You should be courteous and a gentleman because it is the right thing to do, not to get laid or get ladylike behavior in return.
Too many people think keeping it rude is keeping it real, and forget that virtue is its own reward.
FK
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You should be courteous and a gentleman because it is the right thing to do, not to get laid or get ladylike behavior in return.
Too many people think keeping it rude is keeping it real, and forget that virtue is its own reward.
FK
Braveman, I'm not trying to point a finger at hip-hop, I'm just saying that a lot (in almost all genres, well, I'm guessing its not to present in like... I dunno christian music) of popular music today has lyrics condoning domestic violence and treating women like sexual objects.
And thanks to music videos, a lot of young impressionable teens see this sort of 'rockstar' style of doing things and think its pretty fucking bad ass.
I hope that this can help our misunderstanding of my prievous posts, I do not hate hip-hop, I do like some of it, but like I said earlier, my main musical tastes reside in the 80s (and earlier for that matter)
Like Dave Chappelle said:
"Chivarly is dead, and women killed it!"
BEST response yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Felicia Katt
That's because there are even fewer true ladies left in the world than there are true gentelman. Both are dying breeds, at least here in the United States.Quote:
Originally Posted by hollywoodbuckstrap
-Quinn
Please correct me if i´m wrong.
The girls who posted here want the same rights that man have.I support you in that.I don´t see any reason to suppress half of the population.Plus you want a special status because...you claim to be what?The "weak" gender?I don´t see a reason to treat someone better or worse because someone belongs to a certain gender.
There are so few gentlemen left because there are so many women thinking it is perfectly acceptable to piss in the street , commentate at football matches and cheer at a boxing match when one bloke gets knocked out when they should rightly feel faint. Women even pretend now to understand football. Nothing puts me off more watching a football match than some girls squeaky bloody voice, find myself looking at her tits more than the match.
I expect there are still ladies out there , but there are far too many geezer birds muddying the water for them. You can't have it both ways girls, know your limits.
Again I repeat. GIRLS.....please make it a requirement that men treat you like a lady or don't date them. They will change or go out with their friends where they have an audience and are told how bad and cool they are.
I'm saddened because I've lost battles to "bad boys," I think I'm a pretty mischievious bad boy with my girls. Just done with class, elegance and caring.
But stop fawning over the degenerates and stop trying to teach grown men manners. Go for the ones that are deserving. Please.
And just a note. Expecting something in return because you used your gentleman skills is more like being a con artist and should be considered worse than being no gentleman at all.
I ask some of the girls here. Now that I'm ugly, old and haggard, I tend to have gravitated to slow, grinding lovemaking and preferably done with patience and the same woman. Has pornography become more of an outlet for fetish and thrills than romantic eroticism? Treatment of women and actually sex partners in general gives off a lack of respect. Not sure. Just asking.
What does equal rights, equal pay, have to do with common courtesy and being polite as a man?Quote:
Originally Posted by elo
you have experience with German (men) ?
I hope, you will do it.
I´m absolutely for being polite as a human to humans.I am just wondering why some people think they have a moral right for a special status because they belong to a certain gender?Quote:
Originally Posted by AllanahStarrNYC
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllanahStarrNYC
AWWWWW...wtf??? :evil:
That's because the bitch stole my line!!!!
.
I think most of the problem is the equal rights movement, girls want to be treated just like guys but, as soon as it comes to moving things its "here random guy carry this" you see it happen with doors too. A girl rarely holds a door open for a guy but expects the guy to hold the door open for them, then you have what I call the humor failiure, they want to join in the jokes, they want to be able to rip the piss, but the second you direct it back they get upseat. Now if we see people DEMAND the same treatment, BUT, expect the same priviledges and extras then we start to see it as wrong.
I have a little sister, shes 21 and a Psycology Degree holder, she is also as highly trained a martial artist as me, I have seen her on 4 occasions snap the punchball chain in training. She ALWAYS expects me to carry heavy bags and boxes for her. She NEVER offers me a coffe, but takes offense when she isnt offered a cup of tea.
