So real men don't drink Bud Light?

I am kind of in shock at some of the posts in this thread. I can't believe anyone who frequents this forum could be generally supportive and quote WOKE (which is just a term used for bigots to legitimise their bigotry) to the right wing loons that are using this to fuel their hate.

Whatever you think about Dylan is irrelevant, the issue here is much greater, it's one where transphobic, rhetoric and hate is being platformed, there are threats of violence over a persons being used by a few companies to promote their products, it's down right ridiculous and a danger to a already persecuted community.

We who admire trans women should be supporting the community not enabling those with hate filled agendas to propagate their bigotry. I am shocked and disappointed with folks in this thread.

I remain in awe of he strength of trans women to have the bravery to come out to the world and show it what they truly are when this world is so full of pretty horrid people.

I have no desire to debate further, I will not respond further so don't bother trying to justify your stance. This is very much a drop the mic post but I had to get this off my chest. Shame on you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by filghy2

I know that people can have different views on things like female sports without necessarily being transphobic, but if you can't answer yes to these questions then I can't see how you can possibly be sympathetic to trans.

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This is the core of what I object to most here. He is using the fact that some activists have said some extreme things about issues that are worthy of thoughtful discussion as an excuse to ignore flagrant transphobia. If a Jewish person in one situation says something is antisemitic when it's not, would that justify defending unambiguous antisemitism when you see it? Ditto a Black person, a Muslim, a gay man, etc. It is an excuse because people are capable of discernment. It really reminds me of the twitter users who underneath every news article about a hate crime will post an old article about the rare time that there was a false flag on that same kind of hate. It is underhanded and dishonest.

It would be one thing if he said he wasn't sure whether transgender women have an unfair physical advantage in sports over cisgender women and you'd like to discuss it. But if he wanted to do that, he'd do that and wouldn't do more. But he is doing more. He's supporting a boycott of a beer because a transgender woman is part of their promotional campaign. That implies that transgender representation is unwholesome, or embarrassing, or should be discouraged. You really can't defend it and be sympathetic to the community.

I also don't buy that it was shoved down anyone's throat. The only time I saw anything about it was from the right-wing outrage machine. But the issue here is very straightforward. Look at your excellent second question? Are transgender people permitted the same visibility in public, the same representation in public roles as everyone else or will we always find an excuse and say, "I'm not against them but this is being forced on us." Well fuck. Any time anyone appears in an ad they are being forced on us but if we don't object to their appearance in the ad, life goes on and we buy the product or we don't.

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Originally Posted by mildcigar_2001

Not much of a fuss would have been made if Caitlyn Jenner or even RuPaul was featured in the advertising, and beer sales might have actually increased.

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Rupaul is not a transgender woman but is a drag queen. So basically you're saying that Caitlyn Jenner is the one transgender woman who is permitted to hold a public role. Everything you say in this post is belied by the fact that the comments section under every right-wing article about a transgender politician or public figure is filled with contempt. People calling mtf transsexuals men, calling them delusional, and just making spiteful comments. I've also seen the twitter feeds of right-wing commentators with over a million followers doing the exact same thing. I don't know who you think you're fooling. The objection of many within this right-wing subculture is to the presence of transgender men or women either in serious roles or in advertisements of things they like.

All American Citizens Are Equal Before the Law. Discuss.

Attachment 1417376Attachment 1417375Attachment 1417374

There are a bunch of hashtags going around
Like

"
people still can not change their sex.


#TransIsALie
#TranswomanAreConMen

"

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Originally Posted by broncofan

So basically you're saying that Caitlyn Jenner is the one transgender woman who is permitted to hold a public role.

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And also happens to be a Republican supporter. Is the premise that the only trans right-wingers will accept are those that are on their side?

I could maybe understand the woke agenda argument if they had partnered with a trans rights activist. However, the only controversial thing about Dylan Mulvaney seems to be the fact that she's trans.

Suppose Bud Light had partnered with, say, a disabled person who had a big social media following. Would we be hearing a lot of fuss about woke agendas forcing disabled people down their throats and how this had nothing to do with selling beer? I don't think so.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by broncofan

This is the core of what I object to most here. He is using the fact that some activists have said some extreme things about issues that are worthy of thoughtful discussion as an excuse to ignore flagrant transphobia.

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I wonder what the thinking process is behind his constant refrain about provoking a backlash? Is he suggesting these people start off thinking trans people are fine and shouldn't be abused or discriminated against; they see Lia Thomas or some trans activist and decide that abuse or discrimination against trans are okay after all?

