Thought for the Day

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Originally Posted by broncofan

Removing Ilhan Omar from the Foreign Affairs Committee is hateful bullshit. Without going into a postmortem about her previous comments, I just want to summarize my view which is that I don't think she is antisemitic. I'm not saying my view is the final word but I don't see it at all.

And while we don't have to live in a zero-sum world Republicans have shown complete tolerance for every kind of prejudice from Marjorie Taylor Greene and frankly many Republicans. Removing her is cherrypicked, xenophobic, Islamophobic demagoguery.

BTW, the antisemitism from Kanye West (he also made racist comments about slavery) was about as obvious and direct as it can get and numerous Republicans defended him because he's a MAGA supporter. It was only when he started saying Hitler is a great man that they realized he was a liability. Some might say he's only a musician, but he's extremely high profile and a ton of Republican pundits were actively supporting him while he was basically on an interview tour discussing the Jewish question. The hypocrisy couldn't be more stark. Also ask Marjorie Taylor Greene about her ties to Nazi Nick Fuentes.....

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First of all, I don't know much about Ilhan Omar, and wonder if she is good at her job, that is, representing the people in her District. It seems to me that too many of the Congressional Representatives I read about are good at becoming media personalities, but I don't know how good they are as Representatives, and this goes for Marjorie Taylor Greene as well as Omar.

Second, when I was a student of American politics and history, a long time ago now, I did a short study of Black American Politics, and my tutor pointed out that historically, Foreign Policy had been a concern for the Senate not the House, but that the increase in Black representation in the House and the co-ordinated campaign against Apartheid in South Africa had introduced Foreign Policy issues in the House where before they had not been prominent. Andrew Young was identified as a key player in this. Should the House be more concerned with Domestic, than Foreign Policy?

Third, Congresswoman Omar is no more clever or stupid than most of the others I read about. She has condemned the response of Iran's govt to the protests there, though I am not sure if she has specifically referred to the Hijab- a version of which she wears- as an emblem of women's oppression. She has condemned the State of Israel but in the same sentence HAMAS, thus being another faded and jaded exponent of American appeasement, which in consequence trashes the rights of Palestinians for the sake of a strategic alliance, in much the same way the USA has supported Saudi Arabia in spite of its lamentable record on Human Rights, with the current regime under MbS chopping off more heads a week than ISIS managed. Whatever!

Fourth, as with the pathetic apology of Kim Johnson MP in the House of Commons, I think we need to take a stern look at the current Israeli Govt and indeed, ask if it is Fascist, because to me it has Fascist tendencies, and even more important, these reach back to the Mandate period when Jewish Nationalists fighting the British, Avraham Stern in particular, were trained in Fascist Italy and admired both Mussolini and his ideology, as discussed in the Haaretz article linked below.

No, Apartheid is the wrong term to use. In South Africa, it didn't must mean 'Separate Development', but factored in the 'Bantustans', the 'independent' or 'Autonomous' states where the Africans removed from the Cape and Transvaal were expected to live -the last thing on Netanyahu's mind is any kind of Palestinian state.

The law passed under the last Netanyahu Govt is to my mind a Fascist law, because it collapses all identity in Israel into one explicitly Jewish category that obliges internal devotion, that condemns any external involvement in Israel not based on that category, and recruits all the resources of the State to protect that Group Identity which, being Jewish, rejects all others, contrary to the last paragraph of the Declaration of the State of Israel 1948, the closest Israel has ever come to a Constitution. As was argued here-

"at the core of the new law is a deep, existential debate that Israelis have grappled with almost since the country’s founding: Can Israel be both a “Jewish state” that protects and celebrates Jewish identity, and a liberal democracy that protects the rights of all minorities, including non-Jews?"
Israel’s controversial new “Jewish nation-state” law, explained - Vox

As I have argued elsewhere, Israel is defended and supported by States and Politicians that would never allow the extremists found in the current Govt representation in their own country, while denying that Palestinians have any rights, and ignoring the simple fact that Netanyahu rejected the 1993 Peace Treaty from the outset, preferring war to peace, confrontation to negotiation, but completely incapable of telling anyone what Israel intends to do with 2 million people on the West Bank, and another 2 million in the Gaza District who are not Jewish and don't want to be ruled by Israel.