Now that exsists with many girls, the best freinds I have ever had are the girls who act like equals, who just decide that heavy thing needs moving and they are going to do it. If you ask em if they want help they turn to you and say "Naa I got it" not "Oh cause Im a woman?" or "well you move it for me". These girls are the types who you go down to the pub and you start ripping the piss out of each other and they join in, and they TAKE as good as they give, hell one of them prefered to verbally spar with me BECAUSE of my cruel barbed humor. She WANTED me to say shit like "Blonde bimbo" (she was intelligent but came out with gems) she didnt go into the "Oh im clever, i make half of you look dumb, how dare you" she would fire back lines equally as barbed and even laugh at all the jokes you directed back.
Men ALWAYS have to ask girls out, hell when you are on a date, the guy has to keep up with the flowers, jewels, paying for meals etc.. If a girl offers to pay for a meal or a trip out more often than not they will get offended when you say OK.
Another MAJOR impact is the horrendous misuse of the RAPE claim. A girl sleeps with a guy, regrets it and calls rape, the guys life is now ruined, the girl if prosecuted for the lie, is only sentanced to weeks inside often they get away with minor fines. The poor guys life is ruined and the girls? The girl is "forgiven" she can walk around town and gets sympathy whereas the guy has to move town and if he has the guts to turn up in his old home town, he is treated with contempt and hatred because he was lied about, he is a target for violence, but the girl is a target for sympathy.
I think this depends upon where you live. While living in NYC, I was asked out frequently by women I knew from university, my building, or whatever. Many of the women that live there won't hear of you paying there way (at least until a more intimate rapport is established), usually because they want to demonstrate to you that they are your equal.Quote:
Originally Posted by FREEFALLL666
Living hear in the Buckhead section of Atlanta, I've noticed that women aren't afraid to ask a guy out or hit on him either. Conversely, when I'm in Central Goergia, where I'm currently engaged in a number or real estate projects, I have to deal with women that are very traditional. They'll drop lots of hints, but they won't ask you out – and when you do go out, you’re expected to pay. Like I said, it all depends upon where you live.
-Quinn
Increasing rudeness is merely another symptom of a declining civilization. Politeness is one of the first things to go as the day to day struggle to survive gets harder and harder.
you ladys wanted equal rights ,so you got it.
It seems like this topic resonates with a good number of people.
For me there is a balance in what I feel comfortable with. When I'm dating a guy I like them to be helpful, opening doors if my hands are full (and noticing that my hands are full) helping me carry things (just like I would do for them, for any friend that I hang out with) and in general paying attention to my well being. But when I drive somewhere, I don't want a guy to make a big show of being the one to drive or if I'm the passenger insisting on letting me in and out of the car. I'm a big girl and I can take care of myself. Helpless is not my schtick. In all relationships I desire balance. Care and concern given out of respect of one another as people.
It doesn't bother me when guys are upholding old-fashioned gender roles, certainly not enough to be curt or unpleasant. After a while, I may say: "I like to sometimes walk into a building first".
I consider myself a feminist, and I think it is possible to both be a feminist and someone who appreciates a thoughtful man.
Of course there are important exceptions. When I am in a situation where other people will be offended by my male companions behavior, I appreciate discretion, and have no qualm with such behavior.
As for the general level of thoughtlessness in younger guys...well, I think people are just less concerned with one another's well being. Many people are alienated, upset, and numb. This gets played out on large societal levels where a lucky few wash their hands of everyone else, and on a personal level where everyone is always in competition, in one way or another thinking about themselves.
So I think some younger guys just don't give a shit. They don't give a shit about manners, they don't give a shit about being helpful, they don't give a shit about your well being, they just care about themselves.
