Why not have a third gender? Neither Man nor Woman.

Let's dump the gender stuff, and concentrate on the person. Who is this person in front of me. Are they nice. We are so fuck uped as a society when we can't do this simple thing with out being influenced by the "NORM".

The NORM gives us war. And we seem to thrive on it as a race.

The NORM will probably be with us no matter what and so will heteronormativity. No matter what.

I personally think the way to improve things for all transsexual women is for as many people as feel comfortable doing so to be open about their transsexuality. I don't mean telling every person they meet they are TS but by.....not being so ashamed and self loathing of the fact they are TS. We need to be open with and accepting of ourselves first.

So many TS's themselves are caught in a frame of mind that places them forever in pursuit of "true" femalehood and feminity. Instead of realizing how arbitrary that is by definition they protest that wiring of their brain specificlly made them want a barbie doll (and not one of the female figures from GI Joe). :shrug: Whatever.

Saying blend in is fine for those who pass without flaw but the fact is no one does that. No one. Even if someone had hormones well before puberty their are always tells. Then there are people who try as they might will never ever pass even most of the time. Some people can delude themselves into thinking oh that person said "sure" not "sir"! :roll:

That's not really accepting yourself. When I see another male to female transsexual I truly do see a girl,...but I do see a girl who at the same time has this dual nature. More so than a GG would. (even they have masculine sides to themselves). That's what I am kind of talking about when I say accepting ourselves. Accepting that we do have some masculine traits, as well as our feminine ones. Everyone does, every human being that ever lived did. We are no different. If anything we are the ultimate expression of that fact...that in every man lies the potential to create a woman and vice versa. (think about it all daughters have fathers or at least sperm doners).

I just had to rant

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I just had to rant

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You give good rant. :D

Gender is such a subjective term, not just in this day and age, but for all time. I've been intimate with men, women, transgendered, transsexuals (M2F as well as F2M), and one intersexed individual (Yes, Virginia, there is such a thing as a 'hermaphrodite' to some level). Oddly, in the end, they all spoke to me, listened to me, joked with me, shared their life with me...

As any human creature might do.

Gender seemed to always take a backseat to all the other aspects.

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Originally Posted by ezed

Let's dump the gender stuff, and concentrate on the person. Who is this person in front of me. Are they nice. We are so fuck uped as a society when we can't do this simple thing with out being influenced by the "NORM".

The NORM gives us war. And we seem to thrive on it as a race.

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I wish there were more people like you.

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Originally Posted by peggygee

First, before all 'the guys' come on bombarding this thread, it's
primarily for the women as Brenda has stated. So if you don't
wear panties, have tits, and or are on HRT, you may not be able
to render an informed opinion.

Second, my response below is part of an edited post from a a thread
on another forum, a routers hop away.

You din't think I write a new thesis for all my responses did you, I'd
end up with carpal.

:roll:

Having said that:

What I did want to introduce to the conversation are my thoughts on the
binary aspects of gender:

Admiittedly I'm somewhat old school in some of my beliefs. I transitioned
in a much different era. As such, 'for me' I have adopted the contemporary
binary definitions of gender. I worked very hard hormonally, surgically, and
legally to assimilate into society's definition of female.

Yet I am not so rigid in my thoughts that I can't concede that there may
be those that identify as a third sex. I can fully understand that, and see
it as a perfectly valid gender choice.

However there are many transsexuals who are quite adamant in their desire
to be designated female. I don't want to say that those who have GRS
must be accorded that designation, and those that haven't should not be,
as I feel that is divisive and would not be equitable.

While the debate on when a transwoman should be deemed female is an
ongoing one: Is it after she has begun her transition, or had an
orchiechtomy, or must she have had the total gender reassignment surgery.
These are questions that plague us within in the transcommunity and in
society at large.

But for me:

I am a woman.

I am a Black woman.

I am a post operative transwoman.