On this basis, Ilhan Omar is a coward for not confronting the hypocrisy of the American political establishment, though one notes there are Americans who want a Fascist state of their own.

Also in the links below is a discussion of why Israel is so determined not to take sides in Russia's war against Ukraine -not because of the annexation problem, but because Israel is more concerned by the fate of Jews in Russia than freedom in the Ukraine.

Links
Haaretz article from 2019 on Israel's Fascist past
When Jews Praised Mussolini and Supported Nazis: Meet Israel's First Fascists - Israel News - Haaretz.com

Ilhan Omar and Iran
Ilhan Omar equates women protesting Islamic law in Iran with abortion fight in US | Fox News

Israel and the conflict between Russia and Ukraine
Here's why Israel, one of the toughest militaries, isn't arming Ukraine despite a global push to do so. It's got another fight in focus. (yahoo.com)

Kim Johnson's Apology in the House of Commons
Kim Johnson: Labour MP apologises for calling Israeli government 'fascist' - BBC News

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Originally Posted by Stavros

That is a horrible thing to see, I hope you are not too upset. It is the kind of thing that can stay with you for years.

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I'm okay, thanks for asking. Although it did remind me to keep my head on a swivel when crossing the street. Also, I find this eerie. This video was uploaded to YouTube three days after I made that post:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hl9p1wrak6Y

These guns are made for killin'
And that's just what they'll do
One of these days these guns
Are gonna kill each one of you...

The sick stunt of a sick party, or a warning of the future in store?

This is why some members of Congress have been seen wearing lapel pins resembling miniature AR-15 rifles (yahoo.com)

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Originally Posted by Stavros

These guns are made for killin'
And that's just what they'll do
One of these days these guns
Are gonna kill each one of you...

The sick stunt of a sick party, or a warning of the future in store?

This is why some members of Congress have been seen wearing lapel pins resembling miniature AR-15 rifles (yahoo.com)

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It is both,a despicable and disgusting stunt from a sick and atrocious party. And warning of a future in store.

"Former President Donald Trump escalated his attacks on Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis Tuesday, seizing on a story that his rival for the 2024 Republican presidential nomination partied with underage students when he worked as a teacher at a Georgia high school."
Trump amplifies posts claiming DeSantis was 'grooming high school girls' (yahoo.com)

Hmmm...is this the same Donald J. Trump who was best friends with Jeffrey Epstein? Can someone confirm that when Trump discovered Epstein's 'interest' in underage girls, he went straight to the cops to report on his buddy's illegal behaviour?

Just askin'.

President Abraham Lincoln said the following doing the American Civil War,that a house divided againist itself cannot stand. That quote perfect describes today's US Government,during last night's State Of The Union Address,all 213 Democratic House Members including Vice President Kamala Harris stood up and applaud President Joe Biden,while the 222 Republican House Members and the spineless coward Kevin McCarthy remained in their seats. And it showed the differences between both caucuses,the Democrats are working for their constituents and want to continue to protect democracy and support the President,while the Republicans use their political power to launch fraudulent investigations into Joe Biden,his family and administration,and colleagues across the aisle and kick people off committee assignments and continue to show loyalty to their leader the MAGA King Donald Trump. Which is going to comeback and cost them the control of the House Of Representatives next year.

I came across this long article on Hunter Biden and his 'laptop' -the laptop that doesn't exist, so really the 'hard drive' of which there are now multiple copies, some of them 'edited' by people with, shall we say, 'an agenda'. As the article states

"And for all the time they have spent scrutinizing his emails and his dick pics, Maxey and others have yet to find any incontrovertible evidence of criminality."
The Sordid Saga of Hunter Biden’s Laptop (nymag.com)

Can it be proven that Joe Biden benefited financially from his son's business deals in China and the Ukraine? I doubt it, but that is because of the demands of the law. Does the material exposed leave Hunter Biden with the image of a depressed man doing things with drugs and porn? Yes. Is that illegal? I don't think so.

For years, Trump couldn't get a licence to operate in China. Then he became President, and got his licence -how did that happen? And what about HIS sons, and their management of the 'Trump Organization' -which now doesn't exist, we are told. Double standards?

More pertinent, when is the contents of your hard drive legitimate public knowledge? If someone is a drug dealer, trading illegal porn, ie, breaking the law, then I guess the Courts have the right to take action -but the New York Post, or the Daily Mail?

