Homophobia and hypocrisy on hungangels

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sissyrachel

The LGBT community has always been a sprawling mass of disparate identities and viewpoints and yet, still, I have always found it slightly surprising that the different branches of this so-called “community” have been so willing to adopt a confrontational stand point towards others. In particular, this applies to transgender people who are often viewed by homosexuals with suspicion and antagonism and react similarly in response. While it is important to recognise that homosexuality and transgender are not one and the same thing, that a transwoman is not at all the same as a gay man, these two minority groups, often viewed as unnatural by mainstream society, have a lot to gain from adopting a conciliatory standpoint towards each other. Notably, there is an unnecessary level of antagonism between the men who are attracted to transwomen and men who are attracted to other men.

---

Great post!!! . I really would like to see this board to enforce more the tolerance that it should exist for any determined group of people . As it is the LGBT community it has the lack of tolerance between each category in definitions. It's state as Lesbian Gay Bisexual and Transgender as we are a part of it's whole but with the huge gap that identify us as a Trangender Community , please do not confuse ourselves.... There is a big gap between this the LGB community and the Transgender Community: SEXUAL ORIENTATION AND GENDER IDENTITY.

A Homosexual Man/Woman it is a person who SEXUAL ORIENTATION is the sexual and emotional attraction to members of the same sex.

In the other Hand GENDER IDENTITY it is a person's sense of gender as a Man or Woman and the society's perception of this individual.Self concept or self identity is the process in which a person understands how others perceive them . A TRANSGENDER person refers to the placing of a person into one of the gender categories male or female. When someone do feel comfortable and belong to the gender it was born and decide to undergoing to the transition to change it physique to match the gender feels belong to .

On my experience in the LGB & T Community it exist the stigma between it. We can mention the TRANSPHOBIA as a the discrimination and intolerance towards a Trangender individual, I said it before, personally I lived and feel it before, and it more visible in the gay community. Don't get me wrong my bests friends are gays but... We Transgender for the most part take a role in LGBT community as a entertainers and that is way of we be part and blend I might be wrong but like I said in my personal experience.
And as SissyRachel stated " Notably, there is an unnecessary level of antagonism between the men who are attracted to transwomen and men who are attracted to other men".

As a Trangender woman I feel that we are the bridge between the Straight community and the so call LGBT community, if we put aside all the sexual implications that it give us as a guy fantasies or perfect woman etc. Being the link between this two groups it give us a responsibility to learn to carry that role in society and certainly to live as the woman we struggle to be, physically and in mindset. We are not only here in this board only for the sexual purposes but to educate to each member and of course to be reciprocated as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sissyrachel

I guess that all I’m asking is that people adopt a more tolerant stance towards other people’s desires and fetishes. A straight man is no better than a gay man, a transwoman no worse than one. If you’re not into something, there’s no reason aggressively to strike out at those who are. Everybody is different, what harm can there be in saying love and let love?

---

I strongly believed that everyone is entitled to give a response in each topic, and we may do not like when someone respond but we all have differences of opinions and how do we input them. I guess we here to debate in and not all it is as sweet as we want to but yes may be we sometimes cross certain boundaries and hurt other people feelings but that's the bitterness of the freedom we have to speak of our mind and there is when things get more interesting for all of us. After all if someone try to hurt my feelings if it is me that decide if to fire back using the same language, to answer with more intellect or with my silence.

Hope that this board entice other members to bring up their point of view with intelligence and sense.

*** Hugs ** Cinthya...


:wink:

To long to read i'll wait for the other replies.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sissyrachel

...

I guess that all I’m asking is that people adopt a more tolerant stance towards other people’s desires and fetishes. A straight man is no better than a gay man, a transwoman no worse than one. If you’re not into something, there’s no reason aggressively to strike out at those who are. Everybody is different, what harm can there be in saying love and let love?

---

I say Great post also. I whole heartedly agree. Part of the issue is the human tendency to confuse the issue of our personal preferences, into thinking something is actually better. What we each like defines us, but it does not mean it is really better.

