Embarassing

The Walmart sign was a judgement too.

kill them and let god sort em out lol or don't go there in the first place

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Originally Posted by Silcc69

I could swear American's are suppose to be more civilized than the Taliban. But I guess i'm wrong.

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I suppose the term civilized can be considered relative...

However, here's what I think:

What these young Marines did was in poor taste...and I wish to God someone, for once, would be smart enough not to record the act and then submit it on the internet....
BUT they didn't chop anyone's head off...they didn't burn anyone to death and hang em from a bridge...they didn't mutilate or rape any little girls cause they thought they committed some type of adultery...need I go on?!

...all they did was urinate on some bodies that are never going to feel it. Someone that would have blown them up or shot em in the head without a moment's thought. Someone who doesn't even consider the barbarity of their acts...ever.

So yeah, I still think we (and those young men) are more civilized...but you can think otherwise...from the safety of your home...same as me.

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Originally Posted by fred41

I suppose the term civilized can be considered relative...

However, here's what I think:

What these young Marines did was in poor taste...and I wish to God someone, for once, would be smart enough not to record the act and then submit it on the internet....
BUT they didn't chop anyone's head off...they didn't burn anyone to death and hang em from a bridge...they didn't mutilate or rape any little girls cause they thought they committed some type of adultery...need I go on?!

...all they did was urinate on some bodies that are never going to feel it. Someone that would have blown them up or shot em in the head without a moment's thought. Someone who doesn't even consider the barbarity of their acts...ever.

So yeah, I still think we (and those young men) are more civilized...but you can think otherwise...from the safety of your home...same as me.

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common sense

Thucydides History of the Peloponessian War, written sometime before the author's death in 400BCE, contains graphic account of atrocities committed by troops from Athens and Sparta, Michael Walzer in Just and Unjust Wars provided a modern assessment of the rules of war as part of his critique of war as a political strategy/gamble, replete with atrocities from Greece to Vietnam -sadly there is nothing new in the humiliation process that takes places, whoever is doing it.

It is important for us to condemn all of it, be it the Marines dragged through the streets of Mogadishu -or in Vietnam (see Joris Ivens film April in Vietnam in the Year of the Cat if you must, even if the pilot was alive at the time)- or hung up on a bridge in Fallujah, or the soldiers who used to cut off the ears of Japanese soldiers to send home to mom; or the conscripted, cold, hungry, badly-led Argentinians summarily executed by British soldiers in the Falklands/Malvinas who should have been treated as legitimate POW's-the laws of war and the Geneva Conventions exist, but in spite of having journalists 'embedded' with the troops in order to 'write' stories, modern technology now enables us to see things best not seen at all.

But Prospero's subtle point is made -we are not so much sickened or outraged by it, as much as embarrassed -for the soldiers. We will eventually know the names of those 4 guys, but will we ever know the names of their victims? Proof that wars rarely achieve what they set out to achieve, and this nonsense in Afghanistan has achieved nothing at all, unless you are in the top echelons of the political and military elites in Afghanistan and Pakistan, who have become very very rich indeed -if they were in skirts we might think we were watching Mother Courage....

The scandal that isn’t on the video:

http://www.salon.com/2012/01/13/the_...deo/singleton/

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Originally Posted by Stavros

Thucydides History of the Peloponessian War, written sometime before the author's death in 400BCE, contains graphic account of atrocities committed by troops from Athens and Sparta, Michael Walzer in Just and Unjust Wars provided a modern assessment of the rules of war as part of his critique of war as a political strategy/gamble, replete with atrocities from Greece to Vietnam -sadly there is nothing new in the humiliation process that takes places, whoever is doing it.

It is important for us to condemn all of it, be it the Marines dragged through the streets of Mogadishu -or in Vietnam (see Joris Ivens film April in Vietnam in the Year of the Cat if you must, even if the pilot was alive at the time)- or hung up on a bridge in Fallujah, or the soldiers who used to cut off the ears of Japanese soldiers to send home to mom; or the conscripted, cold, hungry, badly-led Argentinians summarily executed by British soldiers in the Falklands/Malvinas who should have been treated as legitimate POW's-the laws of war and the Geneva Conventions exist, but in spite of having journalists 'embedded' with the troops in order to 'write' stories, modern technology now enables us to see things best not seen at all.

But Prospero's subtle point is made -we are not so much sickened or outraged by it, as much as embarrassed -for the soldiers. We will eventually know the names of those 4 guys, but will we ever know the names of their victims? Proof that wars rarely achieve what they set out to achieve, and this nonsense in Afghanistan has achieved nothing at all, unless you are in the top echelons of the political and military elites in Afghanistan and Pakistan, who have become very very rich indeed -if they were in skirts we might think we were watching Mother Courage....

