Thought for the Day

The categories listed above by blackchubby are conceptually distinct but are often smokescreens for one another in practice. Do I think there's a difference between someone who is "vaccine hesitant" and someone who is an anti-vaxxer? Possibly. In practice I think most people who call themselves vaccine hesitant are anti-vaxxers. That is, they believe nonsense about the covid vaccine because they have been fooled by charlatans which I elaborate on below.

What about someone who just doesn't want to take the covid vaccine? Again, it's possible there is something unique about this vaccine but we are stuck with the fact that the clinical trials showed a very mild side effect profile and significant efficacy for all endpoints. Anti-vaxxers believe that vaccines can have side effects that show up years later and manifest in neurodevelopmental disorders like autism, but scientists have said there's no evidence of that. If someone believes that shots that have been given to tens of millions of people have latent side effects that will show up years later they have been misled. What do they think a shot that exposes them to one protein of the virus will cause that being exposed to the entire infectious version of the virus will not expose them to?

Finally, of course there is a distinction between opposing mandates and being an anti-vaxxer. Some people who oppose mandates are vaccinated. Do I think they have a legitimate point? No. Employers are typically able to set workplace safety standards and whether people are vaccinated against circulating diseases definitely has an impact on the workplace. But we will see what happens with the litigation on the subject. I definitely think any private employer should be able to set that condition on employment and while I think public employers should too, we'll see what the Supreme Court says.

Finally, yes I am aware of Lebron and Kyrie Irving and a bunch of other people who are probably not Republicans refusing the vaccine. It's not that I don't think there are any Democrats it's that the evidence I've seen is that three times as many Republicans as Democrats refuse the vaccine. And there is a huge difference between the GOP House Judiciary Committee spreading anti-vax propaganda and an athlete. The former makes it an institutional problem within the GOP.

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Originally Posted by broncofan

The categories listed above by blackchubby are conceptually distinct but are often smokescreens for one another in practice. Do I think there's a difference between someone who is "vaccine hesitant" and someone who is an anti-vaxxer? Possibly. In practice I think most people who call themselves vaccine hesitant are anti-vaxxers. That is, they believe nonsense about the covid vaccine because they have been fooled by charlatans which I elaborate on below.

What about someone who just doesn't want to take the covid vaccine? Again, it's possible there is something unique about this vaccine but we are stuck with the fact that the clinical trials showed a very mild side effect profile and significant efficacy for all endpoints. Anti-vaxxers believe that vaccines can have side effects that show up years later and manifest in neurodevelopmental disorders like autism, but scientists have said there's no evidence of that. If someone believes that shots that have been given to tens of millions of people have latent side effects that will show up years later they have been misled. What do they think a shot that exposes them to one protein of the virus will cause that being exposed to the entire infectious version of the virus will not expose them to?

Finally, of course there is a distinction between opposing mandates and being an anti-vaxxer. Some people who oppose mandates are vaccinated. Do I think they have a legitimate point? No. Employers are typically able to set workplace safety standards and whether people are vaccinated against circulating diseases definitely has an impact on the workplace. But we will see what happens with the litigation on the subject. I definitely think any private employer should be able to set that condition on employment and while I think public employers should too, we'll see what the Supreme Court says.

Finally, yes I am aware of Lebron and Kyrie Irving and a bunch of other people who are probably not Republicans refusing the vaccine. It's not that I don't think there are any Democrats it's that the evidence I've seen is that three times as many Republicans as Democrats refuse the vaccine. And there is a huge difference between the GOP House Judiciary Committee spreading anti-vax propaganda and an athlete. The former makes it an institutional problem within the GOP.

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You're an interesting guy, Bronco. I bet you and me could meet at a bar, talk man-talk over beers for a couple hours, and never know we totally disagree with each other about practically everything.

What you're failing to take into account regarding the predominance of Republicans refusing the vaccine mandate is that Republicans are WAY more independent than Democrats, financially and otherwise. The simple fact of being a Republican is basically agreeing that people should be self-sufficient, yourself included. Republicans are naturally inclined to resist mandates of any kind, smaller government is the core curriculum.