No matter what your feeling is about holding doors for women, a real gentleman is a guy who cares about his female companions well being. If she likes you to open the door, and you want to open the door, then your'e a perfect match.
xoxo
Mandy
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mandytgirl/
Common courtesy should be shown to everyone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by braveman
Wow, you completely missed my point in your zeal to rebut. We are actually saying the same thing, just in different ways. After rereading my post "lost" was a bit harsh. I just meant thinking a single Mom household is capable of churning out sons as well rounded as a complete family unit is somewhat naive.
Yes, there are amazing single Moms capable of producing the healthiest stock of male sons possible, I just don't think it is the norm. Single mothers face adversity that not many other people experience. Jackie Kennedy was aware of this and sent her son to boxing as she felt he (JFK Jr.)needed a male presence in his life to be healthy in adulthood. Hence my point about monetary inadequacies creating problems for SOME mothers.(not all Mothers can afford special Golden Glove treatment.)
Concordantly, you're being too literal with what I said about "outcasts." I merely meant that some teen males that don't have a father figure act out in societally unapproved ways making them temporary outcasts--That was me.
As far as every family being different.....well, yeah! Of course, I understand that there is no rigid or sweeping generalization that can apply to ANY entire group of Americans, or more broadly, people for that matter.
What I meant about "Romantic" was, Yes, I want to believe that "pie in the sky belief."..but The COLD reality as you put it, is single Mothers are up against socio-economic factors that not many other Americans are up against. And in the face of that adversity not all men raised by single mothers have the societal advantages as men raised in a sound family unit.
With that said, Braveman, I apologize for calling you "Lost". I didn't necessarily mean it in a negative way, but I retract it nonetheless.
If only you were a "Hot, Hung angel" we could kiss and make up, but that is out of the question :wink:
Same shit, different day... yet again.
To wish someone to behave like a gentleman, you must first be certain you behave like a lady. Not sure that's exactly how it goes, but I heard that saying a few times growing up, mostly from my grandmother and other women her age. Interestingly enough, they were passing this along to some of my female cousins, none of whom, I might add, are what I believe one could properly call "ladylike".
So, once again, it's a case of people expecting things that they haven't earned, which is, of course, nothing new. In a sentence, there's so few gentlemen left because there are so few ladies left... and without one, how long can you expect the other to exist?
Morals, common courtesy and socially acceptable behavior are all completely subjective.Quote:
Originally Posted by TJ347
I agree, you reap what you sow and ladies aren't reaping many gentleman by reason of lack of sowing,.
Not that that's new at all either, now is it? Anyway, my thing is (and I think a few other posters appear to be of a similar mindset), why do so many women confuse being a woman with being a lady, first off... And secondly, why is it that so many women think they're owed something for simply being women?Quote:
Originally Posted by braveman
I don't disagree with Felicia that being a gentleman is something you should do without the expectation of any reward, but I believe that a woman who encounters a gentleman should be appreciative, which is all too often not the case, and thus we get "where are all the gentlemen" questions in various forms every now and again. Being appreciative of the courtesy of a gentleman is not giving him a reward... it's a part of being a lady. And if that is beyond the understanding of any woman, then she simply isn't a lady, like it or not.
Thx-Braveman, I'm not into grinding personal axes online!Quote:
Originally Posted by braveman
Yup. The thing is in the modern world men are very familiar with the kind of woman who thinks that ANY gesture that I would call simple good manners-- all the holding door, walk on the outside, let her go first things I do routinely-- is simple condescension. We have all, I suspect, been repaid our courtesy by a few cutting words of derision implying that as a woman she's good enough to open her own doors or whatever.Quote:
Originally Posted by TJ347
You get a radar for women like that and the first hint of it you just treat her like another guy, since that is what she obviously wants to be, or at least I do. I give anyone the benefit of the doubt the first time, but nobody fucks me around twice, so....
I'm not suggesting that any of the girls posting in this thread are anything other than ladylike but TJ is right. If women send men signals that making an effort is not appreciated, they'll stop.
