Gia Darling needs to study some more...

Seanchai,

I would have to argue that "most" of the... comment that you made. Considering that there are probably a quarter billion people in both China and India without any formal education, and most of Africa is still in the stone ages education-wise, I don't think that is a true statement. Now if you would have said, some of the third world countries have superior education systems in place for a small percentage of their upper class population, I would agree. However, you can't really say that M.I.T. or Harvard have any rivals in the world for their specialty areas.

Can a kid in India run circles around an USA kid of the same age in math and foreign language skills? I would say a chunk of their population who have access to their upper caste education system.

I would never compare our education system to a third world country or say most of the third world countries are superior in this respect. You have to give the USA credit for innovation. The best video games, 3D graphics engines, 3D graphics chips/cards, processors, medical advances, etc all came out of the melting pot. TFAN has good points here.

Finally, I am not saying things like racism are completely solved in the US, but I saw a disturbing thing on Real Sports with Bryant Gumble where in Europe, a chunk of the population will make "monkey chants" and throw bananas on the soccer field when a black player has the ball. They showed a few different videos where the entire stadium was doing it. Meanwhile, the United States invented interracial porn.



Vicki

I don't know how old you are but I despair at the lack of education now compared to when I left school 20 yrs ago. It's easy to pick on the US which ranks something like 54 or less in education across the world but most Western nations have dropped massively. I don't think we need to revert to teaching Latin but we really need to look at increasing the use of our own language skills, learning how to do mathematics without a calculator, learning world history, knowing geography other then where we want to go on vacation and taking the sciences. I think this starts with parents showing interest in their kids - and taking it upon themselves to encourage.

I'm not sure if knowing Shakespeare or classic literature is really going to help anybody other than those wanting to follow a course in that but it might widen their horizons. At least they'd know where the word cunt came from!

seanchai

Seanchai has a point: Most of the people working today at fast food places are dumb as dirt when it comes to basic math. If their cash register is down, they are hosed. The computer and spellchecker is dumbing down society at large.

On that same note, I know a serious math genius who sucks at basic arithmatic (and admits it), but can do calculus like it was 1st grade cursive. It's a strange phenomenon.

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Originally Posted by seanchai

I don't know how old you are but I despair at the lack of education now compared to when I left school 20 yrs ago. It's easy to pick on the US which ranks something like 54 or less in education across the world but most Western nations have dropped massively. I don't think we need to revert to teaching Latin but we really need to look at increasing the use of our own language skills, learning how to do mathematics without a calculator, learning world history, knowing geography other then where we want to go on vacation and taking the sciences. I think this starts with parents showing interest in their kids - and taking it upon themselves to encourage.

I'm not sure if knowing Shakespeare or classic literature is really going to help anybody other than those wanting to follow a course in that but it might widen their horizons. At least they'd know where the word cunt came from!

seanchai

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Ok, just to answer your point about learning Shakespeare...
There are many plays in his body of work that are dated, uninspired and easily (and justifiably) overlooked.
Romeo and Juliet is not one of them.
It's a strong story and not only does watching great story structure in action help in virtually all levels of creativity, but to use your brain to understand the poetic scale also uses the left hemisphere.
Is it directly attributable to increasing your learning (i.e. akin to memorizing the periodic table for a chemist)?
No, but theoretically it makes you more creative.
There's a multitude of excellent reasons to read good literature.

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Originally Posted by Vicki Richter

Seanchai,

I would have to argue that "most" of the... comment that you made. Considering that there are probably a quarter billion people in both China and India without any formal education, and most of Africa is still in the stone ages education-wise, I don't think that is a true statement. Now if you would have said, some of the third world countries have superior education systems in place for a small percentage of their upper class population, I would agree. However, you can't really say that M.I.T. or Harvard have any rivals in the world for their specialty areas.

Can a kid in India run circles around an USA kid of the same age in math and foreign language skills? I would say a chunk of their population who have access to their upper caste education system.

I would never compare our education system to a third world country or say most of the third world countries are superior in this respect. You have to give the USA credit for innovation. The best video games, 3D graphics engines, 3D graphics chips/cards, processors, medical advances, etc all came out of the melting pot. TFAN has good points here.

Finally, I am not saying things like racism are completely solved in the US, but I saw a disturbing thing on Real Sports with Bryant Gumble where in Europe, a chunk of the population will make "monkey chants" and throw bananas on the soccer field when a black player has the ball. They showed a few different videos where the entire stadium was doing it. Meanwhile, the United States invented interracial porn.



Vicki

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I was being a little OTT when making the "most of" comment but the fact remains that for a country as rich as the US, the education system is woeful - or if not the system, the want for the people to learn. The comparison with third world countries isn't really too fair (Gia doesn't come from a third world country) but the US (as an example - but other Western countries also) have slipped massively. The US should be the most educated, smartest country in the world. It's no use pointing at Harvard and Yale (or Oxford and Cambridge), they should be smarter from the grass roots up.

