Do looks drive transsexual acceptance... or competenecy

Only recognizing or respecting someone as a person because of his or her competency is bigotry. Krissy is right. It is no different from how racists will concede that there are some good token representatives of the minorities they despise or look down on. I don't see someone as respecting transgender individuals if they only respect them IF they are highly intelligent, highly skilled, have a high paying job, etc.

Ts' (and all people) should be accepted regardless of competency I agree. But that doesn't mean it's unreasonable for people to be respected for developing a competency in an area that contributes to the betterment of society. If it's competency for the sake of accumulating money or seeming respectable then it serves only the purpose of vanity. But a competent doctor deserves to be respected no matter what his/her gender, as does a competent social worker.

While all people should be accepted and respected as human beings, the development of useful skills also contributes to other people's respect for you. The amount that people value it, like appearance, is subject to debate but never really irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by Wendy Summers

So what do you think? What's the path transpeople need to journey on for acceptance in society? Beauty? Competency? Both? Something else?

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I cannot say for sure but I think the path is lessening ignorance about transgender and gender issues by the general public and more and more everyday people meeting, knowing and caring about transgender individual(s) in their day-to-day life.

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Originally Posted by broncofan

Ts' (and all people) should be accepted regardless of competency I agree. But that doesn't mean it's unreasonable for people to be respected for developing a competency in an area that contributes to the betterment of society. If it's competency for the sake of accumulating money or seeming respectable then it serves only the purpose of vanity. But a competent doctor deserves to be respected no matter what his/her gender, as does a competent social worker.

I think what Wendy is getting at is that maybe for ts', factors other than appearance are being unfairly discounted. If appearance is the be all end all of someone's esteem for another person then they're being superficial.

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I understand Wendy's original point, and knowing Wendy somewhat, I would state that I believe she doesn't have a bigoted bone in her attractive body. I just wanted to further the conversation.

Here is another point that I believe is being mistakenly debated. Let's not conflate "acceptance" with "popularity". While the two are related, they are vastly different terms with entirely different meanings. Again, I would submit that you can become "popular" by being "competent" but you cannot gain "acceptance" without teaching, learning, and experience.

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Originally Posted by Jackal

I cannot say for sure but I think the path is lessening ignorance about transgender and gender issues by the general public and more and more everyday people meeting, knowing and caring about transgender individual(s) in their day-to-day life.

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Perfect.

I suppose as long as the word is acceptance and not esteem, then competency should be irrelevant. If someone is only willing to view someone else as human because they have an elite set of skills or hold a profession that is well-respected, it is bigotry.

On the other hand, I don't think there's anything wrong with trying to better yourself so that people know more about you and can relate to you better. It is unfortunately their problem though if their acceptance of you depends on it.

But I think the more access people have to transgender individuals the more likely they will be willing to let go of their prejudices. This is because bigotry can be an abstract thing...it's much more difficult to carry around prejudices when you interact with the people you harbor animosity against. Some people manage it, but I think familiarity helps breed tolerance.

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Originally Posted by GroobyKrissy

Again, I would submit that you can become "popular" by being "competent" but you cannot gain "acceptance" without teaching, learning, and experience.

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I agree with your post. I was conflating acceptance and respect.

I think in this conversation it's also easy to mix up what drives acceptance and what should drive acceptance. Acceptance should never be dependent on competence, but as a descriptive matter it might. In which case, you might then ask how people should respond to unfortunate realities.

:)

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Originally Posted by seanchai

Have you been to bed yet?

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Bed? No I haven't been fucked in over a week.

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Originally Posted by broncofan

I agree with your post. I was conflating acceptance and respect.

I think in this conversation it's also easy to mix up what drives acceptance and what should drive acceptance. Acceptance should never be dependent on competence, but as a descriptive matter it might. In which case, you might then ask how people should respond to unfortunate realities.

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Yeah, I was going to point that out but you just never know how one is going to react here to making waves and such :). Glad you recognized that though :).

I agree... Ideals VS Reality is always difficult to discern. It is easy to speak in terms of "ideally..." but often enough, you've got to lower your expectations based upon reality. Acceptance is certainly one of those terms with plenty of gray area where the two can meet.

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Originally Posted by Wendy Summers

:)

Bed? No I haven't been fucked in over a week.

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Since when is a bed necessary for being fucked? :dancing::dancing:

AS for the acceptance question - I'll let you know when I feel accepted.