:shrug
:lol: :lol: :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by arnie666
Heard this once:
"You don't have to hold the door open for me just because I'm a woman"
"No, I have to because I'm a gentleman"
We as woman are not entitled to special treatment just because we are woman. Courtesy goes both ways. Woman expect too much and very few are willing to give anything back in return. If a guy opens the car door for you, (say thank you) and you had better lean over and unlock his door.
If a guy buys you a drink, buy him one. The guy I'm with is a gentleman, he will hold my arm, open doors for me, let me order first, etc etc etc, but I also buy him dinner occasionally, buy two tickets so we can see his Milwaukee Bucks play, cook for him, run to the door to kiss him, buy him cards , or slip a cute note in his jacket pocket saying thank you for that something special he did for me . Simply put I appreciate everything he does for me. Men love to feel appreciated as well, and not just graced by our presence GIRLS!
I believe that all people should be treated with respect regardless of Gender, age, race , or creed. Thats what this society is lacking and we should work on that as well, and start behaving more like Humans than animals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllanahStarrNYC
MOST WOMEN ARE ANNOYED AT GUYS OPENING DOORS FOR THEM THESE DAYS.
THEY DON'T NEED US EVER SINCE VIBRATORS CAME ONTO THE SCENE.
BUT I AM A GENTLEMAN. 100%
Quote:
Originally Posted by wombat33
Really? REALLY????
I've never, ever, ever, ever encountered someone being angry at someone for holding the door open for them. Never seen it, never heard of it. EVER.
I don't know where you live, but I live in Los Angeles. Everyone is self centered here and I still see people say thank you when the door is opened for them.
AND.... if I am going through the door first, I will hold it open for the next person, female OR male.
I guess that makes me a gentleman.
:wink:
.
I hold doors for people all the time no matter what sex too- and I always say thank you and am polite-Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueBeauty TS
Great response. LolQuote:
Originally Posted by wombat33
Point blank, some don't deserve to have the door opened for them. Some women don't even fuckin say "thank you", as if its the man's obligation to go out of his way for her. I remember opening the door for numerous girls and no "thanks" or nothing. I even walked behind them once when they were ahead of me and the stupid bitches opened the door for themselves, KNOWING I was behind them and let it hit me. I could've knocked them the fuck out! Some just take it for granted. So don't think that its mandatory for men to be nice because it ain't.
It's in all walks of life, its all consistent with the upbrining that you've had.
Good manners cost nothing was what my grandad used to say, rudeness, frankly, is my biggest bugbear in the whole world.
And dont even get me started about people being rude driving cars......
Emma Clark, the woman who until recently did the voice-over for the London underground, posted some spoof announcements on her website a while back. I remember one of them being (paraphrasing):
'Customer Announcement: Someone smiling at you is not a sign of weakness, but is actually a form of greeting and goodwill'.
This is essentially what this thread topic boils down to I think. Both sexes today are afraid to show weakness of any sort, and so try to appear hard by refusing to be polite.
I'm 26 and so far every woman I dated or gone out with rather it be coffee or dinner I have always picked up the tab (98%) and it shocks them if I do that or open the door or help them with their jackets etc.
I think its a dying trait
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueBeauty TS
Well, I live in New York City. I have been with girls on dates who actually got annoyed at me for opening the car door for them. Mocked me even.
The whole "women's movement".
While there needs to be one for many reasons.........slandering guys for opening a door is not one of them. I told you.............vibrators are rendering us useless. LOL. Thank god I weeded through all of those fake bitches and got a good one.
I am always a gentleman no matter how courteous or rude a girl is. I also agree that it all boils down to upbringing. I was taught manners and to respect all people no matter what their gender or race or religion might be. Courtesy should be a part of everyones daily life.
I can answer this one easily.
Bad Boyz, it's that simple.
I'm 28, and all my life I've been a gentleman and the girls did not give me the time of day, all I got was smeggin, ~Assumes Monty Python in drag falsetto voice~ "I like you alot, and you're cute and all, but can't we just be friends? I'd hate risking the beautiful thing we have now."