I'd argue that most of the technical advances you mentioned don't originate with people who have came through the basic American school system but many would be foreigners who came to the US to study at post-grad level - or were educated abroad and came to the US with the entice of funding to do their research. Massive amounts of those industries you mentioned are also developed in Europe - not the US - where less political contraints allow them to have a more open policy.

Unfortunately, some parts of Europe do have a lot of racism and soccer brings out the worst of that yet we're still decades ahead on it than the US where a black kid still gets pulled behind a car for whistling at a white girl. It's a worldwide problem yet I see more racism in my travels across the US than every across Europe.
seanchai

There a couple of issues here. One, probably the most important, is that Americans have this stupid idea that being smart isn't kool. I've seen studies that show that grade scores fall precipitously beginning at the 3rd - 4th grades. We have a culture that teaches that the upward path is not through academia, but rather on the basketball court or the recording studio.

In parts of Asia, kids dream about coming to America and getting into MIT. American kids dream about going to a club and fucking Paris Hilton. I tell my kids and their friends that if they don't want to learn about science, or math, or history or anything, really...they might as well just learn to eat with chopsticks because that's what this country will be doing.

HH

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Originally Posted by HornieHubbieinCT

There a couple of issues here. One, probably the most important, is that Americans have this stupid idea that being smart isn't kool. I've seen studies that show that grade scores fall precipitously beginning at the 3rd - 4th grades. We have a culture that teaches that the upward path is not through academia, but rather on the basketball court or the recording studio.

In parts of Asia, kids dream about coming to America and getting into MIT. American kids dream about going to a club and fucking Paris Hilton. I tell my kids and their friends that if they don't want to learn about science, or math, or history or anything, really...they might as well just learn to eat with chopsticks because that's what this country will be doing.

HH

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Nothing wrong with eating with chopsticks - handy for picking up small items and eating healthy nutrious Asian food. Unfortuantely the Asians are forgetting how to use them as it's easier to eat McDonalds with your fingers.
seanchai

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Originally Posted by seanchai

I don't know how old you are but I despair at the lack of education now compared to when I left school 20 yrs ago. It's easy to pick on the US which ranks something like 54 or less in education across the world but most Western nations have dropped massively. I don't think we need to revert to teaching Latin but we really need to look at increasing the use of our own language skills, learning how to do mathematics without a calculator, learning world history, knowing geography other then where we want to go on vacation and taking the sciences. I think this starts with parents showing interest in their kids - and taking it upon themselves to encourage.

I'm not sure if knowing Shakespeare or classic literature is really going to help anybody other than those wanting to follow a course in that but it might widen their horizons. At least they'd know where the word cunt came from!

seanchai

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Do you know where the word F*** came from Sean? Kinda interesting...

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Originally Posted by ottorocket

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Originally Posted by seanchai

I don't know how old you are but I despair at the lack of education now compared to when I left school 20 yrs ago. It's easy to pick on the US which ranks something like 54 or less in education across the world but most Western nations have dropped massively. I don't think we need to revert to teaching Latin but we really need to look at increasing the use of our own language skills, learning how to do mathematics without a calculator, learning world history, knowing geography other then where we want to go on vacation and taking the sciences. I think this starts with parents showing interest in their kids - and taking it upon themselves to encourage.

I'm not sure if knowing Shakespeare or classic literature is really going to help anybody other than those wanting to follow a course in that but it might widen their horizons. At least they'd know where the word cunt came from!

seanchai

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Do you know where the word F*** came from Sean? Kinda interesting...

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There is more than one theory on this I think - there is one that is something like "For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge" (!?!) which is Irish in origin (and should then be Feck!) but I think that one is false. What is your theory?
seanchai

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Originally Posted by seanchai

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Originally Posted by ottorocket

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Originally Posted by seanchai

I don't know how old you are but I despair at the lack of education now compared to when I left school 20 yrs ago. It's easy to pick on the US which ranks something like 54 or less in education across the world but most Western nations have dropped massively. I don't think we need to revert to teaching Latin but we really need to look at increasing the use of our own language skills, learning how to do mathematics without a calculator, learning world history, knowing geography other then where we want to go on vacation and taking the sciences. I think this starts with parents showing interest in their kids - and taking it upon themselves to encourage.

I'm not sure if knowing Shakespeare or classic literature is really going to help anybody other than those wanting to follow a course in that but it might widen their horizons. At least they'd know where the word cunt came from!

seanchai

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Do you know where the word F*** came from Sean? Kinda interesting...

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There is more than one theory on this I think - there is one that is something like "For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge" (!?!) which is Irish in origin (and should then be Feck!) but I think that one is false. What is your theory?
seanchai

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What i "heard" and it may be just one of those rumors, is it stood for Fornication Under the Consent of the King. How exactly it the King would give consent, and to who, i'm not clear about...but I kinda like you're Van Halen theory too..lol