Ts women have a big part in setting the atmosphere here. I think most probably go through an indentity phase of wondering if they are gay. Then they go to identify as trans women. I think that some then start to define themselves as better than gay men, not just different. Then as they develop it is natural to think of ‘straight’ men as confirming of their female identity. So again you have the process of them defining so called straight men as better than those that are attracted to them as they are.

All of humanity would be helped if more people can understand that one is category of persons is better than another.

I wholeheartedly agree with Rachel's assessment. There is a great deal of divisiveness on this board, especially between men who deem themselves 'straight' while others they label 'gay'.

There's always been a double standard in this regard. A lot of guys on this board lust after t-girls and tell themselves "Ok, as long as I avoid <insert particular sex act here>, with a t-girl, then I'm still straight". These same men readily apply the epithet 'gay' to any guy who engages in those sex acts with t-girls that they find to be 'gay'. What they never understand is this: a sexual act is neither gay nor straight, it just is...they don't define gay or straight. The only thing that determines if one is gay or straight is the preference of partners, i.e., if you prefer to have sex ONLY with members of the same sex, then you'd be gay...if you prefer to have sex ONLY with members of the opposite sex, you'd be a heterosexual...and if you prefer both....

...then it doubles your chances for a date on Friday night :D

I say Great post also. I whole heartedly agree. Part of the issue is the human tendency to confuse the issue of our personal preferences, into thinking something is actually better. What we each like defines us, but it does not mean it is really better.

Ts women have a big part in setting the atmosphere here. I think most probably go through an indentity phase of wondering if they are gay. Then they go to identify as trans women. I think that some then start to define themselves as better than gay men, not just different. Then as they develop it is natural to think of ‘straight’ men as confirming of their female identity. So again you have the process of them defining so called straight men as better than those that are attracted to them as they are.

All of humanity would be helped if more people can understand that one is category of persons is better than another.[/quote]
:claps :claps :claps.... Well said!

I also agree wholeheartedly with the original post. Live and let live. Respect others.

Unfortunately, though, human nature is very slow to change. You can lecture at people, but hardly anyone will change their attitude. About the only thing you can accomplish is that maybe some more reasonable people will have the courage to speak up, and some of the shriller ones will get bored and go away. But this is not likely. Anyway, it's good to see some people who agree with me on this subject.

I'm quite impressed that this post has got the number of responses it has, and many of them are quite intelligent and considered. I know that saying things like this can't change the world, but we've got to start somewhere. Maybe just a few people here could be just a bit more considerate or tolerant and that would be a good step.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by altarica

Let me pose myself as a case in point.
Both my parents are slightly to the right of Ghenghis Khan and bigoted in the extreme. This doesn't just apply politically, but extends itself to race, religion and even other nationalities. My brother is less bigoted than them but still a bigot.
Me? Well I am lucky in that I have led an interesting life, met and worked with people of all sexualities and religions, races and nationalities and have kept an open and receptive mind. I would describe myself as...Well just me, I like GGs TVs TSs cute pretty boys and other things too and am comfortable with my sexuality.
I have to keep it hidden though due to to the derision I would suffer at work and fear of losing my family.

---

Yes, it can be difficult in a world where plenty of people can display quite narrow minded prejudice to be upfront about your feelings or desires. Equally, the least we can do is not to join in with other people's bigotry for fear of being left out. It's good that you're comfortable with your sexuality, that in itself is a very positive thing compared to some, even if you have to keep aspects of it to yourself.

Although obviously in public there are clearly occassions that demand us not to be upfront about her sexuality for fear of reprisals of various kinds, surely this is entirely unnecessary in the anonymity of an internet forum. Are people really so afraid of being thought gay by a group of total strangers that they will put down anyone who is or even seems a little bit gay themselves?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trish

It strikes me that rachel is definitely not moralizing; just asking for a little more tolerance. The moralizing is being done by those who attempt to assert their own moral superiority, claiming for example they are somehow better than gays. Intolerance is the hallmark of a narrow mind and a constipated morality.

---

Thanks Trish. I'm aware that my post could come across as a bit of a rant. I guess I was trying to get something off my chest as much as anything. As you say, I'm not trying to be moralizing just hoping people can realise that they're way of life isn't necessarily morally superior to others.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by justatransgirl

LOL - "I still have sexual thoughts about men."