There's a lot of victim-blaming going on here. The fault is not with the transphobes; the fault is with trans for doing things that provoke them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by filghy2

I wonder what the thinking process is behind his constant refrain about provoking a backlash? Is he suggesting these people start off thinking trans people are fine and shouldn't be abused or discriminated against; they see Lia Thomas or some trans activist and decide that abuse or discrimination against trans are okay after all?

There's a lot of victim-blaming going on here. The fault is not with the transphobes; the fault is with trans for doing things that provoke them.

---

I think that's the facade. They imply they would have no problem with transsexuals if not for a position that some individual took that really ticked them off. And whichever person they're currently mistreating doesn't even have to be the person who ticked them off because it's backlash. The problem for them is that we can see the tweets of tens of thousands of so-called moderate Republicans calling the transgender U.S. Assistant secretary for health every name in the book and creating unflattering memes to mock her for being transsexual.

They're pretending this is marginal stuff and there's this very reasonable, yet silent majority who are just fed up with seeing a transgender person once every several months (they think the interval should be longer).

I'm telling you since Elon got ahold of twitter, every civil rights organization on there gets trolled by not just groypers, but lots of Republicans posting under their own names. To them, all of these organizations are the cause of bigotry, and they're justified in spewing all sorts of inflammatory, misleading, subliterate nonsense at them because they caused the.......ummm backlash.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by broncofan

They imply they would have no problem with transsexuals if not for a position that some individual took that really ticked them off. And whichever person they're currently mistreating doesn't even have to be the person who ticked them off because it's backlash.

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Not that this would be okay anyway because it's bigotry to blame a member of a group for the actions of some other member of that group. But in this case it doesn't even makes sense. The malice has always been there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by broncofan

They're pretending this is marginal stuff and there's this very reasonable, yet silent majority who are just fed up with seeing a transgender person once every several months (they think the interval should be longer).

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This is the essence of the problem in the US. The supposedly normal, decent Republicans (as mildcigar clearly thinks he is) excuse all sorts of bad behaviour on their side because they've been conditioned to see the world in 'us vs them' terms. Things they don't like are not a normal part of a pluralistic society, but are as result of malign conspiracies (eg the 'woke' corporations). This liberates the worst aspects in many people, because they no longer have to fear any negative consequences from their own side.

This never gets old about why you should call out or stand against them, was a punk and skinhead (ska skinhead not the other type)
https://www.upworthy.com/bartender-e...thering-anyone

From the UK and bud light isn't even classed as a beer

So far, neither mildcigar or anyone else has bothered to defined what the "radical trans agenda" is. I suspect that's because there is no such thing, and that mildcigar and his co-ideologists are just using this emotion-packed word (radical) to rile folks up. And "agenda" -- this implies that trans-people and those who respect them have a (hidden) agenda: there's this secret plot to -- what? Again, an emotion-bearing word with no actual meaning.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mildcigar_2001

I think I have general sympathy for transsexuals as a group.

I assume that having gender dysphoria is a hard row to hoe.

I think the opinions expressed by me in this forum and in public for that matter generally support the best interests of transsexual community. I'm sure a good number of my opinions go against the current trans orthodoxy, but that doesn't make me wrong or a hater of transsexuals.

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Truly no lower form of scum than someone who opposes civil rights for the people they jack off to. Creeps like this should be banned.

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Originally Posted by broncofan

You said "I don't think a majority of them hate trans folks." Yet here they are boycotting a beer brand not because of anything controversial but because a transsexual is part of a promotional campaign. That's it.

Yet the only issue here is whether a transgender woman should be part of a promotional campaign.

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This is the typical bullshit slight of hand. Have a problem with Dylan essentially acting as a female caricature, highlighting stereotypes we were all told were wrong? You must be a BiGoT.

It's so transparent and tiresome.

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Originally Posted by filghy2

I could maybe understand the woke agenda argument if they had partnered with a trans rights activist. However, the only controversial thing about Dylan Mulvaney seems to be the fact that she's trans.

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Yawn. More of the same absolute gaslighting.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dirkmcgee

This is the typical bullshit slight of hand. Have a problem with Dylan essentially acting as a female caricature, highlighting stereotypes we were all told were wrong? You must be a BiGoT.

It's so transparent and tiresome.