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Originally Posted by Stavros

First of all, I don't know much about Ilhan Omar, and wonder if she is good at her job, that is, representing the people in her District. It seems to me that too many of the Congressional Representatives I read about are good at becoming media personalities, but I don't know how good they are as Representatives, and this goes for Marjorie Taylor Greene as well as Omar.

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Second, when I was a student of American politics and history, a long time ago now, I did a short study of Black American Politics, and my tutor pointed out that historically, Foreign Policy had been a concern for the Senate not the House, but that the increase in Black representation in the House and the co-ordinated campaign against Apartheid in South Africa had introduced Foreign Policy issues in the House where before they had not been prominent. Andrew Young was identified as a key player in this. Should the House be more concerned with Domestic, than Foreign Policy?
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Third, Congresswoman Omar is no more clever or stupid than most of the others I read about. She has condemned the response of Iran's govt to the protests there, though I am not sure if she has specifically referred to the Hijab- a version of which she wears- as an emblem of women's oppression. She has condemned the State of Israel but in the same sentence HAMAS, thus being another faded and jaded exponent of American appeasement, which in consequence trashes the rights of Palestinians for the sake of a strategic alliance, in much the same way the USA has supported Saudi Arabia in spite of its lamentable record on Human Rights, with the current regime under MbS chopping off more heads a week than ISIS managed. Whatever!
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On this basis, Ilhan Omar is a coward for not confronting the hypocrisy of the American political establishment, though one notes there are Americans who want a Fascist state of their own.

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Your post is a confusing jumble that I suspect only makes sense to you, but I wanted to comment on your superficial comments about Ilhan Omar, and the silly idea that the US House of Representatives focuses on domestic policy, and leaves foreign affairs to the Senate. A “tutor” told you this? Alrighty then. If that was “historically true” for example in the 18th century, I don’t see how that is relevant to a contemporary discussion.

Ilhan Omar is (from what I have read, as someone who is interested in her) considered to be excellent at providing services to her constituents. There is a population of Somalis in her district but they are not a majority. She is being reelected for a reason, she delivers for the people in her district. The comparison to Marjorie Taylor Greene is ridiculous, it doesn’t hold water in any context.

Secondly, the idea that HAMAS or the theocratic government of Iran is above criticism is laughable. And if there is anyone who has the standing to make a criticism of HAMAS or the Iranian regime, it is a Muslim member of Congress. I read your Fox News link, and it didn’t illuminate any of the points you seem to be trying to make. The leaders of Iran are theocrats. The people behind rolling back women’s reproductive rights in the US are also theocrats. The purpose of the Fox News article is to rile up the right wing base because they will be offended by any comparison between Iran and the US, even when the comparison fits, and I wonder why you would post that link and what kind of point you imagined it was making.

I have no idea what “Ilhan Omar is a coward for not confronting the hypocrisy of the American political establishment” means. That’s like a bunch of hyperbolic word salad.

When you admitted that you don’t know much about Omar, that should have been an indication that maybe you should not include her in your ramblings. Think about how over-qualified you would have to be, to come to the US as a refugee, a black Muslim woman (three huge strikes against her, in our country) and rise through the ranks to be elected to Congress.

Sorry if that was harsh but your post as a whole was incomprehensible.

I accept some of your critical remarks though I did suggest Ilhan Omar is good at her job -I just don't have any details. I think the main problem is that you see these issues from within the US and I see them as an external observer, albeit one with a background in the Middle East.

For this reason I find it difficult to comprehend why the US, having staked so much in the Middle East Peace Process and twice achieved historic peace treaties, in 1979 and 1993, appears to have abandoned the commitments it once made, giving Israel the freedom to both smash the peace treaty with the PLO to pieces, and to embark on policies, on the West Bank in particular that seem designed to provoke rather than lessen conflict. As I said, Netanyahu prefers war to peace, confrontation to negotiation, and with a weak Palestinian leadership has so far led Israel up a garden path, but not to any sane place or lasting solution.

Where are the Americans in the House or the Senate to condemn an Israel that has in effect, repudiated the Treaties the Americans helped negotiate and support? Is it really impossible to criticize a Fascist government because of its policies, without calling into question Israel's right to exist as a sovereign state? On that basis, Ilhan Omar is just as cowardly as the rest of her colleagues, she is terrified of taking sides, even though the US Govt since 1967 has done just that.