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Again...speak for yourself...I'm not embarrassed, and I'm an American and a vet. Victims? I can tell you that when someone is trying to kill you, and you happen to be fortunate enough to off him first, you don't consider him a victim. A victim is a grandmother walking a poodle and struck by a drunk driver. Let me do a quick look back and see if I can find a thread where you condemned the events in Black Hawk down. You do so here to appear to be even handed, but I don't recall near the condemnation back then......not because Americans wouldn't be outraged, just that Americans weren't paying attention, but that's another matter. In America we tend to romanticize war as though it was a game with rules because most have never experienced it's horror first hand. We think nothing of seeing a Sioux warrior scalp a white eye, but to most that seems so far removed and almost fantasy...I don't condone what these marines did, but I know of far worse incidents....
Here's an irony for all you holier than thou sorts. All major news organizations refused to show workers jumping from world trade center inferno to their death on the street below because or a variety of reasons....too gruesome I suppose, yet I've seen this marine vid all over the TV and print media. Curious

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fred41

I suppose the term civilized can be considered relative...

However, here's what I think:

What these young Marines did was in poor taste...and I wish to God someone, for once, would be smart enough not to record the act and then submit it on the internet....
BUT they didn't chop anyone's head off...they didn't burn anyone to death and hang em from a bridge...they didn't mutilate or rape any little girls cause they thought they committed some type of adultery...need I go on?!

...all they did was urinate on some bodies that are never going to feel it. Someone that would have blown them up or shot em in the head without a moment's thought. Someone who doesn't even consider the barbarity of their acts...ever.

So yeah, I still think we (and those young men) are more civilized...but you can think otherwise...from the safety of your home...same as me.

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Thing is we are looked upon as being better than those savages. We are the biggest world power so we are suppose to set an example. Just like when the soldier had the guy on the table with a bag on his head and dick by a string. That isn't the best look for us. Kill the fuckers and be on with it no need to piss on somebody or any other extracurricular activities.

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Originally Posted by onmyknees

Again...speak for yourself...I'm not embarrassed, and I'm an American and a vet. Victims? I can tell you that when someone is trying to kill you, and you happen to be fortunate enough to off him first, you don't consider him a victim. A victim is a grandmother walking a poodle and struck by a drunk driver. Let me do a quick look back and see if I can find a thread where you condemned the events in Black Hawk down. You do so here to appear to be even handed, but I don't recall near the condemnation back then......not because Americans wouldn't be outraged, just that Americans weren't paying attention, but that's another matter. In America we tend to romanticize war as though it was a game with rules because most have never experienced it's horror first hand. We think nothing of seeing a Sioux warrior scalp a white eye, but to most that seems so far removed and almost fantasy...I don't condone what these marines did, but I know of far worse incidents....
Here's an irony for all you holier than thou sorts. All major news organizations refused to show workers jumping from world trade center inferno to their death on the street below because or a variety of reasons....too gruesome I suppose, yet I've seen this marine vid all over the TV and print media. Curious

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left wing bias ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stavros

Thucydides History of the Peloponessian War, written sometime before the author's death in 400BCE, contains graphic account of atrocities committed by troops from Athens and Sparta, Michael Walzer in Just and Unjust Wars provided a modern assessment of the rules of war as part of his critique of war as a political strategy/gamble, replete with atrocities from Greece to Vietnam -sadly there is nothing new in the humiliation process that takes places, whoever is doing it.

It is important for us to condemn all of it, be it the Marines dragged through the streets of Mogadishu -or in Vietnam (see Joris Ivens film April in Vietnam in the Year of the Cat if you must, even if the pilot was alive at the time)- or hung up on a bridge in Fallujah, or the soldiers who used to cut off the ears of Japanese soldiers to send home to mom; or the conscripted, cold, hungry, badly-led Argentinians summarily executed by British soldiers in the Falklands/Malvinas who should have been treated as legitimate POW's-the laws of war and the Geneva Conventions exist, but in spite of having journalists 'embedded' with the troops in order to 'write' stories, modern technology now enables us to see things best not seen at all.

But Prospero's subtle point is made -we are not so much sickened or outraged by it, as much as embarrassed -for the soldiers. We will eventually know the names of those 4 guys, but will we ever know the names of their victims? Proof that wars rarely achieve what they set out to achieve, and this nonsense in Afghanistan has achieved nothing at all, unless you are in the top echelons of the political and military elites in Afghanistan and Pakistan, who have become very very rich indeed -if they were in skirts we might think we were watching Mother Courage....

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I disagree with that they aren't victims unless they are civilians.