Do you feel it's wrong?

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Originally Posted by SarahG

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Originally Posted by olite71

Well if you say you are a girl, and you have a penis, and you fully expect that the listener's underdstanding of the definition of "girl" is someone with a penis, then you are right.

The question is, is that the listener's understanding of the word "girl?" If not, then you are not telling the truth.

Because if that's the truth--then the truth is whatever you believe it to be. But the world cannot function that way. There has to be some kind of objective consensus on definitions of things---maybe in the future the objective consensus will be that T-girls are "girls" per se. But at this time, I don't think we have that consensus.

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I don't see that as valid logic.... you are assuming the other person's definitions are accurate or comprehensive... which is not always the case.

Lying is intentionally saying something you yourself know to be false (or so has been my impression). Since I know I am a girl, I am not intentionally giving false information by saying that I am a girl.

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Ummm.."Logic?" you're using classic circular (and therfore fallacious) logic. If I believe it to be true--it is true. Hitler believed Jews to be inferior, was that true?

Peasants believed the earth to be flat in the 12th century, was that true?


Both the law, and logic adopt a reasonable objective consensus as the litums test of truth---otherwise we are in chaos.


If you know somebody defines girl as somebody having a uterus and fallopian tubes and all the other female parts, and NOT a penis, and you tell them you are a girl, then you are misleading that person, if not lying.

What is wrong with saying: "I'm a girl and I have a penis." No misleading, no deception, no nothing. If you can't say that, what's the point?

And furthermore Olite...............Guys aren't sitting there saying "is that a tranny" so I am not LYING. They are talking to me how they would talk to any girl, which they should reguardless. But you and and I bother know that doesn't happen. :wink: They ask about me I tell them the truth..They ask about my high school life I tell them the truth..They ask if I'd be interested in meeting..I reply sweetie I don't think I'm your type. They ask why..I tell them why.


I don't see the harm in any of that?

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Originally Posted by olite71

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Originally Posted by SarahG

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Originally Posted by olite71

Well if you say you are a girl, and you have a penis, and you fully expect that the listener's underdstanding of the definition of "girl" is someone with a penis, then you are right.

The question is, is that the listener's understanding of the word "girl?" If not, then you are not telling the truth.

Because if that's the truth--then the truth is whatever you believe it to be. But the world cannot function that way. There has to be some kind of objective consensus on definitions of things---maybe in the future the objective consensus will be that T-girls are "girls" per se. But at this time, I don't think we have that consensus.

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I don't see that as valid logic.... you are assuming the other person's definitions are accurate or comprehensive... which is not always the case.

Lying is intentionally saying something you yourself know to be false (or so has been my impression). Since I know I am a girl, I am not intentionally giving false information by saying that I am a girl.

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Ummm.."Logic?" you're using classic circular (and therfore fallacious) logic. If I believe it to be true--it is true. Hitler believed Jews to be inferior, was that true?

Peasants believed the earth to be flat in the 12th century, was that true?


Both the law, and logic adopt a reasonable objective consensus as the litums test of truth---otherwise we are in chaos.


If you know somebody defines girl as somebody having a uterus and fallopian tubes and all the other female parts, and NOT a penis, and you tell them you are a girl, then you are misleading that person, if not lying.

What is wrong with saying: "I'm a girl and I have a penis." No misleading, no deception, no nothing. If you can't say that, what's the point?

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I am replying to your last part..There is nothing wrong with it! It's just the guys you attract with it! And the drama that comes with it. We just want to lead a normal life and find a normal guy with out a CAUSE.

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What is wrong with saying: "I'm a girl and I have a penis." No misleading, no deception, no nothing. If you can't say that, what's the point?

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So are you saying tgirls should stop whenever they get miss'd/mam'd in public to say "oh wait, before you call me that make sure you know I have or had a dick..."?

[sarc]
I mean after all, if you don't correct them you are misleading them by allowing them to keep assuming/thinking you're a GG... right?[/sarc]

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Originally Posted by KellyShore

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Originally Posted by olite71

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Originally Posted by KellyShore

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Originally Posted by olite71

I voted "yes." And my reasoning is as follows:

1. Whenever you do not tell the truth about something, there is something "wrong," period. The question is, however, what is the DEGREE of wrong?

2. The degree depends somewhat on the result. And the result depends on the circumstances and how you feel and the other person feels at the time. If you see the person is merely flirting and is looking for adventure, well then maybe the deception won't lead to anything more than a sligtly more than harmless misunderstanding.

