-workers, but some are more self-destructive than others. Being a Hooters girl is not necessarily a dead end, but it may create validation and self-esteem issues.Quote:
Originally Posted by SarahG
In regards to the HBS, I also think a much more useful distinction would be to divide pantie fetishists, who masturbate in private, and those who live their lives as women. "True" and everything not "true" is perhaps not intentionally divisive language, but is a horrible place establish a status quo at. Look at the way a self-loathing closet case like Phobun conveniently employs it on a TS porn forum.
Well, most guys here wouldn't know the HBS from HBO. They're still wresting with their manhood and sexuality, over concepts like a great pair of tits being attached to body with a big cock. The theme of the forum is "HUNG angels". I don't use terms like shemale anywhere but places like here. But I recognize the broader spectrum, and so do most people on my side of the equation. ;)Quote:
lol, well in that case- do we need to dumb stuff down on this site? I would think the people who would have trouble keeping up have probably already distanced themselves from this thread.
i believe the answer to your question lies in in this thread http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=49778Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicole Dupre
here on HA we have 2 girls who are best friends and who both are working in the sex trade . 1 girl is middle aged and has escorted for years and has also done porn and the 2nd girl who is in her mid 20's has escorted since her early teens and too has done porn . In the last 2 years the younger friend has aged in dog years and looks 10 years older than her actual age .
- Peggygee is right in that Ts who work in the porn and escorting business tend to live shorter lives than the TS of who work regular jobs in society .
- over the next 10 years these 2 friends will make an interesting study of just what happens to TS sex workers when they get older . if they are still living in 10 years .
dc_guy_75 wrote:
Quote:
Unfortunately, many tgirls have bypassed working on legit careers or higher education to pay for their needs at the time, I picture nursing or being a real estate agent good career choices...
Maybe I'm generalizing,
Duhhhhhh.......ya think so? Instead of making rash assumptions about and peculiar career choices for others why not work on mastering the art of the complete sentence? :roll:
Nicole, will you invite me to your house for Thanksgiving dinner?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicole Dupre
Sorry, Floyd, but I've already accepted an invitation. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd R
At Peggy's house, its only a true turkey after its been carved ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicole Dupre
FK