Re: "Stand your ground" situation in FL
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Donkey
Trayvon started committing a crime when he began physically assaulting Zimmerman. At that point, it does not matter if he was armed or not. The person being assaulted has the legal right to defend themselves, which includes the use of deadly force.
Again, you can't claim 'self defense' if you are the one who provoked the confrontation.
If I follow you in the middle of the night in my car, get out and chase after you on foot and then YOU smack me in the face, afterwards I don't have the justification to claim 'self defense' and shoot you dead through the heart.
Eliminate race, pretend Trayvon is a close loved one in your family, then ask yourself was your loved one's death justified or fair because a stranger decided to follow them home because they looked 'suspicious'??
Does that make sense?
At the time of the murder, Zimmerman outweighed this kid by FORTY POUNDS, despite being roughly 4 inches shorter than Trayvon.
This was murder by a paranoid vigilante, plain and simple.
Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
seanchai
Don't stand on the fucking "Constitution" as back up for gun ownership.
Why would it not be? The Constitution literally guarantees that right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
seanchai
Wasn't slavery and killing Indians part of your culture at one point (but you changed), wasn't their cannibalism in the USA (but you changed). Things CAN change and backing it up with a document that was created by different people in different times, is pathetic.
Except slavery was against our Constitution. Our Founding Fathers also provided Americans with a remedy if we felt like our Constitution no longer reflected the ideals and values of The People. There is a process to change it. Many agree that this framework is what has made America the greatest nation on earth. I happen to believe it is a key factor in American Exceptionalism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
seanchai
A massive amount of American's who own guns are actually fairly fucking stupid and they should never have has those rights.
I would be far more uncomfortable with the federal government deciding who our rights applied to and who they didn't, based on their interpretation of "stupid," than I am with a few stupid people having the opportunity to exercise Constitutional rights just like everyone else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
seanchai
As far as Treyvon Martin/Zimmerman - I'm fucking tired of hearing about it. The gun nuts just want Zimmerman to get off so their gun rights aren't violated and the racists just want the right to be able to kill another un-armed nigger without retribution, and the blacks "leaders" just want to look for an excuse to cause friction and line their own pockets.
A kid was killed needlessly. That's the only story.
No matter what happens in the Zimmerman case, the gun rights of law-abiding Americans aren't in jeopardy. And unarmed blacks (as a black man, I choose not to use the word "nigger," but respect your right to), whites, asians, hispanics, etc., need to understand that simply being unarmed does not give you the right to physically beat on someone. Sure, you can do it, but you may not live to tell your side of the story.
Re: "Stand your ground" situation in FL
Quote:
Originally Posted by
giovanni_hotel
Again, you can't claim 'self defense' if you are the one who provoked the confrontation.
Simply following someone (if that's even proven to be true) does not give the person being followed the right to physically assault the person following them.
I'm sure celebrities would love to have the lawful right to beat down those pesky paparazzi who constantly follow them, bump into them, scream at them, and otherwise generally harass them.
Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Donkey
Many agree that this framework is what has made America the greatest nation on earth. I happen to believe it is a key factor in American Exceptionalism.
Erm ... ok. You've lost any point or the little credibility you had right here.
Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Donkey
Except slavery was against our Constitution. Our Founding Fathers also provided Americans with a remedy if we felt like our Constitution no longer reflected the ideals and values of The People. There is a process to change it. Many agree that this framework is what has made America the greatest nation on earth. I happen to believe it is a key factor in American Exceptionalism.
I would be far more uncomfortable with the federal government deciding who our rights applied to and who they didn't, based on their interpretation of "stupid," than I am with a few stupid people having the opportunity to exercise Constitutional rights just like everyone else.
Actually, Slavery was originally not against our Constitution. It wasn't made Unconstitutional until after the passage of the 14th Amendment.
Now, don't you Europeans pat yourselves on the back too hard. When the US Constitution was ratified, your countries allowed slavery, too. At least in your colonies.
I do agree with you that establishing a process to Amend the Constitution is a wonderful thing. And that it's far better to have that process than to turn over our rights to the whim of whomever is the President at the time. In that case you are choosing to have a benevolent dictatorship. And while you may love the decisions of today's benevolent dictator, you may hate the decisions of the next one.
To put it another way, I prefer the Constitution to either Bush or Obama.
Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Queens Guy
Now, don't you Europeans pat yourselves on the back too hard. When the US Constitution was ratified, your countries allowed slavery, too. At least in your colonies.
Absolutely - we had slavery and a host of other abominations. My point being, just because something once was, doesn't mean it always has to be. Change can be good and a constitution can be amended. I'm sure slave owners thought it was their "right" to own slaves and tribes thought it their "right" to eat humans but they changed.
Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
seanchai
I've lived in the USA for 12 yrs and traveled through more states and cities than any American I know. Don't stand on the fucking "Constitution" as back up for gun ownership. Wasn't slavery and killing Indians part of your culture at one point (but you changed), wasn't there cannibalism in the USA (but you changed). Things CAN change and backing it up with a document that was created by different people in different times, is pathetic. A massive amount of American's who own guns are actually fairly fucking stupid and they should never have had those rights. You bring guns into your society and they will always fall into the wrong hands, or those "law-abiding" people decide that today, they've had enough, or their "law abiding" kids get a hold of the guns.
As far as Treyvon Martin/Zimmerman - I'm fucking tired of hearing about it. The gun nuts just want Zimmerman to get off so their gun rights aren't violated and the racists just want the right to be able to kill another un-armed nigger without retribution, and the blacks "leaders" just want to look for an excuse to cause friction and line their own pockets.
A kid was killed needlessly. That's the only story.
LOL so fuckin true.
Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
seanchai
wasn't there cannibalism in the USA (but you changed).
They may have taken that stuff out of our grade-school history books. When was their cannibalism in the USA? Not as a fetish or cult sort of thing, or the guy in Miami who got naked and ate the face of the homeless guy, but as a more mainstream part of culture?
Re: 17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Queens Guy
They may have taken that stuff out of our grade-school history books. When was their cannibalism in the USA? Not as a fetish or cult sort of thing, or the guy in Miami who got naked and ate the face of the homeless guy, but as a more mainstream part of culture?
Your 50th state.
Zimmerman Interview Tonight.
George Zimmerman and his lawyer, Mark O'Mara will be interviewed by Sean Hannity on Fox News Channel tonight at 9pm Eastern.
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/...173609523.html