3. But if you realize that the person is seriously into the object of the deception, then you might be setting them up for a serious fall--the degree of wrong here is heigtened.

4. The problem with this degree thing, however, is that it requires you to be somewhat of a mind reader and in doing so you inevitably find yourself treading out on thin ice more often than you'd maybe want to.

5. As a consequence, the safest course is to avoid any degree of "wrong" at all times... But that ain't fun, is it?


6. Still---just how "wrong" it is depends on your own sensibilities and the context of the encounter. Ever notice how when a man with a girlfiend meets an attractive woman he does not mention his girlfirend---it's because he is indulging a fantasy at the expense of this newly met attractive creature. On the other hand, when he meets someone unattractive (to him) he talks about his girlfriend with immediate dispatch... Thus he uses deception when he wants to gratify a fantasy and maintain the possibility of sexual tension--but it is only on his terms.... Whenever two people meet and a deception is being maintained to create an attraction on only one of the person's terms at the expense of the other--there is something wrong about that---in my opinion.

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Listen here buster..I've been living as a girl for 12 long years..out in public..going to school..going to work....relationships..etc I think I have the damn right to say I am a girl..and not have to say HEY I USED TO BE A GUY to the world. It's not about that when we first start talking anyways it's a conversation..it's not like I'm marrying the guy or even going on a date with the guy. I am talking to him, but when he suggests for intimate things...I tell him whats up! Can we stop taking things out of CONTEXT please!

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If you are so certain about your "damned" right" would have never have started this thread. This thread suggests that you feel misgivings about it.

And I did not take anything out of context. If you think that all your dates out there who are male define a "girl" as someone with a penis--then you have every right to call yourself a girl and not think you are lying about it.

But do you really believe that? And you are right about what you're rights are--but rights are not in a vacuum--when your right to say something may mislead somebody your rights clash with their rights.

Does a man who calls you and defines girls as only "biological girls" have the right to be told that? That is the question.

It is interesting that you say "out of context" because the behavior you describe is taken "out of the context"....You are taking yourself, out of the context of the rights of those who are relying on the information you give them, instead saying: "I have the right to say I'm a girl," no matter what rights they have to rely on what you say.


You see everything changes when another person's rights and expectations are broght to bear. Sure in a vacuum you have the right to sing to the heavens that you are a girl---I have no disagreement with that whatsoever.

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Olite you really put too much into the internet sweety, I made the thread for people's opinion. I do what I do with out others making it for me. I just wanted to start a topic that may be interesting to others. And see if girls did the same.

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No worries---I love discussion. This is absolutely no effort for me...and I'm glad you started this topic--one of the best ones on here. In the end if all you got was light Katy Couric answers to all your topics you'd quickly get bored (or at least I hope you would).

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Originally Posted by SarahG

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What is wrong with saying: "I'm a girl and I have a penis." No misleading, no deception, no nothing. If you can't say that, what's the point?

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So are you saying tgirls should stop whenever they get miss'd/mam'd in public to say "oh wait, before you call me that make sure you know I have or had a dick..."?

[sarc]
I mean after all, if you don't correct them you are misleading them by allowing them to keep assuming/thinking you're a GG... right?[/sarc]

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No, you are stretching the example. In brief encounters like that, there is no need to say anything like that. If they call you "miss" or whatever they are just being polite.

This thread is about when you are getting involved with people--when people start asking questions and getting to know you on a deeper level, then how you represent yourself becomes much more important.

The level of interest someone takes in you should be matched by the level of sincerity that you show them--- a "passing encounter" warrants a "passing affirmation...." No harm done.

But as the encounter deepens if the affirmations are misleading...well than harm can be done.


Bottom line is this--if someone feels mislead, are THEY lying? Are their feelings not REALLY hurt? No. Consequently the goal is to avoid hurting peoples feelings by misleading them--and that is all up to your own wits and judgment--case by case as you navigate the social highways and byways.

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Originally Posted by olite71

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Originally Posted by SarahG

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What is wrong with saying: "I'm a girl and I have a penis." No misleading, no deception, no nothing. If you can't say that, what's the point?

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So are you saying tgirls should stop whenever they get miss'd/mam'd in public to say "oh wait, before you call me that make sure you know I have or had a dick..."?

[sarc]
I mean after all, if you don't correct them you are misleading them by allowing them to keep assuming/thinking you're a GG... right?[/sarc]

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No, you are stretching the example. In brief encounters like that, there is no need to say anything like that. If they call you "miss" or whatever they are just being polite.