Private employers can do whatever they want, Bronco - they can mandate the vaccine for employees if they want to , there's nothing stopping them. So why don't they? Because it's bad for business. There's a core group of people in this country who are never going to get that vaccine. I hesitate to make a binding guess but I'm gonna say it's like 20%, who are NEVER going to get it no matter what threats are made. So if Biden's mandate isn't shot down by the courts - which, I believe it will be, there's no real question that it's unconstitutional, even Biden (absentmindedly) admitted that much - but if it isn't, employers all across the nation are going to lose a LOT of employees all at once.

This vaccine mandate is not a joke to some people. I know a guy, good friend of mine, retired and somewhat wealthy, who will definitely never get that vaccine. He probably would have if they'd SUGGESTED it instead of mandated it, he's not particularly against the vaccine. But he absolutely will not be government-mandated to do anything, ever. He's about to be a grandfather for the first time, any day now actually, she was due 12/28. His daughter, being a highly-educated zoomer, is an idiot of course. She's been very adamant that Rob would have to be vaccinated in order to see his grandson. And this is a big deal to Rob, he's only got the one daughter. But he's been equally adamant that he won't get it. It's been this huge back and forth thing, I even got involved for the length of a phone call, I've known his daughter since she was born. But he drew the line and I know Rob, he will never back down, no matter what the stakes are. His daughter knows him too. That's why her CHRISTMAS PRESENT to him was to tell him he only has to be tested to be around the grandson.

And I tell that story to let you know these people are out there and they aren't outliers. Rob is a very successful, intelligent, well-respected guy. We have an inside joke between us, there have been a couple times he's been hanging out with me at work, and someone has walked in and immediately assumed he was the boss and started talking to him instead of me. So I call him "Boss" sometimes, and he's got that air about him. But he is NOT going to get that vaccine. He's already given up traveling over the matter.

I'm a little more practical than Rob. I can be told what to do if there's an implied quid pro quo. But if I didn't have some traveling to do, Biden would be waiting a long, long time to see me vaccinated - much longer than he has left on this mortal plane. If I didn't have my own reason to get it, they would have to knock me unconscious and strap me to a gurney to make me take the thing, I am not even slightly interested in Joe Biden's opinion about what I should and shouldn't do for my own health. Or anyone else's opinion for that matter, I can read.

But I'd think a little harder about your approach, Bronco. If your real goal is to talk people into getting vaccinated, and not just bashing on people who disagree with you, you better lighten up. All the people who could be intimidated into getting this vaccine have already been intimidated. There's no one left but the real hardasses. If someone asks them nicely, they might listen, but these are not the kind of people who can be harassed into doing anything, and all the threats have already been played. One thing you absolutely can NOT do in the USA is mandate vaccines for everyone. You can tell them they can't go to restaurants, can't travel, can't go to a concert or a ballgame, but you can't tell them to stick a needle in their arm or else.

On the other hand, I'm really starting to question whether this is really a vaccine issue for a lot of people. They certainly aren't doing a goddamn thing that's going to convince anyone to get vaccinated, so I'm inclined toward believing this is all about dick size.

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Originally Posted by Nick Danger

I'll tell you what will be an interesting scenario, Bronco. What if Trump's social media platform takes off? All indications are it will, there are a lot of people who like the utility of Facebook and Twitter but not the politics - one might even say Trump stands to gain half the users of these sites if he can get up and running and offer a quality product. And then...he's President again. So now you've got a President of the United States who also happens to own a giant social media platform. That would be unprecedented to say the least.

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Hey Nick, is it the GETTR website? I'm already on it, a lot of us were worried about being removed from twitter because of our views LOL

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Originally Posted by peejaye

Hey Nick, is it the GETTR website? I'm already on it, a lot of us were worried about being removed from twitter because of our views LOL

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That's not Trump's, I think that's a Chinese site that's becoming a thing for conservatives because Joe Rogan joined it. His expressed reason for joining it is the same reason that's on every conservative's mind right now - how can we defeat toxic progressivism if Big Tech won't let us? Much as the fact of Google, Facebook, Twitter, and Reddit censoring virtually all conservative viewpoints OUGHT to be an antitrust matter for the government to address, it obviously won't be until the Republicans re-take Congress - which will be in almost exactly one year.