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Right, so in your view these people are kicking up a stink about Dylan Mulvaney because they object to inappropriate stereotyping of trans?

Nice straw man attempt though. Your concern sounds very sincere.

As you said, transparent and tiresome.

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Originally Posted by Del06

So far, neither mildcigar or anyone else has bothered to defined what the "radical trans agenda" is.

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He has defined "woke" though. "Woke" is anything he doesn't like.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by filghy2

Right, so in your view these people are kicking up a stink about Dylan Mulvaney because they object to inappropriate stereotyping of trans?

Nice straw man attempt though. Your concern sounds very sincere.

As you said, transparent and tiresome.

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They object to Dylan's inappropriate objectifying and stereotyping of women.

They probably also object to Dylan's assertion that men can menstruate.

Acting as though Dylan isn't incredibly problematic destroys any shred of credibility.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thombergeron

Truly no lower form of scum than someone who opposes civil rights for the people they jack off to. Creeps like this should be banned.

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I disagree. As long as they are not stooping to overt nastiness, I think it's better to let them have their say and then confront their views and try to force them to be accountable. That usually demonstrates that their arguments are flimsy, as we've seen here.

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Originally Posted by dirkmcgee

They object to Dylan's inappropriate objectifying and stereotyping of women.

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Right, so Kid Rock and Travis Tritt were really demonstrating their solidarity with feminism?

Who do you think you are fooling? Most of these people think that complaining about objectifying and stereotyping women is "woke".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dirkmcgee

Yawn. More of the same absolute gaslighting.

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BTW, thanks for going to the trouble of downvoting my 5-year old posts in another thread. Very adult. Was that little frenzy cathartic for you?

love how this mouthbreather accuses you of gaslighting then says "these alcoholic misogynists were just protecting women!"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mildcigar_2001

The above marketing faux pas combined with the recent push to normalize transsexuals in Women's sports and Drag queen story hours, are helping create a backlash against trans folks that just want to live their lives.

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So much for your backlash.
https://www.prri.org/research/findin...-values-atlas/

"Eight in ten Americans (80%) favor laws that would protect gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender people against discrimination in jobs, public accommodations, and housing. This includes 48% who strongly support such laws. About one in five Americans (18%) oppose these laws, including 7% who strongly oppose them. Support for these protections has increased over the past few years: around seven in ten Americans favored nondiscrimination provisions in 2015 (71%), 2017 (70%), 2018 (69%), and 2019 (72%), before rising to 76% in 2020 and 79% in 2021.[5]

Overwhelming shares of Democrats (90%) and independents (82%), as well as two-thirds of Republicans (66%), favor nondiscrimination provisions for LGBTQ people. Since 2015, support has increased by 12 percentage points among Democrats (78% to 90%) and nine percentage points among independents (73% to 82%). Support among Republicans has increased by five percentage points (61% to 66%)."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dirkmcgee

This is the typical bullshit slight of hand. Have a problem with Dylan essentially acting as a female caricature, highlighting stereotypes we were all told were wrong? You must be a BiGoT.

It's so transparent and tiresome.

---

Dylan isn't a caricature of a woman. She is a woman, you closeted trash.

Why are people getting so upset and angry about issues which do not concern 90% of the population? There are not enough Trans people to change a vote, while the real issue for me, citizens with equal rights before the law, is rarely discussed. It seems some people are more equal than others.

I can understand some of the militants forcing their views into the public mind through stunts and posts on social media which are designed to be provocative, but that ought not to detract from the real issues that Trans people face, wherever they live. The weaponization of Trans issues by Trump and De Santis is a mark of their weakness, their failure to collect together a basket of policies that affect the majority of Americans. They end up sounding like basket cases, and in time I think the voters will reject the increasingly autocratic politics.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by filghy2

So much for your backlash.
https://www.prri.org/research/findin...-values-atlas/

"Eight in ten Americans (80%) favor laws that would protect gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender people against discrimination in jobs, public accommodations, and housing. This includes 48% who strongly support such laws. About one in five Americans (18%) oppose these laws, including 7% who strongly oppose them. Support for these protections has increased over the past few years: around seven in ten Americans favored nondiscrimination provisions in 2015 (71%), 2017 (70%), 2018 (69%), and 2019 (72%), before rising to 76% in 2020 and 79% in 2021.[5]

Overwhelming shares of Democrats (90%) and independents (82%), as well as two-thirds of Republicans (66%), favor nondiscrimination provisions for LGBTQ people. Since 2015, support has increased by 12 percentage points among Democrats (78% to 90%) and nine percentage points among independents (73% to 82%). Support among Republicans has increased by five percentage points (61% to 66%)."

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These dipshits are so convinced that they're red-hot Americans they have no idea that most people don't give a shit about their culture war garbage. This dude is like "I don't have an MBA but..." Yeah bud, you also don't know that Bud Light has been the cheap beer of choice at Pride for decades. Pretty sure the MBAs working for Anheuser-Busch know that.

This dirkmcgee fella is a silly coward. What a pathetic little closet case.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dirkmcgee

They object to Dylan's inappropriate objectifying and stereotyping of women.

They probably also object to Dylan's assertion that men can menstruate.

Acting as though Dylan isn't incredibly problematic destroys any shred of credibility.

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Problematic? The people objecting to Dylan representing budweiser are doing so for reasons they're clear about. They call mtf transsexuals "men", "perverts", they blame Jews for some conspiracy to mainstream transgender rights. You're a giant phony.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dirkmcgee

This is the typical bullshit slight of hand. Have a problem with Dylan essentially acting as a female caricature, highlighting stereotypes we were all told were wrong? You must be a BiGoT.

It's so transparent and tiresome.

---

You don't even know how to spell sleight of hand you moron. Why haven't any of the transphobes who are boycotting Budweiser and who btw also think transgender people are responsible for a large share of gun violence
making this argument?

Why are they spending their entire days pretending that transgender people are all groomers and that nobody transitions unless they're delusional? I can link some of the responses to calls to boycott Budweiser if you'd like?

We can all see the arguments being made by the Nazi trash you're defending and none of these people are feminists.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by filghy2

Right, so Kid Rock and Travis Tritt were really demonstrating their solidarity with feminism?

Who do you think you are fooling? Most of these people think that complaining about objectifying and stereotyping women is "woke".

---

Kid Rock is a third wave feminist and while he loves and cherishes transgender women, he feels passionately that women's reproductive healthcare, including contraception and access to abortion need to be prioritized. He is going to be passing out pregnancy tests outside the women's hospital and reminding women to get their pap smears. Just look for the guy with the goatee and the pussy hat.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by broncofan

This dirkmcgee fella is a silly coward. What a pathetic little closet case.

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Dirkmcgee is a grub with no redeeming traits. I have more sympathy for the other guy, who may be well-intentioned but too influenced by what he sees in right-wing media. He did at least have the integrity stay and debate the issue for some time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by broncofan

Kid Rock is a third wave feminist and while he loves and cherishes transgender women, he feels passionately that women's reproductive healthcare, including contraception and access to abortion need to be prioritized. He is going to be passing out pregnancy tests outside the women's hospital and reminding women to get their pap smears. Just look for the guy with the goatee and the pussy hat.

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Lol, because if anyone speaks for the entirety of anyone right leaning it's fucking Kid Rock. Without even touching the AcCeSs tO aBoRtIoN quip as if the pro-life community isn't under consistent and violent attack.

Imbecile. Bonus points for stupidity re: the NaZi drop two comments ago, which is the literal lowest common denominator of political discourse (yet of course despite being a hallmark of leftist simpletons, only Gina Carano gets in trouble for such idiocy).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by filghy2

Dirkmcgee is a grub with no redeeming traits. I have more sympathy for the other guy, who may be well-intentioned but too influenced by what he sees in right-wing media. He did at least have the integrity stay and debate the issue for some time.

---

Lol, the iron law of woke projection always applies, but fuck you too you propagandist piece of shit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thombergeron

These dipshits are so convinced that they're red-hot Americans they have no idea that most people don't give a shit about their culture war garbage. This dude is like "I don't have an MBA but..." Yeah bud, you also don't know that Bud Light has been the cheap beer of choice at Pride for decades. Pretty sure the MBAs working for Anheuser-Busch know that.

---

CuLtUrE wAr gArBaGe.

Casual reminder the left has waged a culture war at literally every turn over the last forty years, but when the right finally responds in kind, its "culture war garbage."

And no, Dylan literally identifies as a fucking girl. Not a woman. Nor is womanhood boiled down to her consistently squealing videos about "boys and shopping" it's literal fucking appropriation.

You're the type that would call Blaire White a "traitor" so you can fuck off too, you hypocritical sack of shit. As can Broncofan.

Good for you man. Let it all out. You certainly make a compelling case that you are not a grub and you have many redeeming traits.

Attachment 1417436

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dirkmcgee

CuLtUrE wAr gArBaGe.

Casual reminder the left has waged a culture war at literally every turn over the last forty years, but when the right finally responds in kind, its "culture war garbage."

---

On the other hand, what does this mean?
-Was it the 'Left' that succeeded in getting the Hays Code dropped from the media with regard to Tv and Films? Would you like to see the Hays Code re-instated? Quire a lot of Evangelicals would.

-Do you think the repeal of laws making same-sex relations illegal (and 'Sodomy' is still, technically, illegal in 16 US States) should be reversed, and with it, same-sex marriage rights? Has this been a 'left wing' conspiracy to destroy the family? Or the natural evolution of individual rights as guaranteed in the US Constitution?

-the Supreme Court has all but gutted the Voting Rights Act of 1965 -has this benefited the USA? Should 'the Left' be blamed for promoting it in the first place? And was LBJ a 'left wing' President?

-Has the 'left' promoted the legalization of Marijuana? Has nobody else thought it might be a good idea?

And so on. I think if you are going to dismiss so much of the last 40 years as 'culture war garbage' at least tell us what you want to throw out; and what you want to put back in, or create -and tell us, for whom?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stavros

On the other hand, what does this mean?
-Was it the 'Left' that succeeded in getting the Hays Code dropped from the media with regard to Tv and Films? Would you like to see the Hays Code re-instated? Quire a lot of Evangelicals would.

-Do you think the repeal of laws making same-sex relations illegal (and 'Sodomy' is still, technically, illegal in 16 US States) should be reversed, and with it, same-sex marriage rights? Has this been a 'left wing' conspiracy to destroy the family? Or the natural evolution of individual rights as guaranteed in the US Constitution?

-the Supreme Court has all but gutted the Voting Rights Act of 1965 -has this benefited the USA? Should 'the Left' be blamed for promoting it in the first place? And was LBJ a 'left wing' President?

-Has the 'left' promoted the legalization of Marijuana? Has nobody else thought it might be a good idea?

And so on. I think if you are going to dismiss so much of the last 40 years as 'culture war garbage' at least tell us what you want to throw out; and what you want to put back in, or create -and tell us, for whom?

---

The swing vote for same sex marriage was Anthony Kennedy, widely considered a centrist, if not conservative. Modern polls show conservatives in favor of same sex marriage, but that's never highlighted whereas politicians such as our current president were similarly against it before they were for it. But of course, that's considered an "evolution" as opposed to reading the tea leaves.

Marijuana legalization absolutely is not a hallmark of the left, politicians on the right such as Dana Rohrabacher have been at the forefront of ending the prohibition.

SCOTUS has hardly gutted the voting rights act, this is a blatant falsehood.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dirkmcgee

SCOTUS has hardly gutted the voting rights act, this is a blatant falsehood.

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"Seven years ago today, the supreme court issued one of the most consequential rulings in a generation in a case called Shelby county v Holder. In a 5-4 vote, the court struck down a formula at the heart of the Voting Rights Act, the landmark 1965 law that required certain states and localities with a history of discrimination against minority voters to get changes cleared by the federal government before they went into effect.
It’s hard to overstate the significance of this decision. The power of the Voting Rights Act was in the design that the supreme court gutted – discriminatory voting policies could be blocked before they harmed voters."
In 2013 the supreme court gutted voting rights – how has it changed the US? | US supreme court | The Guardian

It might help if you were to list the policies of the last 40 years for which you hold 'the Left' responsible. Currently, the Republicans are in the process of demolishing as much as they can, most obviously with regard to Abortion -was Roe-vs- Wade solely a 'left wing' policy adopted by SCOTUS?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dirkmcgee

The swing vote for same sex marriage was Anthony Kennedy, widely considered a centrist, if not conservative. Modern polls show conservatives in favor of same sex marriage, but that's never highlighted whereas politicians such as our current president were similarly against it before they were for it. But of course, that's considered an "evolution" as opposed to reading the tea leaves.

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So we should just disregard that fact that the great majority of Republican politicians and judges voted against it?

Your debating technique is like a magician's sleight of hand: a flurry of dubious or irrelevant assertions to distract attention from the real issues and facts: eg, don't look at the all the people trying to promote a transphobic furore over there; look at this trans person promoting female stereotypes over here.