This thread is about when you are getting involved with people--when people start asking questions and getting to know you on a deeper level, then how you represent yourself becomes much more important.

The level of interest someone takes in you should be matched by the level of sincerity that you show them--- a "passing encounter" warrants a "passing affirmation...." No harm done.

But as the encounter deepens if the affirmations are misleading...well than harm can be done.


Bottom line is this--if someone feels mislead, are THEY lying? Are their feelings not REALLY hurt? No. Consequently the goal is to avoid hurting peoples feelings by misleading them--and that is all up to your own wits and judgment--case by case as you navigate the social highways and byways.

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well in the same reguards you are stretching it too..she is right..so that means every person I talk to on a regular basis in public I need to inform them I am a transexual by what you are saying? Do you do that with every person you meet? I'm a man..I'm a man..surely you don't?

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No, you are stretching the example. In brief encounters like that, there is no need to say anything like that.

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So brief conversations on IM are somehow different?

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Originally Posted by olite71

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Originally Posted by KellyShore

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Originally Posted by olite71

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Originally Posted by KellyShore

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Originally Posted by olite71

I voted "yes." And my reasoning is as follows:

1. Whenever you do not tell the truth about something, there is something "wrong," period. The question is, however, what is the DEGREE of wrong?

2. The degree depends somewhat on the result. And the result depends on the circumstances and how you feel and the other person feels at the time. If you see the person is merely flirting and is looking for adventure, well then maybe the deception won't lead to anything more than a sligtly more than harmless misunderstanding.

3. But if you realize that the person is seriously into the object of the deception, then you might be setting them up for a serious fall--the degree of wrong here is heigtened.

4. The problem with this degree thing, however, is that it requires you to be somewhat of a mind reader and in doing so you inevitably find yourself treading out on thin ice more often than you'd maybe want to.

5. As a consequence, the safest course is to avoid any degree of "wrong" at all times... But that ain't fun, is it?


6. Still---just how "wrong" it is depends on your own sensibilities and the context of the encounter. Ever notice how when a man with a girlfiend meets an attractive woman he does not mention his girlfirend---it's because he is indulging a fantasy at the expense of this newly met attractive creature. On the other hand, when he meets someone unattractive (to him) he talks about his girlfriend with immediate dispatch... Thus he uses deception when he wants to gratify a fantasy and maintain the possibility of sexual tension--but it is only on his terms.... Whenever two people meet and a deception is being maintained to create an attraction on only one of the person's terms at the expense of the other--there is something wrong about that---in my opinion.

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Listen here buster..I've been living as a girl for 12 long years..out in public..going to school..going to work....relationships..etc I think I have the damn right to say I am a girl..and not have to say HEY I USED TO BE A GUY to the world. It's not about that when we first start talking anyways it's a conversation..it's not like I'm marrying the guy or even going on a date with the guy. I am talking to him, but when he suggests for intimate things...I tell him whats up! Can we stop taking things out of CONTEXT please!

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If you are so certain about your "damned" right" would have never have started this thread. This thread suggests that you feel misgivings about it.

And I did not take anything out of context. If you think that all your dates out there who are male define a "girl" as someone with a penis--then you have every right to call yourself a girl and not think you are lying about it.

But do you really believe that? And you are right about what you're rights are--but rights are not in a vacuum--when your right to say something may mislead somebody your rights clash with their rights.

Does a man who calls you and defines girls as only "biological girls" have the right to be told that? That is the question.

It is interesting that you say "out of context" because the behavior you describe is taken "out of the context"....You are taking yourself, out of the context of the rights of those who are relying on the information you give them, instead saying: "I have the right to say I'm a girl," no matter what rights they have to rely on what you say.


You see everything changes when another person's rights and expectations are broght to bear. Sure in a vacuum you have the right to sing to the heavens that you are a girl---I have no disagreement with that whatsoever.

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Olite you really put too much into the internet sweety, I made the thread for people's opinion. I do what I do with out others making it for me. I just wanted to start a topic that may be interesting to others. And see if girls did the same.

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No worries---I love discussion. This is absolutely no effort for me...and I'm glad you started this topic--one of the best ones on here. In the end if all you got was light Katy Couric answers to all your topics you'd quickly get bored (or at least I hope you would).

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well thank you

wow even lol I love these polls thats an awesome feature..oh yeah this is one of my dead end threads