Somali Pirates Are So Dumb. LOL & Double LOL

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Originally Posted by trish

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And just because two phenomena are linked statistically does not indicate that one causes the other. A basic maxim goes something like this: correlation does not imply causation. Your theory of economic deprivation fails to explain why rich kids and adults get involved in crime, and it does not explain why most poor people in Somalia are decent people who don't stick guns in innocents' backs and hold them hostage for money.

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My so called “theory of economic deprivation” isn’t intended to explain why the rich get involved with crime. There are do doubt many factors and causes of criminal behavior besides poverty. If X is offered as a causal factor of Y, it is not necessarily a valid criticism to maintain X doesn’t explain Z.

It is true that correlation alone doesn’t imply causation. But I also provided a mechanism of causation in the form of increased pressure to behave criminally in order to survive because of the poverty of legitimate means of survival. Can you provide an alternative explanation for the correlation?

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I'm not convinced your mechanism is valid. This is an area of pure conjecture and it does the broader population little good to try and rationalize why a some Somalis have chosen to commit piracy. I think some individuals in every society are willing to hurt or take advantage of others in order to benefit themselves, and this reality cuts across race, ethnicity and socioeconomic status. Perhaps poverty is more often associated with crime simply because poor people accused of crimes are less likely to get a good defense, and poor victims are less likely to see their victimizers prosecuted and taken off the streets.

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Originally Posted by trish

I do not know for a fact that the “most poor” Somali are not involved in some form of illegal behaviors in order to survive. It probably depends on what one means my “most poor”. Not having any legitimate opportunities to provide the necessities of survival seems like a possible definition. But of course if we take that as the definition of “most poor,” it becomes tautological that the most poor are indeed surviving by criminal means.

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I think it is pathetic that you impugn the vast majority of Somalis to support your unconvincing explanation.

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Originally Posted by BrendaQG

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Originally Posted by phobun

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Originally Posted by BrendaQG

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Originally Posted by phobun

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Originally Posted by BrendaQG

Yes it is about Islam.

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You're paranoid too. Just respond to the points I made in my last post.

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Originally Posted by BrendaQG

People get hijacked and robbed on the high seas all around the world yet only one place does it get reported, and made to look like the only place it happens.

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There is a serious pirate problem in the Malacca straits off the coast of Indonesia, but I'll leave it to you to say whether they are true Muslims.

Personally, I don't think the world's piracy problems are related to Islam.

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I did answer your points. Economic deprivation is no excuse, violence is no answer. For Somalia an Islamic government, which somali's would respect, could enforce laws against piracy. It happend before.

Piracy Off Somalia's Coast Increases

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NAIROBI, Kenya (AP) — Piracy off Somalia is on the rise because an Islamic group that had cracked down on the seafaring criminals was ousted from power, an official who tracks such cases off Africa's side of the Indian Ocean said Tuesday.

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It's as simple as that. Had we not ousted that particular Islamic Government, in our irrational fear that they might harbor terrorist, there would not have been a pirate attack on the ship, none of this would have happened. Directly because of the USA and our racially, and religiously motivated crusade against Islamic Government.

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Is your scientific logic so convincing too?
And how many leading academic centers in physics exist under sharia law? Seriously.

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Look in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

Feb 25, 1999,Pakistan creates national centre for physics Well before then... in the 1960's there was Nobel Laureate Abdus Salam. Then reaching way back there is the historical fact that in the Islamic world, before the renaissance philosophy, medicine, and even natural philosophy...what would become physics were being practised... all while under reasonably enforced sharia. (Not say.... the authoritarian thing the Saudi gov't. calls sharia, which is really an excuse to suppress it's populace.)


Oh and more on topic. Read about the current "Trasitional federal govt. of Somalia." Check who the UN recongnized "president's" pals are. He was commander of the government we ousted, which had the will and ability to stop the piracy. Now, why should they do either?

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Fail.

Most of Pakistan is not governed by sharia law, and certainly not the islamic law that the Islamic Courts Union of Somalia tried to impose. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're a transsexual who has posed in the past for shemale porn? I doubt that you would feel very comfortable living under the sort of government you advocate for Somalia. I suspect you're a hypocrite, as too many religious people are.