The truth comes out at last... Sissyrachael is really Ted Haggard in disguise.

Giggles,
TS Jamie

---

As I'm British I don't have a clue who that is, but, having looked him up, I think that is exactly a great example of the kind of guy who would be much happier if he could be more accepting of others and, especially, himself. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by yodajazz

Ts women have a big part in setting the atmosphere here. I think most probably go through an indentity phase of wondering if they are gay. Then they go to identify as trans women. I think that some then start to define themselves as better than gay men, not just different. Then as they develop it is natural to think of ‘straight’ men as confirming of their female identity. So again you have the process of them defining so called straight men as better than those that are attracted to them as they are.

---

I agree that, perhaps for the reasons you state, some of the girls do behave in such a way as to encourage homophobic attitudes (especially as their admirers are very quick to jump in and agree with whatever they say). However, I feel this is not the main problem, what is far more common is the insulting and antagonistic attitudes between male posters, unprompted by anything the girls have said. I think this stems from a wider problem than can be attributed to the behaviour of the women here. Furthermore, if you feel the ts women have a big hand in setting the atmosphere for the guys, the reverse is also true. If the men treated the women with more respect then it would foster more respect being given in reverse. If the men weren't worried so much that transwomen are still partly men and therefore liking them is gay, they wouldn't resort to slinging insults about a transwoman's manliness any time she shot them down.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GinX

There's always been a double standard in this regard. A lot of guys on this board lust after t-girls and tell themselves "Ok, as long as I avoid <insert particular sex act here>, with a t-girl, then I'm still straight". These same men readily apply the epithet 'gay' to any guy who engages in those sex acts with t-girls that they find to be 'gay'. What they never understand is this: a sexual act is neither gay nor straight, it just is...they don't define gay or straight. The only thing that determines if one is gay or straight is the preference of partners, i.e., if you prefer to have sex ONLY with members of the same sex, then you'd be gay...if you prefer to have sex ONLY with members of the opposite sex, you'd be a heterosexual...and if you prefer both....

...then it doubles your chances for a date on Friday night

---

Yeah, this is pretty ridiculous, but my main problem isn't so much with what people might label "straight" or "gay", but with the assumption that if people do the "gay" thing this makes them somehow worse or more disgusting.

And, yes, if you're open minded about who you like, your chances of getting laid are always going to be better. :wink:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MrF

Unfortunately, though, human nature is very slow to change. You can lecture at people, but hardly anyone will change their attitude. About the only thing you can accomplish is that maybe some more reasonable people will have the courage to speak up, and some of the shriller ones will get bored and go away. But this is not likely. Anyway, it's good to see some people who agree with me on this subject.

---

Sometimes I'd settle for just that. Just reading the positive posts in this thread makes me think better about the whole thing. The world might not change completely but any people being that little bit more thoughtful makes it that little bit better.

One more thing. Another related thing that I find irritating sometimes is the notion that the more feminine a transwoman looks the more that makes her a woman and the more masculine she is then she shouldn't be considered a woman at all. This thread is the main example of that - http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=31125.

While obviously this is a board primarily dealing with pornography/the sex industry and there's nothing wrong with preferring to look at certain women above others (I want to see sexy pictures as much as the next guy or girl) or in complimenting those that do look particularly fine. However, when this level of judgement by looks crosses over into assuming someone is a better or worse person because of it then that's when the problem begins.

As far as I'm concerned, if someone wants to be seen as a guy or a girl has nothing to do with what their body looks like. It's no harder for you to refer to someone as "she" or "her" if they perceive themselves as a woman, no matter what they look like, yet too often people do end up resorting to insulting a girl by calling her a man.

I don't know where I'm going with this really, just that it's another situation where a little respect or consideration is no extra effort.

there will always be assholes who won't use the proper pronoun when referring to m2f transgenders. to this day media and police stories always refer to tgirls as men. the tragic murder of a Bronx working girl in 2006 comes to mind.
even when she was dead the people reporting the story failed to give her basic human respect.
the headline was something like "Male prostitute killed by outraged john" some shit like that

Don't worry about it.