Trump's social media platform will be a whole new thing from what I've read. The last thing I'd heard about it was they had raised $1.1 billion and hired some developers. If the GETTR site gets a lot of conservative traffic, I'd guess that the Trump project will end up buying it, the same way the other Big Tech companies buy up all their competitors.

Edit: Also, if you have any Facebook stock, I'd sell it soon. Young people have already left Facebook. When all the conservative adults leave it, there won't be anyone left on there but middle-aged liberals, i.e. housewives and retards.

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Originally Posted by peejaye

Hey Nick, is it the GETTR website? I'm already on it, a lot of us were worried about being removed from twitter because of our views LOL

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https://nypost.com/2022/01/07/donald...residents-day/

Aaaaand the countdown begins. Looks like it's going to be called Truth Social and launch Feb. 21.

Stupid name IMHO. They need to change it to something less political and presumptuous, more generic.

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Originally Posted by Nick Danger

https://nypost.com/2022/01/07/donald...residents-day/

Aaaaand the countdown begins. Looks like it's going to be called Truth Social and launch Feb. 21.

Stupid name IMHO. They need to change it to something less political and presumptuous, more generic.

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Might be the first thing I've agreed with you on...:dead-1:

Different reasons though, Trump wouldn't know the truth if it bit him on his prodigious arse.

Attachment 1359440

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Originally Posted by Nick Danger

That's not Trump's, I think that's a Chinese site that's becoming a thing for conservatives because Joe Rogan joined it. His expressed reason for joining it is the same reason that's on every conservative's mind right now - how can we defeat toxic progressivism if Big Tech won't let us?

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I hate to interrupt your fantasies about making converts, but your wannabe friend here is definitely not a conservative. He's just a guy who loves to bear grudges.

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Originally Posted by peejaye

Hi Jeri. The BBC as two main objectives; No.1 is to STOP Brexit & No.2 is to destroy, as they call it "Jeremy Corbyns Labour Party", not The Labour Party.
Personally; I said good riddance to those right wing Liberals, we need rid of the rest now like Hilary Benn, Rachel Reeves etc and replace them with good honest human beings who care about social issues, not Big Business, Billionaires and Banks! The BBC as been using those cunts to beat "JC" with a stick since the day he took charge.

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Originally Posted by peejaye

This is probably my last post apparently. Just to clear it up; I am NOT a Trump fan, I just like irritating you Political right wing Liberals(UK) & Democrats(US) with your head so far up your own backsides.

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Originally Posted by broncofan

The categories listed above by blackchubby are conceptually distinct but are often smokescreens for one another in practice. Do I think there's a difference between someone who is "vaccine hesitant" and someone who is an anti-vaxxer? Possibly. In practice I think most people who call themselves vaccine hesitant are anti-vaxxers. That is, they believe nonsense about the covid vaccine because they have been fooled by charlatans which I elaborate on below.

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"Vaccine hesitant" seems a misnomer when people have already had the opportunity to be vaccinated for the best part of a year. Hesitancy implies that people are unsure and looking for more information. What exactly is the further information these people are looking for that would change their mind? If people are unable to state what would reasonably satisfy their concerns they are anti-vax, not hesitant or sceptical.

Another piece of evidence that tells you something odd has been happening in the US is that vaccination rates are now much lower than in other developed countries after starting out higher. We know that Americans are prolific consumers of prescription drugs, so the explanation cannot be that they are sceptical about Big Pharma. Vaccine resistance has clearly been manufactured rather than naturally occurring.

We'll never know, but a fascinating counterfactual is what would have happened had Trump been re-elected, given he was claiming credit for the vaccine program. Now even he gets booed for encouraging people to get vaccinated.

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Originally Posted by filghy2

I hate to interrupt your fantasies about making converts, but your wannabe friend here is definitely not a conservative. He's just a guy who loves to bear grudges.

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Peejaye's just finding his way toward the right side of The Force. Political opinions change with time and life experience. Peejaye might very well be smarter than you, Flighty, at least he's opened his mind to non-toxic ideas.

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Originally Posted by Nick Danger

Peejaye's just finding his way toward the right side of The Force. Political opinions change with time and life experience. Peejaye might very well be smarter than you, Flighty, at least he's opened his mind to non-toxic ideas.

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If you grow tired of debating with us perhaps you can have deep and meaningful discussions with him on the merits of fiscal conservatism. Good luck with that.