I agree there are some people in every society who are disposed to take advantage of others. But I also think that in truly impoverished populations many people not so disposed are pressured into a life a crime by the mechanism which I elucidated above. But these are questions best left to criminologists and statisticians.

Let’s take a look at the progress we’ve made. This evening’s conversation began with me being accused of justifying the pirates by suggesting there may be an explanation for their behavior. It seems that you now grant there is a distinction between justification and explanation. We both agree their criminal behavior is not justified. So our focus has shifted to explanation. We see the main causes of criminal behavior in Somalia differently. That’s something about which we can agree to disagree. Suppose I’m wrong and the scarcity of legitimate means of survival has nothing to do with excessive crime in Somalia. That only means I failed to find a proper explanation of their criminal behavior. Lacking an explanation of behavior is not a justification of that behavior either. So either way, whether I’m right or whether your right, we have a basic agreement on the moral issue.

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Originally Posted by trish

I agree there are some people in every society who are disposed to take advantage of others. But I also think that in truly impoverished populations many people not so disposed are pressured into a life a crime by the mechanism which I elucidated above. But these are questions best left to criminologists and statisticians.

Let’s take a look at the progress we’ve made. This evening’s conversation began with me being accused of justifying the pirates by suggesting there may be an explanation for their behavior. It seems that you now grant there is a distinction between justification and explanation. We both agree their criminal behavior is not justified. So our focus has shifted to explanation. We see the main causes of criminal behavior in Somalia differently. That’s something about which we can agree to disagree. Suppose I’m wrong and the scarcity of legitimate means of survival has nothing to do with excessive crime in Somalia. That only means I failed to find a proper explanation of their criminal behavior. Lacking an explanation of behavior is not a justification of that behavior either. So either way, whether I’m right or whether your right, we have a basic agreement on the moral issue.

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No, I still think that trying to explain the pirates' crimes on the basis of them being economic deprived victims is illegitimate and a form of excuse making. I do think that you have backed away somewhat from some of the very stupid things you wrote earlier in this thread. And I would rather agree to disagree with someone making such claims, than grant any common ground.

The sad fact that you continually conflate explanation with justification has more than a little to do with your continual misinterpretations of my prior posts which are consistent with everything I’ve said tonight. I’m sorry we couldn’t find common ground. It seems to me the main obstacle is as follows. You believe that the occurrence of criminal behavior can only be explained by moral disposition and that any [...] explanation amounts to a justification. So if I really proved that scarcity of legitimate means of survival was the cause of increased crime in Somalia, you would have to believe that crime was justified. To me that sounds silly. I’m willing to hold people responsible for their actions regardless of their causes. In any case, the only progress we made was to speak civilly to one another. Thank you for the exchange. I think I'm calling it a night.

[All edits are within square brackets]

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Originally Posted by phobun

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Originally Posted by BrendaQG

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Originally Posted by phobun

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Originally Posted by BrendaQG

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Originally Posted by phobun

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Originally Posted by BrendaQG

Yes it is about Islam.

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You're paranoid too. Just respond to the points I made in my last post.

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Originally Posted by BrendaQG

People get hijacked and robbed on the high seas all around the world yet only one place does it get reported, and made to look like the only place it happens.

---

There is a serious pirate problem in the Malacca straits off the coast of Indonesia, but I'll leave it to you to say whether they are true Muslims.

Personally, I don't think the world's piracy problems are related to Islam.

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I did answer your points. Economic deprivation is no excuse, violence is no answer. For Somalia an Islamic government, which somali's would respect, could enforce laws against piracy. It happend before.

Piracy Off Somalia's Coast Increases

Quote:

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NAIROBI, Kenya (AP) — Piracy off Somalia is on the rise because an Islamic group that had cracked down on the seafaring criminals was ousted from power, an official who tracks such cases off Africa's side of the Indian Ocean said Tuesday.