Russia is condemned for annexing Eastern Ukraine and attempting to annex the rest -where was the criticism in the US of Israel's annexation of the Golan Heights, or its de facto annexation of Palestinian territories? Are the two so different, setting aside the ludicrous rhetoric of Putin? One could also ask why it was that the US failed to take any action against Turkey when it invaded and occupied Northern Cyprus and why no serious effort has been made since then to evict them, and help negotiate a just solution to a divided country.

On the HAMAS question, when they won the election in Gaza in 2006 they offered talks with the Israeli Govt without any pre-conditions, which the Israeli Govt rejected, for the obvious reason that since Sharon and Netanyahu smashed it to pieces, the logic of the peace process was a trade off in land and mobility that neither of the two Nationalists could contemplate. But it means that Israel is where it was in 1967, occupying Palestinian territories that now contain 4 million people, with no idea how to develop this relationship. while endorsing the violent Settler Movement on the West Bank which further undermines peace in the area.

The US could put pressure on Israel by withdrawing the staggering sums of money it gets every year, by using the same sanctions it uses for other states such as Iran. And is Israel a 'strategic ally' of the US when it supports one dictatorship -Saudi Arabia- in its confrontation with another -Iran? I accept there has always been this problem of alliances States make which beg moral questions, but there is also the political fact that the US enables the survival of dictatorships like Saudi Arabia and in doing so fails to use its power to support any meaningful change in the region, though I accept it cannot do such things on its own. There is a lack of criticism in Congress, and thus no sense of direction, while the kind of politics and politicians that used to be impossible in the US are running the show in the region, though these days some US politicians also seem now to be keen on replacing their democracy with dictatorship.

As for Congress, I studied the US in the mid-1980s when I do think it was at least considered a convention that the Senate rather than the House concerned itself with Foreign Affairs.

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Originally Posted by Luke Warm

And if there is anyone who has the standing to make a criticism of HAMAS or the Iranian regime, it is a Muslim member of Congress. I read your Fox News link, and it didn’t illuminate any of the points you seem to be trying to make. The leaders of Iran are theocrats.

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It's funny. I agree with many parts of your post and disagree with the same parts of Stavros' post you pulled out. I didn't find his post to be incomprehensible but probably unfair to Omar, who has in no way been a "both sides" type person because of her criticism of Hamas. She has been a steadfast critic of the occupation and of Israeli human rights violations. She has been unfairly castigated as antisemitic because she talks about the impact of lobbying (specifically AIPAC) on foreign policy and in my view has shown an independent mindset on a lot of foreign policy issues.

This is not a nitpick but she made a mistake in not voting to recognize the Armenian genocide. She made a statement implying that she recognizes it took place but that she believed the resolution was intended to serve as a "cudgel" against Turkey. In my view, the recognition of the Armenian genocide is important enough that questions of motives should not have influenced her decision and it was a bad call on her part. I'm not saying questions of politics don't play into these kinds of resolutions but it's important for humanity to recognize when more than a million people are murdered systematically in an attempt to eradicate that population.

I think one isolated point from my previous post is that some people are straining to find antisemitism from Omar, some on the right who are racist and don't actually care about antisemitism, when there is an explosion of antisemitism on the right in the form of all sorts of braindead conspiracy theories. From great replacement, to theories about Jews creating covid, pushing vaccines, to Jewish people "creating" transgender people (which is at least as transphobic as it is antisemitic), to full on acceptance by Republicans of people basically wanting to discuss the Jewish question.

Again, I don't think antisemitism is a unique prejudice on the right or more prevalent than other forms of prejudice (as a American Jew I don't want to give the impression I think for instance that it's anywhere near as bad as racism towards Black people or transphobia, which are frequently deadly and always despicable). For some time I would tend to see less of it in right wing circles or at least so coded it would be hard to detect. In the last year or so right wing pundits have really accelerated anti-lgbt animus and many are promoting antisemitism and trying to make it mainstream.

As a separate and worthwhile subject, the occupation of the West Bank and siege of Gaza causes enormous pain and degradation to Palestinians. That the occupation has been ongoing for more than 55 years is a disgrace. I think Omar has probably done as much as any congressperson, except maybe Betty Mccollum and Rashida Tlaib to speak openly about this, without concern for U.S. alliances and foreign policy entanglements.