Printable View
I have admired Gabrielle (aka tsheather.com) since she first appeared on Lynn Conway's site. If I lived near Chicago I would have been out with her for dinner at least once. I could totally imagine taking her home to meet my parents.Quote:
Originally Posted by TsVanessa69
She really is my type. I imagine her to have a really down to earth sense of humour.
And forgive me for continuing my rant - but "ShiningStar" why come onto a porn and escort forum and insult people?
You call us "criminals" because we choose not to follow out-dated puritianical laws from centuries past in order to survive?
And you tell us we're not doing an honest days work and that we should get a job that pays very little? So we can enjoy your perceived self respect while living in the ghetto in poverty?
So do you own your home? Do you drive a late model car? Why can't we?
You essentially say we don't meet your moral standards? Men don't respect us - hell sweetie 3/4 don't respect ANYBODY.
Yeah, we're angry and bitter. Whether we like escortin or not, we'd like to not be put in jail and have what little we do have destroyed simply for trying to survive.
Then you call us a "trannies?" DUDE I'm NOT a "trannie" I'm a TRANSGENDERED WOMAN. Maybe you beter learn that outside of sex marketing, "trannies" don't like to be called trannies.
As for being lonely - I can't speak for anyone else but I got news for you. I have the best partner in the land, I don't need to know anybody else.
Most people don't want to get too close to transsexuals anyway. It doesn't matter how passable or not, if they know you are trans it really cuts down the party invitations. Potential partners sure aren't going to take their TS lover home to meet the family and get labled "gay," or whatever.
That goes for almost ANY TS - why do you think so many end up in sex work? Their families disown them, their friends leave, and most people think they are wierd at the least and "freaks" at worst. Nobody will hire them, and many people simply want to KILL us.
So Pleeeeze give me a break and get a clue before you insult people.
TS Jamie , grrr
tell you what... when you wake up, think realistically, and get off a porn board and open your eyes... ill start to beleive what you say... same goes for "ts jamie" or w/e... just bc YOU do something doesnt mean everyone does, just bc every escort you meet is a transexual does NOT mean every transexual is an escort. just bc you ASSUME every HOT girl is an escort does NOT make it true. just bc you beleive something doesnt make it real or factual... while it may be no secret that i escort here and there as a hobby for the last few months... im in no way dependant or doing it as a profession. i have 2 really good jobs and both pay more then double "$12 @ macys" and one of them happens to put me at macy's often... starting out as a makeup artist for MAC is $16.50... i make a lot more as a national artist and get to travel and go to cool places like movie sets, pro-photoshoots, video sets... etc etc. my best friend rachel is the counter manager for Yves St. Laurent @ Nordrstums where she makes $25+ and my other good friend lexi is a counter manager for Nars @ Neimans and she also makes $25+Quote:
Unisex wrote:
Some of them do work. But, they are minority as some of the ladies here pointed out. They are in the Health care market like you wouldn't believe and they in the Retail market for chain stores such as Macy's and Filenes and Bloomingdales. I see a few common ones making their way to work everyday and sometimes on site as well.
But, aesthetically, they aren't on the same scale that you see posted up in the forum. Would make sense if you're only making so much an hour, the womans transition can only move as fast your financial income does.
So, $12 an hour @ Macy's dealing with Irate customers. Or, $350 an hour where she can dominate some bottom boy?
People need think realistically.
do these look like non-passable 40yr old beasts to you? didnt think so. so take your ignorance to somewhere it might not get proven wrong.
*edit* see post below for pics
links didnt work hold on ill post them
mechelle is my hairdresser and owns her own salon w/ our friend beth who is also ts
my British literature professor this semester was transgendered.
to tsvanessa:
You're right, careers in ponrography and escorting are real careers. I've interviewed multiple escorts for a film project, it's perhaps one of the hardest and sometimes degrading, and most rewarding jobs.
Not that I'm considering the profession, mind you.
guys that only limit their "experience or knowledge" of trans women to a sex-industry based website dont deserve the right to form opinions, make false statements, make uniformed judgements against women they dont know especially when they dont have the balls to make their fantasies, reality. keep opening your mouths and ill keep helping you put your foot in it.
As I have stated in the past on this board, I have transgendered relatives and friends. I agree whole-heartedly with what you have said. Too many people only know about transgendered people from daytime talk shows and the sex industry.Quote:
Originally Posted by tsntx
yeah and those are the idiots that make stupid claims from 0 to little experience w/ the subject and post them as facts and probably actually beleive their own idiot bsQuote:
Originally Posted by General Disarray
admittedly before my brother came out about having really been a woman all of his life and getting surgery I was one of those people too. Not that I ever watched Jerry Springer.... :oops:Quote:
Originally Posted by tsntx
Ok what hits me about all of this talk is how many of you treat being in the adult industry and having another career are totally contradictory, and mutually exclusive.
I myself have done both (escorting and seeking a PhD). God willing in two or three years I will be a PhD. For the time being I have to do what I have to do to make money. I am looking for a legal job now... the first months of summer are the best time for a college graduate to find a god job. If that fails I will still need money. What student loans won't cover I have to.
One of the people in that picture...eating lunch or dinner in Oak Park. Is Maria
Another person who has had a job as well as having been an escort.
whats the matter bitch cant handle someone calling you out on your bullshit?Quote:
Originally Posted by Unisex
and read the thread again douchebag and youll see ...."im not posting after 2000 if some rules arent implemented and things stay the way they are" the rules havent been ironed out yet but they ARE in the works and a lot of things that i didnt like have changed... so like i said above "you keep opening your mouth and ill keep helping you stick your foot in it."
Most all of the girls I've known have had "real jobs", do you think all t-girls are prostitutes?Quote:
Originally Posted by ballbreaker
Take your question and go fuck yourself.
was a post-op transsexual who is working as a Nurse here is England. There is a thread with pictures somewhere on this board. Called Leanne Holmes............
Try this link
http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conw...Sgallery1.html
Plenty of successful Tgirls out there
Steve
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve-Russell
Already posted on page one, Champ. But I agree, it's a very good site.
.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsntx
Thank you! I was going to say the same.
And look, to everyone else. I don't want to judge people.
I will say, though, that money isn't everything; just because selling your body earns you lots of money, it doesn't justify it.
I understand if you need money for medication, hormones or whatever else it is that I have no idea about; You have to do what you HAVE to do.
But to earn the money just because you WANT a trendy car or a big apartment is something altogether different.
Personally, I would always rather being dirt poor and knowing I have not degraded myself, than living more affluently with less respect for myself.
Though, this all depends on wether you consider selling your body as being degrading or not.
i dont think your statement is fair... if your ok w/ someone selling THEIR body for ANY reason, regardless if its soley to transition/ put food on the table or if its to live a desinger label lifestyle, then you should just leave the statement at that... no stipulations "except when you just want nice things"... bottom line is that is still THEIR body and they have every right to do w/ it what they want and do whatever they want w/ whatever that may bring them beit designer shoes and purses or breast and bread.Quote:
Originally Posted by odelay24
IMO it is a completely legitimate field to work in. Just because it is generally illegal in the US in recent times doesn't mean it is something that needs justification any more or less than any other random job (and before anyone asks; no I am not nor have I ever been an escort).Quote:
Originally Posted by odelay24
I'm going to be un-customarily brief, because I'm on my lunch break
at work.
Either you have drawn the wrong inference, or I am mis-understandingQuote:
Originally Posted by Unisex
your statement. I'm not reading in this or any other thread that the
majority of transwomen are engaged in the porn or escort field, but
rather that the majority are in other occupations.
Quote:
They are in the Health care market like you wouldn't believe
I work for my Regions largest Health Care system in the Information technology field. So, I generally support a lot of systems (70,000 to the network) . There have been more than a dozen occasions where I've dealt with a Transgender woman who was a CNA or HHA or phlebotomy, or Pharmacy technicians ,etc.
I think that you may be coming to a faulty conclusion based upon yourQuote:
People need think realistically.
Meaning, if you think that transgender women are in some full force corporate take over, you're mistaken. It's very difficult to find a job that actually pays a well to do wage or salary. So an alternative such as escorting may need to be chosen.
interactions with transwomen. You have encountered a dozen or so
on the job, you have perused a porn board, you may have even met
a few in the real world, but I am going to re-iterate that your overall
exposure to transwomen has been somewhat limited.
Tranwoman are a diverse population, with some working in blue, pink,
white collar realms, as well as the sex industry. They work in health,
retail, technology, academia, basically they work where any other person
would work.
That statement I am going to chalk up to your perhaps not using the bestQuote:
But, aesthetically, they aren't on the same scale that you see posted up in the forum.
Meaning, they don't dress up in Highest heels or the most designer outfits, etc if they are coming to work to work. They put on scrubs or what-ever conservative outfit attire they have to. Obviously little detail features give them away on the job. But, what I'm saying is, they don't look like some runway model.
wording to express your sentiments. If someone is in the industry and
they are doing a photo shoot, they are going to have their hair, makeup,
and wardrobe done accordingly.
Women that are going to their 9 -5 will also dress appropriately to that.
I think where the dis-connect is happening for people is that we assume
that the people that we know in a certain arena are reflective of all the
people in the group in its entirety.
For example if you work in IT, you my mostly know other IT workers,
if you are a cop, you probably know alot of other cops and hang out
with them in your off duty hours.
If you are an transgendered escort, you will very likely know a lot of
other TG escorts. If you frequent TG porn sites, you may erroneously
assume that all transgendered women are escorts.
It is only when you have been exposed to a large cross section of trans
women over a period of time that you may be able to make an accurate
assessment.
There are many transwomen who are off the radar, who live in varying
degrees of stealth, often not even known to other transwomen.
So once again, to re-iterate to you and others, the transwomen you may
know of may either fall into two categories, highly attractive sex workers,
or transwomen who do not pass very well.
However the reality lies somewhere in between.
Well gotta go, have to get back to work. :wink:
I 'm still reading the study, so I can't comment on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by justatransgirl
250,000 escorts, crikey I think we are approaching market saturation. :shock:
I wonder about your figure of 750,000 transseuxuals. Are you referring to
the total transgendered and gender variant populace, if so, when you get
a chance please take look at these figures
http://www.hungangels.com/board/view...=12755&start=0
I'm also gong to have to beg to differ with the 70% figure in the cities.
I may or may not know some or all the same transwomen that you know,
but of the 70% that I do know, they are not engaged in the sex industry.
I would agree that there are many tranwomen that have lead very
sheltered and cloistered lives. And au contraire to some of the
transwomen that you have alluded to, I by no means have lead a
sheltered life.
My roller coaster life has taken me to some heaven like highs and some
hell like lows, literally and metaphorically. During that ride and currently
I have known transwomen from all stratas, like I was telling my good
friend Unisex.
We also agree that there is a problem, we further agree that education
and a decent standard of living would go a long way to rectifying it.
My question though to you or others with a vested interest in this problem,
is how to we go about making that happen.
Get off your high horse buddy.......Quote:
Originally Posted by Shining Star
And as far as #1 goes, Bill O'Reilly would be proud of you....
I stand corrected.Quote:
Originally Posted by Unisex
I'm going to blame it on my having a 'blonde moment'. I'm seriously
going to have to cut back on the peroxide, it's seeping into my brain. :lol:
On the point about those other chicas, saying than a man will never find
a non escort for a realtionship, tell them Peggy said they need to broaden
their circles too, and that they can feel free to flame me for saying it.
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2...3/flame5x4.jpg
And finally, you may have a better understanding of this 'thing of ours'
than I thought.
You're picking up the lanquage, and that's no shade. 8)
Hi Peggy:Quote:
Originally Posted by peggygee
The first part of this is a reply to your very valid comments. The rest a continuation of my rant... enjoy. :-)
And not meaning to disrespect anyone I tend to get outspokend on occasion so please give me a break and don't flame me, but make any legitimate comments you may have.
I guess we all sometimes need to vent - and with my last post I was really hoping and trying to open a small business. I've put a lot of time into it, and that guy laughing at me the other day and saying to call back in a YEAR to get on a list for a space, after hearing roughly the same thing 20 other times really depressed me.
As to my quote of a figure of 750,000 TS's in the USA. The quote came from the article on Gender - the cover story for the May 21st NEWSWEEK magazine.
The full quote is the "National Center for Transgender Equallity is between 750,000 and 3 MILLION Americans..." are transgendered.
So concieveably if ONLY 30% are in the sex industry it's a MILLION or more not the 250,000 I referenced! My guess is the reality is much less though.
As for my 70% guess - Peggy, your comment is probably true. As I mentioned it was just my own personal "estimate" for my local area, which is a core city center and the "studies" show between 30-and 50% of all MtF's are in the sex industry. T's seem to concentrate in cities like SF, SD, NYC, Seattle, Houston, etc. So places like Tuscon will probably be far less.
But all the studies except the one linked in my first post are grossly out of date. And that one has flawed data.
How can you do a study and come up with realistic figures and leave out (by their own admission, page 49 I think) up to 50% of the subjects. Then things like medical insurance percentages, etc are skewed. On page 28 for example they report 27% of trans people have no health insurance - but if you left out 50% of the community - most of whom are street hookers - you have closer to 75% uninsured.
So all I'm saying is if we are going to toss figures around at least let's get the RIGHT numbers in the first place. People who don't know the reality get a skewed impression.
You ask how do we change it?
According to many people both on this site, and "mainstream" trans community and the world in general, I'm a sleezy whore, so I'm not sure you will like the rest of this.
But here's what I see...
The "mainstream" trans community doesn't seem to have a clue. I was recently at the Western TS Leadership Conference at USC, where about 250 program leaders and other transfolk were present.
One lady was crowing about a job fair they had put on. And that is great, and I understand that the trans civil rights movement is less than 10 years old (Stonewall notwithstanding) and it IS a CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT. She was proud, they had the police dept, and Northrup and other areospace companies. She couldn't tell me how many people had been hired though.
My guess would be none... because as I told her "half the ts community" has either mental problems or an arrest record or both, and the PD isn't going to hire them, most don't have engineering degrees and Boeing sure isn't going to hire them...
I was told I was too critical. I asked her what she does for work? She's an attorney. She makes her 250 grand a year...
THIS is one problem. Half the community has no clue how the other half lives and doesn't want to know. The half that COULD make a difference doesn't want anything to do with those who really need assistance.
So it falls to either government or non-profits.
Government in the guise of law enforcement wants one thing. To put all sex workers in jail so they can justify their jobs. NOWHERE is there any program that I am aware of to help ensure sex workers are able to successfully transition out of the field. In San Diego, they put girls under 18 in jail for 6 months - while the "johns" walk with a ticket. This destroys the girls future and their self respect and teaches them they are bad people and doing something wrong. Sex, even sex for money is NOT wrong unless you have some sort of religious skewed viewpoint. And sex by the hour or sex by getting married , the guy still pays the end.
There are splintered non-profit groups all over the place, many are getting grant money. But in most places there are virtually NO services. In San Diego there is NO support group (a couple of small grassroots attempts). What there was fell apart.
The local Center drove the young adults out of their youth center a couple of years ago, limiting the center to those under 18 or 20 (I forget). But it's the 20-26 year old group who needs a LOT of support. They are just starting out, often barely making it. My young partner (she was 21) was getting her only meal of the day from the youth center before we met, as were other trans kids. These kids were just told one day they could not longer use the facility.
And then they wonder why kids turn to sex work. Takes a genuis to figure that one out???
A small group of the young adults has since been trying to keep a small support group together. The Center provids them a room once a week, and zero funding. And so what did the gay and trans community do last year - the leader of the group was a prostitute on the side. They found out, gave her an award and kicked her ass out the door. I swear to God. The message sent by our own community is "prostitutes need not apply."
In LA there is the Gender Center, a for-profit business, and in Orange County a very small grass roots group. That's it for TS support in So Cal one of the top three TS centers in the nation.
There is NO support for TS sex workers (that I am aware of).
Here in San Diego there was a $300,000 grant given to a local agency for TG services and god knows where the money went. I've seen their workers handing out condoms at a bar on two occasions... They even gave me 5. giggle... Gee thanks, I'll try not to use them all the same day. (I get them by the case BTW.)
Let's start there:
Sex workers don't need condoms, THEY NEED JOBS, AND JOB TRAINING AND DECENT PLACES TO LIVE.
It's just dumb to expect people with no job skills who can make six figures part time without geting out of bed, to take a menial job at minumum wage. It just isn't going to happen. Youcan make people feel bad about themselves all you want - but sweeties - let me tell you it's a lot more miserable to be unhappy if you are poor than if you are rich. I've been both.
They need nuturing support organizations where they can go consistantly to get help with the various things in life. They need access to counseling - not counseling as happened to a girlfriend of mine who was depressed so her counselor had her locked up on a 5150 (mental arrest) when she opened up about how she truly felt. If you want to alienate and drive people out of the system that's a great way to start. That girl will never trust or go to a counselor again and probably will eventually kill herself.
Sex workeres need EASY access to RESPECTFUL, no hassel, std testing on a REGULAR basis. Here in San Diego we have to use several different clinics as they don't want to test you here unless you are showing symptoms of an std or do an hiv test more than every 3 months.
Then we need... and not just sex workers, but ALL trans people. We need programs funded to assist trans people into careers they are capable of doing. Not everyone is interested or able to attend college. Some want to be car mechanics, or cosmeticians or nurses.
There are programs available, but trans people often don't know about them or have access and many are simply unable to negociate the paperwork required to enroll. Oftentimes these programs are discriminatory and difficult to get into - or lead to industries that are not condusive to transsexuals - welding, construction, etc.
MANY transsexuals are simply not capable of working at all due to medical or mental issues. Those people are mostly covered after drug or suicide intervention they get on disability and have a least a minimal subsistance.
It's the rest who need services and assistance. Especially those in the sex industry and those who are isolated by conditions - I correspond occasionally with a young T-girl friend of ours living in a tiny "company town" in Alaska. I am hoping she doesn't off herself or get murdered by some drunk local homophobe before she is able to get out. She is alone and virtually at one end of the world and well on her way to alcoholisim at age 21.
Many trans people, while they are socially and educationally functional need assistance with things like procurring student loans, they need special assistance in preparing for and obtaining GOOD jobs at a reasonable wage. Negociating the bureaucratic morrass is virtually insurmountable for many if not most people. Just dealing with my partners students loans and college transfer has been damm near a full time job since last fall.
My partner and I do not live extravagantly. Our one car is 5 years old. We live in a moderatly upscale apt. community with a pool, spa and health center, etc. a nice part of town. We enjoy a middle class lifestyle, as do most sex workers I know. But between rent, food, gas, insurance, (no medical - add another $400 a month for that) school supplies, hormones, etc our expenses push $4,000 a month.
We could quit the biz, each get two f/t jobs, Jessica could drop out of school thereby ensuring she never has a chance in life, and just squeek by, until somebody got sick. We wouldn't be in the sex industry but two years ago we were living in a motel, three days from the street. So we did what we did, and we do what we do. And YES, it so happens that for the most part I DO like what I do - jeeze I get paid to have sex with my lover... who can say that. Giggle. But do I want to do it forever? No.
So the first step needs to be acceptance of others by those in our own community (and on this site) who's lives may not corrsepond to others. The trans community demands acceptance, but I've found many trans people to be the most unaccepting people I know.
The second is we need to orgainze groups who can obtain serious grant money to offer services. This money is coming available as we become more visible in the world.
Third we need to develop programs to train and educate and FOLLOW UP with trans folk, on a local and national level.
We also need to continue the inroads on basic CIVIL and HUMAN rights laws and protections. California is pretty good, but the rest of the nation needs to follow. We need to deal with the "real ID" act laws and gender ID and stop jailing people according to their genitals.
We need to be visible in the community and PROUD of who we are.
We need to join together, pool our funds and open trans OWNED businesses.
We need to eliminate the repressive laws that penalize women for having sex.
