An outsider watching the US health care debate

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Originally Posted by duplicatt

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Originally Posted by Jericho

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Originally Posted by duplicatt

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Originally Posted by Jericho

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Originally Posted by duplicatt

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Originally Posted by Jericho

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Originally Posted by duplicatt

I'm just not in favor of trotting out false or misleading data to get there.

Ya mean like:

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Those countries rely on the US to do their research in pharmaceuticals.

? :?

That is neither false nor misleading.

No, of course it isn't.
Nowhere else in the world is doing cutting edge medical research. :roll:

Compare the percentage of research.

The stage is your...Please...Enlighten us.

http://content.healthaffairs.org/cgi...tract/25/2/452

Hmmm, bit different to your original statement, init!

If you really look at it the Democrats don't need any Republicans to pass health care. They could do it today if they wanted to. Only problem is that it would be just like 1994 in 2010 and the Dems wouldn't be in power in Congress. It is other Democrats that are keeping health care down not Republicans. It is just fear of a Republican rise that is keeping Democrats from passing health care. In other words, Democrats are still wimps. If we want to pass it they shouldn't worry about future elections and pass it.

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Originally Posted by jaycanuck

Baldo? Really? Best you could do? Chrome Dome? Yikes

You remind me of hondarobot. The same senseless passive-aggressive typing style, that leads to nowhere. Anyway I have to step away from the puter, and run some errands.
I'll catch you later, Chromie.

bye now

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Originally Posted by JerseyMike

If you really look at it the Democrats don't need any Republicans to pass health care. They could do it today if they wanted to. Only problem is that it would be just like 1994 in 2010 and the Dems wouldn't be in power in Congress. It is other Democrats that are keeping health care down not Republicans. It is just fear of a Republican rise that is keeping Democrats from passing health care. In other words, Democrats are still wimps. If we want to pass it they shouldn't worry about future elections and pass it.

A few remarks:
1) Obama is not a progressive. He’s willing to sacrifice a lot that progressives are not willing to sacrifice, in order to optimize political support for healthcare reform.
2) Obama was never about ramming things through unilaterally, as much a progressive democrats (like me) wish it would be the case. His strategy to almost every sort of problem is to sit down with all the interested parties, hear each other out and find a mutual course of action.
3) The bill cannot be passed by democrats alone without the support of the blue dogs, which are not yet on board.

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Originally Posted by jaycanuck

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Originally Posted by Tepres

Even after they won the recent elections, they're still angry, unhappy, fuckfaces.

Maybe because you religious nut jobs won't let the new government do their job. You guys had 8 years to fuck the world up. Now sit back and STFU.

The Democrats have a majority in the House and Senate. They have control of the Executive Branch. There is no real way to stop them from doing anything.

As for you telling people to STFU, how uncivil can you get? Here in America we have free speech.

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Originally Posted by Jericho

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Originally Posted by duplicatt

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Originally Posted by Jericho

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Originally Posted by duplicatt

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Originally Posted by Jericho

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Originally Posted by duplicatt

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Originally Posted by Jericho

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Originally Posted by duplicatt

I'm just not in favor of trotting out false or misleading data to get there.

Ya mean like:

Quote:

Those countries rely on the US to do their research in pharmaceuticals.

? :?

That is neither false nor misleading.

No, of course it isn't.
Nowhere else in the world is doing cutting edge medical research. :roll:

Compare the percentage of research.

The stage is your...Please...Enlighten us.

http://content.healthaffairs.org/cgi...tract/25/2/452

Hmmm, bit different to your original statement, init!

Only to the anal-retentive nit pickers of the world, Ersatz Einstein.

The world has long relied on American and British innovation in the field of medicine. Once the UK went to NHS, British innovation slacked off.

Do other countries DO research? Why, yes they do. But when new and expensive drugs cannot even be prescribed in many socialized medicine countries (like Sutent in the UK was, for example), there is no incentive to research those drugs in those countries.

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As for you telling people to STFU, how uncivil can you get? Here in America we have free speech.

Not so much. When people drown out others at townhall meetings chanting "Hear my voice," that's an obstruction of speech.

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Originally Posted by trish

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Originally Posted by JerseyMike

If you really look at it the Democrats don't need any Republicans to pass health care. They could do it today if they wanted to. Only problem is that it would be just like 1994 in 2010 and the Dems wouldn't be in power in Congress. It is other Democrats that are keeping health care down not Republicans. It is just fear of a Republican rise that is keeping Democrats from passing health care. In other words, Democrats are still wimps. If we want to pass it they shouldn't worry about future elections and pass it.

A few remarks:
1) Obama is not a progressive. He’s willing to sacrifice a lot that progressives are not willing to sacrifice, in order to optimize political support for healthcare reform.
2) Obama was never about ramming things through unilaterally, as much a progressive democrats (like me) wish it would be the case. His strategy to almost every sort of problem is to sit down with all the interested parties, hear each other out and find a mutual course of action.
3) The bill cannot be passed by democrats alone without the support of the blue dogs, which are not yet on board.

Obama is the most progressive national stature politician ever seen since I've been alive.

Do you mean to tell me that if Senator Harry Reid and Speaker Nancy Pelosi rammed through a bill that he liked he wouldn't sign it because there was no Republican support?

Last time I looked, the Blue Dogs were Democrats.

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Obama is the most progressive national stature politician ever seen since I've been alive.

That doesn’t make him progressive. If he were progressive he would be pushing single payer universal healthcare. If he were progressive, we probably would be sending more troops into Afghanistan. Have you seen Kucinich?

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Do you mean to tell me that if Senator Harry Reid and Speaker Nancy Pelosi rammed through a bill that he liked he wouldn't sign it because there was no Republican support?

Of course not, and I didn’t say that he would. But he did insist on attempting to have a bipartisan committee of legislators write the bill.

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Last time I looked, the Blue Dogs were Democrats.

Of course they’re democrats. So what? That doesn’t mean we can count on their vote on the healthcare bill. In our party not everyone follows in lockstep and repeats the talking points of the day. As you know, the blue dogs have traditionally rather conservative leanings for democrats.