And then they go run off to their hoodlem boyfriend. :roll:
And it's always the same sorta fellow: A guy who drinks alot of beer, has snake and skull tattoos on their arms, part of a no name rock band that's never gonna go anywhere ( and if he's a drummer, then his chances of getting chicks doubles for some reason. ) , works only enough to get their smokes and booze, got arrested in the past, and if they do some sorta drug, then up his sucess points more. That's how it is in my neck of the woods. In Detroit, just replace the above mentioned person with a gangsta rapper wannabe.
When someone, especially a frustrated younger guy, is a gentleman and does not get the girls....and then sees how the guys I mentioned in the previous paragraph are getting the girls....and easily too ( sometimes the girls throw themselves to these jerks ), then they will very likely go down that road as well. Cause if they see these hoodlems getting the chicks, why be a gentleman and get less than nothing when you can be a jerk and get the good stuff.
There's an old saying I heard once, "There's not much gold to be earned from being good."
While I still try and open doors and pay for dinners/coffee a lot of guys dont see the point anymore.
IMO, Chivalry developed form women being the weaker sex and now that women have equal rights with men the ways of the past are slowly dieing out. My current girlfriend is an engineer she makes just as much as I do so why should we split the bill or sometimes she should pay for it. Granted I still do nice things for her like hold the door and get her coat when we leave, etc... but it just doesn't have as much meaning as it used to.
I've been a lurker here for quite some time. Some of the conversation here takes a rougher tone than I care for, but I always learn something here and I've enjoyed sitting on the sidewalk watching the parade pass by. And I mean that sincerely; I say it without any sarcasm.Quote:
Originally Posted by AllanahStarrNYC
My mom's family was from the South and she raised her boy to be a gentleman. I haven't been a boy in many years but her lessons have always stayed with me and they've never let me down. I don't think I've forgotten any of them; in addition to helping her with her coat and opening doors for her, here are other things a gentleman does when he's around a lady:
1. When a gentleman is out with a lady the only thing he has the right to expect is the pleasure of her company.
2. In a restaurant, the gentleman offers to seat the lady with her back to the wall. In this arrangement the lady can see everyone in the room and everyone in the room can see (and appreciate) the lady. This arrangement also helps the gentleman avoid distractions and it allows him to give his full attention to the lady.
3. A gentleman stands when a lady enters the room and he stands both when she leaves and returns to the dining table.
4. When a lady enters a room and there is not sufficient seating, a gentleman leaves the room to find her a new chair so she won't have to sit on a warm chair seat.
5. The gentleman's scent should not compete with the lady's perfume. A gentleman should smell clean and, if at all possible, should avoid wearing cologne or after shave.
6. During social introductions the gentleman is always introduced to the lady ("Mary, I'd like you to meet John."), not the other way around. This is not necessary during professional introductions.
7. During introductions a gentleman always offers his hand to another gentleman but he never shakes hands with a lady unless she first offers her hand to him.
8. A gentleman always finds a way to compliment the lady.
9. A gentleman doesn't use profanity around a lady.
10. A gentleman always removes his hat and sunglasses when conversing with a lady.
11. Good manners and acts of kindness are always appropriate.
12. The appropriate response to a compliment is "Thank you".
Then, too, I remember this. When I was about ten I was at a large family gathering: aunts, uncles, cousins. It was early autumn and one of the first chilly evenings of the season. My cousin had forgotten her jacket, she was shivering, and my mom told me to give her mine. At first I said no, but my mom insisted. "Give your jacket to your cousin." I said "But then I'll be cold." And my mom said "That's right, you'll be cold. But as a gentleman you'll have the satisfaction of knowing that the lady you're with is comfortable." And I gave her my jacket.
Allanah, your post hit home with me and I decided to make it my first on these boards. I hope no one minds.
But you're so right. Good manners are frequently lacking these days. And society is the poorer for that.
but YOU don't have many friends!!!! PLEB!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrist