Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicki Richter
Even though you're probably wrong for that, I laughed.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicki Richter
Even though you're probably wrong for that, I laughed.
Again, I say congrats to Buck, he's a true pioneer and appears from his posts and rep to be a nice guy as well. Yet I basically agree with Vicki's comments, the only problem being that there is no category for Buck otherwise. How many transmen are doing porn? Two? (Buck and Diesel?) That's not a category, and his work should be respected and considered. Yet Vicki's point holds that TS who have worked so hard to become the women they are inside should not be compared to men, and likewise TS who have worked so hard to become the men they are inside shouldn't be compared to women. The categories are quite distinct in this regard. But until there are sufficient transmen in porn to justify their own category, what do you do? Ignore them? Bad. Put them in with the TS women? Bad. Lump them in some "freak" category? Really bad.
So props to Buck for winning, but there are some basic problems with porn taxonomy.
true there b1!Quote:
Originally Posted by BeardedOne
You know I feel very sad that my sisters are so pissed that I won an award that I deserved. AVN had the balls to give it to me. Again please read what the award is given for.
I have fought my way into an industry that was so closed minded to me. Most all of you were not the first. You had someone open the door for you. Well that is what I am doing. I am the first Transsexual man pornstar. It is because of me that guys like Deisel can even think of doing this.
I am a pioneer in an industry that does not like change. They wanted to make me into a freak I stood my ground. If you read the many interviews I have done around the world you will see. And yes I have had tons of exposure this last year because I fucking work my ass off with no backing. This is all my own company. I do not have a big studio behind me like most of you girls. I do not escort to make money I only do porn films to make my living.
Jesus christ Vicki you of all people should just be happy. You know your good friend Danille that you told not to do a movie with has already contacted me to do one. Because she sees the value in what I am doing.
How many mainstream shows have you been on? How much mainstream exposure do you give us porn transsexuals. I bet nothing like what I do and will in the next year. Sorry you think I don't deserve this award but I have it and it is mine because I deserve it. I really was hoping to get more of a positive feedback from you but you have showed your true colors to bad for you.
Proudly,
Buck Angel
2007 AVN Transsexual Performer of the Year
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buck Angel
You go Buck! You should be proud.
So who is next on your tgirl list to do a video shoot with?
seanchai
congrats buck :lol:
No disrespect to anyone involved, but having a lump all category like Best Transsexual, with one FTM and 5 MTF, is like having a Best Pet contest with 1 dog and 5 cats. The 5 cats will split the cat fans votes while the dog will get all the pro-dog votes and all the anti-cat ones . If the voters were evenly divided between cat fans and dog fans, the dog would get 50 per cent of the votes, and the cats would average 10 per cent each. Thats a huge margin, and it means that if only 25 per cent of the dog fans voted, the dog would still probably get more votes than any one cat would. Even if there are way more cat fans than dog fans, say 4 to 1 or 80 per cent to 20 per cent, the dog would get 20 per cent of the votes and the cats would average at 16 per cent of the vote. Similarly, if only 10 or 20 per cent of the voters were cat haters and would never vote for a cat, the dog would likely get more anti-cat votes than the total pro cat votes than any single cat would get. Its pretty close to impossible for a cat to win under those circumstances.
But Buck ddn't make the rules, and its unfair to blame him for their result. Congrats to him for the award and to all the nominees. It really is an honor to be recognized for your work.
FK
Your analogy is in-correct. It would be like having a Best Pet Performance and the award would be given on the best performance - not the individual pet - or one group of persons preference for a certain pet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Felicia Katt
Buck was voted the PERFORMER among a few PERFORMERS - the fact he's a dog and the rest were pussies, isn't the issue.
seanchai
Unless there are some objective, quantifiable parts to the performances here that I am unaware of, this is a case of entirely subjective assessments and my analogy holds. It doesn't matter if you are comparing 1 dog to 5 cats, or one pet fetching sticks to 5 others playing with yarn, when comparing one excelllent but unique performance or performer to 5 other excellent but similar performances or performers , the unique one will almost always get more votes.Quote:
Originally Posted by seanchai
Instead of going back and forth like cats and dogs on this issse, can we agree that Avn should be in the doghouse for barely throwing transgender performers and performances a bone? I mean, they have separate awards for best actor and actess for video and film for straight productions? They lump all transsexuals into one category but they think that film and video productions need to be separate? AVN has 4 best straight performer awards and about 8 other categories to recognize and honor other straight performers (best newcomer, crossover, best solo etc etc) and just one for Transgender, and dozens of awards for best movies and scenes for straight video and just one of each for transgender productions. That is just wrong, or as they say down south, "That dog won't hunt"
FK
Nope your analogy is completely wrong - which is why we have Best Actor role in the Oscars and not a Best Caucasion Actor, Best Latin Actor, etc. I wasn't really expecting you to admit an error, god forbid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Felicia Katt
Also, AVN is Adult Video News. Transsexual adult videos, although huge to us in the scene, are not that big a niche within the overall market, it's small so having three awards in the transgender category would seem fair enough to me. There are plenty of other niches which only get partial representation.
What we might want to get away from is the fact that AVN is the be all and end all of everything. It's not - it's a promotional magazine that advertises videos/DVDs for the industry. There is no panel of judges from the industry peers (that I know of), there is not voting from consumers - the awards are chosen by a handul of people who work for AVN. Winning an award doesn't make or break a performer or a DVD, it's nice as a bit of flash on the cover of the box and for bragging rights but that's about it.
In fact, I think we'll withdraw from even putting in nominations next year and re-write our box covers "AVN AWARD Winner - Never" to see if it affects sales.
seanchai
Does the Adult Film Industry have a "Peoples Choice Award" that would award the performer voted by the consumer. (of course they'd have to call it something else)
Perhaps the Industry should take example from Mainstream Film and offer more than 1 venue held by a private corporation.
I think this is another good analogy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Felicia Katt
Again, what is done is done. I have congratulated you Buck. I don't have to agree with the outcome though. Regardless you won an award against girls. Nice job. It's like the Lakers beating a WNBA team in Summer league and saying how they deserved it because they were the better basketball players. It's like Mike Tyson in his prime knocking out Oprah Winfrey and her 4 best friends in one match and then saying how he is the best boxer. Frankly I wish you could understand why it is unfair to rank men against women in contests regardless of them being gender fucks or genetic.
People read this and say, "there is the cunt Vicki again" or "there is evil Vicki"... but I just don't believe male and female performers should ever be ranked against one another in a category dealing with sex, physical attributes, or performance. I don't care if it's unfair and you don't have your own because you are the only one. Your the lone 2006 TS man in porn and you beat a potential 1,000 TS girl performers.
Can I put up my Vicki on a cross image again? Can I please, please :twisted:
Oh maybe not...
seanchai
You know Vicki ......your not evil or trying to be a cunt(not that thats a bad thing).Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicki Richter
But your focus on Buck is WRONG!!!
Its the industry of people you look up to who are in my opinion nothing but homophobes and transphobes!
Get into it!
If you REALLY want to get straight to the point I think Vaniity should have won EVERY year because she draws in more people to watch tranny porn because they dont believe she has a dick.
Now I could say "Vicki....you and the other girls will NEVER compare to Vaniity,Vaniity is this and that and such as such....
That would be wrong to say........
This world is about VARIETY.
Different strokes for different folks.
I applaud Buck and guess what he passes better than you so now what?
Transexuals arent even accepted in GAY soceity......they are tolerated.
Stop being negative towards your own.......
If you girls would work together you could accomplish more.
How come there are no awards by transexuals themselves?
Why are you looking to the dominant culture for awards and acceptance?
Its all about harmony and unity and being self sufficent.
Screw the adult industry.
They fuck over genetic girls.
Beautiful ones.
Get real and get active.
And as a sometimes user of tranny porn Im willing to do my part.
Peace
I agree with Naomi Katsumi Is it me or Jenna Jameson get's an award every fucking year
Ion think Hillary Scott shoulda got performer of the year i think Bella or even Naomi Shoulda got it
No Steve Holmes No Manuel Ferrera that list is pretty much bullshit
What the hell is a buck angel anyway
What the hell is a michneo anyway?Quote:
Originally Posted by michneo
Jeez - you certainly no how to make yourself sound really really dumb.
seanchai
When I'm wrong I'll readily admit it, but your just saying so, absent any proof or support, doesn't make it so. Your comparison to the Oscars is an example of a flawed analogy. They don't have a best performer category. They have best actor and best actress. Some have argued that its unfair to compare dramatic and comedic performances against each other, which is maybe why other awards tend to have two separate categories.Quote:
Originally Posted by seanchai
Vicki's analogies don't really track either. I'm sure Buck is a very talented performer, but he isn't the NBA to the WNBA or Tyson to Oprah. Boxing and Basketball are largely objectively decided. The person or team who scores the most points or inflicts the most damage wins. Frankly, my money would be on Oprah, but I digress
None of this is really relevant to the point I made, which is a well documented and often exploited dynamic of elections. Where you have one unique candidate being compared or competing with mutliple similar candidates, the unique one has a very distinct advantage. Its about dilution of support. Thats why political parties have run "false flag" candidates. A candidate who might lose 40 per cent to 60 percent to one candidate can win against 2, who each get 30 per cent. Bush won in small part in 2000 because Nader drew votes that would have gone to Gore in a two man race. Clinton probably benefitted from Perot in somewhat the same fashion, though Perot was more of a centrist and arguably drew support from both sides.
No matter how you frame the analogy. it won't hang true if the comparison is weighted too heavily to one side. Best beverage can't compare 5 pinots to one ale. Best Vehicle can't be 5 Ferraris to one Lambo so on and so forth. and Apples to Oranges don't compare, especially if you put up a Navel against a Pippin, a Golden Delicious, a Mcintosh and a Granny Smith
FK
Yeah but your wrong - and it's not my saying so, it's obvious and common sense. Your completely and utterly wrong. Black and white - so don't twist the facts to fit your desires.
What happened to you? You used to post informative and interesting posts on a number of topics, you now only jump in when it appears that one of your chums has been slighted in some way? Somebody hits the bat light for an excellent litigator and you come running, like a dog - not a cat.
Buck is not a dog - and he wasn't competing with cats. It was Best Transsexual Performer - move on this just stinks of sour grapes.
seanchai
I'll admit I was wrong, to try to have a reasoned discussion. I offer an analogy. You simply say its wrong but can't or won't say how. When you offer an analogy of your own, I say its flawed (not wrong) and then point out just how I think its flawed. (btw, I also point out the flaws in Vicki's arguments, slighting my own "chum" in your words). I then explain and expound and expand on my own analogy and you ignore what I say, and just reiterate that its wrong because you say its obvious and against common sense, again without saying how.
And then you accuse me of twisting the facts? What fact did I twist? The only fact in play is that at the AVN, one FTM performance somehow competes against 5 MTF ones. Thats it. Thats all.
You say Buck's performance was the best Transsexual one. Do you really think it would stack up, one on one, against every other nominated performance? Nothing against Buck, and not to take anything away from his accomplishments, but I think the answer to that question is obvious and common sense.
After ignoring the gist of, or not responding to my message, you then attack the messenger. Its true I don't post here often any more because very little is discussed of any interest to me anymore. Politics and Religion are off on their own online leper colony and what few substantive discussions that make the mainland quickly devolve into personal attacks. So we are clear, I never said Buck was a dog, or the other girls were pussys. That's your twist. Sour Grapes? I never argued who should have won, only that it was virtually impossible for any nominated girl to do so under the circumstances. Buck is a brave and talented performer deserving of recognition and the other nominees are all beautiful and talented and deserving too. But incomparably so.
moving on
FK
You probably need to. I will stop. I think I made my point. I just get passionate about some things that I probably don't need to.Quote:
Originally Posted by seanchai
In terms of logic and statistical analysis, Felicia is totally on the money here: "Where you have one unique candidate being compared or competing with mutliple similar candidates, the unique one has a very distinct advantage. Its about dilution of support." This is a basic principle of statistical analysis, and Felicia goes on to illustrate this point with several valid examples. Even (and especially) if one fully accepts the idea that there should be just one "best transsexual performer" category, the analysis holds true that the unique candidate has an inherent advantage over multiple similar candidates. That's not to in any way denigrate Buck's performance or accomplishments: those stand on their own merits (and bravo).Quote:
Originally Posted by Felicia Katt
There's another side to this, I think: that is that, to the best of my understanding as a non-transgendered person, M2F TS want to be regarded as women, not as men or as TS, and F2M TS want to be regarded as men, not as women or as TS. Only in the realm of porn do they want to be recognized as TS. Am I wrong about this? Do TS women(men) want to be grouped with TS men(women) because they happen to both be transgendered? I don't think so. But we have well-intentioned positioning on both sides arguing that it's most fair to a) group them together in one category or b) group them separately in different categories.
I have to agree with Vicki. Sorry. It seems very clear cut to me. Different category altogether.