But I am not now, never have been, nor ever will be a shemale, he-she,
shim, chick with a @%$@, etc, or a member of a third sex.
:smh __________________

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narrow mindedness will do nothing good here

the one thing I find wrong with what you say is tg women only .

you forget that there are both male to female snd female to male transgenders

What are your chances of finding female to male transgenders posting on this forum? I would say slim to none. It wouldn't have made sense for Peggy to address a segment of the transgender community that rarely or never leaves messages here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cyclops

Quote:

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Originally Posted by peggygee

First, before all 'the guys' come on bombarding this thread, it's
primarily for the women as Brenda has stated. So if you don't
wear panties, have tits, and or are on HRT, you may not be able
to render an informed opinion.

Second, my response below is part of an edited post from a a thread
on another forum, a routers hop away.

You din't think I write a new thesis for all my responses did you, I'd
end up with carpal.

:roll:

Having said that:

What I did want to introduce to the conversation are my thoughts on the
binary aspects of gender:

Admiittedly I'm somewhat old school in some of my beliefs. I transitioned
in a much different era. As such, 'for me' I have adopted the contemporary
binary definitions of gender. I worked very hard hormonally, surgically, and
legally to assimilate into society's definition of female.

Yet I am not so rigid in my thoughts that I can't concede that there may
be those that identify as a third sex. I can fully understand that, and see
it as a perfectly valid gender choice.

However there are many transsexuals who are quite adamant in their desire
to be designated female. I don't want to say that those who have GRS
must be accorded that designation, and those that haven't should not be,
as I feel that is divisive and would not be equitable.

While the debate on when a transwoman should be deemed female is an
ongoing one: Is it after she has begun her transition, or had an
orchiechtomy, or must she have had the total gender reassignment surgery.
These are questions that plague us within in the transcommunity and in
society at large.

But for me:

I am a woman.

I am a Black woman.

I am a post operative transwoman.

But I am not now, never have been, nor ever will be a shemale, he-she,
shim, chick with a @%$@, etc, or a member of a third sex.
:smh __________________

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narrow mindedness will do nothing good here

the one thing I find wrong with what you say is tg women only .

you forget that there are both male to female snd female to male transgenders

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Its so funny you mentioned "Neither man nor woman" That is a book i am currently reading Amazing... Its a book about the hijras in india. Hijras are transsexuals who travel in groups all around india,,, have had the operation of their gentitals not for sexual matters but more as a sacrifice to a indian goddess "Bahuchara Mata" and they are belived to be blesssed by that goddesss with powers that heal and cleanse. Many people in india are fond belivers in the hijras,, and they are actually respected by some. Its utterly fasinating!!!

Genetic physical variations of gender have always existed from birth. I wonder why many of the first cultures of the world up to modern day only have two categories.
Is it because of religion or other culture?
Do they deny our existence?
Do they gain from that?
Are we only allowed in to the club if we squeeze into 1 of 2 boxes?

@Janira

Yeah exactly. The Hijra would one of the better examples of a society which has a third gender, places T and I people in that category and respects them as such.

I would like to note for you that Among the muslims of India and Pakistan they also have Hijra. They base their religious justifications on different grounds of course. I could go on and on about that. instead I will give this link about it and leave it at that.

The one caveat to that is that being post surgical is the key to all that respect. Which puts FtM's in a tough position if they cannot have pahlloplasti. Which really is not so different from here. (No surgery and the self appointed post-op matriarchs of the community will treat you like a part time crossdresser and make sure the law does the same.)

@Nadia

Most people fit the two categoires. Is the obvious reason. People also have a way of thinking that everyone should be like them...fit the norm or be treated badly. The same things that motivate racism, and religious hatred.

Short answer: Because people need someone to be an asshole to.

I recall watching something on the discovery channel about india having a third gender they were called eunicks or something like that but it was pretty negative,they were known to put curses on people if they didn't give them money right away.