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It's as simple as that. Had we not ousted that particular Islamic Government, in our irrational fear that they might harbor terrorist, there would not have been a pirate attack on the ship, none of this would have happened. Directly because of the USA and our racially, and religiously motivated crusade against Islamic Government.

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Is your scientific logic so convincing too?
And how many leading academic centers in physics exist under sharia law? Seriously.

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Look in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

Feb 25, 1999,Pakistan creates national centre for physics Well before then... in the 1960's there was Nobel Laureate Abdus Salam. Then reaching way back there is the historical fact that in the Islamic world, before the renaissance philosophy, medicine, and even natural philosophy...what would become physics were being practised... all while under reasonably enforced sharia. (Not say.... the authoritarian thing the Saudi gov't. calls sharia, which is really an excuse to suppress it's populace.)


Oh and more on topic. Read about the current "Trasitional federal govt. of Somalia." Check who the UN recongnized "president's" pals are. He was commander of the government we ousted, which had the will and ability to stop the piracy. Now, why should they do either?

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Fail.

Most of Pakistan is not governed by sharia law, and certainly not the islamic law that the Islamic Courts Union of Somalia tried to impose. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're a transsexual who has posed in the past for shemale porn? I doubt that you would feel very comfortable living under the sort of government you advocate for Somalia. I suspect you're a hypocrite, as too many religious people are.

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Really, Pakistan does not have Sharia? This is what google gives for pakistan sharia law. ]As for the Sharia the ICU practiced... each Islamic court in the union was pretty independant, so it varied from liberal to conservative. However on the whole it was better than chaos and the law of the gun.

As for being transgender, even living this lifestyle, and being muslim being contradictory I have , over time, presented evidence that says otherwise about, Malyasia, Indonesia, Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Yemen, Oman, Egypt, Morrocco, and even Arabia during the time of Muhammad, my beloved prophet S.A.S. had a number of transgender persons called Mukhannathun around him. They were entertainers who sang erotic songs and danced for a living. If Islam condemned us, his first act as ruler of Medina would have been to have all of them executed. Such a deed would have been recorded by someone. Instead we have stories about him at one time berating them for their music, and protecting one from a mob that expected the prophet to execute the male for wearing female clothes.

(That did not stop people even back then from not liking and being prejudiced against transwomen, even as the founder and leader of their religion was not, nor does it stop people now. Persecution of transwomen over there, and right here are because of peoples emotions. No religion I have studied that bothers to mention us, condems us.)

And the winner is phobun, hands down.

phobun: 3
trish: 0... and she goes back to shemale cartoons
Brenda: -1

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Originally Posted by 2009AD

And the winner is phobun, hands down.

phobun: 3
trish: 0... and she goes back to shemale cartoons
Brenda: -1

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Basically that's a inverted scale for how well you understand subtle points of logic.

OK, This comes from a black, muslim, paranoid, republican shemale prostitute.

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Originally Posted by BrendaQG

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Originally Posted by 2009AD

And the winner is phobun, hands down.

phobun: 3
trish: 0... and she goes back to shemale cartoons
Brenda: -1

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Basically that's a inverted scale for how well you understand subtle points of logic.

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Holy crap, Brenda you are dumb.

trish, the reason I say you are arrogant and ignorant is because you have been trying to justify these criminal acts. You cannot just "explain" their behavior because of economic deprivation. Are all of these people in Somalia criminals? Like phobun says, what about all the rich people who commit crimes. They can't be justified, not greed either.

Brenda I already said to you that you can't compare these people to Robin Hood, but you try to anyway. I don't know what other" white Christian thieving bastards" that people glorify as good but are more like pirates, you obviously don't know any to name either. I already explained why these people are nothing at all like Robin hood.

Now please tell me, when has a white Christian ever shown you to be a thieving bastard? When has a white christian ever directly stole from you or anyone you know? Don't tell me about what you see on TV.

Brenda, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

trish if your really at all smart, realize that your wrong for trying to justify these acts. Just stop posting on here, it's over. People are going back and forth with no resolve but your wrong trish. Absolutely no one agrees with you, except for that moron Brenda who I'm sure you don't even agree with. Aside from maybe that Robin Hood was a pirate.