We need to realize and accept that we are all individuals and we need to be tolerant of each other.
End of rant.
Giggle,
TS Jamie[/u]
Woah, but there is a huge difference between transgendered and transsexual... since TG is such a catch-all term.Quote:
The full quote is the "National Center for Transgender Equallity is between 750,000 and 3 MILLION Americans..." are transgendered.
It was my understanding that this thread was talking about people who have, or in the process of transitioning and employment which IMO is vastly different from the experiences of say, "a normal person in the mainstream" married with kids who cds in the bedroom when no one is home in complete privacy....
I don't mean that as to imply I believe one condition is superior to the other, just that they are different enough to have different impacts on a daily bases (this is a generalization of course). I also am under the impression that cd/tv is vastly more common then G.I.D. and subsequently if we're looking at 3/4 of a mill to 3 mill, the number of strictly TS people will be significantly less than that- probably less than half IMO.
Of course, I also question any statistics that tries to predict how many people are trans given how many people (of both conditions to look at this as a medical standpoint) try to avoid being known as trans (be it a closeted cd/tv or a ts in stealth- or rather trying to be in the illusion of stealth). How exactly did the study arrive at that statistic? Can it be trusted?
Random thoughts...
When every other escort is a transsexual and transsexuals are only one of every 10,000 (?) people...it creates a perception and perception more often than not becomes reality.
I am waiting for the day when being the most beautiful or sexy is not mutually exclusive from finding cures, getting a pulitzer or nobel prize, being a leader.
More often than not, the most attractive women are not the most attractive.
Change, adapt, have courage. And others will have the courage to change and adapt to you. Don't wait, do.
Oh wow. You nailed it!Quote:
Originally Posted by justatransgirl
Bravo!
I so agree with what you wrote above. It's not just about having the programs, it's about following through on the programs and with girls. It's about all of us working together being proud of who we are!!!
If I could, I'd ask you to have my baby!! Who knows, maybe some trans scientist will come up with a way! :)
:claps :claps :claps :claps :claps :claps :rock2 :rock2 :rock2 :rock2 :rock2 :claps :claps :claps :claps :claps
I made some similar points when I discussed alternatives to escorting. My points were ignored though :roll: Your rant should be a sticky for all the girls to see.Quote:
Originally Posted by justatransgirl
I agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabuki
I'm not talking about justifying to yourself breaking the law. There's nothing wrong with breaking the law.Quote:
Originally Posted by SarahG
I mean justifying it to yourself morally.
But if someone is ok with doing it, then yeah, they should just go for it.
But it i s not illegal everywhere in this country let alone everywhere in western civilization...Quote:
Originally Posted by odelay24
Just a transgirl your "rant" was the best thing I have read about this in a long time. Bravo.
I second that emotion.Quote:
Originally Posted by BrendaQG
I'm hoping to have some thoughts and
feedback imminently, but in the mean time;
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2...handsclap1.gif
Well done!
Hello everyone. I have to say that I have a regular job and nobody knows about it on my work place that i'm a tranwoman. I'm a certified caregiver for seniors. And i'm very happy with my income in terms of my transition. But I have to admit, I have done escorting too and all of those things a year ago. But now that I could actually achieve my goals without escorting, it makes me feel more happy with myself.I feel at peace with what I am doing in this lifetime. I do live a stealth life right now and very happy about it. But I have to say those girls that are there escorting...I salute to their braveness. I myself could not handle that kind of lifestyle and so I decided to let go of that job. :D
I have a great day job and escort as well
www.youtube.com/kiraharden
www.myspace.com/kiraharden
You mean there are people out there who make $12 an hour? I bet they have huge mansions.
Seriously, I'm not an unintelligent person, and when I do work, I bust my ass to do everything efficiently, intelligently, and 100% correctly.
So why do I keep getting stuck with shit jobs? What does everyone else seem to know that I don't?
I mean... where the hell do you FIND jobs that pay more than $9 an hour? Do you have to be in some secret society to know about them?
Transfriendly Job ListingsQuote:
Originally Posted by youcancallmeclaire
And here's the secret handshake.
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2...thandshake.gif